MP All Models Thinking about finally upgrading my 5,1 MacPro to a Mac Studio. Change my Mind.

[AnimeFunTv]

So I've been debating with myself about the possibility of upgrading my daily MacPro 5,1 for the new Mac Studio.

The reason for the push is because while I currently use OpenCore running macOS 12.2, it seems to me it's going to get increasingly harder to update to new OS's or quite possibly no longer will be able to. (ie. ongoing issues with OpenCore & macOS 12.3)

One of the main reasons I bought my first Mac in 2006 (MacPro 1,1) was to get away from all the patching and hardware incompatibly that Windows XP was giving me. It has been a great investment.

To me, it feels like getting to that point again trying to keep my MacPro 5,1 on life support to keep the latest macOS.

While Apple has 'plans' to debut a new MacPro, I really see it being out of my price range. (Like the current model) Also, I'm not sure how 3rd party GPU's would work with Apple Silicon.

I would love to keep using my daily MacPro 5,1 but it just seems like it's getting more harder to keep it relevant. If I were to upgrade, the Mac Studio I would choose the 20-Core M1 Ultra/64-Core GPU/128GB/1TB model.

At a cost of $5800, its not TOO much out of my price range. I would have to buy some adapters for my older Apple HD Display (DVI) and find a 4 Hard drive bay enclosure (non-raid) for my current drives, those aren't too expensive as well.

 

[turbineseaplane]

ongoing issues with OpenCore & macOS 12.3

What issues?

(I'm a hack user who is doing great on 12.3 w/ OC -- this something about your MacPro in particular?)

 

[turbineseaplane]

That aside, if you don't derive benefits from dual booting, etc -- probably should make the jump to ASi at this point

I personally would, if not for my extensive usage of Windows for gaming and my desire to keep just one machine for both (as long as practical)

 

[ScreenSavers]

I left the 5,1 club back when Big Sur came out and have switched to the M1 iMac. On paper, the M1 seems to have less of everything than a fully upgraded 6,1, but performance is way better. And not having to wait 30 seconds for it to wake from sleep is the best part. I still keep a 1,1 set up (with a 32” 4K display) next to my iMac but it rarely gets used. I’d personally go for the Mac Studio is I was in your position.

 

[bsbeamer]

Aside from price, personally think it all comes down to what you want PCIe slots for.

Many will say GPU, but no M-class product released to date can even work with an eGPU and I see no reason that will be different on a machine with native PCIe slots for straight GPU from "3rd party" vendor (like AMD).

Is there a chance? Sure.
Is there a chance MPX will work? Sure.

If you have the patience and time to wait, then wait. The Studio's are still multiple weeks away from delivery for many of the BTO configs and might only be another 8-10 weeks from delivery date until details on an AS Mac Pro are available.

If you're just wanting PCIe for internal NVMe storage, I think it might be time to explore external options if you want to stick with a Mac on a budget and an MP5,1 has met your needs until now. As you said, external enclosures are pretty cheap. A five bay 10Gbps USB-C enclosure for SATA SSDs or HDDs is $250 or less and $5 for a 2.5" > 3.5" adapter if it only takes 3.5" drives.

If you need I/O cards over PCIe, hearing several of those could be changing to TB or USB based options moving forward and possibly announced or teased at NAB. The bulk of Mac users do not have access to PCIe and these manufactures are starting to cater to the broader market. Even if they do not, or it takes longer than anticipated, or cost is prohibitive, a PCIe expansion box would solve the need for many.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

What issues?

(I'm a hack user who is doing great on 12.3 w/ OC -- this something about your MacPro in particular?)

Looking at the open core thread seemed like people were running into boot loop issues updating to 12.3. I'm running dortania Open Core legacy patcher. Haven't seen any solid confirmation that 'it just works' so I'll be staying away from the 12.3 update, I'm fine with 12.2 right now.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Looking at the open core thread seemed like people were running into boot loop issues updating to 12.3. I'm running dortania Open Core legacy patcher. Haven't seen any solid confirmation that 'it just works' so I'll be staying away from the 12.3 update, I'm fine with 12.2 right now.

I see

Sounds like stuff specific to some of the older hardware, etc

I'd move to Apple Silicon if I were you honestly

 

[MisterAndrew]

A Studio, 6,1, or 7,1 are all great upgrade options from a 5,1 depending on your needs. If you primarily use apps that benefit from single core CPU performance the Studio would be a good upgrade. If you need the best GPU performance a 7,1 with one of the top AMD cards would be better than the Studio. Same if you need tons of RAM and PCIe slots. Personally for $5800 I'd rather buy a 7,1 than the Studio because I like the ability to add capability as needed and the Studio is a closed box. That's why it doesn't appeal to me compared to the 6,1 because I can at least add storage to it and swap out the RAM if needed. But if you can hold out until fall (?) it might be best to wait for the updated Mac Pro, either AS or Intel.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

Aside from price, personally think it all comes down to what you want PCIe slots for.

Many will say GPU, but no M-class product released to date can even work with an eGPU and I see no reason that will be different on a machine with native PCIe slots for straight GPU from "3rd party" vendor (like AMD).

Is there a chance? Sure.
Is there a chance MPX will work? Sure.

If you have the patience and time to wait, then wait. The Studio's are still multiple weeks away from delivery for many of the BTO configs and might only be another 8-10 weeks from delivery date until details on an AS Mac Pro are available.

If you're just wanting PCIe for internal NVMe storage, I think it might be time to explore external options if you want to stick with a Mac on a budget and an MP5,1 has met your needs until now. As you said, external enclosures are pretty cheap. A five bay 10Gbps USB-C enclosure for SATA SSDs or HDDs is $250 or less and $5 for a 2.5" > 3.5" adapter if it only takes 3.5" drives.

If you need I/O cards over PCIe, hearing several of those could be changing to TB or USB based options moving forward and possibly announced or teased at NAB. The bulk of Mac users do not have access to PCIe and these manufactures are starting to cater to the broader market. Even if they do not, or it takes longer than anticipated, or cost is prohibitive, a PCIe expansion box would solve the need for many.

See, that's what I'm curious about. If no M-Class can use eGPU's how can it do PCIe? I know PCIe is an industry standard, but I think the M-Class uses entirely different ways of architecture that are possibly incompatible with PCIe? I'm not sure. Maybe someone can shine in.

Overall the only real PCIe slot I use is for the USB 3 card. the other cards are of course the RX 580 for display, a NVMe PCIe card, and a Blackmagic HDMI capture card. In all honestly, if I were to use an Mac Studio all of those PCIe cards minus the Blackmagic capture card I wouldn't need anymore.

I do have all the drive bays in my MacPro filled with 1TB drives so a USB 3, 4Bay enclosure would just work fine.

 

[bsbeamer]

No eGPU due to lack of support with M-class, specifically with the OS builds released to date. No indication there will be future support.

Other PCIe cards work with M-class. Many are being used in PCIe expansion boxes or repurposed old eGPU housings (which then just becomes a PCIe expansion box).

There are several TB-based Blackmagic HDMI capture cards that would work.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

A Studio, 6,1, or 7,1 are all great upgrade options from a 5,1 depending on your needs. If you primarily use apps that benefit from single core CPU performance the Studio would be a good upgrade. If you need the best GPU performance a 7,1 with one of the top AMD cards would be better than the Studio. Same if you need tons of RAM and PCIe slots. Personally for $5800 I'd rather buy a 7,1 than the Studio because I like the ability to add capability as needed and the Studio is a closed box. That's why it doesn't appeal to me compared to the 6,1 because I can at least add storage to it and swap out the RAM if needed. But if you can hold out until fall (?) it might be best to wait for the updated Mac Pro, either AS or Intel.

See, what's odd is when the 6,1 (trashcan) came out I bucked it because it wasn't as upgradable as my 5,1. Of course, during that time the 5,1 was still a relevant machine. 5,1 is getting pretty long on the tooth too, Heck, when I upgraded from my 2006 MacPro 1,1 to my current 5,1, was in 2018. So my 06' lasted me 12 years, the 5,1 is already 10 years old so it's about that time. But I was kind of against the whole idea of no expandability and upgrades, and I still am. Though taking another look at my needs and how pretty much everything that my 5,1 has can be easily replaced into one machine has got me thinking. Do I need a high-end GPU like before? Does macOS or any other app really need or use the full 128GB? I'm using only 100GB of my 1TB NVMe drive, everything else is on a spinny disk for archival. I don't do much video editing as before. So a lot has changed for me and my need for a powerhouse desktop.

Edit: Of course, It would be nice to upgrade the ram and GPU. Being Apple Silicon, CPU upgradability would be out of the question unless Apple throws us a curve ball and with the new MacPro the CPU would be socketed.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Maybe you can find a great deal on a 7,1 if you keep your nose to the ground?

 

[bsbeamer]

I wouldn’t recommend an MP6,1 for anyone at this point, unless you already own it. GPU failures are near impossible to fix at this point.

Really sounds like OP could get away with a powerful mini if/when updated processor versions are released. Maybe consider an Intel version if you want another stopgap?

Many getting Studio Max models are buying more than they need or can utilize. No one knows what M2 will bring or when. Speculation seems to be pointing to massive improvements every 2-3 years, which might make longevity or expected active “lifespan” an issue.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

Maybe you can find a great deal on a 7,1 if you keep your nose to the ground?

Maybe? LOL. As much as I love the 7,1, I really don't see much of a future for the 7,1 sadly. If it's going to be replaced this year that means it would only have a 3-year life span, unlike the 5,1/6,1 which had a longer span and longer time to be explored.

 

[turbineseaplane]

If it's going to be replaced this year

If...

If indeed

I'm in the camp that won't be surprised if a new Apple Silicon MP lives alongside an Intel one for a while.

I think the are things that their Mac Pro customers do and want that ASi may not do for a while (or ever).

 

[AnimeFunTv]

I wouldn’t recommend an MP6,1 for anyone at this point, unless you already own it. GPU failures are near impossible to fix at this point.

Really sounds like OP could get away with a powerful mini if/when updated processor versions are released. Maybe consider an Intel version if you want another stopgap?

Many getting Studio Max models are buying more than they need or can utilize. No one knows what M2 will bring or when. Speculation seems to be pointing to massive improvements every 2-3 years, which might make longevity or expected active “lifespan” an issue.

I do kind of see it as, like the iPhone life cycle, I usually try and get the high-end iPhone and it lasts me well over 5 years before it becomes remotely obsolete. (iPhone 6s plus I use as an iPod for my car radio, I have an iPhone 11 Pro Max as my daily) So I'm sure the Mac Studio will have a longer life span than the iPhones.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

If...

If indeed

I'm in the camp that won't be surprised if a new Apple Silicon MP lives alongside an Intel one for a while.

I think the are things that their Mac Pro customers do and want that ASi may not do for a while (or ever).

I can see that as well, but I'm also sure Apple would be eager to cut Intel as soon as possible so I'd give it maybe another year before it would be quietly discontinued.

 

[turbineseaplane]

I can see that as well, but I'm also sure Apple would be eager to cut Intel as soon as possible so I'd give it maybe another year before it would be quietly discontinued.

It might be… But I suspect macOS support for it will go a good five years from now still

It’s hard to know with the MacPro…
They re-committed to that in a way that makes it hard to predict what they will do in the future

 

[JayKay514]

I was running a 5,1 patched to run newer OSes until it just became untenable. My thinking was having PCIe slots to run UAD DSP cards, but nowadays all of that can run over TB with external interfaces.

I'm currently using a base model M1 Mac Mini and I haven't even begun to stress it out performance-wise, so a Studio would easily meet the needs of people with intense video / audio workflows. The M1 Ultra just about equals the 28-core Xeon Mac Pro + a hefty pair of graphics cards, if you believe Apple's measurements, so that would be a *huge* leap from your current machine.

My setup is fairly simple - dual monitors, an audio interface, webcam, and a couple of SSDs in an OWC external USB-C enclosure for backups. The only thing I wish it had was more Thunderbolt ports.

I would say don't hesitate. If you're at the end of the road with your 5,1 then the Studio will be a fine replacement.

 

[SpotOnT]

I think by this point it is totally reasonable to upgrade from your 5,1, especially since it sounds like you don’t particularly enjoy the software tinkering involved. Personally though, if I was going to spend 5k, I would wait until WWDC and see what the new AS Mac Pro is gonna look like.

Any reason you can’t go for the M1 Max Studio? Just thinking we really don’t know what the development rate of Apple Silicon is going to be yet. Spending $2-3k just seems less risky for a first generation device. That is all just me though.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

I think I just hit the wall to upgrade to a Mac Studio and that's VM's. I do run Parallels from time to time with WinXP, Win7, and MacOS 10.7 and currently Parallels isnt able to (probably never will) have support for those OS's which is a shame. I could see it happening but it will take a while.

 

[grouch]

I love my 6,1 and don't plan on replacing it anytime soon, I feel like Apple dropped the ball with the mac studio.

 

[Hunter5117]

I made the similar decision in 2020 when keeping my 5,1 concurrent with my other Macs became impossible without some sort of hack. I was lucky and found a 6,1 still new and I have been running it with AppleCare ever since. I have had a Mac Pro since the 1,1 and hated not having one.

If I was faced with the decision today and needed that much power (I do light photo and video editing) then the Studio Max would be the logical choice. If I needed the power of the Ultra then I might be inclined to keep limping along with what I have until the new Pro is released, just to see how it fits in the power/price ladder.

 

[BellSystem]

I did the same thing. The 5,1 was fun to hack together and keep going. But I was done living in the Intel dark ages and glad I did.

 

[pianostar9]

I think I just hit the wall to upgrade to a Mac Studio and that's VM's. I do run Parallels from time to time with WinXP, Win7, and MacOS 10.7 and currently Parallels isnt able to (probably never will) have support for those OS's which is a shame. I could see it happening but it will take a while.

You could look into QEMU/UTM to emulate x86