This mythical hybrid device

[Rogifan]

To push the envelope in personal computing. Having a single device that can be used for casual/consumption computing as well as content creation and productivity is growing in appeal as the waves of people's daily lives ebb and flow between "work" and "leisure" throughout the course of a day.

Of all of the 2-in-1 devices and attempts at "converged" devices that I've owned over the years, I could definitely see the benefits of one that is done right. So far, none have been done right... they usually fall more heavily on one side or the other... more of a notebook than a tablet, or vice versa.

OK but how does one get done right? I love my iPad Pro and use it all the time. But to make it equivalent to the laptop I use for work would degrade what I like most about it (ease of use, weight, portability). I don’t think this mythical perfect device exists or ever will. And that’s OK. In my kitchen I have a stove, microwave and toaster oven. They all serve their purpose. What’s wrong with having a tool for productivity and one for consumption (that could replace the productivity tool for many people)?

 

[Dave245]

It all depends on individual usecases. No One device / company can satisfy everyone. As a company it’s better to live with that a concentrate on one focussed direction / goal than try to satisfy everyone and be the jack of all.

Certainly, nobody not even Apple can satisfy everyone that’s why Samsung also does well in the Smartphone market. I do much prefer Apple products because of my positive experience with them over the years. Not everyone will think the same which is a good thing otherwise these threads and forums would be very boring.

 

[Rogifan]

Very well said. Why does anyone assume Apple WANTS to sell you one device to rule them all? They don’t. They want to sell you a laptop, and a tablet, and a phone, and a watch, and a streaming tv box, and a home speaker...

Considering the iOS install base clearly the majority of iOS users don’t own a Mac. Apple wants to sell you the right tool for the job. If you buy multiple tools from them all the better but they’re not designing their devices to make you have to own them all.

 

[Dave245]

Considering the iOS install base clearly the majority of iOS users don’t own a Mac. Apple wants to sell you the right tool for the job. If you buy multiple tools from them all the better but they’re not designing their devices to make you have to own them all.

That’s true, a lot of people just use an iPad Pro instead of a laptop some even use an earlier version of the iPad.

Personally I do still like to use a Mac my 2012 iMac gets used daily when at home. My Apple Watch I love for fitness and so on, Apple TV for watching my iTunes content and my HomePod because it sounds great and I love to use Apple Music. The one thing that I’m sure of is how well the Apple ecosystem works whether you own 2 Apple devices or 6.

 

[Rogifan]

That’s true, a lot of people just use an iPad Pro instead of a laptop some even use an earlier version of the iPad.

Personally I do still like to use a Mac my 2012 iMac gets used daily when at home. My Apple Watch I love for fitness and so on, Apple TV for watching my iTunes content and my HomePod because it sounds great and I love to use Apple Music. The one thing that I’m sure of is how well the Apple ecosystem works whether you own 2 Apple devices or 6.

I get the feeling this hybrid device would mostly appeal to those whose primary device is a Mac laptop. Instead I’d like to see Apple just fix certain pain points with iPad that might satisfy them enough. Like allow podcasting support on iPad Pro. Or if you hook up an external keyboard have better cursor and shortcuts support. I think there are small things they can do that wouldn’t over complicate the iPad for the majority of people who use it. And also wouldn’t introduce another piece of hardware that Apple has to maintain/support/update. And a piece of hardware that would complicate product lines and confuse most users.

 

[Dave245]

I get the feeling this hybrid device would mostly appeal to those whose primary device is a Mac laptop. Instead I’d like to see Apple just fix certain pain points with iPad that might satisfy them enough. Like allow podcasting support on iPad Pro. Or if you hook up an external keyboard have better cursor and shortcuts support. I think there are small things they can do that wouldn’t over complicate the iPad for the majority of people who use it. And also wouldn’t introduce another piece of hardware that Apple has to maintain/support/update. And a piece of hardware that would complicate product lines and confuse most users.

I think Apple will continue to make the iPad Pro more laptop like but not fully, they added certain features in last years IOS that was heading that direction. I still think for as long as there's no apps like Final Cut X for the iPad Pro that many professionals will still need Mac devices.

I may not be the professional market that Apple aims at (i'm a writer so MacBook Pro might be over-kill for me) but i do own an iPad Pro that i use for drawing, taking hand written notes and so on BUT i do still love to use a Mac as well.

 

[muzzy996]

Considering the iOS install base clearly the majority of iOS users don’t own a Mac. Apple wants to sell you the right tool for the job. If you buy multiple tools from them all the better but they’re not designing their devices to make you have to own them all.

True for iPhones and iPads but not for all products...Apple Watch and HomePod comes to mind. But I get your point and think that having a bridge device rather than two different devices might be a good fit for some. For me I’m always going to stick with a separate tablet and laptop since I prefer a device that is great at doing one vs the other.

 

[cics]

I get the feeling this hybrid device would mostly appeal to those whose primary device is a Mac laptop. Instead I’d like to see Apple just fix certain pain points with iPad that might satisfy them enough. Like allow podcasting support on iPad Pro. Or if you hook up an external keyboard have better cursor and shortcuts support. I think there are small things they can do that wouldn’t over complicate the iPad for the majority of people who use it. And also wouldn’t introduce another piece of hardware that Apple has to maintain/support/update. And a piece of hardware that would complicate product lines and confuse most users.

In fact I think iPad Pro will be this hybrid device... not really hybrid in the sense of os... will be iOS only... but adding support to other inputs methods for example would make it perfect. We will see.

 

[sracer]

OK but how does one get done right? I love my iPad Pro and use it all the time. But to make it equivalent to the laptop I use for work would degrade what I like most about it (ease of use, weight, portability). I don’t think this mythical perfect device exists or ever will. And that’s OK. In my kitchen I have a stove, microwave and toaster oven. They all serve their purpose. What’s wrong with having a tool for productivity and one for consumption (that could replace the productivity tool for many people)?

There's nothing wrong with that. You seem to imply that it must be all or nothing... either separate tools or all-in-ones. It's not an exclusive-or situation. Offer both!

Well, "done right" is in the eye of the beholder.

Here is what I would consider "done right" for such a device. Apple is SO close with the iPad Pro. For the sake of simplicity...

Take the current iPad Pro and add...

1. Support for a mouse/trackpad. Make it optional as it is with Android. They've implemented it perfectly.
2. Support for a file system that is universal to iOS. The current implementation of the Files.app is a band-aid on top of the current limitations within iOS.
3. Support interaction with industry standards and not limited to Apple's ecosystem. Although macOS devices are Apple products that work well within the Apple family of products and services, they can also utilize industry standards such as USB, external displays, etc. in an open way. Android, Windows, ChromeOS, macOS, and Linux all can utilize peripherals without the need for proprietary connectors and protocols. iOS needs to do so as well.

None of these would compromise the simplicity and easy of use of iPads in their current mode of use, but would allow for the OPTION to use those things as the user sees fit. Want to keep using the iPad Pro as it is today? No problem, rock on. (these additions won't interfere with that)

It isn't necessary to take all of iOS and merge it with all of macOS to get a proper converged device. That is the conventional thought on that, and it's the easy way, but not what I'm advocating.

 

[DNichter]

If they won’t merge IOS with Mac they won’t make a hybrid device, they have already confirmed this many times in the past.

I think it depends. When I think of this device, I envision more of thin clam shell iPad with a touchscreen keyboard that adapts to the app you are using (like the touch bar). I think the hope on Apple's end is that as developers port their iOS apps to Mac, the same will flow from some more full features macOS apps back to iOS and the iPad. At least that's my hope, personally.

 

[cics]

There's nothing wrong with that. You seem to imply that it must be all or nothing... either separate tools or all-in-ones. It's not an exclusive-or situation. Offer both!

Well, "done right" is in the eye of the beholder.

Here is what I would consider "done right" for such a device. Apple is SO close with the iPad Pro. For the sake of simplicity...

Take the current iPad Pro and add...

1. Support for a mouse/trackpad. Make it optional as it is with Android. They've implemented it perfectly.
2. Support for a file system that is universal to iOS. The current implementation of the Files.app is a band-aid on top of the current limitations within iOS.
3. Support interaction with industry standards and not limited to Apple's ecosystem. Although macOS devices are Apple products that work well within the Apple family of products and services, they can also utilize industry standards such as USB, external displays, etc. in an open way. Android, Windows, ChromeOS, macOS, and Linux all can utilize peripherals without the need for proprietary connectors and protocols. iOS needs to do so as well.

None of these would compromise the simplicity and easy of use of iPads in their current mode of use, but would allow for the OPTION to use those things as the user sees fit. Want to keep using the iPad Pro as it is today? No problem, rock on. (these additions won't interfere with that)

It isn't necessary to take all of iOS and merge it with all of macOS to get a proper converged device. That is the conventional thought on that, and it's the easy way, but not what I'm advocating.

I agree. iPad Pro is on track to become the hybrid device a lot of customers want, while iOS apps on macOS are a nice add to make the experience more consistent across platforms.

 

[Rogifan]

There's nothing wrong with that. You seem to imply that it must be all or nothing... either separate tools or all-in-ones. It's not an exclusive-or situation. Offer both!

Well, "done right" is in the eye of the beholder.

Here is what I would consider "done right" for such a device. Apple is SO close with the iPad Pro. For the sake of simplicity...

Take the current iPad Pro and add...

1. Support for a mouse/trackpad. Make it optional as it is with Android. They've implemented it perfectly.
2. Support for a file system that is universal to iOS. The current implementation of the Files.app is a band-aid on top of the current limitations within iOS.
3. Support interaction with industry standards and not limited to Apple's ecosystem. Although macOS devices are Apple products that work well within the Apple family of products and services, they can also utilize industry standards such as USB, external displays, etc. in an open way. Android, Windows, ChromeOS, macOS, and Linux all can utilize peripherals without the need for proprietary connectors and protocols. iOS needs to do so as well.

None of these would compromise the simplicity and easy of use of iPads in their current mode of use, but would allow for the OPTION to use those things as the user sees fit. Want to keep using the iPad Pro as it is today? No problem, rock on. (these additions won't interfere with that)

It isn't necessary to take all of iOS and merge it with all of macOS to get a proper converged device. That is the conventional thought on that, and it's the easy way, but not what I'm advocating.

I dunno seems like over complicating iPad for a small number of users that want some mythical converged device. Also I think having features specific just to iPad Pro would make the iPad line confusing.

 

[sparksd]

I dunno seems like over complicating iPad for a small number of users that want some mythical converged device. Also I think having features specific just to iPad Pro would make the iPad line confusing.

Number of users who want this is an unknown and Apple's own market research will end up being the real decision driver. You can't extrapolate from posters on a site like this to the general marketplace.

 

[Mainsail]

I am still unclear about what a hybrid device does for me. I can buy a new MBA on sale for $700-800 and a new iPad for $300. So, for about $1,000, I have the best of both worlds. The 12in rMB cost about $1,300, so a hybrid would probably be even more expensive. What does this hypothetical device give me that I don’t already have now?

I like the flexibility of using the best device for the task. There are times when I just don’t want to drag a larger more expensive device around with me and the iPad is the perfect portable solution. There are other times when I need to do some focused work and a laptop with keyboard and trackpad is the perfect solution. With cloud storage, I always have my documents and notes with me regardless of the device used.

Recently, I was on a long flight and started talking to a guy with a touch screen folding laptop. I asked him how he liked it. He said it was fine, but he basically never uses the device in tablet or touch mode. He said that it was an ok laptop, but a terrible tablet.....too heavy to hold, keyboard gets in the way, OS not optimized for touch, limited touch based App Store, ........etc. Basically, there were just too many compromises.

 

[TheralSadurns]

I posted this in the "Waiting for the 2018 MBP" thread in Dec. 2017... let me quote myself here:

"Now... how does Microsoft try to solve it? Surface Book and Pro. And honstly... I think they are GREAT machines. Until you really use them that is. You'd think you get the best of both worlds... but in reality the Surface Pro is an okayish tablet... and an okayish notebook. The Surface Book fares not much better... it just is a better notebook. As a tablet? Not so much.

So what should Apple do? I honestly don't know. It seems like it's true what they said... that you cannot really merge these two categories too well. The result just doesn't work on a high enough level. Keeping them separate forever though... is also not desirable. More SKUs. More dev costs on both hardware and software. Paired with people that want to DECLUTTER... and NOT carry 3-5 devices... but rather only 1 or 2.


My idea is (and I am pretty sure that it is not a good one or even feasible) to have something similar to the Surface Book. Where the top part (aka the notebook display) is actually an iPad Pro with iOS, an A-class APU, and SHARED STORAGE !!!
The bottom part (with keyboard and trackpad etc.) runs macOS, has an x86 CPU/APU, main RAM, all the ports, a big battery, etc.. It does not have storage of it's own... but rather uses the storage in the iPad part.

If the iPad is docked... it acts as a normal MBP (running macOS). If you take it out it acts as a normal iPad (running iOS). The interesting part is the shared memory... so you only have ONE real file system... and preferably also only one Applications folder with both versions of an app (if there are versions for both, like now with an App for say... iPhone, iPad, and Apple TV). If the apps are still separate... they should be hidden/invisible when using the 'other' mode/OS.

I know... this sounds (from a technical perspective) pretty complicated... and I bet it is. But if there is one company that can figure this out... it is Apple. I still strongly believe this.

Because what are the other options?

a) Keep iOS and macOS completely separate on OS and Hardware level
b) keep either iOS or macOS and throw away the other... while either making iOS MORE powerful (I'm afraid Apple is considering this long term), or by making macOS touch friendly (which I am not sure is such a good idea either... but at least it's a USABLE OS)
c) Hybrid Device as outlined above..."

 

[UltimateSyn]

I don't want them to merge iOS and macOS, but I would absolutely love:
-iOS getting trackpad support
-iPad Pros that can be docked into an aluminum keyboard dock that has a trackpad and can support the screen at any angle. The Smart Keyboard is great but there's only one keyboard angle and it doesn't hold steadily on a lap. I'm envisioning something very similar to the Surface Book.

Also love the idea of the dock running macOS and it converting once plugged in. That's awesome and, once macOS supports iOS apps, you could still run your iPad's applications while it's running macOS!

 

[Atomic1977]

Here is an idea. Make a iPad that can run Windows 10 as well as iOS. Now that would be something to see.

 

[TheralSadurns]

Here is an idea. Make a iPad that can run Windows 10 as well as iOS. Now that would be something to see.

Hahahahahaha no. Why on EARTH would it run a sub-par OS such as Windows 10? I can point out sooo sooo many things wrong with Windows 10... that hamper any powe user's productivity. Yes. Windows 10 is the BEST Windows, yet. But honestly? That is really no big feat.

 

[goobot]

If they won’t merge IOS with Mac they won’t make a hybrid device, they have already confirmed this many times in the past.

I dont see how the 2 are related. If they were to make a hybrid, having two different OS that look similar and sync across perfect would be the way to go no? iOS when in touch mode and macOS when not.

 

[subjonas]

The way I see it, a Mac keyboard base for an iPad doesn’t really solve much but does create other problems. If we compare the Mac base iPad to having an iPad and a retina MacBook...

Gain:
- carrying the iPad and Mac keyboard base instead of carrying an iPad and a retina MacBook, you save yourself the weight of the MacBook’s display—which, being incredibly thin and light, is not very significant.
- the iPad and Mac keyboard base MAY be cheaper than an iPad and a MacBook, but with the added hybrid tech, and knowing Apple, that’s not certain. If it is, it almost certainly won’t be much cheaper.

Same:
- with the Mac base you’re still carrying a second device, which still has to be charged, etc.
- with current sync and Continuity features between devices, a single shared storage isn’t really advantageous.

Loss:
- the Mac base is useless without the iPad attached; unlike a MacBook which is fully functional whether the iPad is present or not, and which makes it possible for both devices to be used simultaneously if so desired.
- if you need Mac but not iOS in a certain situation, with a full MacBook you have the option to leave the iPad at home; and a lone MacBook is significantly lighter weight than an iPad + Mac keyboard base would be.
- an iPad display attached to a Mac keyboard base is going to be a more top heavy and inelegant device than a MacBook.

I just don’t see it being worth it.

(Note- some of this might depend on what size iPad we’re talking about)
(Also note- the Mac keyboard base would only be for people who want to have the same size Mac and iPad display)

 

[kasakka]

There's nothing wrong with that. You seem to imply that it must be all or nothing... either separate tools or all-in-ones. It's not an exclusive-or situation. Offer both!

Well, "done right" is in the eye of the beholder.

Here is what I would consider "done right" for such a device. Apple is SO close with the iPad Pro. For the sake of simplicity...

Take the current iPad Pro and add...

1. Support for a mouse/trackpad. Make it optional as it is with Android. They've implemented it perfectly.
2. Support for a file system that is universal to iOS. The current implementation of the Files.app is a band-aid on top of the current limitations within iOS.
3. Support interaction with industry standards and not limited to Apple's ecosystem. Although macOS devices are Apple products that work well within the Apple family of products and services, they can also utilize industry standards such as USB, external displays, etc. in an open way. Android, Windows, ChromeOS, macOS, and Linux all can utilize peripherals without the need for proprietary connectors and protocols. iOS needs to do so as well.

None of these would compromise the simplicity and easy of use of iPads in their current mode of use, but would allow for the OPTION to use those things as the user sees fit. Want to keep using the iPad Pro as it is today? No problem, rock on. (these additions won't interfere with that)

It isn't necessary to take all of iOS and merge it with all of macOS to get a proper converged device. That is the conventional thought on that, and it's the easy way, but not what I'm advocating.

I would love to see this because at the moment I am carrying a 2016 MBP and a mechanical keyboard for work because the one on the MBP is so horrible. In short there is no benefit for the MBP to be an actual laptop. I would love a Surface Pro type device from Apple. I don't need it to run OSX, iOS is fine if it had the improvements outlined above. Let me hook up a few devices including an external screen to it via a dongle and run NodeJS and I would be a happy camper.

As it is though I probably need to go with Win10 and Surface Pro for my next machine unless Apple manages to fix the issues in their current design in the next redesign.

 

[StellarVixen]

No merging in foreseeable future. Even iOS apps they are bringing on Mac are optimized for Mac, Mac isn't changing to accommodate those apps. Instead of Mac changing it's UI for use of touch based apps, iOS apps will have to play by Mac's old rules.

I think it's better that way.

(Edited so many times, I totally cannot type in the morning before coffee).

 

[pika2000]

My Twitter feed is full of techies at WWDC convinced that Apple doesn’t really mean what it says when it says Mac and iOS aren’t merging. I think this is wishful thinking on the part of those who want such a device. But if they’re right wouldn’t this essentially be creating another inbetween device - something inbetween an iPad and a Mac. Seems to me that would be incredibly confusing. If this is compelling and worth doing then just turn the iPad Pro into this device. Don’t create another product category that would just confuse people and make Apple’s product lines even more cluttered. Thoughts?

The techies on twitter said that because that's the narrative they've been making up and they have to have consistent narrative for their blogs/podcasts.

Heck, Apple is only building the APIs and libraries so devs can port their apps to macOS, but there are already tech blogs claiming you can run iOS apps on macOS, which is totally misleading.

It's the nature of today's fake news done by fake journalism.

 

[Dave245]

I dont see how the 2 are related. If they were to make a hybrid, having two different OS that look similar and sync across perfect would be the way to go no? iOS when in touch mode and macOS when not.

Because they don't want to do it, they have said IOS is better on iPhone and iPad is optimised for touch where MacOS is best on the Mac with a point and click, it's clear that Apple are against hybrid devices. Whether you agree or not is a different matter.

Personally i'm conflicted, i did use to be completely against the idea but the Surface (for example) seems to have some merit as a portable device on the go, especially if it can play FULL PC games. On the other hand i do agree with what Apple says in that such devices are compramised using the Surface again as an example, the tablet mode is no where near as good as the iPad from what reviews and comments i've seen (i don't own one so i can't say from first hand experience) and thew Windows store is also said to be no where near as good as Apple's IOS or MacOS store.

 

[HowardEv]

The mythical device we need is a new Mac Mini with a battery, running MacOS with tons of ports and storage, that we can control remotely from an iPad (or connect to a keyboard and screen). So it can run ProTools and FinalCut with all the processing power of fastest desktop but be controlled from iOS devices.