The sad state of screen resolution in Windows PC laptops

[dmr727]

Incorrect.

Low DPI is independent of screen resolution. They are two separate measurements.

Fair enough - I should have specified a screen size - but I'm guessing you understood the point I was trying to make.

 

[grmlin]

It's to general to be misleading. the apple way. Baffle with bullS(&T, not with facts.

No. It’s a term you can rely on. If they say the display is retina you know the dpi is high enough to have a perfectly sharp image.

4K does not help here. It’s a resolution, which can mean a lot of things depending on the screen size and viewing distance

 

[skaertus]

No. It’s a term you can rely on. If they say the display is retina you know the dpi is high enough to have a perfectly sharp image.

4K does not help here. It’s a resolution, which can mean a lot of things depending on the screen size and viewing distance

It is a term you can rely on because it is being used by Apple. And Apple is (supposedly) reliable.

Should any third party use it, you would still have to check the resolution and actual pixel density. I suppose many manufacturers would use "retina" to identify 13.3-inch laptops with a 1080p resolution, stating that it is sharp enough for most people.

 

[Steve Adams]

What is RETINA? It's a term, nothing more. merely a term to sucker in the uneducated.

What specs make a retina display? humor us. It's a nothing term. it's just apple bull.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, but even now, people want 4k, especally since apple went with the 16" form factor. Like I said, 4k is overkill for laptop form factors, but that's just my opinion btw, as many know, I went with a 4k but I bought into the marketing hype but comparing my 4k ThinkPad and 1080P Razer - I'm not really noticing a huge difference. Yes, the Thinkpad has some crisper text and what not, but overall, I'd say its not noticeable. I prefer using my Razer, as its my go to machine when I'm mobile

I have a nice HP 1080p monitor sitting next to a very nice LG 4K HDR monitor. Both 27 inches. And while the LG monitor is "better" than the HP, I can count the number of times on one hand, that I kicked the resolution up to 4K. Youtube HDR 4K videos are stunning, but my use case is as daily driver for work and doesn't really make my workflow better at 4K. And other than being able to show off a 4K hdr youtube video, I tend to watch videos on the the HP monitor.

Hence I keep the resolution to full HD. While it might be great for bragging rights to have a 4k display on a laptop, imo, unless there was no difference in battery life to a 1080 model, I believe it's a waste.

As I said, all in my opinion.

 

[BigPotatoLobbyist]

To be honest, I actually sort of like the way Windows scales things, and miss it even with a 2560 display I have now. Ideally I could just have both. 150% looks fine

 

[grmlin]

I had so many problems with Macs in the past that I switched to Windows last year. Still, if you can't acknowledge that you can rely on the term "retina" as a sign that you'll get a sharp display made for this specific screen size, I don't know what to say anymore 🤷‍♂️

Apple seems to be the only company that understood that the resolution of TVs isn't necessarily the right resolution for a laptop/pc. I don't know why that is, but reading your responses here gives me an idea

 

[Steve Adams]

I had so many problems with Macs in the past that I switched to Windows last year. Still, if you can't acknowledge that you can rely on the term "retina" as a sign that you'll get a sharp display made for this specific screen size, I don't know what to say anymore 🤷‍♂️

Apple seems to be the only company that understood that the resolution of TVs isn't necessarily the right resolution for a laptop/pc. I don't know why that is, but reading your responses here gives me an idea

It has nothing to do with anything other than it's marketing bull which you claim 4k etc is. Which they are NOT. simple. 4k is a spec. EVEN Apple use it with their new 4.5K "RETINA" imac screen or their 5K old imac screen. so your claims are false. that is all. Claiming 4k blah blah blah is a marketing gimmick? No, RETINA is a marketing gimmick. Even apple admits this by using 4k, 4.5k, 5k in their monitor specs. I don't rely on any claims that any manufacturer puts out. Retina or otherwise.

 

[grmlin]

Jo, understood. 4k is a spec, true. Retina is not. Still does not change my opinion at all about PC manufactures and screens at all. Apple build screens with the correct resolution, everybody else does not. Well, Microsoft kind of does in their surface line, but I think that's about it.

 

[Steve Adams]

Jo, understood. 4k is a spec, true. Retina is not. Still does not change my opinion at all about PC manufactures and screens at all. Apple build screens with the correct resolution, everybody else does not. Well, Microsoft kind of does in their surface line, but I think that's about it.

Exactly. You came in and claimed 4k and what not was marketing jargon, and not a spec, and retina was a "spec" which is completely opposite. I agree that apple has great displays. However, my dell even at 1080 is actually really good, sharp and vibrant. As are my 2 desktop monitors.

 

[grmlin]

You still don’t get what I’m talking about. But that’s okay. If you are happy with low dpi displays I can’t argue with that. I like my text crisp and sharp, and retina screens are the reason for that lol

 

[skaertus]

Exactly. You came in and claimed 4k and what not was marketing jargon, and not a spec, and retina was a "spec" which is completely opposite. I agree that apple has great displays. However, my dell even at 1080 is actually really good, sharp and vibrant. As are my 2 desktop monitors.

This is one of the reasons why I usually prefer to look at the actual display resolution instead of marketing terms such as "retina".

Apple's use of "Retina Display" is just fine. All Apple "Retina Displays" so far had an acceptable pixel density, and I was not able to distinguish individual pixels. But I would not trust other manufacturers.

For instance, you mentioned that your Dell is sharp at 1080p. Based on that sort of reasoning, Dell could well market a 1080p screen as being "retina". Perhaps Dell would not do it, but I am pretty sure that many manufacturers or stores would announce 1080p laptops as being "incredibly sharp" or "retina-like". But this is a matter of opinion. Unless you are talking about a smartphone, I think 1080p does not provide enough pixel density to be considered "retina".

So, while, based on my personal experience, I acknowledge Apple's use of "Retina Display" as accurate to indicate sufficient pixel density for sharpness, I would not trust the use of any such term by any other manufacturer (unless such use is thoroughly tested). This is why the use of terms such as 4K is useful for non-Apple products.

 

[skaertus]

Jo, understood. 4k is a spec, true. Retina is not. Still does not change my opinion at all about PC manufactures and screens at all. Apple build screens with the correct resolution, everybody else does not. Well, Microsoft kind of does in their surface line, but I think that's about it.

I wonder what a "correct resolution" is. For me, a 13.3-inch screen should have to be at least 2560x1440. And a 15.6-inch screen should be around 3200x1800.

But that may vary. Dell once used 3200x1800 for its XPS line and then started to use 3840x2160. Then, it shifted to a 16:10 format, by the time the resolution turned into 3840x2400. Now there are OLED screens with a 3456x2160 resolution.

I suppose 3200x1800 was sharp enough for both the 13 and 15-inch models and Dell could have kept that to save battery life. Perhaps 4K could be more useful in the 17-inch model. But opinions may vary.

 

[grmlin]

I wonder what a "correct resolution" is. For me, a 13.3-inch screen should have to be at least 2560x1440. And a 15.6-inch screen should be around 3200x1800.

But that may vary. Dell once used 3200x1800 for its XPS line and then started to use 3840x2160. Then, it shifted to a 16:10 format, by the time the resolution turned into 3840x2400. Now there are OLED screens with a 3456x2160 resolution.

I suppose 3200x1800 was sharp enough for both the 13 and 15-inch models and Dell could have kept that to save battery life. Perhaps 4K could be more useful in the 17-inch model. But opinions may vary.

UI scaling works best and is most performant when it's integer based. So two times the size for example. Even on MacOS performance takes quite the hit when you scale your screen fractionally. Sharpness also suffers, but not everybody notices that.
That's why the iMac 27" has a 5k screen and the smaller "old" one was 21" and not 24". Apple didn't have a fitting 24" screen, now they have. A 27" 4K screens dpi isn't high enough to be perfectly sharp.

MacBooks need a resolution bump though, it would be ideal to get the retina version of the old 1680x1050 screens. So now you either live with less real estate or a fractionally scaled ui.

I currently work with a 15" 4K OLED screen in my laptop, and while it's of course fantastic, 1080p is just too small on 15" imo and the screen not being 16:10 isn't great either. But that's a different story. It gets even worse when you look at the smaller 13" laptops that come with a 4K 16:9 screen. It's cool for a spec cheat and ads in retail, but doesn't make much sense.

 

[Steve Adams]

This is one of the reasons why I usually prefer to look at the actual display resolution instead of marketing terms such as "retina".

Apple's use of "Retina Display" is just fine. All Apple "Retina Displays" so far had an acceptable pixel density, and I was not able to distinguish individual pixels. But I would not trust other manufacturers.

For instance, you mentioned that your Dell is sharp at 1080p. Based on that sort of reasoning, Dell could well market a 1080p screen as being "retina". Perhaps Dell would not do it, but I am pretty sure that many manufacturers or stores would announce 1080p laptops as being "incredibly sharp" or "retina-like". But this is a matter of opinion. Unless you are talking about a smartphone, I think 1080p does not provide enough pixel density to be considered "retina".

So, while, based on my personal experience, I acknowledge Apple's use of "Retina Display" as accurate to indicate sufficient pixel density for sharpness, I would not trust the use of any such term by any other manufacturer (unless such use is thoroughly tested). This is why the use of terms such as 4K is useful for non-Apple products.

Dell would not use the term retina as it is an apple marketing hook for the uneducated.

 

[skaertus]

Dell would not use the term retina as it is an apple marketing hook for the uneducated.

Yes, definitely Dell would not be able to use it (maybe it is even trademarked). But Dell or any other manufacturer could craft its own specific term with similar meaning.

 

[grmlin]

Yes, definitely Dell would not be able to use it (maybe it is even trademarked). But Dell or any other manufacturer could craft its own specific term with similar meaning.

They prefer to put Dolby Atmos labels etc. on their laptops instead 😂 (mine has one of these and sounds hilariously bad)

 

[MBAir2010]

Dell just uses great displays on the XPS line.
Superior screen: The latest Corning® Gorilla® Glass 6 is strong, as well as impact and scratch resistance."
and

Spoiler: dell explanation of their screen

Display like no other:

Spoiler: dell explanation of their screen

Take full advantage of HDR content’s superior dynamic range with Dolby Vision™, which can deliver colors never before seen on SDR PC displays. Dolby Vision™ content can deliver highlights that are up to 40 times brighter, and blacks that are up to 10 times darker. Plus, the stunning VESA certified DisplayHDR 400 display on the optional 4K+ panel enables over 16 million colors that have more depth and dimension than ever before.

See every detail: The optional 4K Ultra HD+ (3840 x 2400) touch display offers pinpoint accuracy for all of your computing needs. See the detail of every pixel in photos without needing to zoom in or see more content while browsing the web.

Color that pops: Equipped with 100% sRGB and 90% DCI P3 color gamut, your screen delivers saturated colors while a 1500:1 contrast ratio allows you to see the brightest brights and darkest darks. And 500-nit brightness provides more clarity in bright light like outdoors, while a 0.65% anti-reflective coating cuts the glare of a glossy screen.

Deep contrast: Get immersed in your content, movies and games with vivid, true-to-life color on the new 3.5k (3456 x 2160) OLED display option. Perfect black provides phenomenal contrast ratio (100,000:1) so content comes alive with breathtaking detail especially in dark areas. Wide color gamut (100% DCI-P3) is truer to life, great for content consumption.

Easy on the eyes: Eyesafe® intelligently manages light energy at the source – selectively reducing harmful blue light and dispersing it across the light spectrum. Our unique solution combines RGB hardware and software adjustments to more effectively protect against blue light, while maintaining vivid color integrity. Dell is the first to offer this integrated solution.

Apple's description of their retina screen
With the brilliant Retina display, images take on an incredible level of detail and realism. Text is sharp and clear. Bright LED backlighting delivers deep blacks and bright whites. P3 wide color brings even more vibrant greens and reds than sRGB. And every MacBook Pro features True Tone technology, so the white balance automatically adjusts to match the color temperature of the light around you — for a more natural viewing experience.

 

[skaertus]

Dell just uses great displays on the XPS line.
Superior screen: The latest Corning® Gorilla® Glass 6 is strong, as well as impact and scratch resistance."
and

Spoiler: dell explanation of their screen

Display like no other:

Spoiler: dell explanation of their screen

Take full advantage of HDR content’s superior dynamic range with Dolby Vision™, which can deliver colors never before seen on SDR PC displays. Dolby Vision™ content can deliver highlights that are up to 40 times brighter, and blacks that are up to 10 times darker. Plus, the stunning VESA certified DisplayHDR 400 display on the optional 4K+ panel enables over 16 million colors that have more depth and dimension than ever before.

See every detail: The optional 4K Ultra HD+ (3840 x 2400) touch display offers pinpoint accuracy for all of your computing needs. See the detail of every pixel in photos without needing to zoom in or see more content while browsing the web.

Color that pops: Equipped with 100% sRGB and 90% DCI P3 color gamut, your screen delivers saturated colors while a 1500:1 contrast ratio allows you to see the brightest brights and darkest darks. And 500-nit brightness provides more clarity in bright light like outdoors, while a 0.65% anti-reflective coating cuts the glare of a glossy screen.

Deep contrast: Get immersed in your content, movies and games with vivid, true-to-life color on the new 3.5k (3456 x 2160) OLED display option. Perfect black provides phenomenal contrast ratio (100,000:1) so content comes alive with breathtaking detail especially in dark areas. Wide color gamut (100% DCI-P3) is truer to life, great for content consumption.

Easy on the eyes: Eyesafe® intelligently manages light energy at the source – selectively reducing harmful blue light and dispersing it across the light spectrum. Our unique solution combines RGB hardware and software adjustments to more effectively protect against blue light, while maintaining vivid color integrity. Dell is the first to offer this integrated solution.

Apple's description of their retina screen
With the brilliant Retina display, images take on an incredible level of detail and realism. Text is sharp and clear. Bright LED backlighting delivers deep blacks and bright whites. P3 wide color brings even more vibrant greens and reds than sRGB. And every MacBook Pro features True Tone technology, so the white balance automatically adjusts to match the color temperature of the light around you — for a more natural viewing experience.

Yes, Dell's displays are good.

I have an XPS 9550 with a 3840x2160 display, and it looks great.

I would bring two issues only:

• The screen is reflexive. The screen on Macs is far less reflexive while keeping the colors vivid.
• The colors are too saturated. This makes the images look great and vibrant. But colors are inaccurate.

I am not sure if Dell was able to address these issues, but I certainly noticed them.

 

[Steve Adams]

As a photographer and videographer, I use a spider for color correction. Works really good.

 

[Steve Adams]

They prefer to put Dolby Atmos labels etc. on their laptops instead 😂 (mine has one of these and sounds hilariously bad)

This is subjective, since I think every notebook sounds like garbage. I have PSB speakers everywhere in my home. I have a powered set for my desk with two powered speakers and an 8" subwoofer. But yes, the atmos sticker is laughable.

 

[fncd]

4k on a 15" inch laptop (never mind a 13") is a waste. The display is too small for such a high resolution - you're wanting to have even more?

Stop! Please stop. More pixels = more horsepower to drive them = more heat. I don't need any more reasons for the fans on my 2020 Blade OLED to spin up.

 

[Falhófnir]

What is RETINA? It's a term, nothing more. merely a term to sucker in the uneducated.

What specs make a retina display? humor us. It's a nothing term. it's just apple bull.

Retina specifically refers to the reverse-pixel binning technique used to make the screens look sharper. That each display 'point' (one pixel on a non retina display) is shown across 4 pixels (@2x retina) or 9 pixels (@3x retina) is what it means. With the iPhone 4 marketing it was simplified to just meaning pixels so small you can't see them at a normal viewing distance, but the above is the proper technical meaning behind Retina display tech.

 

[Steve Adams]

Retina specifically refers to the reverse-pixel binning technique used to make the screens look sharper. That each display 'point' (one pixel on a non retina display) is shown across 4 pixels (@2x retina) or 9 pixels (@3x retina) is what it means. With the iPhone 4 marketing it was simplified to just meaning pixels so small you can't see them at a normal viewing distance, but the above is the proper technical meaning behind Retina display tech.

OMG. retina is an apple marketing term. you drank the koolaid something fierce if you believe what you just typed.

 

[Falhófnir]

OMG. retina is an apple marketing term. you drank the koolaid something fierce if you believe what you just typed.

Sure, it's a marketing term, but what I typed was an explanation of what qualifies a screen to be what Apple markets as 'retina'.