Tim Cook discussion thread [merged]

[ThunderSkunk]

Smartphones in general are a mature product category with less room for improvement...

Only if you're comapring smartphones of today versus smartphones of next year and 10 years ago when they were brand new. There will be a year 3020, just as sure as there will be a year 2020. Consider how unlikely it is that 1000 years from now there will still be humans. ...I mean, that there will still be humans holding little rectangular displays punching tiny icons on screen to try to make unaware software do some rudimentary tasks. Personal computers are less than half a century old. Practically all the innovation of mobile computing and computing in general lay ahead of it. This ability in the market to keep making essentially the same device over and over every year is a temporary luxury.

 

[AZhappyjack]

5g and usb-c are meaningless to me and won’t affect a phone purchase. 3 years down the road sure, maybe a deciding factor.

As far as the competition, meh.

Agreed. And frankly, for me at least, there is no competition. That is not to say that Apple is the be-all-end-all... but I have too much invested in the ecosystem (myself and my family) to jump ship... not remotely interested in any of this year's offerings (phone/tablet/watch), but also am not going anywhere. My Xs Max will do well for another year or two (at least).
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And yet, strangely, the phones are still somehow amazing.

Meh. I dusted off an old iPhone 4 today for a little project that I am working on... and, apart from the tiny screen, it was (and still is) one of my favorite devices from Apple. The new phones? I could take them or leave them... certainly nothing to get me all fired up about.

 

[Jimmy James]

Meh. I dusted off an old iPhone 4 today for a little project that I am working on... and, apart from the tiny screen, it was (and still is) one of my favorite devices from Apple. The new phones? I could take them or leave them... certainly nothing to get me all fired up about.

You’re looking at it from the perspective of comparing phones. What one can do with the 4 is remarkable compared to what was easily possibly not long before.

Get rid of your smartphone phone. Entirely. For a year. You would probably sacrifice a lot to get one back. Any smartphone.

 

[AZhappyjack]

You’re looking at it from the perspective of comparing phones. What one can do with the 4 is remarkable compared to what was easily possibly not long before.

Get rid of your smartphone phone. Entirely. For a year. You would probably sacrifice a lot to get one back. Any smartphone.

First of all, the iPhone 4 was a great phone... and in may ways, it still stands up to the current crop. Sure there are updates and new features, but the iPhone 4 is STILL a capable device that offers great utility.

I don't need to get rid of anything. I understand the value of my iPhone in my life... and I leave room for living life, too.

I have a "good enough" camera in my Xs Max (yeah, it's a pretty good camera system, but it's good enough that I don't need to spend another $1K to get the latest). All I am saying is that FOR ME, there is nothing compelling about the iPhone 11. I am happy to stand pat, and keep the money in my account.

I get that Tim Cook is a snake oil salesman that has to hawk the latest and greatest... but how can he or Phil Schiller (who is a horrible presenter, BTW) stand up there straight-faced pushing this "amazing" and "incredible" device, that is, at best, an incremental update.

 

[Jimmy James]

Incremental, yes. Which drives the point. If a 9 year old phone is great then what’s left? Building on excellence. Which is really an incremental process. The updates may not be revolutionary. But the new phones are not “meh”.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Incremental, yes. Which drives the point. If a 9 year old phone is great then what’s left? Building on excellence. Which is really an incremental process. The updates may not be revolutionary. But the new phones are not “meh”.

Again, for me they are totally "meh". I did not claim to speak for everyone (or anyone other than myself).

As far as “incremental” goes, it’s like jumping half-way to a wall. You actually never get to the wall, and at some point, the effort is just not worth the reward. That’s where I currently am on the new phones. As with anything else, YMMV.

 

[olduser007]

After Steve Jobs died we had hardly any new products.
The designs have been the same for years.
Prices have tripled.
We get less and less options.
Everything is designed to not be repaired.
Every IOS and MacOS is getting worse with bugs.

And most of all Apple has lost all credibility when it comes to privacy.
All the human rights talk from Apple is just pure marketing as we've seen the last few years!

Tim Cook isn't about great products, Tim Cook is all about great profits.
Tim Cook needs to go period!

 

[olindacat]

Recall that Apple is a corporation with stockholders who care about profits. Tim is trying to satisfy this primary requirement, and keep us happy too. Creation of innovative products is like art. Requires a different skillset. I'm as frustrated as anybody. I think Tim would jump at the chance to innovate, if he saw that potential inside the company, and may.....

 

[Ma2k5]

After Steve Jobs died we had hardly any new products.
The designs have been the same for years.
Prices have tripled.
We get less and less options.
Everything is designed to not be repaired.
Every IOS and MacOS is getting worse with bugs.

And most of all Apple has lost all credibility when it comes to privacy.
All the human rights talk from Apple is just pure marketing as we've seen the last few years!

Tim Cook isn't about great products, Tim Cook is all about great profits.
Tim Cook needs to go period!

How does one manage great profits without great products? Asking for a friend .

 

[olduser007]

How does one manage great profits without great products? Asking for a friend .

Are they great products though?

Sure the new iPhones have a better camera. Would be weird having the new thing having lesser specs like that. They still miss many features that have been coming out on other phones.

Look at the iPhone designs.. they break easily because of the whole design. Glass breaks period.
A brilliant idea when you know people are gonna break it at some point, and at the same time making it impossible to repair. But not costumer friendly at all, let alone good for the environment.
These phones don't have to be this expensive, they only are this expensive because people are hooked into the Apple ecosystem and don't want to be on Android where things are even worse.

I have the iPhone XR and it's the first iPhone I feel bad about buying. The screen scratches like crazy, face ID doesn't work a lot of times, the off/on switch on the side drives me crazy. Put it back on the top!, people do not hear me clearly a lot of times and more issues have been rising. Such a disappointment for a phone I spent 700 euros on.

Look at the Macbooks, for years we've had recalls because of bad keyboard designs, terrible soldering etc. Then we had the prices going sky rocket through the roof and stripped of being able to easily repair or upgrade the storage and RAM. We did get the tiny touchscreen replacing a lot of keys we loved using and a giant trackpad as if anyone was complaining about the previous size.

Again of course the specs go up every year but that's not a real accomplishment by Apple, that's just how tech evolves.

My 17" from early 2011 was 2500 Euro. (3000 with upgrade in RAM and SSD upgrade that I bought separably a few years later) There're no 17" Macbooks anymore and a 15" will cost me 5000 Euro. I don't even wan't to know what the new 16" will cost anymore as I know it would be insane.

 

[Ma2k5]

Are they great products though?

Sure the new iPhones have a better camera. Would be weird having the new thing having lesser specs like that. They still miss many features that have been coming out on other phones.

Look at the iPhone designs.. they break easily because of the whole design. Glass breaks period.
A brilliant idea when you know people are gonna break it at some point, and at the same time making it impossible to repair. But not costumer friendly at all, let alone good for the environment.
These phones don't have to be this expensive, they only are this expensive because people are hooked into the Apple ecosystem and don't want to be on Android where things are even worse.

I have the iPhone XR and it's the first iPhone I feel bad about buying. The screen scratches like crazy, face ID doesn't work a lot of times, the off/on switch on the side drives me crazy. Put it back on the top!, people do not hear me clearly a lot of times and more issues have been rising. Such a disappointment for a phone I spent 700 euros on.

Look at the Macbooks, for years we've had recalls because of bad keyboard designs, terrible soldering etc. Then we had the prices going sky rocket through the roof and stripped of being able to easily repair or upgrade the storage and RAM. We did get the tiny touchscreen replacing a lot of keys we loved using and a giant trackpad as if anyone was complaining about the previous size.

Again of course the specs go up every year but that's not a real accomplishment by Apple, that's just how tech evolves.

My 17" from early 2011 was 2500 Euro. (3000 with upgrade in RAM and SSD upgrade that I bought separably a few years later) There're no 17" Macbooks anymore and a 15" will cost me 5000 Euro. I don't even wan't to know what the new 16" will cost anymore as I know it would be insane.

You are preaching to the choir (just check my post history), but my point was, although I have many complaints about the lack of innovation and issues on many of their products, there products still sell, so we can't say Tim Cook is doing a bad job because you or I don't like the products. Also it is almost an oxymoron to suggest products which sell so well are not great products. Hope that clarifies my position.

 

[AustinIllini]

Are they great products though?

Sure the new iPhones have a better camera. Would be weird having the new thing having lesser specs like that. They still miss many features that have been coming out on other phones.

Look at the iPhone designs.. they break easily because of the whole design. Glass breaks period.
A brilliant idea when you know people are gonna break it at some point, and at the same time making it impossible to repair. But not costumer friendly at all, let alone good for the environment.
These phones don't have to be this expensive, they only are this expensive because people are hooked into the Apple ecosystem and don't want to be on Android where things are even worse.

I have the iPhone XR and it's the first iPhone I feel bad about buying. The screen scratches like crazy, face ID doesn't work a lot of times, the off/on switch on the side drives me crazy. Put it back on the top!, people do not hear me clearly a lot of times and more issues have been rising. Such a disappointment for a phone I spent 700 euros on.

Look at the Macbooks, for years we've had recalls because of bad keyboard designs, terrible soldering etc. Then we had the prices going sky rocket through the roof and stripped of being able to easily repair or upgrade the storage and RAM. We did get the tiny touchscreen replacing a lot of keys we loved using and a giant trackpad as if anyone was complaining about the previous size.

Again of course the specs go up every year but that's not a real accomplishment by Apple, that's just how tech evolves.

My 17" from early 2011 was 2500 Euro. (3000 with upgrade in RAM and SSD upgrade that I bought separably a few years later) There're no 17" Macbooks anymore and a 15" will cost me 5000 Euro. I don't even wan't to know what the new 16" will cost anymore as I know it would be insane.

My Apple experience continues to get better and better. For those of us who

• Take care of our phones
• Use a screen protector
• Keep computers a long time
• Aren't bothered by improvements like a bigger trackpad and faceID, which I contend is far better than TouchID.

Apple is a great solution. Really, with all the bumps in the road the last few years, there really still isn't anyone doing it altogether better than Apple. Their ecosystem is essentially unmatched in its ability to work with itself. They have a viable tablet and watch that none of their competitors can get right. They have local stores so you can go and talk to a human being about your product.

If Apple isn't for you, it's not for you. Go find what it, but you will not find a better hardware/software/ecosystem integration than what Apple has right now.
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You are preaching to the choir (just check my post history), but my point was, although I have many complaints about the lack of innovation and issues on many of their products, there products still sell, so we can't say Tim Cook is doing a bad job because you or I don't like the products. Also it is almost an oxymoron to suggest products which sell so well are not great products. Hope that clarifies my position.

By any metric, Tim Cook has been wildly successful as the CEO of Apple. It's clear he was the right pick for Steve's replacement.

 

[olduser007]

My Apple experience continues to get better and better. For those of us who

• Take care of our phones
• Use a screen protector
• Keep computers a long time
• Aren't bothered by improvements like a bigger trackpad and faceID, which I contend is far better than TouchID.

Apple is a great solution. Really, with all the bumps in the road the last few years, there really still isn't anyone doing it altogether better than Apple. Their ecosystem is essentially unmatched in its ability to work with itself. They have a viable tablet and watch that none of their competitors can get right. They have local stores so you can go and talk to a human being about your product.

If Apple isn't for you, it's not for you. Go find what it, but you will not find a better hardware/software/ecosystem integration than what Apple has right now.
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By any metric, Tim Cook has been wildly successful as the CEO of Apple. It's clear he was the right pick for Steve's replacement.

- Take care of our phones? I haven't met anyone that hasn't dropped their phone at some point. Please do tell how you're one in million that never did.

- If we need to use screen protectors than it's obvious a design flaw. Also my previous iPhones didn't had this problem.

- My 17" is more than 8 years old. If I want to upgrade I now pay double with zero ability to repair the product myself or upgrade.

- The example of a bigger Trackpad was showing how Apple not wants to change the overal design because of costs.

You only proof to me its about the ecosystem that I'm stuck with Apple, not Apple having the best products.

 

[AustinIllini]

- Take care of our phones? I haven't met anyone that hasn't dropped their phone at some point. Please do tell how you're one in million that never did.

- If we need to use screen protectors than it's obvious a design flaw. Also my previous iPhones didn't had this problem.

- My 17" is more than 8 years old. If I want to upgrade I now pay double with zero ability to repair the product myself or upgrade.

- The example of a bigger Trackpad was showing how Apple not wants to change the overal design because of costs.

You only proof to me its about the ecosystem that I'm stuck with Apple, not Apple having the best products.

• You're complaining about scratches and glass breaking. Obviously we have all survived 12 years of iPhones with glass screens. I assume it's because you don't take good care of your phone.
• Can anyone tell me who uses a better material than glass on their phones?
• Time to get over the repairability thing. Most Windows machines of the same caliber are not repairable, either.
• The Trackpad example was poor

At this point, you're mostly just whining.


Here's a challenge to take your mind off of the horrors of Apple or whatever: Pick a phone, laptop, and tablet setup without Apple devices and tell me why they're a better choice. You can include hardware, software, and ecosystem.

The whining is so silly because there still isn't anyone who does everything Apple does better.

• Google doesn't do hardware as well and has a laughable privacy policy
• Microsoft has surrendered the mobile playing field to Android and iOS
• Samsung services are awful

Trust me, I have tried to find a better ecosystem. I spend a ton of time on the Alternatives thread. There isn't one. Even the ones that come close, I miss how great macOS is and how refined iOS is on the best hardware in the business.

 

[olduser007]

• You're complaining about scratches and glass breaking. Obviously we have all survived 12 years of iPhones with glass screens. I assume it's because you don't take good care of your phone.
• Can anyone tell me who uses a better material than glass on their phones?
• Time to get over the repairability thing. Most Windows machines of the same caliber are not repairable, either.
• The Trackpad example was poor

At this point, you're mostly just whining.


Here's a challenge to take your mind off of the horrors of Apple or whatever: Pick a phone, laptop, and tablet setup without Apple devices and tell me why they're a better choice. You can include hardware, software, and ecosystem.

The whining is so silly because there still isn't anyone who does everything Apple does better.

• Google doesn't do hardware as well and has a laughable privacy policy
• Microsoft has surrendered the mobile playing field to Android and iOS
• Samsung services are awful

Trust me, I have tried to find a better ecosystem. I spend a ton of time on the Alternatives thread. There isn't one. Even the ones that come close, I miss how great macOS is and how refined iOS is on the best hardware in the business.

My complains about the scratches are real. You saying you don't care means you don't care about quality.

Give me one reason why we need a full glass unrepairable design?

No I won't let not being able to repair or upgrade slide. Non repairable doesn't mean its a better product.

And things like Google this, Samsung that, are things I really don't care about.
I don't use those products. I use Apple products so I judge Apple products.

 

[AustinIllini]

My complains about the scratches are real. You saying you don't care means you don't care about quality.

Give me one reason why we need a full glass unrepairable design? To keep the phone light, small, and to support "wireless" charging.

No I won't let not being able to repair or upgrade slide. Non repairable doesn't mean its a better product. Then I'm afraid you're just going to have to get over it.

And things like Google this, Samsung that, are things I really don't care about.
I don't use those products. I use Apple products so I judge Apple products.

So if you don't care about other products in the industry, you're not really in a position to determine if Apple has great products or not.

Let's just call it like it is; you either don't understand or don't want to buy new tech. That's totally fine. Not sure why you take it out on Tim Cook.

 

[olduser007]

So if you don't care about other products in the industry, you're not really in a position to determine if Apple has great products or not.

Let's just call it like it is; you either don't understand or don't want to buy new tech. That's totally fine. Not sure why you take it out on Tim Cook.

Are you just fooling yourself or what.

Are the keyboards on the Macbooks a disaster for years or not?

Ps. Been typing on my 17" Macbook for longer than 8 years now. I'll bet non of the current Macbooks will last that long.

 

[AustinIllini]

Are you just fooling yourself or what.

Are the keyboards on the new macbooks a disaster or not for years now or not?

I'll be honest, I haven't had a problem. My wife had a problem with her keyboard 3.5 years after buying her original 12 inch MacBook.

I don't think anyone here is silly enough to judge Tim Cook's legacy based on failing keyboards. Apple will address it soon, anyway.

I am enjoying watching your complaints evaporate.
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[olduser007]

I'll be honest, I haven't had a problem. My wife had a problem with her keyboard 3.5 years after buying her original 12 inch MacBook.

I don't think anyone here is silly enough to judge Tim Cook's legacy based on failing keyboards. Apple will address it soon, anyway.

I am enjoying watching your complaints evaporate.
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Tim Cook is responsible. John has had his hands behind his back for years.

It's cheaper to edit on some current design than building a complete new one. That's why we have things like bumps on all IOS devices which make it annoying using the device flat on a surface. Forcing you to buy a case. It's the marketing in your head thinking you needed a thinner device etc.

 

[AustinIllini]

Tim Cook is responsible. John has had his hands behind his back for years.

It's cheaper to edit on some current design than building a complete new one. That's why we have things like bumps on all IOS devices which make it annoying using the device flat on a surface. Forcing you to buy a case. It's the marketing in your head thinking you needed a thinner device etc.

You're really off the rails being pretty nitpicky here.

Complaining about durability, but refusing the get a case and complaining about how it won't stay flat on the table? The phone literally could send a man to mars and that's your complaint? And somehow, Tim has ruined Apple because you can't be bothered to take proper care of your device?

Your whole line of discussion is, to put it politely, a bit foolish.

 

[olduser007]

You're really off the rails being pretty nitpicky here.

Complaining about durability, but refusing the get a case and complaining about how it won't stay flat on the table? The phone literally could send a man to mars and that's your complaint? And somehow, Tim has ruined Apple because you can't be bothered to take proper care of your device?

Your whole line of discussion is, to put it politely, a bit foolish.

I gave many examples and the fact is Apple isn't recalling devices because people don't take care of their products. It's because Apple is forced to do so cause of fault in design and the production!

There's no point continuing a conversation with you when all you do is twist everything.

 

[LeeW]

Tim Cook isn't about great products, Tim Cook is all about great profits.

That is true but then products are not his thing, money is so, in fact, he is good at what he is good at. You can't be good at everything, maybe he needs to take a harder look at the people designing the products.

Ives has had his time, maybe they need to let go and have some other input and allow a move away from the designs that we have seen for so long.

So much that could be done with their products but they seem unwilling to shake things up, maybe that is Cook playing too much to the shareholders, I don't know.

 

[Siamchaim]

My gripe with tim cook is the confusion and variety of sizes. Before android would come up with so many different models but steve jobs refused to give in and only produced one size.

Now we have 4 different size iPads and 2 different sizes phones coming out at the same time. I double think a lot and hesitate before buying, should I get a 10.2" iPad or 10.5" air. why am i being forced to make such a choice?

I actually don't mind the same design year in year out. You can use the same cases for different models. I just dont like how they confuse the market with sizes so similar to each other.

 

[everythingapplerainbow]

Every IOS and MacOS is getting worse with bugs.

Craig is great at setting up technologies under the hood, but the UI, user-faceing bugs are everywhere

 

[JagdTiger]

My gripe with tim cook is the confusion and variety of sizes. Before android would come up with so many different models but steve jobs refused to give in and only produced one size.

Now we have 4 different size iPads and 2 different sizes phones coming out at the same time. I double think a lot and hesitate before buying, should I get a 10.2" iPad or 10.5" air. why am i being forced to make such a choice?

I actually don't mind the same design year in year out. You can use the same cases for different models. I just dont like how they confuse the market with sizes so similar to each other.

There should be only odd number sizes, for instance, 7/9/11/13 inch models but not even ones as well so it does not cause confusion in choice of product.