The picture says it all

[ApplesAOranges]

http://www.giga.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Mac-Pro_2013_Mac-Pro_2013.jpg

I´m also a musician and mixing engineer so in top of ALL THAT... I need to still get Magma Expansion chassis for my Pro Tools and UAD-2 PCIe cards. And that´s not going to be cheap!

Nice one Apple!

 

[Tesselator]

It would be border-line retarded to believe that image was at all accurate!

 

[ApplesAOranges]

It would be border-line retarded to believe that image was at all accurate!

Why not?

It´s absolutely the truth!

For example if I would buy the new Mac Pro, these things would be hanging out:

3 x external TB hard drives
1 x PCIe TB expansion chassis loaded with all my PCIe cards
1 x Super Drive

On top of all that I have many things already hanging out from my current Mac Pro. So all these extra things would also add up. Not to mention the prices for all these extra expansion chassises and TB hard drives will cost insanely!

What a mess!!!

The cable spaghetti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tesselator]

Why not?

It´s absolutely the truth!

For example if I would buy the new Mac Pro, these things would be hanging out:

• 3 x external TB hard drives
• 1 x PCIe TB expansion chassis loaded with all my PCIe cards
• 1 x Super Drive

On top of all that I have many things already hanging out from my current Mac Pro. So all these extra things would also add up. Not to mention the prices for all these extra expansion chassises and TB hard drives will cost insanely!

What a mess!!!

The cable spaghetti!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said, borderline retarded. A and C can go into one single enclosure connected via USB3 with no performance hit. Define B... you probably don't need them any longer. Sell them and buy something modern and useful.

So where that image lies and shows 5 external components the truth is only one is needed - and that's what i mean by: believing it is borderline retarded.

 

[marbeljoyce]

Man, you write a lot of music.

Why not to put your aesthetic skill to use and just get extensions matching design and are compact and , rethink workflow maybe instead of 3 you can have 1, **** like that

Now days is inexcusable to complain about wire jumbles when we have – http://www.techflex.com and Velcro. Seriously.

 

[d-m-a-x]

It's not too far off the mark. Apple was really heavy handed, depending on tech that is not largely available yet. Going to be a rough transition

 

[Tesselator]

It's not too far off the mark. Apple was really heavy handed, depending on tech that is not largely available yet. Going to be a rough transition

I counted 40 or 50 different TB devices in the first 10 Amazon result pages when I searched for Thunderbolt. I of course ignored cables. and there are maybe thousands of USB3 devices available. It doesn't look like it will be too rough to me. Early adopters will of course pay a premium like always but a lot of that is already over with now even - especially the USB3 devices.

 

[Baunkjaer]

It would be border-line retarded to believe that image was at all accurate!

Maybe, but it´s still funny.

 

[Tesselator]

Maybe, but it´s still funny.

Yup, I thought it was pretty funny when I saw it. But then people started thinking it was actually serious... like the OP here for example.

For a much more accurate comparison (if it's to be at all taken seriously) the image portion of the MP5,1 should look more like this:

​

My actual MP system - not including other musical instruments, headphones, microphones, card readers, or the two very large APS battery backup power systems.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

Like I said, borderline retarded. A and C can go into one single enclosure connected via USB3 with no performance hit. Define B... you probably don't need them any longer. Sell them and buy something modern and useful.

So where that image lies and shows 5 external components the truth is only one is needed - and that's what i mean by: believing it is borderline retarded.

A & C Enclosure like what? I need to buy another thing? Jesus! Still it would be hanging out with extra cables!

B So I don´t need Pro Tools or my UAD-2 cards anymore. I need to buy something more modern? RIIIIIIIGHT!!! Get outta here Tesse! You are not contributing anything!

Man, you write a lot of music.

Ever heard of sample libraries?

 

[ABCDEF-Hex]

Isn't that the case with any new technology?

It's not too far off the mark. Apple was really heavy handed, depending on tech that is not largely available yet. Going to be a rough transition

They certainly would have been criticized for just a minor speed bump. With your thinking they should wait till someone else innovates and when everything is available just copy it. The 6,1 Mac Pro isn't even available yet.

 

[subsonix]

B So I don´t need Pro Tools or my UAD-2 cards anymore. I need to buy something more modern? RIIIIIIIGHT!!! Get outta here Tesse! You are not contributing anything!

All of that can be done is software, easily. These companies keeps plugging cards because it prevents their software from being pirated, at this point in time it offers no additional benefit, in it self.

 

[ScottishCaptain]

Yup, I thought it was pretty funny when I saw it. But then people started thinking it was actually serious... like the OP here for example.

For a much more accurate comparison (if it's to be at all taken seriously) the image portion of the MP5,1 should look more like this:

Image

​

My actual MP system - not including other musical instruments, headphones, microphones, card readers, or the two very large APS battery backup power systems.

He wasn't comparing "Mac Pro + Aux Hardware". He was comparing tower-to-tower. In that regard, I see nothing wrong with his comparison. Two disk drives, four hard drives (either separate or together in a single 4 bay solution), and a bunch of crap that formerly existed as PCI cards, plus a power bar to run everything and a whack of cables.

It doesn't matter how you spin this. The new pro requires significantly more support hardware to do the same thing. I have a setup similar to yours, and that doesn't change the fact that if I replaced my 5,1 with a 6,1 I'd land up with a hell of a lot more cabling and external devices.

It's a prosumer machine. Apple screwed up big time. The least they could have done was to bump the 5,1 specs and offer the new Mac Pro side beside, and give people a chance. Once again, we're being shoved into this wonderful "our way or the highway" mentality, and when Apple does that I'm inclined to flip them the bird and move to a more stable platform.

-SC

 

[Tesselator]

He wasn't comparing "Mac Pro + Aux Hardware". He was comparing tower-to-tower. In that regard, I see nothing wrong with his comparison. Two disk drives, four hard drives (either separate or together in a single 4 bay solution), and a bunch of crap that formerly existed as PCI cards, plus a power bar to run everything and a whack of cables.

It doesn't matter how you spin this. The new pro requires significantly more support hardware to do the same thing. I have a setup similar to yours, and that doesn't change the fact that if I replaced my 5,1 with a 6,1 I'd land up with a hell of a lot more cabling and external devices.

It's a prosumer machine. Apple screwed up big time. The least they could have done was to bump the 5,1 specs and offer the new Mac Pro side beside, and give people a chance. Once again, we're being shoved into this wonderful "our way or the highway" mentality, and when Apple does that I'm inclined to flip them the bird and move to a more stable platform.

-SC

Ya, this is where we don't agree. I actually did the math and there's a total of one extra cable. if I keep the exact same configuration. If however I decide to use the one or two PCIe SSD drives the MP6,1 comes with and opt for no OODs, then it's the same number of cables. If I additionally use USB3 for my Audio interface instead of the two Optical cables I'm using now then it's one less cable all total - or the exact same if I also move the internal HDDs & ODD to a box at the same time.

Nope, math done, more cables == not an issue == one or none.

Now if you just decide to drop Apple for whatever reason I can understand that. I may do the same thing actually -depending on the 6,1 price. But to claim it's because of cables and enclosures just doesn't add up to me. The math isn't there.


PS:
Also he was indeed cheating on his comparisons. 3 individual enclosures, two more separate units for the DVD & BRD? I'm surprised he didn't select units with external PSU bricks just to make it more ridiculous. All fives of those (and MORE!) can fit into a single enclosure for about $100. So yeah, it was either a joke or a totally ridiculous lie.

 

[Tanax]

He wasn't comparing "Mac Pro + Aux Hardware". He was comparing tower-to-tower. In that regard, I see nothing wrong with his comparison. Two disk drives, four hard drives (either separate or together in a single 4 bay solution), and a bunch of crap that formerly existed as PCI cards, plus a power bar to run everything and a whack of cables.

It doesn't matter how you spin this. The new pro requires significantly more support hardware to do the same thing. I have a setup similar to yours, and that doesn't change the fact that if I replaced my 5,1 with a 6,1 I'd land up with a hell of a lot more cabling and external devices.

It's a prosumer machine. Apple screwed up big time. The least they could have done was to bump the 5,1 specs and offer the new Mac Pro side beside, and give people a chance. Once again, we're being shoved into this wonderful "our way or the highway" mentality, and when Apple does that I'm inclined to flip them the bird and move to a more stable platform.

-SC

You only had, what, 3 PCIe slots in the old Mac Pro? So that's 1 TB PCIe chassi - oh wow that will add a lot of bulk! And like you said, harddrives can fit into a single 4-/5-/8-/etc -bay case.

Sure it will cost a bit more now since TB is still premium - but the fact is that it's much better. It'll fit more HDD's than your previous Mac Pro could, it'll fit more PCIe cards than your previous Mac Pro would. On top of that you can tuck away those external devices into a cabinet where you can't hear them, providing you with a cleaner, more flexible, more expandable and a more quiet system.

 

[ApplesAOranges]

All of that can be done is software, easily.

WTF? Please explain.

These companies keeps plugging cards because it prevents their software from being pirated, at this point in time it offers no additional benefit, in it self.

Ever heard of DSP? Ever heard of Pro Tools HD? Or I just should rely on native power (which isn´t close enough to my needs) and I should pirate software, is that what you are saying?

 

[Tesselator]

All of that can be done is software, easily. These companies keeps plugging cards because it prevents their software from being pirated, at this point in time it offers no additional benefit, in it self.

Absolutely! And what functions some older cards did have which might stress the systems slightly can be replaced by USB devices with the same spec - for the same amount or less than what he can sell his old cards for too.

But he seems to want to refuse to believe anyone who disagrees with his infinite wisdom... or should I say infinitely outdated wisdom?

<shrug> so good luck with that.

 

[Arran]

Probably only a matter of time before a third party releases an expansion chassis that the pro sits on (or even in). I'm thinking something disc shaped, so the whole assembly resembles a "mini Cray":

 

[ApplesAOranges]

Absolutely! And what functions some older cards did have which might stress the systems slightly can be replaced by USB devices with the same spec - for the same amount or less than what he can sell his old cards for too.

Total BS.

 

[subsonix]

WTF? Please explain.

Moore's law, and decades of development since Sound Tools.

Ever heard of DSP? Ever heard of Pro Tools HD? Or I just should rely on native power (which isn´t close enough to my needs) and I should pirate software, is that what you are saying?

Yes of course I have heard about DSP and Pro Tools HD, and once they where necessary.

I'm not saying that you should pirate software, but if you take UAD as an example, one benefit of DSP solutions from their end is that the software requires their cards or DSP boxes to run.

 

[Glen Quagmire]

Why not?

It´s absolutely the truth!

The power brick would be on the floor for starters, and the cables would not be coiled up like that. Neither would the peripherals be strewn around the desk randomly.

 

[Tesselator]

Moore's law, and decades of development since Sound Tools.

Yes of course I have heard about DSP and Pro Tools HD, and once they where necessary.

Yeah, and that ended with the advent of the quad-core CPU as most audiophiles will tell. The MP6,1 has 12 cores. Of course the OP will likely reply "Total BS!" as he seems to be stuck in the year 2005. <shrug>

It is kind of entertaining to watch someone have a mental breakdown online though.

 

[spaz8]

It would be border-line retarded to believe that image was at all accurate!

The image is what came to my mind also when it was first shown.

You seem to think people have the cash or desire to buy this new MP and then spend the same amount again on brand new TB enclosures to marginally tidy up all the things, some basic, people put in their MP's.

I'm not sure I'll be replacing my Drobo, 4 internal HD's and 2 DVD drives with TB enclosures on day one.

Apple should probably throw a TB enclosure in with purchase like dell throws in a printer.

 

[Tesselator]

The image is what came to my mind also when it was first shown.

You seem to think people have the cash or desire to buy this new MP and then spend the same amount again on brand new TB enclosures to marginally tidy up all the things, some basic, people put in their MP's.

I'm not sure I'll be replacing my Drobo, 4 internal HD's and 2 DVD drives with TB enclosures on day one.

Why does everyone keep saying TB enclosure. The USB3 enclosures which are all that's needed, start at around $20 (actually!) and for around $100 to $150 you can get all the bays equivalent to the largest PC tower on the DIY market.

What's with all this TB talk? The only non-monitor device TB is needed for is an SSD RAID array or maybe hooking up some legacy (and probably unneeded) PCIe card - OK, video capture maybe then?. Just because TB2 is the fastest connection on the MP6,1 that doesn't mean it has to be used (to the detriment of everyone's billfold) when USB3 does the job just fine - for pretty much everything we seem to be discussing in these threads.

Apple should probably throw a TB enclosure in with purchase like dell throws in a printer.

Heh, that would cool!

 

[xgman]

Why does everyone keep saying TB enclosure. The USB3 enclosures which are all that's needed, start at around $20 (actually!) and for around $100 to $150 you can get all the bays equivalent to the largest PC tower on the DIY market.

USB 3 bus gets saturated much quicker than TB if using multiple devices and multiple drives. Noticeable slow down pretty quick in my actual experience.

and as for the image above, anyone who would pile up their cables in a mess like that probably could care less. It's just silly. Simple, if you don't like it don't get it.