iPhone XS Max This is why the new iPhones are failing

[davedvdy]

If your product is too good, in the long run you will lose sales. The only way to get more sales is to use visually features in the new phones and don't make them available to the old ones. New features shouldn't be available in old phones. Updates can be available for old phones but not features.

It would help if you were more specific. Which features specifically should be removed from older iPhones? (according to you). iOS is already very simple, esp. compared to Android. Can you cite some specific examples? The iPhone 7 is still in the current line up, mind you. Everything iP7 and up are models that can be purchased new in a box from Apple (aside from the X). They are wise keeping older phones in the line up for those that cannot afford to spend 1k+ for a phone (or don't want to), aside from the XR which is hardly a budget phone either (it's just more affordable). One of the "features" or justifications for many of us sticking with Apple is the OS update support.

 

[44267547]

There’s an awful lot of tech people here on Mac Rumours who don’t upgrade to the latest tech but are still passionate about technology. Best not to assume those of us on older devices aren’t tech people, that’s a slippery slope.

True. And I have read where a multitude of ‘heavy upgraders’ have held off from upgrading due to the influx of prices across Apple’s product line. If anything, they will upgrade maybe every other year versus every year for various products. Apple makes the best products, their customer service is highly rated, but for some, the prices are keeping some at bay from upgrading when they want to, and they can afford it, they just can’t justify the prices.

With the iPhone, it’s a Great device, but I don’t _need_ the latest iPhone every year, especially when they all really accomplish the tasks.

 

[rdillon2008]

So are you suggesting software updates with any new features should be ended within a year of an iPhone being released? That sounds rather crap when you’ve paid hundreds for a phone with the intention of keeping it a couple of years. Surely that would be even more off-putting for the consumer in the market for an iPhone? Sorry that’s a terrible idea.

I am saying no every feature should be including for old phones in an update
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It would help if you were more specific. Which features specifically should be removed from older iPhones? (according to you). iOS is already very simple, esp. compared to Android. Can you cite some specific examples? The iPhone 7 is still in the current line up, mind you. Everything iP7 and up are models that can be purchased new in a box from Apple (aside from the X). They are wise keeping older phones in the line up for those that cannot afford to spend 1k+ for a phone, aside from the XR which is hardly a budget phone either (it's just more affordable). One of the "features" or justifications for many of us sticking with Apple is the OS update support.

I don't want them to be removed. I am just stating that for future new features, old phones should not have them in the os update. The biggest problem now is that those who have the xs max won't upgrade for 3-4 years. Apple will have to release a MAJOR overhaul to sell phones next year.

 

[davedvdy]

I don't want them to be removed. I am just stating that for future new features, old phones should not have them in the os update. The biggest problem now is that those who have the xs max won't upgrade for 3-4 years. Apple will have to release a MAJOR overhaul to sell phones next year.

Apple already releases exclusive features only to the newer models. This year among other things with the hardware improvements, it's Smart HDR and stereo recording, but it's an incremental update for a yearly update anyway. iP4 to 4S gave people Siri and that was very minor at best.

Even if you don't get all the new "features" of the new models, what difference will it really make? You can make calls, check your emails, use iMessage or text people, snap photos, use apps, play games, watch movies, browse the internet, from the same device. Smartphone technology has plateaued and with the higher prices, people aren't as excited to purchase phones anyway. A $300 Moto Z3 Play smartphone can essentially perform most of the main functions of a $1000+ smartphone reliably. It actually can do things iOS can't too (many of us purchase iPhones though since we prefer the Apple ecosystem and have invested lots of $ into it over the years).

Apple always adds software features not available to older models, that's why I asked you what features people are receiving that are stopping people from upgrading.
It's still up to Apple to bring some revolutionary feature to a new device to incentivize people to purchase. If the phone is out of budget reach or not justifiable, it's irrelevant too regardless of that "exclusivity" and feature.

 

[dazz87]

Many people who don't upgrade is because they use their phones differently from tech people. I for one, knows that face ID and other features is something a few will try out such as myself. I just love new things!.

Are you kidding me? So tech people will use their phone differently vs. non tech people? Keep up the trolling.

 

[tromboneaholic]

There’s an awful lot of tech people here on Mac Rumours who don’t upgrade to the latest tech but are still passionate about technology. Best not to assume those of us on older devices aren’t tech people, that’s a slippery slope.

I can agree with you on that. My laptop is a 2011 MacBook Pro and my desktop a 2013 iMac.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I am saying no every feature should be including for old phones in an update

A huge part of owning an iPhone is seeing how the interface evolves and what new features you get each update.

I don’t want my experience stifled just so you feel better about buying an iPhone every year thanks. We pay good money and expect a decent level of service.

 

[StellarVixen]

I think Apple has the iPhone XS/Max sales just where they want them to be.
It is the XR that is their main problem.

And who needs 512 GB on a phone? Especially on the OS that restricted. If you are using the phone as your main device for everything, I am sorry for all the pain that you are inflicting to yourself, I hope that soon you will realize it is not necessary.
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Apple needs to start cutting features from older devices. There is no way they should offer new features to old and new phones. Give people features so it is worth upgrading to

Then you will complain about the planed obsolescence.

 

[Hernan4651]

He does the same thing almost every single year.

He estimates high sales every year, and Apple stock goes up. Then he starts cutting his own estimates, and Apple stock goes down.

His sources for new product leaks at Foxconn don't give him special insight into actual sales, as previous years have already demonstrated.

Sure, but if you add that fact to some other information, it's consistent with lower than expected sales.
New prod lines not in use, suppliers reporting a lost in revenue , etc

 

[davedvdy]

A huge part of owning an iPhone is seeing how the interface evolves and what new features you get each update.

I don’t want my experience stifled just so you feel better about buying an iPhone every year thanks. We pay good money and expect a decent level of service.

Yeah, exactly. Also, I hardly think we need to find creative ways for a trillion dollar company to milk us out of more money. The Company that doesn't include a $9 dongle in the box, or a fast charger even with a $999+ smartphone.

 

[Hal~9000]

Yeah, exactly. Also, I hardly think we need to find creative ways for a trillion dollar company to milk us out of more money. The Company that doesn't include a $9 dongle in the box, or a fast charger even with a $999+ smartphone.

Yeah, for example the OnePlus 6t has the following included for free with their $549 flagship:

• Premium Fast Charger
• Headphone Adapter
• Protective TPU Case
• Pre-installed Screen Protector

Just goes to show you how little Apple cares about providing value for their customers nowadays. They'd rather rest on their laurels, nickle-and-diming us as much as possible in the name of higher profits and CEO bonuses

 

[tromboneaholic]

Yeah, for example the OnePlus 6t has the following included for free with their $549 flagship:

• Premium Fast Charger
• Headphone Adapter
• Protective TPU Case
• Pre-installed Screen Protector

Just goes to show you how little Apple cares about providing value for their customers nowadays. They'd rather rest on their laurels, nickle-and-diming us as much as possible in the name of higher profits and CEO bonuses

I bought iPhone X and think those items you listed suck. There is a reason the 6t is not selling despite the junk they include.

Screen protector? I’ve never used one since my first iPhone (4s).

TPU case? My phone feels great in my hand. Stainless steel and glass feel better than plastic. I only used a case with my 5s and 6 because of the aluminum backs.

Headphone adapter? Apple probably gave away 200 million of those. The rest of us are using wireless solutions.

Fast Charger? I drop my phone on a wireless charger and don’t miss plugging and unplugging my phone 700 times a year.

 

[pixel_junkie]

I bought iPhone X and think those items you listed suck. There is a reason the 6t is not selling despite the junk they include.

Screen protector? I’ve never used one since my first iPhone (4s).

TPU case? My phone feels great in my hand. Stainless steel and glass feel better than plastic. I only used a case with my 5s and 6 because of the aluminum backs.

Headphone adapter? Apple probably gave away 200 million of those. The rest of us are using wireless solutions.

Fast Charger? I drop my phone on a wireless charger and don’t miss plugging and unplugging my phone 700 times a year.

Oneplus is a brand name you’ll be hearing a lot in the near future. I’m pretty sure. Any company who centers their business around the consumers needs (the way Apple used to be) is bound to do well. Sales of the 6t are beating every conservative estimate by the way. Get your facts straight.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Oneplus is a brand name you’ll be hearing a lot in the near future. I’m pretty sure. Any company who centers their business around the consumers needs (the way Apple used to be) is bound to do well. Sales of the 6t are beating every conservative estimate by the way. Get your facts straight.

Any company who competes on price loses their customers to the next company that competes on price.

That rule started when we charged for twigs.

 

[Ffosse]

My wife and I use our phones a LOT. Screen time is a slap in the face to some of us. For a device that is used every day, spending that much money makes sense for some.

Coming from the 8+, my wife and I got the Xs MAX. Yeah the monthly Apple Upgrade Plan went up to $72/mo but the extra space is nice and the screen is amazing. Camera is noticeably better in the shots we take. If I had to do it over again, I might have kept the 8+.

At least that's our goal now with the Xs MAX - we'll be keeping these till 2020 and then maybe another year or two, especially with the price we had to pay.

If I had a 6s+ or a 7+, I'd probably get the Xs MAX. 8+? Definitely not. But it's always been that way, best to keep your phone a few generations if you can stand it. The Apple Upgrade Plan makes it easier to swallow but definitely makes Apple some money.

If people are holding back now, us Xs Max owners won't be upgrading for some time (at least the majority of us I would assume, lol). Personally, I'm aiming for 3-4 years for my phone.

Just buy the iPhone you want outright.

I've never had a contract.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Any company who competes on price loses their customers to the next company that competes on price.

That rule started when we charged for twigs.

Apple are currently way above in terms of fixed prices and they are not offering much in the way of tempting is to buy the pricier models.

So if companies who compete on price and offer extras that are attractive ultimately lose out to similar companies, what happens to a company that doesn’t offer more but charges an extra premium? Long term I think the market will demand more for our money. Things feel like they are continuing to level off and even Apple will have to react in the next couple of years.

 

[akash.nu]

Apple are currently way above in terms of fixed prices and they are not offering much in the way of tempting is to buy the pricier models.

So if companies who compete on price and offer extras that are attractive ultimately lose out to similar companies, what happens to a company that doesn’t offer more but charges an extra premium? Long term I think the market will demand more for our money. Things feel like they are continuing to level off and even Apple will have to react in the next couple of years.

Competing in price is going down the rabbit hole. But by cheapening your product a business loses the credibility of “value”. This is a very well known business economic reality. Selling product for cheap will never bring a business to where Apple has reached. Cheap pricing strategy is a very shortsighted game.

Yes the market is saturated and that’s why Apple has already shifted their focus to providing services. Apple is a consumer tech company, not a smartphone manufacturing company. iPhone just happened to be the tech they went into & made a fortune out of it. So was iPods, so is Apple Watch and HomePod.

iTunes & AppStore make billions at present.

All the other manufacturers people bring out to compare with Apple are fundamentally smartphone manufacturers. Small players don’t have much to compete with Apple or Samsung. All the smaller smartphone companies are just competing with each other, they know this very well.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Competing in price is going down the rabbit hole. But by cheapening your product a business loses the credibility of “value”. This is a very well known business economic reality. Selling product for cheap will never bring a business to where Apple has reached. Cheap pricing strategy is a very shortsighted game.

Yes the market is saturated and that’s why Apple has already shifted their focus to providing services. Apple is a consumer tech company, not a smartphone manufacturing company. iPhone just happened to be the tech they went into & made a fortune out of it. So was iPods, so is Apple Watch and HomePod.

iTunes & AppStore make billions at present.

All the other manufacturers people bring out to compare with Apple are fundamentally smartphone manufacturers. Small players don’t have much to compete with Apple or Samsung. All the smaller smartphone companies are just competing with each other, they know this very well.

I wasn’t suggesting they sell iPhones ‘cheap’. No iPhone in their history has ever been cheap. I’m talking premium but realistic to attract their existing user base and more, not selective niches.

 

[PeteS1963]

True. And I have read where a multitude of ‘heavy upgraders’ have held off from upgrading due to the influx of prices across Apple’s product line. If anything, they will upgrade maybe every other year versus every year for various products. Apple makes the best products, their customer service is highly rated, but for some, the prices are keeping some at bay from upgrading when they want to, and they can afford it, they just can’t justify the prices.

With the iPhone, it’s a Great device, but I don’t _need_ the latest iPhone every year, especially when they all really accomplish the tasks.

Agree. The other issue that has an impact is the number of other “accessories”. At the time of the iPhone 6 I had a phone, iPad and Mac.

Now I have an iPhone, Watch (plus band collection), AirPods, iPad (with Pencil & keyboard), HomeKit house lighting, Mac... I’m sure I’ve forgotten something! These accessories are relatively new additions to my tech budget and they certainly aren’t cheap. And, as an example, if I want a new iPad I’m more likely to hold onto my phone for longer.

 

[Ffosse]

That's pretty much their entire niche.

 

[davedvdy]

Any company who competes on price loses their customers to the next company that competes on price.

That rule started when we charged for twigs.

I could see that logic applying if all you go for is price in your business model. I don't see how that applies, when you have a successful product, despite there being offerings at less than half the price from even much more well known manufacturers such as Motorola (Z3 @ $250). They have built a solid reputation in the last 4 years, with great reviews.

They know how to give people most of what they want (premium hardware, true all day battery life, OLED HD panel, OS updates), and cut just the right amount of corners (no official IP water rating, wireless charging or stereo sound). Even people that want those features may be willing to sacrifice them for the value they see in what they still compromise to get for that aggressive price point.
People line up for Oneplus phones...probably the first Android phone I've seen a lot of people line up for in a report.

 

[Ffosse]

I wouldn't swap my XR for a Oneplus or even a Galaxy Note 9.

 

[davedvdy]

I wouldn't swap my XR for a Oneplus or even a Galaxy Note 9.

I wouldn't either cause of having so much invested in the Apple ecosystem and the excellent integration with the other Apple lines, especially the Macbook Pro. I also found Rene Ritchie's video disturbing on Android sucking 10x the amount of data out of the phones for analytics and research. Someone who prefers and is heavily invested in Android could easily find the value of those phones though.

 

[Ffosse]

It's just that every android phone I've had has developed a problem whereas none of my iPhones have. iPhones get slated for being for a more senior userbase. But for me they are simple, powerful and elegant.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Just buy the iPhone you want outright.

I've never had a contract.

That’s easier said than done. Parting with hundreds or now a thousand plus for a phone outright doesn’t always feel like you’re getting it cheaper even if you save a hundred here and there overall. You could buy it on an interest free credit card I suppose but contracts do make it easier for people as a whole package. I always buy on contract as it suits my monthly spending habits. If I was faced with paying outright I’d probably not be at all interested in smartphones at all.