The overly devoted Apple customer is hurting Apple...

[Tinmania]

FYI, NFC chips can be embedded in microsd cards, SIM cards and batteries.

Samsung released a version of the S2 with NFC support but didn't offer any way of installing NFC features on the non-NFC version.

Samsung uses batteries with NFC chips that are used in conjunction with the NFC chip in the phone. There are cases that work similarly for the S3. I have never heard of a case or battery that adds the complete NFC package. Show me one for the S2.

As for microsd that is up to the maker of the card to support, not samsung. There aren't even very many of them at that.

You really shouldn't criticise Apple for holding back features, when at least we get several updates. Apple is probably the best by far at providing software updates for older devices. Updates are timely and guaranteed, too. With Android there's always a degree of uncertainty over which devices will get to update and when.

I can and will criticize Apple for it: they deserve to be criticized for it as far as maps and siri in the iPhone 4 are concerned.

I could probably do the same about AirPlay mirroring in OS X Lion after seeing AirPlayit in action on a machine Apple claims can't do it. But this is an iOS section.



Michael

 

[matttye]

Samsung uses batteries with NFC chips that are used in conjunction with the NFC chip in the phone. There are cases that work similarly for the S3. I have never heard of a case or battery that adds the complete NFC package. Show me one for the S2.

As for microsd that is up to the maker of the card to support, not samsung. There aren't even very many of them at that.



I can and will criticize Apple for it: they deserve to be criticized for it as far as maps and siri in the iPhone 4 are concerned.

I could probably do the same about AirPlay mirroring in OS X Lion after seeing AirPlayit in action on a machine Apple claims can't do it. But this is an iOS section.



Michael

http://m.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EB-L1G6LLZBXAR

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think NFC is usually always in the battery due to the fact that the battery is about as close to the back of the phone as you can get and NFCs transmission distance is very small (around 2CM). They wouldn't put the NFC chip right inside the phone with the battery in between it and the back.

Alls I'm saying is that you criticise Apple relentlessly when there are worse companies out there. Some companies don't upgrade their phones AT ALL. Others make their users wait ages after release.

I will admit that some of the reasons Apple held back features are questionable, but you have companies like htc where your new shiny flagship phone is outdated within three months.

Apple is not the villain here compared to others.

 

[TheHateMachine]

I'm so glad some people on this board are not running apple because it would be turned into a " Me too" company.

I think the wake that some are holding for apple is rather silly. Sure the stock has dropped but anyone with a brain knows that it's the market cap that counts.

I'm glad that samsung is making a phone like the galaxy note but don't speak for me or insult me and say I'm a fanboy just because I like ios the way it is.

Show me a practical need for 2GB of ram on an iphone and it's going to have to be something better than "just because"

Sometimes just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do it.

Care to explain how market cap is the only financial measure in regards to stocks that counts?

Also, as if the iPhone 5's larger screen wasn't a "Me too" feature and the iPad Mini was not a "Me too" product... If the rumors are true on the plastic cheapo iPhone for developing nations and areas, what will that be considered?

Stay Classy.

 

[jrswizzle]

http://m.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EB-L1G6LLZBXAR

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think NFC is usually always in the battery due to the fact that the battery is about as close to the back of the phone as you can get and NFCs transmission distance is very small (around 2CM). They wouldn't put the NFC chip right inside the phone with the battery in between it and the back.

Alls I'm saying is that you criticise Apple relentlessly when there are worse companies out there. Some companies don't upgrade their phones AT ALL. Others make their users wait ages after release.

I will admit that some of the reasons Apple held back features are questionable, but you have companies like htc where your new shiny flagship phone is outdated within three months.

Apple is not the villain here compared to others.

Apple isn't a villian period!

Oy! Look if you hate Apple or don't like the direction they are going (Tinmania) then don't buy! Simple as that. Bellyaching on a forum somewhere accomplishes absolutely nothing. Consumers vote with their wallets and until Apple either internally decides to change or feels pressure from dwindling sales to change, they won't.

Those of us who are fine with the current strategy shouldn't bother you. We are the ones who want to purchase Apple's phones and use them. If you don't, there are quite a few other (supposedly infinitely better) options out there and more are being added this year.

Android, WP8, iOS, BB10 etc all exist for the same purpose with (generally) the same end features - they all go about that purpose in different ways. That's the idea.....to have different approaches in the market so consumers can choose what they like best. One company alone doesn't offer all the choices - that would be a monopoly and there isn't a company anywhere who would take that power and cater to consumers....

So please - for the love of all that is holy and good, just relax, be content with whatever phone you choose and be excited when something new comes along. It's a much better way to enjoy the ride - trust me.

 

[TheHateMachine]

http://m.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EB-L1G6LLZBXAR

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think NFC is usually always in the battery due to the fact that the battery is about as close to the back of the phone as you can get and NFCs transmission distance is very small (around 2CM). They wouldn't put the NFC chip right inside the phone with the battery in between it and the back.

Apparently in the latest Note, the chip is stored in the battery cover.

----------

Apple isn't a villian period!

Oy! Look if you hate Apple or don't like the direction they are going (Tinmania) then don't buy! Simple as that. Bellyaching on a forum somewhere accomplishes absolutely nothing. Consumers vote with their wallets and until Apple either internally decides to change or feels pressure from dwindling sales to change, they won't.

I believe Tinmania has already implied in earlier posts that he is voting with his wallet. It seems he just wants to have a discussion about it on a forum.

 

[Tinmania]

http://m.samsung.com/us/mobile/cell-phones-accessories/EB-L1G6LLZBXAR

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think NFC is usually always in the battery due to the fact that the battery is about as close to the back of the phone as you can get and NFCs transmission distance is very small (around 2CM). They wouldn't put the NFC chip right inside the phone with the battery in between it and the back.

The NFC antenna is in the battery, not the NFC circuitry. Using a Samsung NFC battery in an S2 does not give it NFC capability.

Alls I'm saying is that you criticise Apple relentlessly when there are worse companies out there. Some companies don't upgrade their phones AT ALL. Others make their users wait ages after release.

I will admit that some of the reasons Apple held back features are questionable, but you have companies like htc where your new shiny flagship phone is outdated within three months.

Apple is not the villain here compared to others.

This thread was not about leaving out upgrades. That was brought up, red herring fashion, by someone else to defend Apple with a poor attempt at deriding Samsung (I don't own any Samsung devices by the; at least not tablets or smartphones). I simply thought it was a crude attempt at grasping at straws.

We had been talking about features and hardware of iOS devices and the slow rate of progress.




Michael

 

[Sensamic]

Apple isn't a villian period!

Oy! Look if you hate Apple or don't like the direction they are going (Tinmania) then don't buy! Simple as that. Bellyaching on a forum somewhere accomplishes absolutely nothing. Consumers vote with their wallets and until Apple either internally decides to change or feels pressure from dwindling sales to change, they won't.

Those of us who are fine with the current strategy shouldn't bother you. We are the ones who want to purchase Apple's phones and use them. If you don't, there are quite a few other (supposedly infinitely better) options out there and more are being added this year.

Android, WP8, iOS, BB10 etc all exist for the same purpose with (generally) the same end features - they all go about that purpose in different ways. That's the idea.....to have different approaches in the market so consumers can choose what they like best. One company alone doesn't offer all the choices - that would be a monopoly and there isn't a company anywhere who would take that power and cater to consumers....

So please - for the love of all that is holy and good, just relax, be content with whatever phone you choose and be excited when something new comes along. It's a much better way to enjoy the ride - trust me.

Can't accept criticism?

You don't like everyone telling you the products you are buying are outdated and overpriced and that the competition is better? Feeling a little bit unsecured?

 

[jrswizzle]

Can't accept criticism?

You don't like everyone telling you the products you are buying are outdated and overpriced and that the competition is better? Feeling a little bit INsecure?

Lol....wow.

I didn't make the device. I just purchased it (like tens of millions of others) because I feel it suits my needs. I don't care about my phone being "the best" - whatever that means.

If "the best" means the best specs - most cores, most GHz, most RAM, most ppi, then no the iPhone 5 isn't the best.

If "the best" means the biggest, then no the iPhone 5 isn't the best.

If "the best" means the best phone for what I want my phone to do and how I want it to integrate into MY personal life/workflow then yes, the iPhone 5 IS the best.

(not to mention that it has arguably the most accurate mobile display on the market, is equally, if not more so, as smooth as phones with more processing power and has better battery life than most phone with much larger batteries - so spec wise, it's no slouch.)

Go ahead - I know you're dying to explode about Samsung's new Octa-core processor that'll be in your SGS4, or the 1080p 6.3" Note 3 screen - go ahead. I don't care. Just don't tell me my personal choice has less merit than yours does. Because, at the end of the day, that's all it is - a personal choice.

Maybe you feel the need to overcompensate? Who knows? I'm not here to judge homie

 

[Tinmania]

I believe Tinmania has already implied in earlier posts that he is voting with his wallet. It seems he just wants to have a discussion about it on a forum.

As is often usual around here there are those who assume because you said anything that is not glowing about Apple that you must not have anything to do with Apple. It is black and white: you are either all in or all out. You either love Apple or "hate" Apple (lol). I don't understand that way of the thinking.

Meanwhile, I type this on my mac, into which my iPad is plugged and charging (actually so is my 4S which I don't use as my everyday phone, yet am unwilling at this point to let go).





Michael

 

[The iGentleman]

Plus smart call, motion gestures, smart rotate (soon if the Galaxy Note-esque update has not yet been released for the S3), NFC (think some versions of the S2 had NFC but not all), burst shot, best shot, smile shot, pop up player, picture whilst taking video, and more!

Was a pretty nice upgrade. I wonder if the S4 upgrade will be as big.

You're absolutely correct. Those that are fooling themselves into calling the GS3 an incremental update over the GS2, are way off base.

When the iPhone 4S gets a "software" feature the 4 could run but doesn't get, it's evil Apple trying to squeeze money from the poor consumers.

When Samsung does the same thing its examples of innovation and just how far Samsung is pushing the envelope!

Things like this (and politics) always spawn double standards....

Two totally different circumstances. Take the GS2 and GS3 for example. When the GS3 came out, it had completely different software than the S2. Once the S2 was updated to Ice Cream Sandwich, every feature that came with Ice Cream Sandwich was included in the update. Nothing was deliberately left out. As for Galaxy specific features, those that were capable of running, were included in the update. Apple on the other hand will deliberately exclude features from updates, regardless of the device's ability to run it, that's the difference.

 

[jrswizzle]

This thread was not about leaving out upgrades. That was brought up, red herring fashion, by someone else to defend Apple with a poor attempt at deriding Samsung (I don't own any Samsung devices by the; at least not tablets or smartphones). I simply thought it was a crude attempt at grasping at straws.

We had been talking about features and hardware of iOS devices and the slow rate of progress.




Michael

I simply brought up Samsung in that manner because people love to talk about how huge an upgrade going from the S2 to the S3 was and how terrible an upgrade going from the 4S to the 5 was (heck people even whine about how going from the 4 to the 5 isn't an upgrade).

Simply that both are solid upgrades, if not extraordinary. Both increase screen size and display quality, both add software features (Apple through iOS, Samsung through TouchWiz) and both made hardware tweaks/upgrades (Apple adds LTE, Samsung adds NFC).

Am I wrong?

----------

You're absolutely correct. Those that are fooling themselves into calling the GS3 an incremental update over the GS2, are way off base.


Two totally different circumstances. Take the GS2 and GS3 for example. When the GS3 came out, it had completely different software than the S2. Once the S2 was updated to Ice Cream Sandwich, every feature that came with Ice Cream Sandwich was included in the update. Nothing was deliberately left out. As for Galaxy specific features, those that were capable of running, were included in the update. Apple on the other hand will deliberately exclude features from updates, regardless of the device's ability to run it, that's the difference.

You're right - there are two different circumstances here in that Apple controls both the hardware and the software completely versus Samsung who controls the hardware, an overlay of software while Google controls the real software.

So taking the GS2 and GS3 - the GS3 will be getting (has gotten) 4.2 with multiview and the GS2 is supposed to get it sometime in the future. Both devices can run this software, but one gets it now and the other gets it later?

So instead of the OEM (Apple) holding back its either the carrier, the OS maker or the phone maker.....depending on the case.

I'd rather have guaranteed, timely updates of my software (generally 2-3 major updates over the life), with one or two things left out than MAYBE get 1 at some point because either TouchWiz (or whatever skin) needs to be tweaked for it or the carrier needs to do something to make it work etc....

So - I agree. Two different circumstances - neither perfect, though personally I don't fault a company (beit Samsung, Apple or whomever) for releasing a substantial piece of software only for their newest phone. I guess nowadays we expect all this stuff to be free -

Personally I see Siri (for instance) as a feature just like LTE. I didn't feel I needed it when the 4S came out so I waited and held on to my 4 until other features were added and warranted the upgrade. All the while my 4 got the incremental updates to fix bugs and add smaller features that were nice. When the 5 came out, I looked at all of the features it had versus those my 4 didn't - and Siri was part of that.

There are also things like impact to the servers if all the iphone 4 and ipad 2 users were added and using Siri - maybe Apple simply wanted to ease into it. Siri had enough problems connecting without adding another couple of million people using it - and those who paid for the new phone also "paid" for Siri. And as new phones come out (all having Siri at this point) Siri continues to develop and get better as Apple has had time to iron out kinks and bugs (and continues to do so).

Sure there's an aspect of planned obsolescence - but all technology does this. Apple isn't some evil company who deliberately holds back features to squeeze money from you. They have their reasons - and if someone doesn't like those reasons (or doesn't understand them) they are free to purchase something else.

 

[Tinmania]

I simply brought up Samsung in that manner because people love to talk about how huge an upgrade going from the S2 to the S3 was and how terrible an upgrade going from the 4S to the 5 was (heck people even whine about how going from the 4 to the 5 isn't an upgrade).

Simply that both are solid upgrades, if not extraordinary. Both increase screen size and display quality, both add software features (Apple through iOS, Samsung through TouchWiz) and both made hardware tweaks/upgrades (Apple adds LTE, Samsung adds NFC).

Am I wrong?

Yes. Incredibly so.

S2-S3 is a major upgrade whereas the 4S-5 was basically an elongated 4/4S. That has already been spelled out here by others so no need for me to rehash it.

More importantly, the 4-4S was also a ho-hum update, to the point where I regretted getting it. I admit, I got taken in by Siri. No wonder Apple didn't include it in the iPhone 4.



Michael

 

[matttye]

The NFC antenna is in the battery, not the NFC circuitry. Using a Samsung NFC battery in an S2 does not give it NFC capability.




This thread was not about leaving out upgrades. That was brought up, red herring fashion, by someone else to defend Apple with a poor attempt at deriding Samsung (I don't own any Samsung devices by the; at least not tablets or smartphones). I simply thought it was a crude attempt at grasping at straws.

We had been talking about features and hardware of iOS devices and the slow rate of progress.




Michael

I'm no expert on how NFC is implemented in devices so I won't argue

I think the point was well made though. When you consider how many iOS updates each iPhone gets, and how many extra features it gets, that is usually more than Android phones get in their lifetime.

The original iPhone had about ~20 apps and that was it. No copy and paste. No MMS. No forwarding text messages. No sending messages to multiple people. Hundreds of other basic features missing. I felt Apple had made a revolutionary device but at the same time, their inexperience in the mobile market showed and they had missed out hundreds of basic features that other devices had had for like ten years.

It ended up with all of that stuff and more (bar MMS).

Even Samsung, one of the better manufacturers at getting OS updates out is still painfully slow. Jelly Bean has been out since July 2012 and the Galaxy S2 hasn't been updated to it yet. This will only be the second major OS update the Galaxy S2 sees. They are always missing their own deadlines as well.

You have to wait longer for certain features to get to iOS but they're usually implemented really well. There are of course, exceptions, as with anything.

 

[jrswizzle]

Yes. Incredibly so.

S2-S3 is a major upgrade whereas the 4S-5 was basically an elongated 4/4S. That has already been spelled out here by others so no need for me to rehash it.

More importantly, the 4-4S was also a ho-hum update, to the point where I regretted getting it. I admit, I got taken in by Siri. No wonder Apple didn't include it in the iPhone 4.



Michael

What about my post wasn't correct?

The 5 is NOT "basically an elongated 4/4S". If you (or others) don't see that, its because you choose not to.

The 4-4S wasn't a big upgrade, you're right. I didn't purchase the 4S (or at least wasn't planning to until my 4 fritzed out).

Honestly, the jump between the 4S to the 5 was one of the largest the line had seen - except for maybe the 3GS to the 4. Again, you and others choose not to see this - and what you say "has been spelled out" is nothing more than the same "the 5 is basically just a stretched 4S" - which is an ignorant description.

My job provided a 4S for work - I use both the 5 and 4S on a daily basis.....the screen size is one of MANY things I notice as different between the two. I'm not saying all the differences are/should be important to you - but that doesn't mean you pretend like they don't exist.

 

[The iGentleman]

I simply brought up Samsung in that manner because people love to talk about how huge an upgrade going from the S2 to the S3 was and how terrible an upgrade going from the 4S to the 5 was (heck people even whine about how going from the 4 to the 5 isn't an upgrade).

Simply that both are solid upgrades, if not extraordinary. Both increase screen size and display quality, both add software features (Apple through iOS, Samsung through TouchWiz) and both made hardware tweaks/upgrades (Apple adds LTE, Samsung adds NFC).

Am I wrong?

----------

I have to completely disagree with you here. The upgrade from a 4S to an iPhone 5 is hardly what I'd call extraordinary, or even substantial for that matter. In the end, the iPhone 5 is a slightly longer 4S with LTE. The improvments under the hood aren't ostensible, and doesn't add anything to the experience over that of the 4S. As for display quality, it was wasn't really increased at all. The resolution was increased to maintain the ppi with the 4" screen. In the end, the iPhone 5 is virtually the same experience as the 4S, just with LTE, and a SLIGHTLY longer screen. The GS3 on the other hand brought improvements in many areas. In this thread I've already touched on a few, as have other people also, so I won't rehash them again.

You're right - there are two different circumstances here in that Apple controls both the hardware and the software completely versus Samsung who controls the hardware, an overlay of software while Google controls the real software.

So taking the GS2 and GS3 - the GS3 will be getting (has gotten) 4.2 with multiview and the GS2 is supposed to get it sometime in the future. Both devices can run this software, but one gets it now and the other gets it later?

So instead of the OEM (Apple) holding back its either the carrier, the OS maker or the phone maker.....depending on the case.

I'd rather have guaranteed, timely updates of my software (generally 2-3 major updates over the life), with one or two things left out than MAYBE get 1 at some point because either TouchWiz (or whatever skin) needs to be tweaked for it or the carrier needs to do something to make it work etc....

So - I agree. Two different circumstances - neither perfect, though personally I don't fault a company (beit Samsung, Apple or whomever) for releasing a substantial piece of software only for their newest phone. I guess nowadays we expect all this stuff to be free -

Personally I see Siri (for instance) as a feature just like LTE. I didn't feel I needed it when the 4S came out so I waited and held on to my 4 until other features were added and warranted the upgrade. All the while my 4 got the incremental updates to fix bugs and add smaller features that were nice. When the 5 came out, I looked at all of the features it had versus those my 4 didn't - and Siri was part of that.

There are also things like impact to the servers if all the iphone 4 and ipad 2 users were added and using Siri - maybe Apple simply wanted to ease into it. Siri had enough problems connecting without adding another couple of million people using it - and those who paid for the new phone also "paid" for Siri. And as new phones come out (all having Siri at this point) Siri continues to develop and get better as Apple has had time to iron out kinks and bugs (and continues to do so).

Sure there's an aspect of planned obsolescence - but all technology does this. Apple isn't some evil company who deliberately holds back features to squeeze money from you. They have their reasons - and if someone doesn't like those reasons (or doesn't understand them) they are free to purchase something else.

Ideally, I'd like to see the oem's speed up their update processes. On the other hand, I still think it is better than Apple's way of doing it (deliberately leaving out features). Simply put, I'd rather a feature come to my phone a few months later than never at all. Late beats never every time.

 

[Tinmania]

What about my post wasn't correct?

The 5 is NOT "basically an elongated 4/4S". If you (or others) don't see that, its because you choose not to.

The 4-4S wasn't a big upgrade, you're right. I didn't purchase the 4S (or at least wasn't planning to until my 4 fritzed out).

Honestly, the jump between the 4S to the 5 was one of the largest the line had seen - except for maybe the 3GS to the 4. Again, you and others choose not to see this - and what you say "has been spelled out" is nothing more than the same "the 5 is basically just a stretched 4S" - which is an ignorant description.

My job provided a 4S for work - I use both the 5 and 4S on a daily basis.....the screen size is one of MANY things I notice as different between the two. I'm not saying all the differences are/should be important to you - but that doesn't mean you pretend like they don't exist.

People say it's an elongated 4/4S for a reason. A lot of people say that; certainly not just me.

You, on the other hand, are the only person I have heard try and say the S2 to S3 wasn't a big upgrade.

If the iPhone 4S-5 was anywhere near that kind of upgrade I would have an iPhone 5 right now and not a Nexus 4.



Michael

 

[jrswizzle]

I have to completely disagree with you here. The upgrade from a 4S to an iPhone 5 is hardly what I'd call extraordinary, or even substantial for that matter. In the end, the iPhone 5 is a slightly longer 4S with LTE. The improvments under the hood aren't ostensible, and doesn't add anything to the experience over that of the 4S. As for display quality, it was wasn't really increased at all. The resolution was increased to maintain the ppi with the 4" screen. In the end, the iPhone 5 is virtually the same experience as the 4S, just with LTE, and a SLIGHTLY longer screen. The GS3 on the other hand brought improvements in many areas. In this thread I've already touched on a few, as have other people also, so I won't rehash them again.



Ideally, I'd like to see the oem's speed up their update processes. On the other hand, I still think it is better than Apple's way of doing it (deliberately leaving out features). Simply put, I'd rather a feature come to my phone a few months later than never at all. Late beats never every time.

I said that NEITHER update was extraordinary. And as a user of both the 4S and 5 daily, I can tell you (with the spec sheets to back me up) that you are wrong. Now I'm not saying every difference is ultimately important to everyone, but that doesn't mean they don't exist (like many of the "features" added to the GS3 are things I would never use).

The iPhone 5 vs. the iPhone 4S
-bigger screen (I thought this was one of the most important things to many of you - and it was just as big a change as the S2 to the S3 = 0.5")
-LTE
-Screen quality (which is ABSOLUTELY better....not everything is about ppi and resolution. The process they used to put the display together brought the screen closer to the outer glass and gives the 5 the most accurately colored display on the market - it's not even close with the 4S. If you used both you'd notice how washed out the 4S colors look next to the 5).
-Processing speed - its almost 3X as fast....I have no idea how that isn't substantial. It's WAY bigger than any processor jump they've ever done.
-Thinner/Lighter - I know some don't care, but I appreciate the feel of the 5 versus the 4S which leads to....
-Design - yes they are both rounded rectangles but the actual design and production of the 5 is vastly different from the 4S. Different speaker design, different material (aluminum vs glass), different display design, different antenna design.

In short, there are a ton of differences that most choose not to see because they are/were so upset with iOS6 - which in all honesty wasn't anything special. From a software standpoint, iOS 6 didn't add very much (certainly any differences between the 4S and 5 since both got every new feature announced).

But lets make sure to be clear - iOS 6 and the iPhone 5 are somewhat separate. While the upgrade from the 4S to the 5 (hardware wise) was quite substantial for the reasons I listed, the software side was a bust. Not only was iOS 6 not much different from iOS 5 - but both the 4S and 5 get all the new features that were added with iOS 6.

----------

People say it's an elongated 4/4S for a reason. A lot of people say that; certainly not just me.

You, on the other hand, are the only person I have heard try and say the S2 to S3 wasn't a big upgrade.

If the iPhone 4S-5 was anywhere near that kind of upgrade I would have an iPhone 5 right now and not a Nexus 4.



Michael

People who say that bit about the elongated 4/4S are in denial because they felt screwed by iOS 6. I look at each update separately (hardware vs. software.....just read the above post.

And I never said the S2-S3 wasn't a BIG upgrade. Only that both the S2-S3 and the 4S-5 upgrades were very solid, but not monumental.

Name hardware differences between the S2 and the S3. The software side is tougher given both the 4S and 5 got the exact same software update (which wasn't very good - I concede that) while the S2 and S3 did not.

 

[The iGentleman]

I said that NEITHER update was extraordinary.

No, your words were "Simply that both are solid upgrades, if not extraordinary." You pretty clearly stated you think both updates are solid, and could be extraordinary.

And as a user of both the 4S and 5 daily, I can tell you (with the spec sheets to back me up) that you are wrong. Now I'm not saying every difference is ultimately important to everyone, but that doesn't mean they don't exist (like many of the "features" added to the GS3 are things I would never use).

The differences are not ostensible, and do not add any meaningful difference of experience over the 4S.

The iPhone 5 vs. the iPhone 4S
-bigger screen (I thought this was one of the most important things to many of you - and it was just as big a change as the S2 to the S3 = 0.5")

The phone is merely longer. They did not add screen size proportionately, they simply added it vertically. So the same screen limitations that were there horizontally (web browsing for example), are still there. Then there's the fact that a 4" is TINY, as is considerably outdated. Simply put, the screen is still narrow, still small, and just barely bigger than the 4S'.

-Screen quality (which is ABSOLUTELY better....not everything is about ppi and resolution. The process they used to put the display together brought the screen closer to the outer glass and gives the 5 the most accurately colored display on the market - it's not even close with the 4S. If you used both you'd notice how washed out the 4S colors look next to the 5).

I don't care about the process they used, or how close it is to the glass. The bottom line is, there is not a discernable difference between the quality of the two screens.

-Processing speed - its almost 3X as fast....I have no idea how that isn't substantial. It's WAY bigger than any processor jump they've ever done.

That's fantastic...for benchmarks. In the real world, it adds very little value, if any. iOS isn't a very sophisticated OS, so it doesn't really need that sort of horsepower, nor does it benefit from it. So what does that spec bump provide? Your camera app opens a split second faster? Apps open a millisecond sooner? Big deal. It sounds really nice when someone says how it's "3x as fast", but it doesn't sound so good when you talk about what that actually translates too in the real life use.

-Thinner/Lighter - I know some don't care, but I appreciate the feel of the 5 versus the 4S which leads to....

It still lacks ergonomics, which doesn't feel good at all.

-Design - yes they are both rounded rectangles but the actual design and production of the 5 is vastly different from the 4S. Different speaker design, different material (aluminum vs glass), different display design, different antenna design.

Now you're really reaching there. Speaker design? Antenna design? It's almost like you're reading from a PR release. Nobody goes to the store, looks at an iPhone 5 and says "whoa they changed the speaker and antenna designs!"

In short, there are a ton of differences that most choose not to see because they are/were so upset with iOS6 - which in all honesty wasn't anything special. From a software standpoint, iOS 6 didn't add very much (certainly any differences between the 4S and 5 since both got every new feature announced).

But lets make sure to be clear - iOS 6 and the iPhone 5 are somewhat separate. While the upgrade from the 4S to the 5 (hardware wise) was quite substantial for the reasons I listed, the software side was a bust. Not only was iOS 6 not much different from iOS 5 - but both the 4S and 5 get all the new features that were added with iOS 6.

I completely disagree. Either way you slice it, the iPhone 5 is nothing more than the 4S with a different body and LTE. Like I said previously, the experience on the 5 is not meaningfully different from the 4S. If you disagree, please tell me SPECIFICALLY how the experience on the 5 is different. Understand that I'm not asking you about speaker designs and and antenna designs. I'm talking about in normal day to day use, what makes the 5 any different in use from the 4S. I've had them both, and I can honestly say I have seen no difference other than LTE providing faster surfing when not on wifi. If on wifi, the only difference is I can see a SLIGHT more of the bottom of a page.

----------

People who say that bit about the elongated 4/4S are in denial because they felt screwed by iOS 6. I look at each update separately (hardware vs. software.....just read the above post.

And I never said the S2-S3 wasn't a BIG upgrade. Only that both the S2-S3 and the 4S-5 upgrades were very solid, but not monumental.

Name hardware differences between the S2 and the S3. The software side is tougher given both the 4S and 5 got the exact same software update (which wasn't very good - I concede that) while the S2 and S3 did not.

Hardware differences were pretty substantial also. It went from a low res display to a larger, high definition display. They doubled the ram, and added a next-gen processor...which you actually do get to benefit from because it helps a lot with multitasking, ESPECIALLY if using multiview. With the move from the GS2 to the GS3, they included meaningful upgrades to both the hardware and software. Apple on the other hand added hardware upgrades, but they aren't meaningful due to the nature of the OS. Sure it looks great on benchmarks, but due to the OS having little to no sophistication, it is overkill. There really isn't anything in iOS to take advantage of that horsepower.

 

[matttye]

No, your words were "Simply that both are solid upgrades, if not extraordinary." You pretty clearly stated you think both updates are solid, and could be extraordinary.

The differences are not ostensible, and do not add any meaningful difference of experience over the 4S.


The phone is merely longer. They did not add screen size proportionately, they simply added it vertically. So the same screen limitations that were there horizontally (web browsing for example), are still there. Then there's the fact that a 4" is TINY, as is considerably outdated. Simply put, the screen is still narrow, still small, and just barely bigger than the 4S'.

I don't care about the process they used, or how close it is to the glass. The bottom line is, there is not a discernable difference between the quality of the two screens.

That's fantastic...for benchmarks. In the real world, it adds very little value, if any. iOS isn't a very sophisticated OS, so it doesn't really need that sort of horsepower, nor does it benefit from it. So what does that spec bump provide? Your camera app opens a split second faster? Apps open a millisecond sooner? Big deal. It sounds really nice when someone says how it's "3x as fast", but it doesn't sound so good when you talk about what that actually translates too in the real life use.

It still lacks ergonomics, which doesn't feel good at all.

Now you're really reaching there. Speaker design? Antenna design? It's almost like you're reading from a PR release. Nobody goes to the store, looks at an iPhone 5 and says "whoa they changed the speaker and antenna designs!"


I completely disagree. Either way you slice it, the iPhone 5 is nothing more than the 4S with a different body and LTE. Like I said previously, the experience on the 5 is not meaningfully different from the 4S. If you disagree, please tell me SPECIFICALLY how the experience on the 5 is different. Understand that I'm not asking you about speaker designs and and antenna designs. I'm talking about in normal day to day use, what makes the 5 any different in use from the 4S. I've had them both, and I can honestly say I have seen no difference other than LTE providing faster surfing when not on wifi. If on wifi, the only difference is I can see a SLIGHT more of the bottom of a page.

----------

[/COLOR]


Hardware differences were pretty substantial also. It went from a low res display to a larger, high definition display. They doubled the ram, and added a next-gen processor...which you actually do get to benefit from because it helps a lot with multitasking, ESPECIALLY if using multiview. With the move from the GS2 to the GS3, they included meaningful upgrades to both the hardware and software. Apple on the other hand added hardware upgrades, but they aren't meaningful due to the nature of the OS. Sure it looks great on benchmarks, but due to the OS having little to no sophistication, it is overkill. There really isn't anything in iOS to take advantage of that horsepower.

- .5" bigger screen
- Improved processor and GPU
- 1 GB RAM (double)
- Nano SIM (helps maintain the small physical size of the phone)
- Dual band WiFi
- LTE and DC-HSDPA
- Improved rear camera
- 1.2MP front facing camera, 720p for FaceTime
- Improved battery life
- New connector (new one is reversable and more durable)
- New design

They basically made everything better. Games/apps can take advantage of the improved specs and the device is really really smooth. I experience lag only one in a blue moon.

 

[jrswizzle]

No, your words were "Simply that both are solid upgrades, if not extraordinary." You pretty clearly stated you think both updates are solid, and could be extraordinary.

The differences are not ostensible, and do not add any meaningful difference of experience over the 4S.


The phone is merely longer. They did not add screen size proportionately, they simply added it vertically. So the same screen limitations that were there horizontally (web browsing for example), are still there. Then there's the fact that a 4" is TINY, as is considerably outdated. Simply put, the screen is still narrow, still small, and just barely bigger than the 4S'.

I don't care about the process they used, or how close it is to the glass. The bottom line is, there is not a discernable difference between the quality of the two screens.

That's fantastic...for benchmarks. In the real world, it adds very little value, if any. iOS isn't a very sophisticated OS, so it doesn't really need that sort of horsepower, nor does it benefit from it. So what does that spec bump provide? Your camera app opens a split second faster? Apps open a millisecond sooner? Big deal. It sounds really nice when someone says how it's "3x as fast", but it doesn't sound so good when you talk about what that actually translates too in the real life use.

It still lacks ergonomics, which doesn't feel good at all.

Now you're really reaching there. Speaker design? Antenna design? It's almost like you're reading from a PR release. Nobody goes to the store, looks at an iPhone 5 and says "whoa they changed the speaker and antenna designs!"


I completely disagree. Either way you slice it, the iPhone 5 is nothing more than the 4S with a different body and LTE. Like I said previously, the experience on the 5 is not meaningfully different from the 4S. If you disagree, please tell me SPECIFICALLY how the experience on the 5 is different. Understand that I'm not asking you about speaker designs and and antenna designs. I'm talking about in normal day to day use, what makes the 5 any different in use from the 4S. I've had them both, and I can honestly say I have seen no difference other than LTE providing faster surfing when not on wifi. If on wifi, the only difference is I can see a SLIGHT more of the bottom of a page.

----------

[/COLOR]


Hardware differences were pretty substantial also. It went from a low res display to a larger, high definition display. They doubled the ram, and added a next-gen processor...which you actually do get to benefit from because it helps a lot with multitasking, ESPECIALLY if using multiview. With the move from the GS2 to the GS3, they included meaningful upgrades to both the hardware and software. Apple on the other hand added hardware upgrades, but they aren't meaningful due to the nature of the OS. Sure it looks great on benchmarks, but due to the OS having little to no sophistication, it is overkill. There really isn't anything in iOS to take advantage of that horsepower.

You misunderstood. I meant that both upgrades were solid, THOUGH not extraordinary - poor phrasing on my part.

Frankly, since I never said the update was extraordinary, I never expected it to change my life. My point was that in almost every way they updated the iPhone 5. You can't see the screen difference even though there is a big one, that's fine. And they simply changed the aspect ratio - hence why there's no width increase. Go look at the 4" droid razr....it's exactly the same size.

And despite some software improvements, the S2-S3 update wasn't extraordinary either.

Whatever, I'm done talking with the brick walls here.

 

[Tinmania]

- .5" bigger screen

Oh yay!!!

- Improved processor and GPU
- 1 GB RAM (double)

Neither of those really impact the user experience though. I never complained that my 4S was slow. Heck even my 4 was fine.

- Nano SIM (helps maintain the small physical size of the phone)

Few will even see the SIM.

- Dual band WiFi
- LTE and DC-HSDPA

LTE of course. Wifi... not going to be noticed really.

- Improved rear camera

It was already good on the 4S. Minor update but yes it is better.

- 1.2MP front facing camera, 720p for FaceTime

It's nice that was improved. No one is going to take the next great photo with it but it is improved and more in line with the competition.

- Improved battery life

That is a plus.

- New connector (new one is reversable and more durable)

That was a negative to me and while minor it was a small factor in sealing the deal for me not getting the 5. The modest update was one thing. Investing in adapters to handle all my chargers was another.

But I can appreciate it is improved.

- New design

They basically made everything better. Games/apps can take advantage of the improved specs and the device is really really smooth. I experience lag only one in a blue moon.

Honestly I can't see playing anything but simple games like words with friends on such a small screen. I stopped playing any fast-paced action games on iPhones long ago. The exception I would say is Temple Run but it runs buttery smooth on even an iPhone 4.

Most people are simply not going to see much difference, performance-wise. It's a shame they couldn't have used that extra horsepower for a larger screen, on say an iPhone 5W (wider) and leave the 5 for people who are OK with that size. I'd more than likely have one if they did that and never even considered the Nexus I have now.

What some don't realize is that some of us never wanted to go to anything but an iPhone. But it was as if Apple was practically showing me the door by ignoring the super-obvious trend in larger-screened phones.


Mike

 

[flawlessvictory]

Oy! Look if you hate Apple or don't like the direction they are going (Tinmania) then don't buy! Simple as that. Bellyaching on a forum somewhere accomplishes absolutely nothing. Consumers vote with their wallets and until Apple either internally decides to change or feels pressure from dwindling sales to change, they won't.

Those of us who are fine with the current strategy shouldn't bother you. We are the ones who want to purchase Apple's phones and use them. If you don't, there are quite a few other (supposedly infinitely better) options out there and more are being added this year.

Android, WP8, iOS, BB10 etc all exist for the same purpose with (generally) the same end features - they all go about that purpose in different ways. That's the idea.....to have different approaches in the market so consumers can choose what they like best. One company alone doesn't offer all the choices - that would be a monopoly and there isn't a company anywhere who would take that power and cater to consumers....

So please - for the love of all that is holy and good, just relax, be content with whatever phone you choose and be excited when something new comes along. It's a much better way to enjoy the ride - trust me.

I don't see any point in arguing with this guy. If you've read any of his posts (while he has some great insight into Android OS) he is incredibly biased.

Quite frankly I think the whole incremental upgrade is a bit overblown. The fact that companies do not update their older products with the latest version of Android creates a somewhat false sense of how great an upgrade their products are sometimes.

Let me take a step back and say, I think Android manufacturers make great products, I think the GS3 is great. In fact I'm trading in my iPhone 5 for a Nexus 4 (if it ever arrives). But if the Galaxy Nexus weren't with its many deficiencies (camera, screen, battery life) then the upgrade to a Nexus 4 would not seem like such a momumental upgrade when both receive 4.2.

 

[The iGentleman]

1- .5" bigger screen
2- Improved processor and GPU
3- 1 GB RAM (double)
4- Nano SIM (helps maintain the small physical size of the phone)
5- Dual band WiFi
6- LTE and DC-HSDPA
7- Improved rear camera
8- 1.2MP front facing camera, 720p for FaceTime
9- Improved battery life
10- New connector (new one is reversable and more durable)
11- New design

1. A longer small screen. The screen is only marginally larger, and because it added no width at all, doesn't really change the viewing experience much (especially during web browsing).
2. The previous one was quite serviceable, and that extra horsepower the new one brings, doesn't change the user experience at all. In other words, it's fluff upgrade.
3. The additional RAM is good, but in the end with such little OS sophistication, still doesn't yield much difference in the user experience department.
4. Nano sim? Really? Who cares what kind of sim card their phone uses?
5. While that's great on a spec sheet, the bottom line is people will still connect to the same wifi networks they did before. In other words, it's nice that it's there, but in the end, doesn't add anything to the end user's experience.
6. This is one of the things I listed as one of the only differences in the 4S and 5.
7. Adds nothing to the user experience. The 4S took great photos already, and the average person would have a hard time telling the difference between a photo taken on a 4S and one taken on a 5. Simply put, the improvement is so small that most people wouldn't even notice it, and thus doesn't really add anything to the user experience.
8. See #7 (FFC to a lesser extent).
9. That is a good thing.
10. A connector?! Seriously? A connector? Mentioning the connector is like mentioning the headphone jack being in a new place. The connector is hardly a selling point. As a matter of fact, one could argue it's a drawback for those who owned previous iPhones. In short, it adds nothing to the user experience.
11. That's nice...though the new design seems to be even more fragile than the previous one. Though it doesn't change the experience, I do acknowledge that it is different from its predecessor.

Out of the 11 things you mentioned, only 2 do anything to differentiate the user experience on the iPhone 5 from that of the iPhone 4S. Those two things are the screen size change and the addition of LTE. If a person is connected to wifi, then that leaves only one thing...the screen size, and that isn't very much of a difference. This is why I say there really isn't much difference between the 4S and the 5. The 5 is basically the 4S with a different look, a slightly longer screen, and LTE. Besides that, it's essentially the same phone.

They basically made everything better. Games/apps can take advantage of the improved specs and the device is really really smooth. I experience lag only one in a blue moon.

I experienced lag only once in a blue moon on the 4S. Let's be honest, lag isn't something the 4S was struggling with, so additional horsepower isn't really doing anything for the user experience. The CPU and GPU in the 4S already exceeded the games that are available. Games have yet to catch up to smartphone hardware, so the additional horsepower is simply overkill.

You misunderstood. I meant that both upgrades were solid, THOUGH not extraordinary - poor phrasing on my part.

Fair enough.

Frankly, since I never said the update was extraordinary, I never expected it to change my life.

On that we agree.

My point was that in almost every way they updated the iPhone 5.

As I stated in my above reply to Mattye, yes they updated several things, but they didn't do anything that adds anything meaningful to the experience. Like I asked you in my previous response, I would like you to tell me specifically what makes the experience on the iPhone 5 different to that of the iPhone 4S. Not a spec upgrade run down, I mean a real life statement of how the experiences differ. I ask this because I have owned both, and I can honestly say the experience is virtually identical (with the exception of seeing a tiny amount more on the bottom of the screen).

You can't see the screen difference even though there is a big one, that's fine.

I don't see one at all. If there is one, the difference is so small it isn't worth mentioning. As far as I'm concerned the screen quality is on par with its predecessor.

And they simply changed the aspect ratio - hence why there's no width increase. Go look at the 4" droid razr....it's exactly the same size.

Exactly, my point...just a mere aspect ratio change. It doesn't do hardly anything for the user experience as far as changing it.

Whatever, I'm done talking with the brick walls here.

I'd just like you to answer my question. What exactly is different about the user experience on the iPhone 5 versus that of the iPhone 4S? What specifically makes that user experience different?

 

[jrswizzle]

I'd just like you to answer my question. What exactly is different about the user experience on the iPhone 5 versus that of the iPhone 4S? What specifically makes that user experience different?

Aside from the overall increase in responsiveness, the brighter more accurately colored screen, and the immensely faster data connections - not much else I suppose. But as I was saying, that is more a product of the software update than the hardware. Yes the UI is exactly the same, they've added functionailty to maps with turn by turn, I use passbook regularly and the overall integration between devices is better - I also use the shared photo stream a ton.

Truth is, hardware-wise, no one is really coming up with anything new. That's why I'm of the belief any 'innovation that happens over the next couple of years will likely be software related.

And TBH, I really didn't require much more from my phone based on my personal user experience. So maybe I'm just not the right person to ask that question. I do like the iP5 design more. While 16:9 isn't as good for browsing the web, it's great for videos. If I'm going to really browse the internet I have an iPad mini and an iPad 4 to do so with.

But hopefully I'll get my hands on a Nexus 4 soon and I can see what the extra 0.7" in a 16:10 ratio does for me!

 

[matttye]

Oh yay!!!


Neither of those really impact the user experience though. I never complained that my 4S was slow. Heck even my 4 was fine.



Few will even see the SIM.


LTE of course. Wifi... not going to be noticed really.



It was already good on the 4S. Minor update but yes it is better.




It's nice that was improved. No one is going to take the next great photo with it but it is improved and more in line with the competition.



That is a plus.


That was a negative to me and while minor it was a small factor in sealing the deal for me not getting the 5. The modest update was one thing. Investing in adapters to handle all my chargers was another.

But I can appreciate it is improved.


Honestly I can't see playing anything but simple games like words with friends on such a small screen. I stopped playing any fast-paced action games on iPhones long ago. The exception I would say is Temple Run but it runs buttery smooth on even an iPhone 4.

Most people are simply not going to see much difference, performance-wise. It's a shame they couldn't have used that extra horsepower for a larger screen, on say an iPhone 5W (wider) and leave the 5 for people who are OK with that size. I'd more than likely have one if they did that and never even considered the Nexus I have now.

What some don't realize is that some of us never wanted to go to anything but an iPhone. But it was as if Apple was practically showing me the door by ignoring the super-obvious trend in larger-screened phones.


Mike

My point was that the phone is not "merely longer" as suggested by iGentleman. Practically every component in the phone was upgraded in some form or another. It was a substantial upgrade hardware-wise.

You're right that iOS 6 didn't add much in way of features that will take advantage of the hardware. I didn't use the 4S so I don't know how fast it was, but the iPhone 5 flies at everything. Panning and zooming around maps, web pages, etc is really fast and there's no delay at all. Apps start up really quickly.

Dual band wifi support will make a difference to anyone that has a dual band router and knows the difference between the two bands. The 5GHz frequency is much faster if you're close to the router. Not so good with distance.

----------

1. A longer small screen. The screen is only marginally larger, and because it added no width at all, doesn't really change the viewing experience much (especially during web browsing).
2. The previous one was quite serviceable, and that extra horsepower the new one brings, doesn't change the user experience at all. In other words, it's fluff upgrade.
3. The additional RAM is good, but in the end with such little OS sophistication, still doesn't yield much difference in the user experience department.
4. Nano sim? Really? Who cares what kind of sim card their phone uses?
5. While that's great on a spec sheet, the bottom line is people will still connect to the same wifi networks they did before. In other words, it's nice that it's there, but in the end, doesn't add anything to the end user's experience.
6. This is one of the things I listed as one of the only differences in the 4S and 5.
7. Adds nothing to the user experience. The 4S took great photos already, and the average person would have a hard time telling the difference between a photo taken on a 4S and one taken on a 5. Simply put, the improvement is so small that most people wouldn't even notice it, and thus doesn't really add anything to the user experience.
8. See #7 (FFC to a lesser extent).
9. That is a good thing.
10. A connector?! Seriously? A connector? Mentioning the connector is like mentioning the headphone jack being in a new place. The connector is hardly a selling point. As a matter of fact, one could argue it's a drawback for those who owned previous iPhones. In short, it adds nothing to the user experience.
11. That's nice...though the new design seems to be even more fragile than the previous one. Though it doesn't change the experience, I do acknowledge that it is different from its predecessor.

Out of the 11 things you mentioned, only 2 do anything to differentiate the user experience on the iPhone 5 from that of the iPhone 4S. Those two things are the screen size change and the addition of LTE. If a person is connected to wifi, then that leaves only one thing...the screen size, and that isn't very much of a difference. This is why I say there really isn't much difference between the 4S and the 5. The 5 is basically the 4S with a different look, a slightly longer screen, and LTE. Besides that, it's essentially the same phone.


I experienced lag only once in a blue moon on the 4S. Let's be honest, lag isn't something the 4S was struggling with, so additional horsepower isn't really doing anything for the user experience. The CPU and GPU in the 4S already exceeded the games that are available. Games have yet to catch up to smartphone hardware, so the additional horsepower is simply overkill.


Fair enough.


On that we agree.

As I stated in my above reply to Mattye, yes they updated several things, but they didn't do anything that adds anything meaningful to the experience. Like I asked you in my previous response, I would like you to tell me specifically what makes the experience on the iPhone 5 different to that of the iPhone 4S. Not a spec upgrade run down, I mean a real life statement of how the experiences differ. I ask this because I have owned both, and I can honestly say the experience is virtually identical (with the exception of seeing a tiny amount more on the bottom of the screen).

I don't see one at all. If there is one, the difference is so small it isn't worth mentioning. As far as I'm concerned the screen quality is on par with its predecessor.

Exactly, my point...just a mere aspect ratio change. It doesn't do hardly anything for the user experience as far as changing it.


I'd just like you to answer my question. What exactly is different about the user experience on the iPhone 5 versus that of the iPhone 4S? What specifically makes that user experience different?

See my above reply.