The thrill of Apple silicon is already gone

[Rafterman]

Apple does not use Arm chip designs, they use the IPA which is more like the chip’s API. It is not the circuitry design. Of course there is some ancestral relationship but Apple has been doing their own chip design for more than a decade.

Apple designs their own CPU cores, but pays the licensing fees to ARM for the instruction set.

 

[Tagbert]

Apple designs their own CPU cores, but pays the licensing fees to ARM for the instruction set.

That is the Arm IPA it’s sort of the hardware equivalent of an API.

 

[bcortens]

That is the Arm IPA it’s sort of the hardware equivalent of an API.

Do you mean ISA? Instruction Set Architecture? What does the P stand for?

 

[bradl]

Do you mean ISA? Instruction Set Architecture? What does the P stand for?

Simple. After Macs, Apple's next venture is beer.

BL.

 

[Tagbert]

Do you mean ISA? Instruction Set Architecture? What does the P stand for?

D’oh. Not enough sleep last night. It is ISA. IPA would be much more hoppy. 😂

 

[leman]

I think you’re thinking of their GPUs or neural net, at least to some extent, their processor component of the SoC is very much an implementation of the ARM ISA and uses ARM designs as the base. The M2/A15 series for ex are ARMv8.5-A processors.

Yiu are confusing the specification and the implementation. ARMv8.5 defines a set of rules, protocols, and features a processor has to adhere to. But the implementation is Apples own.

This confusion is common because ARM makes multiple things. They define the specification (normative document) and they also design reference hardware that implements this specification. Apple uses ARM’s specification but not the reference implementation. And to be more precise, they don’t even implement the specification fully: there are notable differences in how Apple CPUs handle low-level stuff (like custom interrupts etc.)

 

[seek3r]

Yiu are confusing the specification and the implementation. ARMv8.5 defines a set of rules, protocols, and features a processor has to adhere to. But the implementation is Apples own.

This confusion is common because ARM makes multiple things. They define the specification (normative document) and they also design reference hardware that implements this specification. Apple uses ARM’s specification but not the reference implementation. And to be more precise, they don’t even implement the specification fully: there are notable differences in how Apple CPUs handle low-level stuff (like custom interrupts etc.)

I guess it really comes down to how cleanroom something has to be to not be considered using the precursor. WINE is a re-implementation of the windows API, in much the same way that Apple’s CPU’s are a reimplementation of the ARM ISA. For me though the difference is that Apple started with ARM designs and there’s still some ARM design DNA left in CPUs, albeit likely very very little.

But I’ll concede the point that practically speaking they’re different CPUs that simply expose (most of) the ISA

 

[dandeco]

I know it's been six months since the last reply here, but I want to add that the Intel to Apple Silicon transition has also been great for the electronics recycling/reselling company I work for, as school districts and other educational institutions upgrade to Apple Silicon Macs and send us their older Intel ones to be recycled or refurbished and resold (depending on the physical and operational condition they're in).

A case in question; one of the public school districts in this part of the state assigns MacBook Airs to teachers. Some time back, the district upgraded the teachers to M1 MacBook Airs and sent us their old Intel Airs to be recycled or resold, a huge batch of 2nd-generation MacBook Airs, both 11" and 13" versions (the 11" versions are pictured here), different models from 2010 to 2017 (here an Early 2014 and two Early 2015 Airs are being wiped and having the Mac OS reinstalled).

Heck, last month we even got some M1 MacBook Airs with broken LCDs from said school district! But they're still enrolled in the remote management system, so we have to send the district their serial numbers before we can either fully recycle them or resell them online as "for parts only" computers.

We've also gotten a lot of Mac Minis from that same school district, mostly 2014 and 2018 models and a few 2010-12 Minis. I'm positively sure the schools replaced them with M1 or M2 Mac Minis (heck, one time last year we even got some 2012 Mac Minis in boxes for M1 Minis, implying they came from somewhere that upgraded and sent us the old Minis in the boxes the new ones came in!)

 

[MajorFubar]

Yeah everything's all about perspective. Even something like the sinking of the Titanic: it was a horrendous tragedy to humans, but for the lobsters in the scullery it was a miracle.

 

[MRMSFC]

Yeah everything's all about perspective. Even something like the sinking of the Titanic: it was a horrendous tragedy to humans, but for the lobsters in the scullery it was a miracle.

I’m pretty sure it was a good time for one James Cameron too

 

[Admiral]

Companies generally don't drop/increase prices immediately following exchange rate changes. Apple isn't going to change prices every day.

Apples sets prices in local currencies based on the exchange rate at the time of release, and, barring catastrophic exchange-rate moves, maintains the price throughout the market cycle of the product. When a new product is introduced to replace a given model, at that time the price will be fixed according to the current exchange rate.

 

[senttoschool]

Apples sets prices in local currencies based on the exchange rate at the time of release, and, barring catastrophic exchange-rate moves, maintains the price throughout the market cycle of the product. When a new product is introduced to replace a given model, at that time the price will be fixed according to the current exchange rate.

So what I said.

 

[Admiral]

So what I said.

Yes, what you said, with a little more granularity to the explanation of why. The expectation some people have that prices for manufactured goods should vary on a daily basis like commodities such as gold, orange juice, or petrol is pretty immature.

 

[sunny5]

It's gone after A17 Pro came out to be worse than Qualcomm Snapdragon 8 gen 2.

 

[Kung]

Apple does not use Arm chip designs, they use the IPA which is more like the chip’s API. It is not the circuitry design. Of course there is some ancestral relationship but Apple has been doing their own chip design for more than a decade.

Maybe this explains why their FineWoven design is so bad. Too much IPA.

 

[Gudi]

Yes, what you said, with a little more granularity to the explanation of why. The expectation some people have that prices for manufactured goods should vary on a daily basis like commodities such as gold, orange juice, or petrol is pretty immature.

No, the expectation is very reasonable. But Apple wants to communicate the image of a luxury brand. And perceived price stability in the local currency helps to create the feeling their products are actually worth that much and that you don’t make a mistake ordering them on launch day.

 

[JouniS]

No, the expectation is very reasonable. But Apple wants to communicate the image of a luxury brand. And perceived price stability in the local currency helps to create the feeling their products are actually worth that much and that you don’t make a mistake ordering them on launch day.

Apple is a premium mass market brand, not a luxury brand. True luxury brands would not want the kind of market share Apple has, because it cheapens the brand. And they definitely would not want to see their products become the most popular choice for teenagers and college students.