Thinking of buying a digital camera, prob s/h

[StrollerEd]

Just spent a big chunk of Sunday morning trying to make sense of my purposes, your advice and relative pricing and availability. Hoping to have whatever I eventually choose in my hand within the next 10 days.

Fujifilm
watching vids, can see the appeal that would commit me to this approach to photography.
Having undergone a bit of education on lenses, think I might still start with the 27mm f/2.8 and then consider choice between X-E4 and X-T4. Appreciated the link to dpreview and the heads-up on OIS & IBIS. This would be beyond my anticipated 'entry' budget but I confess it would still be affordable, hence 'still in the frame' <groan>
(I also sneaked a look at the X100V thinking that or an earlier s/h model might be suitable entry&stay.)

Sony
Did have a wander through the successive versions of the 6000 series and might return to do so again before deciding.
The link to camera decision.com was appreciated; it also compared the Sony RX100 VII with the older Alpha A7 II,

Sony RX100 VII vs Sony A7 II Detailed Comparison

Read our detailed comparison of the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 VII vs Sony Alpha A7 II to find out their strengths and weaknesses, and decide which one to choose.

cameradecision.com

I now note from the website of the store I visited yesterday that the RX100 VII is available for me to handle, but there was insufficient time as I opted instead to listen and learn about the comparison between the Sony Alpha A7 III, the Olympus and the Fuji T5 and opted to l. The store is closed today.
Combination of a s/h RX100 IV with something like the 35mm f/2.8, I might come in at £678 delivered.

Olympus
I was disappointed with the feel of the model I tried in the store having been keen on the cost of entry into this world: "£474 buys me Olympus OM-D E-M10 Mark III (£257) + Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 II (£217)" I will see whether I can get to handle any of the other models mentioned.

Panasonic
Thus far, have only quickly browsed the Lumix ZS200

​

 

[Ray2]

Since we’re discussing photography, let’s not lose sight of the fact the gear is a minor contributor to the end result. Look at your posted media and critic it. What would improve it?

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

Once again, I'd suggest a look at the Canon R50.
You may find one user's impressions of it here (assuming DPR is still running):
R50 Review: Small and capable, but with limitations

 

[StrollerEd]

Since we’re discussing photography, let’s not lose sight of the fact the gear is a minor contributor to the end result. Look at your posted media and critic it. What would improve it?

Fair point, and I’ve been pleased, rightly or wrongly, with the progress I have made on this forum with what I have.

Just believe, rightly or wrongly, that I might do better moving on from an iPhone

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Fair point, and I’ve been pleased, rightly or wrongly, with the progress I have made on this forum with what I have.

Just believe, rightly or wrongly, that I might do better moving on from an iPhone

Some thoughts here. What do you do with your images? If they are being viewed on an iPhone, Laptop, or typical 1200x1920 monitor, then camera requirements will be much more modest as opposed to viewing on a fine pitch monitor the size of a sheet of plywood.

If you are typically printing no bigger than 8x10 or even 11x14, even my tiny sensor Fuji XP90 is up to the task. Want to go bigger I would look at 1" sensor to handle uncropped 16x20. Bigger than that, APS-C or even full frame should be your weapon of choice.

Then there is depth of field. Looking for extreme depth of field I would be suggesting something with the 1" sensor. More interested in Bokeh effects then I would definitely lean towards full frame. APS-C is a decent compromise that handles both reasonably well.

Those are just the major areas, the lenses you think you will eventually need can also have a huge impact on what body and sensor combo you finally decide on.

Write down your thoughts on what you hope to do with the new camera, specifically those areas where the phone is an extreme handicap for you. Also new areas you would like to explore. For example micro or astral photography could really skew your choice in a different direction than landscape or wildlife.

 

[StrollerEd]

Some thoughts here. What do you do with your images? If they are being viewed on an iPhone, Laptop, or typical 1200x1920 monitor, then camera requirements will be much more modest as opposed to viewing on a fine pitch monitor the size of a sheet of plywood.

If you are typically printing no bigger than 8x10 or even 11x14, even my tiny sensor Fuji XP90 is up to the task. Want to go bigger I would look at 1" sensor to handle uncropped 16x20. Bigger than that, APS-C or even full frame should be your weapon of choice.

Then there is depth of field. Looking for extreme depth of field I would be suggesting something with the 1" sensor. More interested in Bokeh effects then I would definitely lean towards full frame. APS-C is a decent compromise that handles both reasonably well.

Those are just the major areas, the lenses you think you will eventually need can also have a huge impact on what body and sensor combo you finally decide on.

Write down your thoughts on what you hope to do with the new camera, specifically those areas where the phone is an extreme handicap for you. Also new areas you would like to explore. For example micro or astral photography could really skew your choice in a different direction than landscape or wildlife.

I think I'm teetering on the brink of becoming a hobbyist ... but just to what degree is up for grabs.

(The Sony Cybershot W270 is still working)

 

[r.harris1]

I think I'm teetering on the brink of becoming a hobbyist ... but just to what degree is up for grabs.

On the one hand it’s true “the camera doesn’t matter” because most all of them these days can produce great images with a willing person behind them, phone cameras very much included. On the other hand, for me, “the camera does matter” because of perhaps more subjective things like ergonomics and whether you like to grab it and use it. I value flexibility and gear I can grow into. You may value other things . But I love that you’re actually trying to get your hands on them. That’s the best way, for sure. There’s not a better hobby.

 

[Ray2]

Fair point, and I’ve been pleased, rightly or wrongly, with the progress I have made on this forum with what I have.

Just believe, rightly or wrongly, that I might do better moving on from an iPhone

Moving from a phone to camera can be a rational act (macro, low light, etc) or a purely subjective move as it’s simply what you feel like doing. Both are perfectly acceptable reasons. My only point is not to expect any of a bewildering number of body/lens combinations to make a material difference vs an iPhone 12 Pro. It’s the person selecting the subject, the angle, the framing, the metering and pressing the button that creates great files.

Within the envelope of what my 13 mini is capable of handling (I tend to shoot wide and there's no lack of light in south Florida) my 6 “real cameras” don’t do much better, if any better. I just like shooting an old GM1 with a fast prime way more than my phone.

 

[StrollerEd]

The X-T3 is a great camera body. The X-E3/4 are very compact, but maybe out of your budget. A cautionary tale on Fuji, is most bodies don’t have IBIS, and the primes offer no OIS. That can sometimes require a good amount of technical skill, which might result in frustration when starting off. M43 is a great jumping off point because the IBIS is phenomenal, the primes are excellent and small, and you can get long zooms for a fair value. Smartphones fall flat when seeking up-close detail, like of wildlife, where the 75-300 will get your right up there to it. It’s also an affordable avenue, and much of the products are weathersealed really well. E-m10 is nice, but don’t overlook a used E-M5.3 or E-M1.2 for value.

As stated, I appreciated the heads-up about IBIS & OIS which is making me hesitate re the X-T3.

Also, thanks for the pointer towards the E-M5.3, altho' oddly the used price for the M10.3 was less.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

As stated, I appreciated the heads-up about IBIS & OIS which is making me hesitate re the X-T3.

Also, thanks for the pointer towards the E-M5.3, altho' oddly the used price for the M10.3 was less.

The 5.3 is a more upscale camera vs the 10.3, so pricing is no surprise. A used 1.2 is your absolute best value, but it’s not quite as small.

 

[StrollerEd]

The 5.3 is a more upscale camera vs the 10.3, so pricing is no surprise. A used 1.2 is your absolute best value, but it’s not quite as small.

I wondered about earlier 5.3 being a better camera from having read the reviews.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I wondered about earlier 5.3 being a better camera from having read the reviews.

It’s small and light, but quite comfortable. It also has more features vs the 10.3. I’ve shot extensively with the 5.3, and if small and light are your goals, it’s hard to beat, especially with the P12-32 pancake, p20mm 1.7, O25 1.8 and O45 1.8.

 

[StrollerEd]

It’s small and light, but quite comfortable. It also has more features vs the 10.3. I’ve shot extensively with the 5.3, and if small and light are your goals, it’s hard to beat, especially with the P12-32 pancake, p20mm 1.7, O25 1.8 and O45 1.8.

Duh! I'd been reading reviews and pricing of the 5.2 ;(

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

The 5.2 was a well loved camera, but it’s pretty old now. The 5.3 jumps to 20MP as well.

The GX-9 is a solid little camera too. I didn’t care for the EVF, but otherwise it’s very capable. If you shoot a lot from the rear LCD, it’s worth a hard look.

 

[Ray2]

The GX9, or for a bargain, the GX85 evf's are composition only. Superb little cameras, I’ve had both, still have the GX9. Well thought out intuitive controls, with good customizable profiles, can take a beating. It’s one of those rare items where it’s more than the sum of the parts.

 

[StrollerEd]

The 5.2 was a well loved camera, but it’s pretty old now. The 5.3 jumps to 20MP as well.

The GX-9 is a solid little camera too. I didn’t care for the EVF, but otherwise it’s very capable. If you shoot a lot from the rear LCD, it’s worth a hard look.

The GX9, or for a bargain, the GX85 evf's are composition only. Superb little cameras, I’ve had both, still have the GX9. Well thought out intuitive controls, with good customizable profiles, can take a beating. It’s one of those rare items where it’s more than the sum of the parts.

Helpful.

altho' what do you mean by "the GX85 evf's are composition only" - can't be tilted?

 

[StrollerEd]

Please excuse this extended post. Comments and suggestions here have helped me crystalise a few things, now written down.

I have used a compact in the past, before the iPhone 7, but that now gets left behind as the 12Pro delivers and is with me. From the feedback I’ve had here on the results from the 12Pro, I am generally happy with what I can achieve. I really do get its the music photography that matters more than the kit 😉 - but am interested to see what can be done with better kit. [Speaking from past experience of several years upgrading hi-fi kit – then it was all about the PRaT].

More on my drivers:

Living in Scotland, low light happens v often; do get to enjoy some great landscapes, some close at hand, plus I live in a beautiful city [the Ed is for Edinburgh and folk here might recall seeing a lot of the photogenic Forth Bridge!]. People also a ready subject, although not generally shared here, nor often (yet) as subject for formal portrait. I do not aspire to astral skies. Not (yet) into macro, but I have wondered.

Current/updated thinking on criteria when entering the water: I’m happy to …

• buy used (second hand) & be behind the curve [even if I have read just how much better the latest version is
• start modestly and be prepared to upgrade later, cascading initial choice to a younger relative, especially if I then change track
• opt for the longer term flexibility of the body & lens strategy, rather than go for a much improved fixed lens camera

I discover that I’ve other things happening today, so have to postpone a second visit to local store to gain some more ‘hands-on’ experience.

 

[StrollerEd]

To put this starkly, having liked the T5 in the hand and read and viewed a lot, I am beginning to wonder whether I will end up on the Fuji trail, but then, is this the right moment to sign up?

Why not now? - Mainly hesitation at the expense combined with concern about the most appropriate body to select for entry. Thus far, I've pondered T3/T4 and E3/E4 plus some other models.

I was going to add that I thought I needed to undergo some prior period as an apprentice, ‘learning’ about settings for focal length, ISO, shutter speed, exposure etc. However, the auto Fuji settings with options for manual settings, combined with the range of Fujifilm effects does appeal.

Of course I would be using auto settings for any brand of camera body and using that to begin yet another education late(r) in life.

 

[mollyc]

Please excuse this extended post. Comments and suggestions here have helped me crystalise a few things, now written down.

I have used a compact in the past, before the iPhone 7, but that now gets left behind as the 12Pro delivers and is with me. From the feedback I’ve had here on the results from the 12Pro, I am generally happy with what I can achieve. I really do get its the music photography that matters more than the kit 😉 - but am interested to see what can be done with better kit. [Speaking from past experience of several years upgrading hi-fi kit – then it was all about the PRaT].

More on my drivers:

Living in Scotland, low light happens v often; do get to enjoy some great landscapes, some close at hand, plus I live in a beautiful city [the Ed is for Edinburgh and folk here might recall seeing a lot of the photogenic Forth Bridge!]. People also a ready subject, although not generally shared here, nor often (yet) as subject for formal portrait. I do not aspire to astral skies. Not (yet) into macro, but I have wondered.

Current/updated thinking on criteria when entering the water: I’m happy to …

• buy used (second hand) & be behind the curve [even if I have read just how much better the latest version is
• start modestly and be prepared to upgrade later, cascading initial choice to a younger relative, especially if I then change track
• opt for the longer term flexibility of the body & lens strategy, rather than go for a much improved fixed lens camera

I discover that I’ve other things happening today, so have to postpone a second visit to local store to gain some more ‘hands-on’ experience.

Yes I think your interests are too varied for a fixed lens camera and an ILC would serve you well as you grow. You of couse will likely start with a single lens, but you have the flexibility to add in more as you go.

I think at this point you'll just have to make a gut decision, whether you spec read some more or go back to the camera store to hold things in hand again. It sounds like you have a good handle on what you want out of your gear and a budget, so you'll just have to pick and get shooting. 🙂

As said a few times in this thread, cameras today are all very good, so it's unlikely you'll make a bad choice.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I agree with mollyc, they are many good choices, to the point that you end up right where you are, fatigued by choice! Since you are rather new with the idea, but appear to have a desire to learn and grow in photography, I'd say you'd want to go with a camera that is comfortable in your hands and has the ability to change lenses. It doesn't have to be the latest and greatest, but certainly something with a nice catalog of good lenses. Fuji is certainly a good one, and the X-T bodies are proven and comfortable. M43 has a lens for darn near everything, and it can be very light and compact and pretty affordable. Perhaps one way to go is get a decent used body and invest a bit more in the lenses. You can always upgrade the body if you take to it. If you don't, then you didn't drop huge sums on a body that you're not going to use.

For example, the X-T5 is a great camera, but it's a lot of money to start with. The X-T2 will have a very similar layout, but just an older (but capable) sensor and processor. If you find that Fuji is the right fit, build up a decent lens catalog, and set your sights on the X-T5 down the road (and it will just get cheaper with time).

Used isn't bad, as my entire kit is preowned. You can usually tell what's been abused and what has been handled pretty well.

 

[Clix Pix]

I agree that in the long run going with an interchangeable lens camera is good strategy, as it provides you plenty of room to grow and expand as your interests develop and change and you want to explore more. I also agree that it's probably wise to just jump in and buy something to get started -- spring is an ideal time to purchase and use camera gear! Going with a gently-used body and lens is a good solution, too, as it gives you something to use and learn on immediately and it helps you to further realize what is and what is not important to you in features and functionality.

And, yes, put your money into the lens more than into the body, as most of us tend to trade up bodies long before we trade in lenses, and buying high-quality lenses right from the get-go pays off in the end.

Definitely get back into the store as soon as you can and send time handling more bodies and lenses, chatting with the sales personnel about advantages and disadvantages of various things, etc. Whatever you wind up buying you will also need and want at least a couple of memory cards, plus a spare battery or two, and you also might prefer to select a neck strap or wrist strap rather than going with whatever is provided with the camera if there is one. Whenever I purchase a new camera I just leave the provided strap in the box because I don't like walking around with a neck strap blazing the brand name. Aside from that, most straps provided by the manufacturer aren't all that comfortable for some reason. There are various companies which make straps: neck straps, sling straps, cross-body straps, wrist straps, whatever.....

Also at some point you may also want to purchase a camera bag or backpack for carrying gear when going further afield than simply around your home area and when you eventually have more than one lens. But first, get yourself a nice camera and good lens and start shooting!

Ah, so the "Ed" in your username stands for "Edinburgh"?!! OK, I'll stop calling you "Ed," then, as I'd assumed (erroneously, obviously) that it was your name! LOL!

 

[StrollerEd]

I agree that in the long run going with an interchangeable lens camera is good strategy, as it provides you plenty of room to grow and expand as your interests develop and change and you want to explore more. I also agree that it's probably wise to just jump in and buy something to get started -- spring is an ideal time to purchase and use camera gear! Going with a gently-used body and lens is a good solution, too, as it gives you something to use and learn on immediately and it helps you to further realize what is and what is not important to you in features and functionality.

And, yes, put your money into the lens more than into the body, as most of us tend to trade up bodies long before we trade in lenses, and buying high-quality lenses right from the get-go pays off in the end.

Definitely get back into the store as soon as you can and send time handling more bodies and lenses, chatting with the sales personnel about advantages and disadvantages of various things, etc. Whatever you wind up buying you will also need and want at least a couple of memory cards, plus a spare battery or two, and you also might prefer to select a neck strap or wrist strap rather than going with whatever is provided with the camera if there is one. Whenever I purchase a new camera I just leave the provided strap in the box because I don't like walking around with a neck strap blazing the brand name. Aside from that, most straps provided by the manufacturer aren't all that comfortable for some reason. There are various companies which make straps: neck straps, sling straps, cross-body straps, wrist straps, whatever.....

Also at some point you may also want to purchase a camera bag or backpack for carrying gear when going further afield than simply around your home area and when you eventually have more than one lens. But first, get yourself a nice camera and good lens and start shooting!

Ah, so the "Ed" in your username stands for "Edinburgh"?!! OK, I'll stop calling you "Ed," then, as I'd assumed (erroneously, obviously) that it was your name! LOL!

All good advice.

If you'll be my bodyguard
I can be your long lost pal
I can call you Betty
And Betty, when you call me, you can call me Ed

 

[martint235]

As several here know, I have been posting photographs using iPhone6, iPhone7 & latterly iPhone 12 Pro. Unless the iPhone 15 range something else v.special, it might be only the camera quality which prompts me to upgrade.

I am therefore thinking instead of using the money saved to buy a dedicated digital camera, probably one which I would readily take with me (perhaps not always) and with which I could begin a learning curve.

I think I've learnt a lot and have been 'an improver' with the benefit of the [camera I have with me] iPhone, but this will be new ground.

Clearly I could go pocket compact. However, I've been reviewing 'body only' options to buy second-hand from eBay and the like. But I realise that I'll probably need to ask about a 'starter lens'.

The (UK) consumer magazine Which has presented me with a much larger array of full frame, mirrorless and bridge options which it has reviewed but I thought I should tap into the experience of your good selves.

Any recommendations? Thus far, I've been prompted by friends to look at Olympus PEN E-PL10 (or 8 or 9), panasonic lumix dmc-fz1000 and the (older) Sony A7II

I’m a novice photographer with a Nikon D5600 so can’t really offer much advice other than for lenses/bodies etc mbp.com is well worth a look

 

[StrollerEd]

The X-T2 will have a very similar layout, but just an older (but capable) sensor and processor. If you find that Fuji is the right fit, build up a decent lens catalog, and set your sights on the X-T5 down the road (and it will just get cheaper with time).

I've looked at the reviews of the X-T2 and the X-T2/X-T3 comparisons and I think that would be a good choice, especially as I can source the X-T2, ranging from £380 to £420, depending on condition and what it is supplied:
1) grade 8/10 with Оrіgіnаl bох, Наhnеl НL-F126Ѕ Ваttеrу, Fuјіfіlm ВС-W126Ѕ Ваttеrу Сhаrgеr, Fuјі Ѕhоuldеr Ѕtrар, Сlір Аttасhіng Тооl, Fuјіfіlm Воdу Сар, Ѕоftwаrе аnd Маnuаl
2) Excellent but Non Fuji Battery only (Missing Charger)
3) Excellent with BC-W126 Battery Charger, Fujifilm Eyecup, Third party NP-W126s Battery, X Front Body Cap

I'm tempted to go with the first as it has the complete package but more importantly it is available from a branch of a locally accessible store so I might get some support.

I can also obtain the first version of the Fujifilm XF 27mm f2.8 but the later XF 27mm f2.8 R WR is proving elusive.

 

[Clix Pix]

What image editing software do you use, or plan to use? Something else to be thinking about, along with your camera choice!