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Thunderbolt 4 & NVMe M.2 External Storage: Read/Write Speeds?
- Thread starter F-Train
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Not him but I use TG Pro. There is a toggle inside preferences that let you enable external SMART monitoring.
Can someone please help me, I'm going nuts trying to work something out... I want to get an ASM2464 nvme enclosure such as the Jeyi or Maiwo. I've read pretty much all that's out there but everyone is testing with more modern M-chip Macs. If I connect these to a MacBook Pro 2019 16" that has TB3 ports, will I still get a 40gbps connection similar to the Acasis TBU401 which I already have?
People who have the Jeyi or Maiwo enclosures will have to reply to your Q.
But Intel Macs are not TB4/USB4 compliant...
Here's a link from the Mac Accessories forum about an interesting new ASM2464 enclosure from OWC.
OWC is a reputable manufacturer who gets their Thunderbolt enclosures certified by Intel. This, according to its specs tab is USB: ASM2464PD, but they are still concerned about meeting Intel's requirements.
This is their list of connection speeds from their web page. Its not good news - 10Gpbs for Intel TB3 ports:
But Intel Macs are not TB4/USB4 compliant...
Here's a link from the Mac Accessories forum about an interesting new ASM2464 enclosure from OWC.
OWC is a reputable manufacturer who gets their Thunderbolt enclosures certified by Intel. This, according to its specs tab is USB: ASM2464PD, but they are still concerned about meeting Intel's requirements.
This is their list of connection speeds from their web page. Its not good news - 10Gpbs for Intel TB3 ports:
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Thanks. Yes I saw that OWC one, but it says that on Intel TB3 hosts the max connection speed is 10gbps. Whereas for example the Acasis TB3 enclosures on Intel TB3 hosts connect at 40gbps. So it would be a poor choice for Intel Macs.
I realise my MacBook isn't USB4/TB4, but I thought TB4 downgrades to TB3 with a TB3 host, but can still be 40gbps. What I'm unclear on is whether these particular enclosures with ASM2464 chipsets that are USB4 would connect with the Macbook using TB3 connection. Also I want it to be TB to pass the SMART data.
Does that make any sense?
God I hate USB/TB naming.... 🤦♂️
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What OWC are saying is that their USB4 ASM2464PD enclosure would work at TB3 speeds, but in doing so it will exceed the Intel TB3 port power abilities, so will revert to USB 3.2 Gen2 10Gbps.
We know that that the power overload downspeed happens in practice with Apple Silicon, so it will most likely happen with Intel Macs, which have Intel-controlled TB ports.
But someone with a Jeyi or Maiwo enclosure will need to report how they perform in practice with Intel Macs.
They get very hot in use which probably means high power requirements
A proper Intel-chipped JHL7440 TB3 enclosure (like your Acasis) will be fine.
We know that that the power overload downspeed happens in practice with Apple Silicon, so it will most likely happen with Intel Macs, which have Intel-controlled TB ports.
But someone with a Jeyi or Maiwo enclosure will need to report how they perform in practice with Intel Macs.
They get very hot in use which probably means high power requirements
A proper Intel-chipped JHL7440 TB3 enclosure (like your Acasis) will be fine.
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Oh, I didn't realise about the port power requirements. So you're saying that for the OWC device it's not actually an issue with the possible connection speed per se, it's that the enclosure draws more power than TB3 specifications, and so to stay compliant it downgrades to a USB 10gbps connection?
So do you think it's possible that a device (eg with ASM2464) that wasn't trying to comply with TB specs could work at 40gbps on TB3 host? Or it's the Intel host that is doing the downgrading?
So do you think there's no point me looking at ASM2464 devices for use on TB3 port and I should just get another Acasis? I'm not expecting higher-than-Acasis speeds, but I have to buy a new enclosure of some type anyway and figured I'd try to future-proof for my next Macbook.
Appreciate your help.
It appears from the Mac Studio thread that if the port doesn't supply enough power, the drive responds by reverting to USB 10Gbps speeds.
Get a JHL 7440 chipped enclosure if you only have TB3.
Only USB4 ports can seemingly work at full ~40Gbps speeds - actually more like 32 Gbps in practice for data if you read the TB4/USB4 specs....
Get a JHL 7440 chipped enclosure if you only have TB3.
Only USB4 ports can seemingly work at full ~40Gbps speeds - actually more like 32 Gbps in practice for data if you read the TB4/USB4 specs....
Thank you, this is very helpful indeed. You seem well-knowledgeable about these things... can I ask another question?
My current Acasis has a Fanxiang s500 2TB in it. I'm looking to get another 2TB and on Amazon there's Lexar NM790, Lexar NM800 Pro, and Samsung 980 Pro, WD SN850X, all around same price $130-140. Any thoughts on which of these would be best? Or something better for same price? I'd read about issues with 980 Pro and Macs but maybe am wrong. Otherwise I could just get another Fanxiang for $80.
My current Acasis has a Fanxiang s500 2TB in it. I'm looking to get another 2TB and on Amazon there's Lexar NM790, Lexar NM800 Pro, and Samsung 980 Pro, WD SN850X, all around same price $130-140. Any thoughts on which of these would be best? Or something better for same price? I'd read about issues with 980 Pro and Macs but maybe am wrong. Otherwise I could just get another Fanxiang for $80.
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I prefer WD SSDs as they probably have Apple’s phone number to sort out any incompatibilities before they put them on sale haha.
The Hackintosh community always recommend WD, and they are the ones who know about problems…
The Hackintosh community always recommend WD, and they are the ones who know about problems…
Purchased two 2TB SkHynix P31's (placed in their respective Acasis TBU405's) for my (then) impending M2 Mac Studio arrival; I can explicitly report that when both are attached, only one is populated on the TB bus... the other connects @ USB3.2 10Gbps/s (no matter which attachment to any of the remaining three, available TB ports).
Have an OWC TB->2xDP adapter connected to (and successfully working on) one of the four TB ports.
When one P31/TBU405 is connected, I get excellent results:
I am awaiting the arrival of a Maiwo USB4 enclosure to test, further.
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The OWC table claiming only 10Gbps on Intel TB3 Macs does not need speculation / explanation. It is simply the case of Macs with only TB3 (thus only USB3.1) no USB4, when plugged in the ASM USB4 chip, has to fall back to USB3.1 thus caps at 10Gbps.
The supplied power has nothing to do with it. You just need a USB4 capable computer to go 40Gbps on a, well, USB4 chip enclosure.
(though the above noting dual chip enclosures falling back to USB4 while not having enough power for pushing TB4 scenario is true).
The supplied power has nothing to do with it. You just need a USB4 capable computer to go 40Gbps on a, well, USB4 chip enclosure.
(though the above noting dual chip enclosures falling back to USB4 while not having enough power for pushing TB4 scenario is true).
Your assertion is incorrect and you’re misinformed.
Intel Macs with only TB3 are fully compatible with the ASM2464 USB4 chip. That is to say, they don’t fall back to USB 3.1 as TB3 40Gbps mode is fully supported by the ASMedia chip.
Here’s my 2020 Intel iMac with TB3 connected to an ASM2464 enclosure:
Why OWC’s USB4 enclosure doesn’t fully support TB3 only Macs at 40GBps isn’t quite clear. Their marketing page for US4EXP1M2 talks about “Intel power certifications” for bus powered enclosures, but this enclosure uses an ASMedia chip and as such has nothing to do with Intel’s thunderbolt certifications.
My guess is they simply don't want to cannibalize the sales of their Intel based TB3 solutions that work at full 40GBps.
Also, there’s no such thing as dual chip USB4 enclosure or a TB4 enclosure for that matter. What brands like Acasis are selling is a jerry-rigged TB3 JHL7440 chip + RTL9210 enclosure to claim wider compatibility. This is neither a true USB4 enclosure, nor a TB4 enclosure as it still uses a TB3 controller from 2018.
I am willing to learn more and I am likely to be wrong so bear with me;
(but I must say I am speaking from experience, as I have many Intel Macs here in our studio just none is as new as an iMac 2020)
Something doesn't add up with your iMac's System Profiler. We know for the fact that no Intel Macs is supposed to support USB4 (I hope I am not remembering this wrong). If so why does it says "Thunderbolt/USB4 Device Tree" on top?
(EDIT: I just checked a MBP2019 16" and then a MBP2015 15" here, they both say "Thunderbolt/USB4 Device Tree" so it seems to be the norm, like an umbrella term)
Further, the ASM2464 chip is running in "Mode: Thunderbolt 3"? With a negotiated links of 2 at 40 Gbps no less.
And then you got the speed test to prove it. So it is not just a report, the SSD does run at "full" speed.
These just go against what has been known and tested on older Thunderbolt and USB4 devices out there so far. It looks like this ASM2464 chip is bringing some new capability, or maybe it unlocks some backward compatibility that was previously not possible?
EDIT2:
After some goolging I came upon this thread over there discussing eGPU, as these guys are much more concerned about getting as much bandwidth as possible from external devices.
Page 8 | [2023 ASMedia ASM2464PD USB4v1 encoder - 64Gbps PCI...
Page 8 | nando4 Oct-2-2024 FAQ & topic summary notes >> Features and builds related 1. [ here ] are builds using a [ASM2464PD PCI...
I wonder if this explains its ability to be compatible with TB3 host, judging by your speed test on iMac 2020, it is running at 22Gbps cap, the previous gen TB3 JHL controller cap.
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1. Any Intel Mac that has a thunderbolt 3 port running Ventura or later is fully capable of connecting to a USB4 ASM2464 based enclosure at 40GBps.
2. The "thunderbolt/USB4" is just how Apple likes to name it in their latest OS.
3. The ASM2464 USB4 chip is backward compatible with thunderbolt 3 so that's why it's running in thunderbolt 3 mode on my Intel iMac.
4. Think of USB4 more as a spec. USB4 is actually built upon thunderbolt 3 tech that Intel made royalty free a while back. Here's an ArsTechnica article about it:
Breaking down how USB4 goes where no USB standard has gone before
USB4 vs. Thunderbolt 4—and everything else to know about the newest USB standard.
arstechnica.com
Thanks, I edited my post above a bit but you replied already. The mysterious sauce seems to be the "PCIe tunnel mode" that was previously untapped by any enclosure hardware before.1. Any Intel Mac that has a thunderbolt 3 port running Ventura or later is fully capable of connecting to a USB4 ASM2464 based enclosure at 40GBps.
2. The "thunderbolt/USB4" is just how Apple likes to name it in their latest OS.
3. The ASM2464 USB4 chip is backward compatible with thunderbolt 3 so that's why it's running in thunderbolt 3 mode on my Intel iMac.
4. Think of USB4 more as a spec. USB4 is actually built upon thunderbolt 3 tech that Intel made royalty free a while back. Here's an ArsTechnica article about it:
Breaking down how USB4 goes where no USB standard has gone before
USB4 vs. Thunderbolt 4—and everything else to know about the newest USB standard.
I got an Acasis TBU405ProM1 and a WD SN850X 4TB but the SN850X wouldn't format. It said a writable disk is required. I sent the SN850X back and will most likely order another one. I'm not sure if I should get another brand of SSD.
Oh dear, I just ordered a 2TB SN850X last night.... hope it is not an issue with the model, though have seen many other users using it.
I think it was just a fluke. Hopefully the new one I order will be OK. It seems many are using it with success.
What enclosure did you get?
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Well they do list this clearly in their own Chinese marketing / website, but if this is lost in translation on oversea sellers then…*sigh*
Luckily, it only took me USD140 to find this fact to be true
And at that point in time when this enclosure was new, this solution was brilliant, and in fact is itself a feature; for instance in terms of Mac compatibility, this kind of config means you can plug it all the way back to USB2 Macs like unibody MacBook and still can get 480mbps and the volume can mount, while plugging to a TB3 / TB4 modern Mac you get “full” speed.
Aye; the details were not lost on me (after considerable research).
That I now have these devices on my desk is where science feeds wisdom.
Where the tyre meets the tarmac is the inability of multiple "TB4" devices to both populate as such on my M2, and I'm currently leaning to laying that at the feet of AAPL 🤷♂️
When I receive my Maiwo this week, I'll have a better idea about what's-what, and where to go from there...
"Before I was wise;
Afterwards I was wise;
In between, I was otherwise."
--Osho the Fool (David Zindell)
You mean the Macs' inability to mount more than 2 high bus-power asking devices? Yes we need more field tests, it is not yet well known how much power these USB4 chips draw vs the JHL chips, in practical use. If they end up breaking that limitation while sustaining same / better speed than the JHL enclosures then it will be a clear choice for multiple-enclosure users.