The rumored 12-inch MacBook with Apple Silicon - a 2024 perspective (Speculation Megathread?)

[throAU]

Except that a 12" Macbook was NOT an entry level laptop. It was a premium laptop over the Air.

A smaller laptop is not automatically entry level. In the case of 12", Apple had to engineer some workarounds and used more expensive components to get to a smaller size.

What they can actually do to own the entire entry level market is to release a Macbook SE using the M1 Air chassis but with an M2/M4 and sell it for $750 MSRP permanently.

I think the 12" Macbook would be like the iPhone Mini. A vocal minority kept saying they want it. Apple built it and no one bought it. Granted, I bought one myself and love it. But clearly it's a small market and not worth the effort.

Honestly what Apple could do to own the entry segment is to ship a laptop that has an a17/a18 in it with virtual memory.

Continuing to ship m2 means holding onto an older manufacturing process instead of making smaller cheaper processors on newer tech with similar or good enough performance especially at low thread count (not heavy multitasking).

But otherwise yes. All the m chips are beyond entry level.

 

[jido]

I think the 12" Macbook would be like the iPhone Mini. A vocal minority kept saying they want it. Apple built it and no one bought it. Granted, I bought one myself and love it. But clearly it's a small market and not worth the effort.

I bought the iPhone 13 mini and the 12" MacBook before that.

Would love to run macOS on the iPad Pro 11", even better would be a 12" laptop from Apple.

 

[VitoBotta]

How can a 12" laptop be of practical use really? I find even the 14" is quite small for me and always go with the 16". But 12", really??

 

[Lioness~]

How can a 12" laptop be of practical use really? I find even the 14" is quite small for me and always go with the 16". But 12", really??

It can probably depend on hand and figer sizes.
I had a 12", and even an 11" back in the days. I'm ok with my 13,6" as of now, but if a smaller would be released I would be totally thrilled.

The 13'6 is fine to move around at home, but a bit too heavy to bring on to outside adventures easily.
I tested and it was a clear NO, so it's actually the 1st MBA that I haven't bought a case to.
I tested with an old case to earlier MBA (2018) which fitted in one direction but left a big part of the 2024 MBA naked. But I rather take my iPad mini with me on shorter trips this far.

 

[VitoBotta]

It can probably depend on hand and figer sizes.
I had a 12", and even an 11" back in the days. I'm ok with my 13,6" as of now, but if a smaller would be released I would be totally thrilled.

The 13'6 is fine to move around at home, but a bit too heavy to bring on to outside adventures easily.
I tested and it was a clear NO, so it's actually the 1st MBA that I haven't bought a case to.
I tested with an old case to earlier MBA (2018) which fitted in one direction but left a big part of the 2024 MBA naked. But I rather take my iPad mini with me on shorter trips this far.

My hands are very small for a man but that's not the problem. For me the problem is the screen. With 12" you either need to see stuff too small or use a higher resolution which means much less detail in many things.

 

[Lioness~]

My hands are very small for a man but that's not the problem. For me the problem is the screen. With 12" you either need to see stuff too small or use a higher resolution which means much less detail in many things.

Didn't had that problem what I recall, and when Apple sold them the bezels was way larger than on today's laptops even.

 

[EugW]

It can probably depend on hand and figer sizes.

The keyboard's key spacing for the main keys on the 12" is exactly the same as all the other MacBooks.

My hands are very small for a man but that's not the problem. For me the problem is the screen. With 12" you either need to see stuff too small or use a higher resolution which means much less detail in many things.

For surfing I use one window per screen. Luckily, all the browsers support tabs now. I do the same with Word. For PowerPoint and Excel, esp. the latter, I occasionally use my iPad as a second screen via Sidecar. Detail isn't really an issue because it's a Retina screen.

However, my 12" MacBook is used strictly as a mobile device. I rarely use it at home, since my main home machine for work is a Mac mini with 28" screen, and would have two windows running side by side. In fact, previously I used to run two 27" iMacs beside each other (one acting as an external screen for the other), which would give me up to four windows running side by side, plus other stuff. Using even a 16" MacBook Pro by itself at home would drive me nuts because the screen is too small for my main setup at home.

 

[sublunar]

Honestly what Apple could do to own the entry segment is to ship a laptop that has an a17/a18 in it with virtual memory.

Continuing to ship m2 means holding onto an older manufacturing process instead of making smaller cheaper processors on newer tech with similar or good enough performance especially at low thread count (not heavy multitasking).

But otherwise yes. All the m chips are beyond entry level.

problem with that is that Apple probably don’t want to ship a Mac with A series CPU. Mx is probably their baseline experience.

even though the A18 is thought to have 8gb of ram I’d imagine there’s no scope for more on the package plus probably only a single thunderbolt port based on what a likely iPhone 16 pro will have.

iPad mini would be A useful likely home for an A18, possibly a binned version despite larger body size over an iPhone 16.

M2 cpus are probably produced on a considerable bulk discount with a reasonable yield.

 

[EugW]

I said back in 2019 they could ship a machine with an A series chip (assuming there is sufficient I/O baked in) for the entry level MacBook Air.

Obviously I was wrong, and Apple is sticking only with M series (aka AX) chips. In retrospect I'm thinking the I/O in the A series chips may be insufficient for what they wanted in a MacBook Air, and it was just not worth it to design, manufacture, and release yet another chip variant in between A and M. It makes much more sense to sell binned M chips at entry level.

And now Apple has already moved on to entry level M series chips with 4 Thunderbolt controllers.

 

[Chuckeee]

I said back in 2019 they could ship a machine with an A series chip (assuming there is sufficient I/O baked in) for the entry level MacBook Air.

Obviously I was wrong, and Apple is sticking only with M series (aka AX) chips. In retrospect I'm thinking the I/O in the A series chips may be insufficient for what they wanted in a MacBook Air, and it was just not worth it to design, manufacture, and release yet another chip variant in between A and M. It makes much more sense to sell binned M chips at entry level.

And now Apple has already moved on to entry level M series chips with 4 Thunderbolt controllers.

But Apple did!

The 2020 Apple Developer Transition Kit (DTK) for use by software developers for the tradition to Apple Silicon was a kluge system from Apple. It had 3 internal batteries that only lasted 6 months. It used an A12z processor in a Mac mini case but ran Big Sur (MacOS 11) and Monterey (MacOS 12) pretty well.

• Storage: 512GB
• RAM: 16 GB
• Wireless:
  • Wi-Fi: Dual-band 802.11a/b/g/n/ac
  • Bluetooth Bluetooth 5.0
• Physical Ports:
  • 2 x USB-C, (10 Gbps, DisplayPort-capable)
  • 2 x USB-A ports (5 Gbps)
  • 1 x Gigabit Ethernet
  • 1 x HDMI 2.0 port
  • 1 x AC Power In

Developer Transition Kit (2020)

The Apple Developer Transition Kit (DTK) is an ARM-based Mac released exclusively to registered developers on 22 June 2020 (2020-06-22). The kit takes the shape...

theapplewiki.com

 

[EugW]

The 2020 Apple Developer Transition Kit (DTK) for use by software developers for the tradition to Apple Silicon was a kluge system form Apple. It used an A12z processor in a Mac mini case and ran Big Sur (MacOS 11) and Monterey (MacOS 12).

Developer Transition Kit (2020)

The Apple Developer Transition Kit (DTK) is an ARM-based Mac released exclusively to registered developers on 22 June 2020 (2020-06-22). The kit takes the shape...

theapplewiki.com

A12Z doesn't count since it's only a DTK but as mentioned, that's not a traditional A series chip anyway. It's an AX or in this case AZ chip like I was talking about in that post, which is the precursor to the M series chips. ie. M1 is essentially the equivalent of a souped up A14X.

What I was talking about earlier was having something like an upgraded A14 in a Mac, but which is a step below A14X, because A14X is M1. Basically what I'm saying is it doesn't make sense to have A14 (for iPads), A14+ (for the MacBook Air), and M1 (for the MacBook Pro). Instead what Apple did was sell A14 (for iPads), M1 (for the MacBook Pro), and binned M1 (missing a GPU core for the MacBook Air). In retrospect, the latter makes a lot more sense.

 

[sublunar]

The 2020 Apple Developer Transition Kit (DTK) for use by software developers for the tradition to Apple Silicon was a kluge system form Apple. It used an A12z processor in a Mac mini case and ran Big Sur (MacOS 11) and Monterey (MacOS 12).

Developer Transition Kit (2020)

The Apple Developer Transition Kit (DTK) is an ARM-based Mac released exclusively to registered developers on 22 June 2020 (2020-06-22). The kit takes the shape...

theapplewiki.com

As @EugW already just said: A12z being something of a precursor to M1, and notably the connectivity was just 2 USB-C 10Gbps and 2 USB-A 5Gbps ports. That kind of bandwidth could be run by a single Thunderbolt port, impressive since the iPad Pro 2020 was still a single USB-C at 10Gbps if I recall.

The other interesting thing is they managed to put 16Gb of RAM on it whereas the similar iPad Pro 2020 had 6Gb of RAM. I guess in theory an A series chip could manage a bigger ram capacity with the right chips but would this would mean a new custom package/motherboard?

I still stand by my theory that Apple wouldn't want to put MacOS on an A series chip, especially if it maxes out at 8Gb RAM but I'll be fascinated to see what the next iPad mini comes with. A18 makes the most sense, even if down clocked and 1 GPU fewer binned variant. And if they can make that platform a 'micro laptop' with a keyboard case would people be complaining?

In fact, you'd expect a single 10Gbps USB-C with the next iPad mini but Thunderbolt would be a statement for the iPad mini.

Would Apple forecast any useful sales from a 12" MacBook with a binned M4 chip and (say) 2 Thunderbolt ports? Only thing I would think of is if they made it a Pro rather than an Air and stuck a Tandem OLED screen from 13" iPad on it.

 

[Chuckeee]

As @EugW already just said: A12z being something of a precursor to M1, and notably the connectivity was just 2 USB-C 10Gbps and 2 USB-A 5Gbps ports. That kind of bandwidth could be run by a single Thunderbolt port, impressive since the iPad Pro 2020 was still a single USB-C at 10Gbps if I recall.

The other interesting thing is they managed to put 16Gb of RAM on it whereas the similar iPad Pro 2020 had 6Gb of RAM. I guess in theory an A series chip could manage a bigger ram capacity with the right chips but would this would mean a new custom package/motherboard?

I still stand by my theory that Apple wouldn't want to put MacOS on an A series chip, especially if it maxes out at 8Gb RAM but I'll be fascinated to see what the next iPad mini comes with. A18 makes the most sense, even if down clocked and 1 GPU fewer binned variant. And if they can make that platform a 'micro laptop' with a keyboard case would people be complaining?

In fact, you'd expect a single 10Gbps USB-C with the next iPad mini but Thunderbolt would be a statement for the iPad mini.

I still think it is a case the Apple doesn’t want to, not that it it cannot be done. More along the idea of running MacOS on a MacTV.

 

[sublunar]

I still think it is a case the Apple doesn’t want to, not that it it cannot be done. More along the idea of running MacOS on a MacTV.

Well, let's see how mature Linux on M1 becomes - that could be the future for a few older ARM machines as they age out of official Apple Support - and a future for used buyers of older Apple gear.

 

[throAU]

problem with that is that Apple probably don’t want to ship a Mac with A series CPU. Mx is probably their baseline experience.

Agreed. I don't think they WILL do it, but they certainly COULD if they actually wanted to target that market.

 

[MrGunny94]

If they do reduce the weight and physical size of the MacBook Air come 2025 (like they did with the iPad) we could have a smaller 13"...

 

[seek3r]

Well, let's see how mature Linux on M1 becomes - that could be the future for a few older ARM machines as they age out of official Apple Support - and a future for used buyers of older Apple gear.

I’ve got Asahi permanently running on my m1 mini right now, been daily driving it for a while, only major thing it’s really missing at this point is thunderbolt support

 

[LaterWolf]

How did this thread revive itself while i was on vacation lol

I said back in 2019 they could ship a machine with an A series chip (assuming there is sufficient I/O baked in) for the entry level MacBook Air.

Obviously I was wrong, and Apple is sticking only with M series (aka AX) chips. In retrospect I'm thinking the I/O in the A series chips may be insufficient for what they wanted in a MacBook Air, and it was just not worth it to design, manufacture, and release yet another chip variant in between A and M. It makes much more sense to sell binned M chips at entry level.

And now Apple has already moved on to entry level M series chips with 4 Thunderbolt controllers.

It has been proven that an a chip (a12z) can run macOS, let alone the newer and more powerful chips found in iPhones today.

 

[EugW]

It has been proven that an a chip (a12z) can run macOS, let alone the newer and more powerful chips found in iPhones today.

A12Z isn't the same as iPhone A chips. It's the precursor to M1. M1 is essentially the A14X people were predicting before M1 came out.

Remember, none of the X/Z chips have ever been in the iPhone, only iPads.

 

[Populus]

A12Z isn't the same as iPhone A chips. It's the precursor to M1. M1 is essentially the A14X people were predicting before M1 came out.

Remember, none of the X/Z chips have ever been in the iPhone, only iPads.

Exactly. The A12X or A12Z found on the Mac mini Dev Kit was like an M0 SoC for developers to test the waters making software for an ARM macOS computer.

 

[sublunar]

A12Z isn't the same as iPhone A chips. It's the precursor to M1. M1 is essentially the A14X people were predicting before M1 came out.

Remember, none of the X/Z chips have ever been in the iPhone, only iPads.

I was going to write something to the same effect but you beat me to it.

The advantage an a18 would have in an 12 inch MacBook would be lower power consumption which allows for a smaller form factor with acceptable battery life but I suspect apple will only want m class CPUs in macs for various performance and marketing reasons.

 

[EugW]

I was going to write something to the same effect but you beat me to it.

The advantage an a18 would have in an 12 inch MacBook would be lower power consumption which allows for a smaller form factor with acceptable battery life but I suspect apple will only want m class CPUs in macs for various performance and marketing reasons.

And other things like I/O support.

 

[sublunar]

And other things like I/O support.

Absolutely that, only 1 Thunderbolt port really isn't going to fly for a new MacBook now.

 

[LaterWolf]

Absolutely that, only 1 Thunderbolt port really isn't going to fly for a new MacBook now.

Charging, check
Anything else...

 

[JiggyJaggy]

Charging, check
Anything else...

Exactly,. People aren't getting what a machine like this is all about. Pure portability. It is not the kind of machine you need to plug 10 devices in via usb-c. At most you would either charge it via usb-c or plug it into a usb-c monitor which charges it simultaneously in any case. I think I can recall charging my phone off it once in all the years I had had mine.