I'm afraid sitting further back doesn't make much of a difference.
What type of display did the pevious generation 20" use?
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Time to speak up about the disappointing iMac
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I'm afraid sitting further back doesn't make much of a difference.
What type of display did the pevious generation 20" use?
I'm not sure but I'm sure someone on here will know. If you do a search using the terms iMac tn pva ips then I'm sure you will find some of the threads which I've come across.
Here's a thread which might help:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/340723/
HTH,
Craig.
Wirelessly posted (LGE-VX9900/1.0 UP.Browser/6.2.3.2 (GUI) MMP/2.0)
The new imac isnt all that bad, but like countless others have said, the glossy screen is a dealbreaker. Forcing it on people is a big turn off for those who dislike such screens. Honestly, i dont expect apple to do anything. Theres always the next revision coming though... We can only hope.
The new imac isnt all that bad, but like countless others have said, the glossy screen is a dealbreaker. Forcing it on people is a big turn off for those who dislike such screens. Honestly, i dont expect apple to do anything. Theres always the next revision coming though... We can only hope.
You won't EVER buy another Mac because.... they used a glossy piece of glass on one line of computer monitors??!?
... you are insane. You know it. We know it. 'THEY' know it, and 'THEY' are coming to get you.
Give it a month and there will be indie companies selling matte glass to change out on your iMac. Or your not purchased iMac. Enjoy PCs.
... you are insane. You know it. We know it. 'THEY' know it, and 'THEY' are coming to get you.
Give it a month and there will be indie companies selling matte glass to change out on your iMac. Or your not purchased iMac. Enjoy PCs.
Unless you see it for yourself, it would be nice for people not to make statements like this..
Unless you see it for yourself, it would be nice for people not to make statements like this..
LOL - I share your frustration, I wonder how many of the complainers have actually seen a new iMac in the flesh!
Well, the way that I look at it is like this:
I'm the customer and they want my money. Until these issues are addressed, I won't be parting with my funds.
And besides, Macs are 90% emotional purchases. Sure there are some pragmatic issues involved with about 10% of the purchases, but the truth is that Windows and Mac do virtually the same thing, albeit with a different flair.
The whole point of the Mac culture is to be different. Why design something that looks like HP's effort to mimic the Mac?
It just doesn't make any sense to me.
-joedy
It appears to me that the screen is really matte, and just like with all other glossy screens, there is glass somewhere in the equation. There really isn't anything apple can do. If they take the glass out, there's a hole, if they just trim it, there's a hole. If they put something else there (IE plexi or something) there's a hole, in the the sexiness.....I mean, it's not a laptop, you use it INSIDE. The colors look better, and more saturated, albeit, artificially, but I can't really see the "MAHPHOTOS!" side of it. I mean, the only thing that would effect is what comes out of the printer, and if don't already know, calibrated or not, it isn't going to be perfect. How to fix glare: Point the desklamp somewhere else, better yet, turn it off and get a real lamp overhead. Become taller, or shorter, whichever kills the glare. Stop compaining. That fixes alot of things.
Unless you see it for yourself, it would be nice for people not to make statements like this..
Amen
I think the obvious solution to the problem is to get a Mac mini and buy my own display. As others have said, not buying an iMac is the best vote of your opinion, however, I used the Apple feedback link to reinforce it. I simply said that anti-glare coating was invented for a good reason.
I don't believe a slight increase in contrast on a display is worth putting up with glare and reflections. The anti-glare screens I'm currently using, including a LCD TV and an Apple Cinema Display look bright and beautiful. No increase in contrast is needed.
I don't believe a slight increase in contrast on a display is worth putting up with glare and reflections. The anti-glare screens I'm currently using, including a LCD TV and an Apple Cinema Display look bright and beautiful. No increase in contrast is needed.
Just got back from the apple store. Checked out the imac. I must say its nicer in person. The glossy screen is fine but the viewing angles on the imac SUCK. Unless you are looking straight at it you can't see it.
I did notice that the 20" imac is thinner than the 24".
I did notice that the 20" imac is thinner than the 24".
Not yet having seen the new iMac, I am not going to bash the glossy screen by hearing what others say. But, what others say about the heat issue is a huge deal to me. Heat kills electronic components: more heat, shorter life. So, after many of my acquaintences who have suffered failed logic boards on Imacs, G3, G4 and G5, I have a concern.
Can anyone report on the Mac Mini regarding how hot they run?
Can anyone report on the Mac Mini regarding how hot they run?
Here's a few reasons why they suck:
1) Ugly. It looks like they asked Dell's design team to make an iMac. I swear, if anybody can look at it and one of the newer Optiplex / Dimensions side by side and not say that if Dell made an All-In-One those are the colors and pattern they'd use (granted it wouldn't be rounded, or polished, or have a huge honkin apple logo front and back, but still). And which genius shipped a white-capped keyboard with a black and Al mac?
2) Display, for multiple reasons:
a) Viewing angles are horrible.
b) I'm not going to re-layout my entire room or office if the lighting is wrong.
c) ANybody wnat to use dual monitors? Any of you ever use a Glossy display side by side with a matte? Every try to calibrate them so they look even remotely close? How many people are ready to rush out and buy one of the half a dozen aftermarket LCDs that use a glossy finish (note that Apple's own Cinema's aren't on this list), and throw out existing displays, just to use duals? If i were Apple i would have tried to match them as closely as possible with the Cinemas and make a push that dual monitors increases producitivity.
d) its a laptop style panel, vs the traditional desktop style (FN vs ISP for those who care). It gives them a distinctly different picture from a desktop display, and one more nail in the coffin of why this model sucks when used with a 2nd display.
3) Graphics -- I don't care if ATI has dedicated themselves to Apple's needs, screwing over the low end guys by not even offering 256MB of graphics memory as a BTO option is just wrong, especially with Leopard and its memory-hungry CoreAnimation right aroudn teh corner. I'm sick of hearing comments on how great WoW runs on this machine, big deal, how old is that game again? How about something made in the last 6 months, let alone something more current (are there even any games out there for the Mac right now that would push those limits...). Its sad when the Macbook Pros have better graphics than the iMacs do.
4) Keyboard -- Being ugly isn't enough, waht is the deal with the function keys? Why don't they just abolish the iMac and make a 20" laptop? F9,10,11, and 12 weren't good enough for Expose and Dashboard? As was noted earlier, this wasn't successful for PCs, why does Apple doing it suddenly make it intelligent and innovative? Were their no Apps out there that used the F1-4 keys? And adding one more modifier, the fn key, great idea. We really could have used one of those located as far away from the first 8 function keys as humanly possible without putting it in the number pad, oh wait! Thats exactly where they put it!
I was psyced to buy one. Really, i was. When i first saw them, wow. Then i saw them in person. Glossy = dealbreaker, i can't use two displays with different finishes. The eyestrain alone would be unbearable, and my machine is a tool even more than it is a toy or an appliance. This means if my eyes hurt after 2 hours, i can't just stop playing my game, or browsing the internet, if i can't remain productive, writing code and scripts, testing, staring at dozens of terminal windows and a boatload of reference material, i don't make money. and if its the display thats the problem, that's a pretty big deal. So am i supposed to spend 2-3 times as much on a Mac Pro that is 5 times the size, has 10x the necessary processing power, not ot mention consumes a boatload more power when running, is noiser and can double as a space heater (not that the iMacs are blocks of dry ice...)? Are you kidding me?!
I can put up with the ugly looks, i can put up with a craptastic keyboard, and i could even put up with a laptop-display in a desktop. But i need 2 things out of my machines, RAM and screen real estate. I guess i'll just suffer along with my Mini on a 20" display and PC with dual 17s" until i either get fed up and buy an overpowered and over priced (for my purposes both are true) Mac Pro or Apple finally releases a 'Mac Semi-Pro' for those who need a workstation but not a server, or a tower the size of a small child or the heat, processing power, or options that come with it.
1) Ugly. It looks like they asked Dell's design team to make an iMac. I swear, if anybody can look at it and one of the newer Optiplex / Dimensions side by side and not say that if Dell made an All-In-One those are the colors and pattern they'd use (granted it wouldn't be rounded, or polished, or have a huge honkin apple logo front and back, but still). And which genius shipped a white-capped keyboard with a black and Al mac?
2) Display, for multiple reasons:
a) Viewing angles are horrible.
b) I'm not going to re-layout my entire room or office if the lighting is wrong.
c) ANybody wnat to use dual monitors? Any of you ever use a Glossy display side by side with a matte? Every try to calibrate them so they look even remotely close? How many people are ready to rush out and buy one of the half a dozen aftermarket LCDs that use a glossy finish (note that Apple's own Cinema's aren't on this list), and throw out existing displays, just to use duals? If i were Apple i would have tried to match them as closely as possible with the Cinemas and make a push that dual monitors increases producitivity.
d) its a laptop style panel, vs the traditional desktop style (FN vs ISP for those who care). It gives them a distinctly different picture from a desktop display, and one more nail in the coffin of why this model sucks when used with a 2nd display.
3) Graphics -- I don't care if ATI has dedicated themselves to Apple's needs, screwing over the low end guys by not even offering 256MB of graphics memory as a BTO option is just wrong, especially with Leopard and its memory-hungry CoreAnimation right aroudn teh corner. I'm sick of hearing comments on how great WoW runs on this machine, big deal, how old is that game again? How about something made in the last 6 months, let alone something more current (are there even any games out there for the Mac right now that would push those limits...). Its sad when the Macbook Pros have better graphics than the iMacs do.
4) Keyboard -- Being ugly isn't enough, waht is the deal with the function keys? Why don't they just abolish the iMac and make a 20" laptop? F9,10,11, and 12 weren't good enough for Expose and Dashboard? As was noted earlier, this wasn't successful for PCs, why does Apple doing it suddenly make it intelligent and innovative? Were their no Apps out there that used the F1-4 keys? And adding one more modifier, the fn key, great idea. We really could have used one of those located as far away from the first 8 function keys as humanly possible without putting it in the number pad, oh wait! Thats exactly where they put it!
I was psyced to buy one. Really, i was. When i first saw them, wow. Then i saw them in person. Glossy = dealbreaker, i can't use two displays with different finishes. The eyestrain alone would be unbearable, and my machine is a tool even more than it is a toy or an appliance. This means if my eyes hurt after 2 hours, i can't just stop playing my game, or browsing the internet, if i can't remain productive, writing code and scripts, testing, staring at dozens of terminal windows and a boatload of reference material, i don't make money. and if its the display thats the problem, that's a pretty big deal. So am i supposed to spend 2-3 times as much on a Mac Pro that is 5 times the size, has 10x the necessary processing power, not ot mention consumes a boatload more power when running, is noiser and can double as a space heater (not that the iMacs are blocks of dry ice...)? Are you kidding me?!
I can put up with the ugly looks, i can put up with a craptastic keyboard, and i could even put up with a laptop-display in a desktop. But i need 2 things out of my machines, RAM and screen real estate. I guess i'll just suffer along with my Mini on a 20" display and PC with dual 17s" until i either get fed up and buy an overpowered and over priced (for my purposes both are true) Mac Pro or Apple finally releases a 'Mac Semi-Pro' for those who need a workstation but not a server, or a tower the size of a small child or the heat, processing power, or options that come with it.
I love the design, that's subjective, and if you haven't seen the screen in person how can you comment. I bet some will like it and some won't.
I just bought one yesterday and I was coming here to ask about one thing but I gotta say this. I've only seen one person with a complaint about anything other than the glossy display, "oh, I can't use it with a window behind me because of the glare." I have an iBook, so yes I've had both a matte and a glossy display, I can adjust the monitor so that I don't have to look at the glare, but the matte display was washed out with sun light shining on it, so if I have to choose between the two, I'll take the glossy one. The graphics card isn't that bad, older games look fine, and if you find a game that runs slowly, turn down the resolution a bit. I put on Unreal 2004 at full everything, and it ran slowly but it was still playable, I can't do that on my iBook for sure, and I can't get the resolution up to a point where it gets slow on the rev b iMac my parents have. go tweak settings till you can play it, way does it matter if it looks it's best if you can make it look okay but at a high speed?
The thing I wanted to ask about was, has anyone played a DVD and had pixelated picture? Or is that just because of the DVDplayer program?
The thing I wanted to ask about was, has anyone played a DVD and had pixelated picture? Or is that just because of the DVDplayer program?
Just curious if you did a "re-layout" of your entire room for your glass covered television? For some reason, it seems like everyone that owns a TV doesn't complain about it's reflections...why complain now with a glossy mac screen?
Just curious.
That's a good point, or they redo there window coverings so their new projector looks better. But not their new iMac. In fact, it better work in the pool as well.
Nope, i lived with (and absolutely hated) the glare for years. Now i finally have a place with decent enough blinds that makes the glare a non-issue.
I will say this one more time: If you use your Mac for hours on end on a daily basis, not an hour here, an hour there, but literally parked in front of it for a full 'shift' of work, which can be anywhere from 6-15 hours for me, a glossy display gives me headaches because of the double image i see (my own reflection, or that of what's behind me, overlaid on top of whatever the display is actually presenting). Maybe you can focus past that, I cannot. Given this ridiculous glare, it makes using this monitor with a 2nd, non-glossy monitor, even more painful because my eyes have to continually refocus. I went through this when using a CRT and an LCD on the same system, i went through this when using my Macbook (glossy) with an external display (20" Samsung 205BW), and i refuse to buy a machine that i cannot use for long periods of time without discomfort. This isn't about "the display is superior", or "you're just mad they don't do X so you're looking for faults". Its about how flaws in the options presented to users. If you like Glossy, great. You'll REALLY enjoy the new iMac. Stop acting like every naysayer is some newb who just can't adapt. There are those of us who have been there, done that, which includes using glossy displays, and we prefer Matte for whatever reason. Personally I don't like the glare caused by it. I don't like how difficult it is to calibrate a glossy display. I don't like that i can't park ANY of my existing displays beside it with any hope of them even remotely resembling the same color pallet, let alone finish of the native display.
Since one of the huge selling points of an iMac is its "big gorgeous display", I don't see it as a minor thing when Apple changes the finish of the display leaving no other option but an under powered Mini or an overpowered Mac Pro.
As mentioned time and time again, pictures don't really do justice. I can take that same type of photo of my television screen when it's off.
The screen has a whole different look and feel when you're actually using it. Plus, I don't know of too many people that have houses as well lit as Apple's showroom. Their lights are meant to make everything sparkle...including the glass.
Hi, first post here, unfortunately a sad one.
On Saturday i went and saw the new 20" iMac. I was almost ready to use my credit card but after 30 minutes of trying different models in the store I was really shocked: these monitors are WAY TOO REFLECTIVE and really annoying. I just wanted to add my voice to those that are complaining. I'm not a pro, so it's not a matter of accurate colors, but the displays are far from being comfortable and relaxing. I can't understand how one can use them for more than 10 minutes in a real domestic/work environment. Does someone really think that a matte option will be available at some point????
On Saturday i went and saw the new 20" iMac. I was almost ready to use my credit card but after 30 minutes of trying different models in the store I was really shocked: these monitors are WAY TOO REFLECTIVE and really annoying. I just wanted to add my voice to those that are complaining. I'm not a pro, so it's not a matter of accurate colors, but the displays are far from being comfortable and relaxing. I can't understand how one can use them for more than 10 minutes in a real domestic/work environment. Does someone really think that a matte option will be available at some point????
As a new iMac owner I don't know what all he fuss is about with regards to heat. The top of my machine never gets above what I would call warm to the touch. I'll try to find a thermometer and take a more objective reading but seriously it is no more warm than any other LCD display I've ever owned. In fact, my machine has been on now for 10 minutes and it is still cold to the touch.
Another iMac myth busted...
Craig.
A couple of corrections to your rant:
1. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - the new iMac's are clearly gorgeous!
Dell would never make anything so well engineered and you know it!2. Viewing angle of the 20" isn't great but the 24" is 178 degrees so unless you're trying to view the screen from behind it then it shouldn't be a problem...
If your office lighting is wrong then it's wrong so why not get it right!
Again, there are big difference between the 20" and 24". The 20" is apparently a TN display (not sure what "FN" is) but the 24" is either PVA or IPS (not sure what "ISP" is either). This results in no colour shift vertically with viewing angle.
3. You appear to be talking about the 2400 GPU because if you had been folllowing the various thread's about the 2600 you would see that it is not just a bog standard 2600 Pro. There is good reason to believe that it is closer to a 2600XT than a Pro due to memory and clocking differences. Bear in mind also, that the "low end guys" now get a 20" screen instead of a 17" one.
4. I'm usign teh kybord ryt now nad ist fine! (only kidding). I don't know what all the fuss is about - it's very productive when you give it a proper try with an open mind. I wasn't sure if I'd be able to get used to it but I find the shorter key travel actually good for speed and it is more relaxing on the fingers/hands too.
I respect your views but obviously don't share them. However, you have done what I would recommend to anyone to do and that is to go to a store and see for yourself.
Cheers,
Craig.