I am hoping thy will keep the MP line but I would just like to know, one way or the other, so I can decide whether to buy another MP -- even if not updated in 2012.
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The war between professionals and consumers
- Thread starter ApplesAOranges
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Remonds me of the Cube, which also has not been discontinued, but instead it's production is currently suspended indefinitely...
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...and in the long run Nokia blew it big time!Apparently there were a lot of upset farmers in Finland when Nokia started making mobile phones and stopped making wellies (wellingtons in case you yanks think I might be saying something rude
Did you hear the McRib is making a comeback?
Seriously though ... what do you do computer wise that a top notch Mac Pro does not get the job done for you?
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All this fuss because intel haven't made a new Xeon. Sheesh
All this fuss because intel haven't made a new Xeon. Sheesh
From 1998 to 2004 I had to purchase the fastest laptops that I could lay my hands on, regardless of price. I routinely upgraded every 8 - 10 months when a faster machine became available.
I moved to Apple in July because of deteriorating eyesight (requiring a large screen) and worsening arthritis (requiring a different keyboard) and bought the 2010 Mac mini. It was marginal meeting requirements. I made a small change to my software and suddenly it was not powerfull enough. I think the base Mac mini will be sufficient however opted for the i5 2.5 Ghz with GPU. It is running hotter than I consider acceptable for long term reliability so am now considering moving either to the base or the server with a SSD.
However the moral of the story is that today I can do with a pretty low spec'd computer which is a fraction of the price I paid 5+ years ago.
And you know what? When I started out in the computer industry I worked for a while on the second most powerfull computer in Europe. And today's PC is more powerfull than that $ 40 M mainframe....
I don't really know how Apple can win this one. A "Mac Pro" refresh without the appropriate chips several months ago, just so the revision date can be slightly newer and yet another expansion port added (one I'll remind everyone there are a pretty sparse number of peripherals for) is hardly doing Good Things (tm) for the Pro market.
Putting consumer level SandyBridge chips in them would also probably have been greeted with "And thus ends true Pro computers from Apple".
Really, I don't think they could have made folks happy.
Putting consumer level SandyBridge chips in them would also probably have been greeted with "And thus ends true Pro computers from Apple".
Really, I don't think they could have made folks happy.
Umm .. no they don't
. They sell iPad/iPhone much much more than a MacPro. Even if Apple only have iOS devices to sell, it'll still selling out like hot cakes. In fact Apple dont even need the MacPro anymore. So, you should be grateful that now Apple still even have them in stock.They even start to ditch iMac too, not because they dont have spec bump (apparaently they still have although in a much slower pace), but many Apple Store put iMac, and MacPro on a far side of the store.
You know why? It's because Apple dont feel the need of sell/promote them anymore. It's not something they want to sell most. Not today, when people love mobile device more. You dont have to like it, but you're not Tim, are you?
That should be obvious for a "professional" like you.
I'm still hoping they refresh the Mac Pro in 2012. I would hate to see them drop it. To me a flagship product doesn't have to sell the most it's just the best product you can produce regardless of cost. I liken it to the Canon DSLR's I shoot. The 1D series isn't the best selling by a long shot but it's the best camera body that Canon makes and designed with pro's in mind. I don't think Canon would ever think of abandoning the Pro market. Ever.
This sums it up very well.
It's an interesting detail that iOS developers do their work for the iPHone on a Mac Pro and not on an iMac.
Ditching the Mac Pro would not bring any advantage to Apple, but, on a longer term, a lot of disadvantage. So I don't think it will happen.
But Apple is riding high right now and have gained a 90's Microsoft sized ego (and rightfully so because of their profits and market surge) and they could easily drop everything but the iMac/portables and just say "deal with it". Why? because the app developers make their money on the iOS platform and that isn't looking to change anytime soon so devs won't just give up on a sure-thing because they don't have a Mac Pro.
That said I will be a sad panda if they do (which is looking more and more likely) because I don't want an iMac (I hate the glossy screen) which leaves me with a MBP + dongles + My NEC display + tons of wires/external drives if I ever want to replace my 2009 MP (which has a 4 drive RAID)... or just go back to building Winboxes for 1/3 the $$$.
I always thought Apple never really were targeting the high end professional market?
What they did do was empower those who needed professional results by providing low cost software (in comparison to the five figure sums that used to be charged) and competitively priced hardware which didn't require IT support staff to run.
One man bands, small 2-3 man teams in most industries are fully catered for. They keep giving us new great stuff all the the time. We got thunderbolt this year - try and tell me that was soley intended for consumers...
From Apple's site:
Thunderbolt is a revolutionary I/O technology that supports high-resolution displays and high-performance data devices through a single, compact port. It sets new standards for speed, flexibility, and simplicity.
Most consumers don't even know what "I/O technology" means!
If Apple drops the macpro it will be because they believe the type of professionals they are catering to will have powerful enough machines with the iMac and macbook pro to do their work on.
That tiny percentage of people who need the 100 cores, 4 digit priced graphics cards etc in the future will probably get the message and move onto Linux/Windows where every desire is fully catered for.
What they did do was empower those who needed professional results by providing low cost software (in comparison to the five figure sums that used to be charged) and competitively priced hardware which didn't require IT support staff to run.
One man bands, small 2-3 man teams in most industries are fully catered for. They keep giving us new great stuff all the the time. We got thunderbolt this year - try and tell me that was soley intended for consumers...
From Apple's site:
Thunderbolt is a revolutionary I/O technology that supports high-resolution displays and high-performance data devices through a single, compact port. It sets new standards for speed, flexibility, and simplicity.
Most consumers don't even know what "I/O technology" means!
If Apple drops the macpro it will be because they believe the type of professionals they are catering to will have powerful enough machines with the iMac and macbook pro to do their work on.
That tiny percentage of people who need the 100 cores, 4 digit priced graphics cards etc in the future will probably get the message and move onto Linux/Windows where every desire is fully catered for.
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That would be a fine argument if they can put better graphics, replaceable hard drive, and a matte screen on the iMac. I don't think the Mac Pro "going away" is a problem. Not having nice computers for pros is the problem. An iMac with a bit more flexibility and options would be fine if that was their "vision" IMO.
Ah well, I actually enjoy my iMac aside from the glossy screen.
I agree, what people should be fighting for is an iMac with a few more options rather than if a mac pro should stay or not.
Actually it would be very interesting to see the impact of a 27inch Matte iMac (Ivy Bridge, lower cost thunderbolt raid, 64GB max ram and a high end desktop card) on the sales of the mac pro.
Hubris is exactly my concern right now.
Making money gives people a similar impact as taking cocaine (fact, not kidding). Let's hope this won't make junkies out of all of Apple's leadership
There's a lot to do: the current iMac design get's too hot and needs to be adapted to all that power. And it needs a matte screen. Which doesn't mean consumers wouldn't like it. You could make an all-black iMac with a matte screen. A stealth design.
The Mac Pro is so needed if you need more hard drives and don't want dozens of cables and powerbricks littering your computer area.
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I know a lot of people who would like that.
At the same time, i know a lot of people who want to buy a Mac Pro, but are waiting for a refresh. Personally, I would not mind a Mac Pro with a slightly smaller form factor.
I just upgraded PS CS3 to CS5 on the W7 side of my Mac Pro. Having used CS5 for OS X since it shipped I can say the following. While initially not as pretty looking as on the Mac UI the Windows versions is a little easier to use due to some things the Windows UI does better and operates with way less delay (beachballing). Office 2010 is mostly easier to use than Office 2011. There are a couple of nice Outlook things on a Mac.
If I was still using my computer for professional photography I would be spending far more time in W7 than in Lion. Besides PS and Office, working with existing printers and printing CD labels is easier under Windows.
Even though it's a great machine and I love mine maybe the Mac Pro isn't all that much of a "must have" business machine anymore.
If I was still using my computer for professional photography I would be spending far more time in W7 than in Lion. Besides PS and Office, working with existing printers and printing CD labels is easier under Windows.
Even though it's a great machine and I love mine maybe the Mac Pro isn't all that much of a "must have" business machine anymore.
I'm so sick of these threads
Do you negative nellies really have to make a whole new thread about this every damn week? Is there something wrong with bitching in the existing threads?
Do you negative nellies really have to make a whole new thread about this every damn week? Is there something wrong with bitching in the existing threads?
They don't ever quell anything. It was the same way about the Mac Mini death rumors right before they got a redesign.
I don't know about that. Professionals create content that is used on consumer macs. Even if the tv shows don't have mac pros in them, the guy editing the video may very well be using a mac pro. Professionals also run sites that advise consumers of what to buy. Basically, even if these people make up a small number of hardware sales, the big picture shows that they have more influence than that.
I think you might have read me wrong, I probably could have worded my post better. Dell has 9 separate products across 3 workstation product lines. I was referring to each individual model. I'm pretty sure the more specialised ones aren't flying off the shelves and with all the features and industry certification Dell packs in, I'm pretty sure it costs no less to develop than the Mac Pro.
I stand corrected, I wasn't aware that the market was shrinking, thanks for that. However, even if Apple chooses to abandon the Mac Pro/Workstation in it's current form, I still think they need to find a way to take care of those customers.
When I look (Precision series), I see four (4) basic models (all Intel Xeon, and only looking at towers, not the rackmount R5500). The reason for this, is I take things from a systems engineering POV (same case, board, and CPU series for the particular model series; T1600, T3500, T5500, and T7500).
Past this, there may be specific model numbers within those model series, but those are pre-assembled configurations designed to allow for quick shipments (i.e. 1 - 2 days estimated ship times), rather than the extended wait necessary for a custom configuration.
It comes down to whether or not they wish to continue supporting those customers or not.
Currently, they do support the enterprise market from a technical POV (i.e. MP Server was created to satisfy XServe users), but it's not as extensive as what other vendors offer (less hardware available, and don't offer the types of integrated solutions for customization as say Dell or HP does). So this can be interpreted as they're not all that concerned/interested with this particular segment any longer (did what they needed it to do, which was keep them afloat when times were bad - but this has definitely changed). And software aspects, such as FCP X, has further fueled this interpretation.
Whether or not this interpretation is true, is yet to be proven/disproven, but it doesn't look good IMO, and Apple's not making any attempts to quell this sort of thinking as I see it (mention of missing features that will be restored in FCP X seemed to only happen after they got a bunch of complaints over it). Yet there's been no such statements in regard to the MP, despite the fact there have been articles on this. Granted, Apple's known for secrecy, even to the extreme, but it certainly makes me wonder, and what comes to mind isn't positive.