MP All Models Thinking about finally upgrading my 5,1 MacPro to a Mac Studio. Change my Mind.

[AnimeFunTv]

You really expect an OpenCore style jailbreak for M-based machines to be available in 7+ years? The Hackintosh community would be thrilled, just don't see it happening. M-based machines are a different beast than Intel-based Mac. If anything, would expect the secure enclave security stuff to strengthen/increase over the coming years.

Would not be shocked to see a T2/Tx requirement for the latest OS version to function at some point in the next 3-5 years if OS support for Intel CPUs is still around. That would impact i9-based 2019 iMac 27" with Vega48 & 128GB RAM without T2, which is probably more capable than base level i5 2020 iMac 27" with T2.

Thats one area where I am concerned is the increasing security of the T2 chips. Yeah, having secure data is great an all.

Really, all that I've spoken about is speculative. I would love to invest in a new Mac, and if software support lasts for 8+ years, that's good, 10+ years, even better.

I personally see no reason why software support can't go for 10+ years for a Mac Studio other than Apple's planned obsolescence.

 

[jscipione]

PCIe

 

[Macative]

You really expect an OpenCore style jailbreak for M-based machines to be available in 7+ years? The Hackintosh community would be thrilled, just don't see it happening. M-based machines are a different beast than Intel-based Mac. If anything, would expect the secure enclave security stuff to strengthen/increase over the coming years.

Would not be shocked to see a T2/Tx requirement for the latest OS version to function at some point in the next 3-5 years if OS support for Intel CPUs is still around. That would impact i9-based 2019 iMac 27" with Vega48 & 128GB RAM without T2, which is probably more capable than base level i5 2020 iMac 27" with T2.

Undoubtedly there will eventually be a macOS version that only supports Macs with Apple Silicon.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Honestly? I do. Given that macOS has a new number for every year it comes out (MacOS 20.0 = 2030 (8 years))

Once again, unless macOS gets really bloated for some reason that a 20 core cpu, 64 core gpu and 128gb of memory isn't up to par anymore, there is something absolutely wrong with macOS.

If were talking about lower end M1's then yes, I could potentially see some of those coming to EOL.

They will not support the top end, they will support the bottom end. 32GB of ram, 10 core, 24GPUs. Once they stop support for that model, they will also stop support for the top end model.

 

[Melbourne Park]

I reckon the base Studio looks a safer bet. Just leave it with 32 GB Ram and 1 TB HD, or 2 TB. The Ultra is for Pros who'll pay for its speed in weeks. But the base model will still pay for itself in weeks, just a few more. When there's a newer model, sell the old and upgrade then. For many it's all that is needed.

For redundancy, a proper external is now very cheap. 4 TB is super cheap. 8 TB is too, as is 12 TB. So buy for instance two 4 or 8 TB drives, swap them over each week, one stored somewhere else, and you're covered.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

They will not support the top end, they will support the bottom end. 32GB of ram, 10 core, 24GPUs. Once they stop support for that model, they will also stop support for the top end model.

I should have clarified, I mean low-end M1 models such as the Mac Mini/iMac would lose support before the Mac Studio.

 

[Macative]

I should have clarified, I mean low-end M1 models such as the Mac Mini/iMac would lose support before the Mac Studio.

We're in hypothetical territory now but, M1 losing OS support when M1 Ultra doesn't...does not really make sense unless it is purely a performance related reason...and we would have to be at a new threshold somewhere down the line where the performance of the M1 Ultra is required just to run the OS. That is very unlikely.

What is more likely is that at some point, 8, 10, 12 years from now the entire M1 family loses support for current macOS at the same time, as a purely architectural reason forces the cut off.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

We're in hypothetical territory now but, M1 losing OS support when M1 Ultra doesn't...does not really make sense unless it is purely a performance related reason...and we would have to be at a new threshold somewhere down the line where the performance of the M1 Ultra is required just to run the OS. That is very unlikely.

What is more likely is that at some point, 8, 10, 12 years from now the entire M1 family loses support for current macOS at the same time, as a purely architectural reason forces the cut off.

True, it's hypothetical. IMO I don't see the entire M1 family being all dropped at once, each M1 is technically different.

OG M1 - 8 core
M1 Pro - 8/10 core
M1 Max - 10 core
M1 Ultra - 20 core

I would see the OG M1 & Pro 8 core being dropped first before the Max and Ultra in 8-10 years' time. This IMO is how it would possibly go; it would be kind of upsetting if it were true that the entire M1 line would all be software dropped all at one go, that too can also happen, because Apple. lol

 

[SpotOnT]

And still available today on the refurb store....

lol really!? In what country? (I don’t see it in the US Apple store)

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

True, it's hypothetical. IMO I don't see the entire M1 family being all dropped at once, each M1 is technically different.

OG M1 - 8 core
M1 Pro - 8/10 core
M1 Max - 10 core
M1 Ultra - 20 core

I would see the OG M1 & Pro 8 core being dropped first before the Max and Ultra in 8-10 years' time. This IMO is how it would possibly go; it would be kind of upsetting if it were true that the entire M1 line would all be software dropped all at one go, that too can also happen, because Apple. lol

In more recent times, lack of GPU grunt seemed to be the bulk of the reason to drop a model. Will be interesting to see how that translates with Apple chips.

 

[Mac Hammer Fan]

This can be a slippery slope with expectations. While the hardware can/might/will function after that time, there is no guarantee on security updates, vulnerability patches, or even a timeline when the system will be EOL'd by Apple and make it ineligible for future OS versions.

Many are assuming 5-7 years of full support, but even that does not guarantee or mean the latest and greatest OS version at the end of that life cycle will work... and you're expecting an additional 3 years beyond that?

I fully get no one wants to be blowing money or budget on "unnecessary" computer stuff and the hacks to keep MP4,1 and MP5,1 going to this point are more than most could or should have expected. The unfortunate reality of the situation is the CPU's are EOL'd and have pretty significant vulnerabilities that are not patched and never will be. More vulnerabilities will be discovered and exploited over time. macOS is no longer officially supported. OC has worked for some, but it is not perfect. Anyone who wants to keep these machines going really should have a backup plan and (at minimum) some kind of outside hardware firewall protections if they want to keep them connected to internet.

When I read this, I think it's time to give up my Mac Pro 5,1 as main computer. I ordered the Mac Studio M1 Max 10 cores 32 GPU with 32 GB RAM. It should arrive at the end of april. Fingers crossed that I won't regret it.

 

[bloomfeld]

When I read this, I think it's time to give up my Mac Pro 5,1 as main computer. I ordered the Mac Studio M1 Max 10 cores 32 GPU with 32 GB RAM. It should arrive at the end of april. Fingers crossed that I won't regret it.

I am pretty sure you won't regret it. When I did the upgrade from 4.1/5.1 to 7.1 it was a huge difference. Now with the M1 Max Macbook Pro I see how this is even faster. I get your point with the VM/bootcamp to windows use cases, so this is why I am going to keep the 7.1 as my main machine for as long as possible.

 

[Macative]

True, it's hypothetical. IMO I don't see the entire M1 family being all dropped at once, each M1 is technically different.

OG M1 - 8 core
M1 Pro - 8/10 core
M1 Max - 10 core
M1 Ultra - 20 core

I would see the OG M1 & Pro 8 core being dropped first before the Max and Ultra in 8-10 years' time. This IMO is how it would possibly go; it would be kind of upsetting if it were true that the entire M1 line would all be software dropped all at one go, that too can also happen, because Apple. lol

Again, there is no foreseeable future where Apple has to cut off the M1 processor from macOS updates, but the M1 Ultra can still run it. That's simply not how it works. Any cut off will be architecturally determined. An os version will be designed to work specifically with a minimum architecture, and any chip family not using that will be cut off.

The same thing has happened through the entire fast moving history of Apple Silicon. When a chip gets cut off, they get cut off. The A chip doesn't get cut while the AX chip remains. No, they go together, because these end up being architecture and not CPU performance related cutoffs. In the case of iOS devices, sometimes memory plays a factor since older iOS devices had very little memory.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

Again, there is no foreseeable future where Apple has to cut off the M1 processor from macOS updates, but the M1 Ultra can still run it. That's simply not how it works. Any cut off will be architecturally determined. An os version will be designed to work specifically with a minimum architecture, and any chip family not using that will be cut off.

The same thing has happened through the entire fast moving history of Apple Silicon. When a chip gets cut off, they get cut off. The A chip doesn't get cut while the AX chip remains. No, they go together, because these end up being architecture and not CPU performance related cutoffs. In the case of iOS devices, sometimes memory plays a factor since older iOS devices had very little memory.

I see what you mean, I had to look it up on Wikipedia on the A-Series and yeah. For example the A5, there was the OG A5 and then the A5X, iOS 9.3.6 was the last they all supported.

One thing I would say is the A8 and A8X, that is split as the A8 was dropped when OS 12.5.5, but the A8X is still currently supported. So it's not really consistent. The A8X was released in 2014 so thats going on 8 years.

 

[bsbeamer]

A8X was for iPad Air 2 and was officially discontinued in 2017, but still sold by resellers for much longer than anticipated during the gap in the Air product cycle. This was also used in come classroom and education settings, which I believe have a pre-negotiated contract for specific number of years of support guaranteed as part of the purchase/contract. (Same reason some specific low end iMacs existed well past their life cycle.)

Even giving benefit of the doubt without an official support contract, that is currently 5 years of product life for those that purchased in March 2017 before it was officially discontinued. I would expect this to be on the bubble of support for the next version of iPadOS.

According to rumors:
"Apple plans to drop support for the iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, and the original iPhone SE with iOS 16. If that’s the case, iPadOS 16 could be incompatible with iPad mini 4, iPad Air 2, iPad (fifth-generation), and the original iPad Pro models."

 

[th0masp]

I'd either drop the games/Windows requirement from the bucket list and go with the Studio - or invest in a Hackintosh based on the best hardware available now. Going by application benchmarks its not like the AS hardware is crushing the competition anyway, seems like a mixed affair. The OS will have several years of support left on Intel so it may actually remain as compatible as a current day Studio.

So far I have zero experience with Opencore though (getting ready to deal with that on my MBP) so its hard to say if this can be as reliable as a real Mac on a regular Intel box.

 

[Macative]

I see what you mean, I had to look it up on Wikipedia on the A-Series and yeah. For example the A5, there was the OG A5 and then the A5X, iOS 9.3.6 was the last they all supported.

One thing I would say is the A8 and A8X, that is split as the A8 was dropped when OS 12.5.5, but the A8X is still currently supported. So it's not really consistent. The A8X was released in 2014 so thats going on 8 years.

You are correct about A8X in the iPad Air 2, but this is memory related, as I mentioned above. The A8 products only had 1 GB of RAM, whereas iPad Air 2 has 2 GB. Holding on for dear life today.

 

[ssj92]

I just bought a Mac Pro 5,1 and ordered stuff to beef it up. Reading these replies makes me wonder if I should have just chilled.

To be fair though I do have a iMac Pro and 16” M1 Pro macbook pro. So it’s more for fun, although I will try to use it.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

I'd either drop the games/Windows requirement from the bucket list and go with the Studio - or invest in a Hackintosh based on the best hardware available now. Going by application benchmarks its not like the AS hardware is crushing the competition anyway, seems like a mixed affair. The OS will have several years of support left on Intel so it may actually remain as compatible as a current day Studio.

So far I have zero experience with Opencore though (getting ready to deal with that on my MBP) so its hard to say if this can be as reliable as a real Mac on a regular Intel box.

OpenCore does really bring new life into older Mac's, but it seems like every macOS update there is something that bricks it or other issues. Thats to be expected.

Hackintosh is out of the question for me as thats the whole reason why I switched to Mac's in 2006 was to avoid all the troubles of compatibility and hardware quality issues with Windows XP.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

On a side note, I've been looking a reviews of the M1 Ultra. The general consensus is one of two things (or both) the software (either the benchmark or apps) are currently not optimized, or two Apple has deliberately scaled back the performance (via firmware) until said apps have matured and (hopefully) a firmware update will allow the full potential of the M1 Ultra.

 

[AnimeFunTv]

I just bought a Mac Pro 5,1 and ordered stuff to beef it up. Reading these replies makes me wonder if I should have just chilled.

To be fair though I do have a iMac Pro and 16” M1 Pro macbook pro. So it’s more for fun, although I will try to use it.

The MacPro 5,1 is still great machine all around. I do plan on keeping mine even if I get the Mac Studio, I still have my MacPro 1,1 although its more of a beefed up Windows XP machine on BootCamp at the moment, lol.

 

[SpotOnT]

On a side note, I've been looking a reviews of the M1 Ultra. The general consensus is one of two things (or both) the software (either the benchmark or apps) are currently not optimized, or two Apple has deliberately scaled back the performance (via firmware) until said apps have matured and (hopefully) a firmware update will allow the full potential of the M1 Ultra.

As far as I can tell, the CPU side is scaling well, the GPU side is not. Unclear if it is hardware or firmware limited. Either way, the software is definitely not taking full advantage yet.

 

[sfalatko]

I just bought a Mac Pro 5,1 and ordered stuff to beef it up. Reading these replies makes me wonder if I should have just chilled.

To be fair though I do have a iMac Pro and 16” M1 Pro macbook pro. So it’s more for fun, although I will try to use it.

Well I'm one of the ones keeping an aging 2010 cMP5,1 alive and kicking going the OpenCore route. I picked mine up as a refurb in 2013 and have updated the processor and RAM, added a PCIe SSD and a NVME M.2 drive as well as a RX 560 GPU.

At some point I will move to a new machine - probably M1/2 based - but my cMP is running Monterey fine and it is really meeting my needs while keeping me from spending thousands on a new setup.

Have some fun with yours. There are a ton of people here for advice and help.

Regards,
sfalatko

 

[mikas]

Still using cMP 2010 as a daily driver (well, at least one of those):
2x X5680, 128GB RAM, Radeon VII, 2TB corsair NVMe.
Only real thing missing is single core speed.

I tried to transition to tcMP aka trashcan, but they are not reliable enough as a usefull machine for work. They crash on sleep, and sometimes they crash at will either way.

Apple would not correct, or is not able to correct, or is not aware of the the situation. I don't know which one worries me the most.

I do not trust Apple like I used to. That's one thing why I don't want to jump on Apple Mac Studio. Other reasons not to buy Mac Studio now might get corrected as time goes by, I'm pretty sure they will.

I can't do the swap. I am in the minority though, I think. I am a practicing architect. I need to deliver, not troubleshoot.

 

[MarkC426]

lol really!? In what country? (I don’t see it in the US Apple store)