This is not a "Pro" machine.

[flat five]

yeah, i don't know.

i guess when you realize youre no longer debating the subforum title and instead, arguing about people's personality and/or argument technique --maybe that's when it's time to throw in the towel..

see you guys in a few months

##

 

[OS6-OSX]

see you guys in a few months

##

The debate about the nMP being a "Pro" machine can go on ad infinitum. The one thing that will come to past is the price. There will be an entire different set of debates at that time.

 

[MattInOz]

If I get a new Mac Pro, I'll probably bolt it to the underside of my desk, upside-down.

That way:

1. I won't knock it over on the desk (it looks very light and tippy)
2. Dust will be minimized as it will suck from the underside of a desk (with nowhere for dust to accumulate) and any that does blows downward
3. It will heat my feet in winter
4. Thunderbolt, USB3 and the other ports will be more able to swivel around without catching on the edge of a desk
5. My desk can remain clear of most cables by putting peripherals on either the edge of the desk, or on a small end table beside my desk
6. Fan noise (even if it's only a single fan) will be reduced by being behind my big, flat 1.5" thick desk

There are probably more benefits to upside-down bolting to underside of a desk, but that's what came off the top of my head.

My first thought was cool.
Then downpipe brackets would work, I wonder if you can get them that diameter. So looked at Apples website and realized just how tiny this machine is.

 

[Erasmus]

If I get a new Mac Pro, I'll probably bolt it to the underside of my desk, upside-down.

Just saying, but it would have a small effect on your computer's temperature, as the convection flow through the computer and the fan would be working against each other. Also, you run the risk of just recirculating the air under your desk through the computer, resulting in hot pants, and hot computer.

But I guess the alternative 2-3 years of dusty crap buildup from having it above the desk would counter that argument for all but the most o/c of clean-freaks.

 

[ValSalva]

The debate about the nMP being a "Pro" machine can go on ad infinitum. The one thing that will come to past is the price. There will be an entire different set of debates at that time.

Price will be key, obviously. When it's crazy expensive then it will definitely be a "Pro" machine because only "Pros" and well heeled enthusiasts will be able to afford it 😀

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Well, if it'll work in a 11" MBA, you can be sure it'll work on the new MacPro.

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/3...graphics-card-with-complex-thunderbolt-setup/

 

[slughead]

Well, if it'll work in a 11" MBA, you can be sure it'll work on the new MacPro.

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/3...graphics-card-with-complex-thunderbolt-setup/

If you don't mind a huge bottleneck, sure (PS: PCIe 4x 2.0 = TB2). By the way, as cards get faster, bigger bottlenecks will emerge. Try a Titan, GTX780, or GTX690 over TB2 and prepare to ride the fail train. (also note: these cards are here. now. today. 2 years from now when you want to upgrade your mac pro, imagine the bottleneck 2GBps will bring to those cards).

TL;DR: If you're planning to "upgrade" your 2014 mac with a GTX570, everything will be fine. If you want an actual "upgrade," it probably wont work.

 

[MacVidCards]

Well, if it'll work in a 11" MBA, you can be sure it'll work on the new MacPro.

https://www.macrumors.com/2013/07/3...graphics-card-with-complex-thunderbolt-setup/

Can you say "Amateur Hour"?

As any number of Pros have posted here, only a total newb would use their own local storage to run a program. He SHOULD be using a dedicated Fiber card over TB to export his game frames over to his enterprise storage before it goes out on a T2 to a render farm. Thats what a Real Pro would do.

Then he could have a cup of coffee whilst it all got rendered. At which point he could download the completed file and view it at his leisure and see how the game went.

People who use their own machine to render should be FIRED for their inability to adopt a "modern" workflow as explained by Pros who know the answers. Thank goodness he only has 1 socket in that MBA or he'd really be hearing about it.

Netkas tried this same thing months back but could not overcome the numerous hurdles in OSX. Intel & Apple want to control when and how we use TB and make sure we don't shortchange them from any marketing opportunities.

When they decide that we can use TB for GPUs it will happen.

 

[MatthewAMEL]

Can you say "Amateur Hour"?

We all understand you are terrified Apple is threatening your livelihood.

But it looks like a rank amateur was able to get a PC NVIDIA card running with a MBA (through multiple adapters, in fact).

Let the users decide if the flexibility is worth the performance hit.

 

[tuxon86]

We all understand you are terrified Apple is threatening your livelihood.

But it looks like a rank amateur was able to get a PC NVIDIA card running with a MBA (through multiple adapters, in fact).

Let the users decide if the flexibility is worth the performance hit.

You do know that you can buy a vidcard to tb enclosure already and have been able to do so for a while now. The guy didn't invent ****. And the performance aren't really worth the price. You are better getting a cmbp or rmbp with dGpu if you need better perf than iGpu.

 

[MacVidCards]

We all understand you are terrified Apple is threatening your livelihood.

But it looks like a rank amateur was able to get a PC NVIDIA card running with a MBA (through multiple adapters, in fact).

Let the users decide if the flexibility is worth the performance hit.

Please re read my post.

I believe that you have misunderstood my post entirely.

I am not slamming the guy at all but rather using sarcasm to impune some spurious debate points used here recently.

It's great the guy did this, but people have been able to use TB enclosures to run GPUs in Windows for some time, it is only in OSX that it is troublesome/ impossible.

 

[HurryKayne]

Can you say "Amateur Hour"?

As any number of Pros have posted here, only a total newb would use their own local storage to run a program. He SHOULD be using a dedicated Fiber card over TB to export his game frames over to his enterprise storage before it goes out on a T2 to a render farm. Thats what a Real Pro would do.

Then he could have a cup of coffee whilst it all got rendered. At which point he could download the completed file and view it at his leisure and see how the game went.

People who use their own machine to render should be FIRED for their inability to adopt a "modern" workflow as explained by Pros who know the answers. Thank goodness he only has 1 socket in that MBA or he'd really be hearing about it.

Netkas tried this same thing months back but could not overcome the numerous hurdles in OSX. Intel & Apple want to control when and how we use TB and make sure we don't shortchange them from any marketing opportunities.

When they decide that we can use TB for GPUs it will happen.

I hope when they will understand that with all the Iris from here to 2018 won't ever able to reach a real Gpu Card,that day maybe it will be announced a TB4 with Pci Express 3.0 capabilities... .
Just a Joke.I heard that PS4 and XBoxOne have the same specs or close and that their architecture is quite close to a real pc...what if someone could be able to hackintosh them?That would be a very powerful "mac mini pro" isn'it?

 

[tuxon86]

I hope when they will understand that with all the Iris from here to 2018 won't ever able to reach a real Gpu Card,that day maybe it will be announced a TB4 with Pci Express 3.0 capabilities... .
Just a Joke.I heard that PS4 and XBoxOne have the same specs or close and that their architecture is quite close to a real pc...what if someone could be able to hackintosh them?That would be a very powerful "mac mini pro" isn'it?

Those machine are locked down by design. You don't have access to the hardware from the software side unless it goes through a protection layer (hypervisor) that can't be removed or bypassed. Even when the PS3 gave us the option of installing Linux on it, we didn't get access to the video framebuffer for exemple which really limited it's usefulness from a homebrew side of thing. Think of it as running something in a lock down VM.

And beside, the fact that they are close to being a PC isn'T anything new. The first XBox was a PC running Windows CE and so was the Sega DreamCast. I know plenty of guy who used the Dreamcast as a network sniffer...

 

[goMac]

As any number of Pros have posted here, only a total newb would use their own local storage to run a program. He SHOULD be using a dedicated Fiber card over TB to export his game frames over to his enterprise storage before it goes out on a T2 to a render farm. Thats what a Real Pro would do.

Then he could have a cup of coffee whilst it all got rendered. At which point he could download the completed file and view it at his leisure and see how the game went.

Oh boy.

I don't think it was ever seriously suggested that a game should be sent to a server farm. That would be a straw man.

I don't think anyone has also seriously suggested the Mac Pro is a bad gaming machine either, so I'm not sure where that is coming from. Dual FirePros on Crossfire (under Bootcamp) will thrash most anything besides a dual Titan box.

 

[dukesup1978]

if you don't like it get a PC or buy an old Mac Pro while they last.

I've been looking to upgrade my current gear for some time now, was waiting on the release of this new Mar Pro but now that they've revealed disappointing specs, I'm uncertain. Currently I mix and record on my MacBook Pro (using software such as Ableton Live, ProTools, Cubase) but really want to upgrade to a desktop.

I'm interested to hear opinions on other computer options rated highly for working with Pro Audio, the more specific the better - PC's included, as not sure how I would go about getting my hands on an current/older Mac Pro..

I'm hesitant to go the Hackintosh route as I am a total n00b in that respect.

I would love to hear any advice and suggestions.

 

[NorCalLights]

I would love to hear any advice and suggestions.

Okay here are some suggestions:

•Stop worrying about specs, and start worrying about performance (and spend the time to understand the difference). If a new computer offers a performance increase that you can afford, buy that new computer. If for any reason a new computer does not offer a performance increase in a category that you require, do not buy it.

•A computer that requires "hacking" is not a computer you should use for your job. When a client is breathing down your neck about a deadline, and your computer won't boot up because of a kernel extension conflict, who are you going to call?

I have a feeling that the new Mac Pro is going to offer a level of performance for Pro Audio applications that crushes anything that we've seen, and as developers embrace OpenCL more and more, the sky is the limit. And since you're already working on a laptop, I'm betting that you already know that internal storage is overrated.

 

[goMac]

I would love to hear any advice and suggestions.

I'm not sure what about the new Mac Pro would make it a bad choice for you? The core count is still very high, it can still hold more than enough memory, and the disk access speeds (which are important in audio) are extremely fast. And with the number of Thunderbolt ports you can connect it to plenty of audio devices.

I mean, you work on a Macbook Pro right now, and a new Mac Pro is hands down far faster.

 

[derbothaus]

Dual FirePros on Crossfire (under Bootcamp) will thrash most anything besides a dual Titan box.

Not from everything I have seen. Why people keep repeating this is beyond me. 1 Titan will easily thrash 2 Firepro's or 2 Quadro's. They suck for DirectX which is what you will be running if you expect Xfire to work. Maybe a few titles in OpenGL which may get closer but not close enough after the scaling loss and driver problems you will have. 1 GTX680 blows all the current workstation cards out of the gaming water as it is. Don't even need to get GK114 involved. Epic wasted ROI playing games on the new Mac Pro. The current MP is 200% cheaper even if you buy the official overpriced cards.

 

[goMac]

Not from everything I have seen. Why people keep repeating this is beyond me. 1 Titan will easily thrash 2 Firepro's or 2 Quadro's. They suck for DirectX which is what you will be running if you expect Xfire to work. Maybe a few titles in OpenGL which may get closer but not close enough after the scaling loss and driver problems you will have. 1 GTX680 blows all the current workstation cards out of the gaming water as it is. Don't even need to get GK114 involved. Epic wasted ROI playing games on the new Mac Pro. The current MP is 200% cheaper even if you buy the official overpriced cards.

I doubt it. A Titan isn't THAT much faster than a FirePro.

7970 is probably the FirePro we're looking at. There hasn't been any difference in DirectX benches between the FirePro and the 7970.

 

[clamnectar]

Not from everything I have seen. Why people keep repeating this is beyond me. 1 Titan will easily thrash 2 Firepro's or 2 Quadro's. They suck for DirectX which is what you will be running if you expect Xfire to work. Maybe a few titles in OpenGL which may get closer but not close enough after the scaling loss and driver problems you will have. 1 GTX680 blows all the current workstation cards out of the gaming water as it is. Don't even need to get GK114 involved. Epic wasted ROI playing games on the new Mac Pro. The current MP is 200% cheaper even if you buy the official overpriced cards.

ROI? Let's get real, if you're buying graphics cards to game with, you're not "investing," and you're not going to get a "return" on this imaginary "investment." It's consumption, plain and simple.

 

[Brian Y]

Can you say "Amateur Hour"?

As any number of Pros have posted here, only a total newb would use their own local storage to run a program. He SHOULD be using a dedicated Fiber card over TB to export his game frames over to his enterprise storage before it goes out on a T2 to a render farm. Thats what a Real Pro would do.

Then he could have a cup of coffee whilst it all got rendered. At which point he could download the completed file and view it at his leisure and see how the game went.

People who use their own machine to render should be FIRED for their inability to adopt a "modern" workflow as explained by Pros who know the answers. Thank goodness he only has 1 socket in that MBA or he'd really be hearing about it.

Netkas tried this same thing months back but could not overcome the numerous hurdles in OSX. Intel & Apple want to control when and how we use TB and make sure we don't shortchange them from any marketing opportunities.

When they decide that we can use TB for GPUs it will happen.

So in one post you're saying how the new Mac Pro cannot be a pro machine because you can't expand its storage, etc internally - and then you go on to say anyone that works locally cannot be a pro and should be fired??! :s

Truth is - times are changing. It's no longer necessary to have a crapload of local power. Heck, I could do my job with a pentium 2 machine if I needed - as long as I can remote into our more powerful server. Anybody who's bitching about the lack of expandability in the mac pro needs to move with the times. You can have a Mac Pro, with 5 or 6 thunderbolt devices, and its footprint will still be smaller than the old one.

 

[slughead]

I doubt it. A Titan isn't THAT much faster than a FirePro.

Image

7970 is probably the FirePro we're looking at. There hasn't been any difference in DirectX benches between the FirePro and the 7970.

... And you can see how well dual GPUs scale from that graph. The 7970 scores, on that particular game, as well as the GTX680. Then you see the GTX690 with only 30% more FPS. Also, Crossfire has huge frame rate variability over SLI. Likely, 2 7970 will be faster than a single Titan, but not much faster.

IIRC the Titan, GTX780, and GTX690 pull away from the rest of the market in several other games. That is one reason why I bought a GTX780.

Edit: Yep.

 

[HurryKayne]

Those machine are locked down by design. You don't have access to the hardware from the software side unless it goes through a protection layer (hypervisor) that can't be removed or bypassed. Even when the PS3 gave us the option of installing Linux on it, we didn't get access to the video framebuffer for exemple which really limited it's usefulness from a homebrew side of thing. Think of it as running something in a lock down VM.

And beside, the fact that they are close to being a PC isn'T anything new. The first XBox was a PC running Windows CE and so was the Sega DreamCast. I know plenty of guy who used the Dreamcast as a network sniffer...

I know,but who knows^^?

 

[-hh]

So in one post you're saying how the new Mac Pro cannot be a pro machine because you can't expand its storage, etc internally - and then you go on to say anyone that works locally cannot be a pro and should be fired??! :s

Probably not the best post to try to interpret literally .. it was illustrating in aggregate many of the claims which have been bouncing around for ~2 months (which isn't necessarily an endorsement of any of those claims).

Truth is - times are changing.

But of course.

It's no longer necessary to have a crapload of local power. Heck, I could do my job with a pentium 2 machine if I needed - as long as I can remote into our more powerful server.

Yes, that's a reasonble illustration of one of the Use Cases ... and because that remote server isn't cheap .. nor the fast interconnect to it (probably Fibre Channel) ... nor to data storage (ibid) ... this isn't really a setup that one can expect to find in the Small/Medium Business (SMB) environment because there's not enough employees/work to amortize and justify that level of centralized IT investment.

Anybody who's bitching about the lack of expandability in the mac pro needs to move with the times. You can have a Mac Pro, with 5 or 6 thunderbolt devices, and its footprint will still be smaller than the old one.

Size is merely one metric. Cost is another.

Particularly for the SMB Use Case where the computation horsepower is still going to be localized, the recurring concern with the nMP and its externalization strategy isn't that one can't provision the capability - - it is that said provisioning is significantly more costly. That adversely affects the ROI and overall 'value' of the new hardware, which makes it a harder business decision to swallow.

For but a simple example, given the current state-of-the-shelf prices which is what a business is compelled to apply for contemporary business decisions, the effective "Thunderbot Tax" for taking four internal HDDs and putting them into an external TB cabinet is analogus to the retail difference between 4 x 1TB HDDs (~$300) versus a Promise Pegasus 4 x 1TB R4 peripheral (~$960).

Granted, we can choose to say that an extra $650 is insignificant to our overall business scheme and priorities, but that usually is again centric to larger businesses and not to SMBs and especially not to one man shops where that $650 expense is literally taken straight out of his paycheck.

The overarching implications of all of this is that it appears that Apple has focused the nMP for larger business enterprises and to the detriment of the SMB and one man operations (which includes 'Prosumers').

And given that Macs in the Enterprise has been a recurring and chronic weakness in Apple's corporate structure and priorities for the past 20+ years, this move is either a very interesting 'tell' for their future intentions or potentially a very grave strategic error. Time will tell.


-hh

 

[derbothaus]

ROI? Let's get real, if you're buying graphics cards to game with, you're not "investing," and you're not going to get a "return" on this imaginary "investment." It's consumption, plain and simple.

No. It is what you pay vs. how much you get out of it. $1000.00 more for 5FPS is not a great, granted, short term purchase. If I can spend $25.00 for those same 5FPS, isn't that the better deal? Maybe 'investment' threw you off on your little day trader tirade. Let's call it 'return on fun' then.