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To those who think the MacBook Air M2 isn't a good value...
- Thread starter tubuliferous
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Did you factor in the software that comes with the price of the two machines? The Mac comes with a word processor, a spreadsheet, photo editing, presentation software, and a host of others Don't know what the Dell comes with.Out of genuine curiosity I looked at a Dell ultrabook to see how new PC offerings compare to the MacBook Air M2.
Dell Latitude 9330 2-in-1: Latitude Laptops | Dell USA
View the Dell Latitude 9330 ultra-premium commercial 2-in-1 featuring a 13 inch screen and intelligent collaboration, or shop all Latitude laptops at Dell.comwww.dell.com
The current-generation Dell Latitude 9330 seems like a pretty good comparison; the computer is thin (about 1.4 cm thick closed), it has a 13.3-inch display, and it's lightweight at about 2.8 pounds. The base model internal specs are:
• Intel Core i5-1230U CPU with 10 cores
• Integrated Intel Iris Xe with 8 GB memory
• 8 GB RAM
• 256 GB SSD
This base model Latitude 9330 currently sells for $2,251.08
By comparison, the base model MacBook Air M2 is about 1.13 cm thick closed, has a 13.6-inch display, and is also lightweight at about 2.7 pounds. The base model specs are:
• Apple Silicon M2 CPU with 8 cores
• Integrated Apple M2 GPU with shared memory
• 8 GB RAM
• 256 GB SSD
This base model MacBook Air M2 sells for $1,199.00
The performance of the Apple M2 vs. the Intel Core i5 1230U (including graphics performance) is consistently and substantially better in the following suite of tests:
Intel Core i5 1230U vs Apple M2: performance comparison
We compared Intel Core i5 1230U (1 GHz) against Apple M2 (3.5 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.nanoreview.net
Perhaps throttling of the M2 on the MacBook Air will bring the Dell closer to Apple in performance, but I couldn’t find information on Intel chip throttling, and I can’t say for sure that the Dell is not substantially throttled during sustained workloads.
It seems to me that the Apple laptop is a better value when compared to the Dell (over $1,000 less and with likely better performance) before considering any software needs from the consumer—the prospective consumer may find the Apple software realm a benefit or a liability depending on needs/familiarity (I would argue that the ability to run Windows software in virtualization, e.g. Parallels, or in a compatibility layer, e.g. Crossover, should take care of most Windows software needs).
The Dell DOES have the advantage of user-upgradeable RAM (I believe up to 64 GB), user-upgradable SSD (I think up to 2 TB through third parties; Dell apparently only sells upgrades up to 1 TB), and a touch-screen display that folds back for tablet-like functionality.
If you upgrade the RAM in the MacBook Air to the maximum 24 GB and upgrade the SSD to 1 TB (thus avoiding the much-decried Apple base model single-module SSD slowdowns), the price is $1,999, STILL well under the base model Dell ($252.08 less expensive).
If you REALLY need a touch screen display or a native Windows laptop, the Dell might make sense, but otherwise it just doesn’t seem to be a great deal.
The Dell Latitude 9330 is the first and only Windows laptop I looked at closely in my cursory search for a comparable computer, and maybe there are other ultrabooks from other companies that compare more favorably to the MacBook Air M2.
What do you folks think?
________
(Edit)
So it's been brought to my attention by a responder that the Dell XPS Plus is a much more apt comparison to the MacBook Air:
XPS 9320 Plus Laptop : Dell XPS Laptop Computers | Dell USA
Shop the Dell XPS Plus 13 inch laptop featuring 13th Gen Intel Core processors with a modern design, or view all Dell XPS laptop computers at Dell.com.www.dell.com
I'd simply not been accustomed to the variety of Dell laptop models and selected the wrong comparison.
The XPS 13 Plus base model comes with a 512 GB SSD, so starting with the base MacBook Air and configuring it with a 512 GB SSD makes the Air $100 more expensive than the XPS ($1,399 for the Air, $1,299 for the XPS. The base model XPS has:
• Intel Core i5-1240P CPU with 12 cores
• Integrated Intel Iris Xe with 8 GB memory
• 8 GB RAM
• 512 GB SSD
• 13.4" LCD display at 1920 x 1200 resolution
I still argue that the M2 Air is not insanely overpriced at this near-baseline comparison, especially considering that the Air has a slightly larger, higher-resolution screen, and the base M2 seems to have a generally better CPU and much better GPU performance than the Intel Core i5 1240P in the XPS:
Intel Core i5 1240P vs Apple M2: performance comparison
We compared Intel Core i5 1240P (1.7 GHz) against Apple M2 (3.5 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.nanoreview.net
*It should be noted in the GPU comparison that it's unclear whether the GPU listed on NanoReview is the 8-core base M2 or the upgraded 10-core M2. Either way the M2 GPU should pretty handily beat the Intel Iris Xe.
As other responders have pointed out, the picture changes when we start to up-configure the two computers. For example, Dell charges $100 for an upgrade from 8 GB to 16 GB of RAM, and Apple charges $200 for an upgrade from 8 GB to 16 GB. Upgrading the XPS from a 512 GB to a 2 TB SSD costs $300, and the same upgrade costs $600 on the Air. Comparable hardware upgrades in general seem to be about twice as expensive for the Air.
So a fully-upgraded XPS 13 has the following specs:
• Intel Core i7-1280p CPU with 12 cores
• Integrated Intel Iris Xe with 8 GB memory
• 32 GB RAM
• 2 TB SSD
• 13.4" OLED touch screen display at 3456 x 2160 resolution
Cost: $2,399
A fully-upgraded Air M2 has the following specs:
• M2 CPU with 8 cores
• Integrated GPU with 10 cores
• 24 GB RAM
• 2 TB SSD
• 13.6" LCD display at 2560 x 1664 resolution
Cost: $2,499
I was not expecting the price to be so close.
The Air still costs more fully-upgraded, despite having less RAM and an probably much inferior, non-touch display. On the other hand, the Air has a much more powerful GPU, much better battery life, and some quality-of-life advantages like magsafe charging.
The CPU comparison between the Intel Core i7-1280p and the M2 (at least in synthetic benchmarks) doesn't indicate a clear-cut winner, with the M2 seeming to have the edge in power efficiency and single-core performance, and the i7 with an edge in multicore performance (which isn't totally surprising considering it has 14 cores to the M2's 8):
Intel Core i7 1280P vs Apple M2: performance comparison
We compared Intel Core i7 1280P (1.8 GHz) against Apple M2 (3.5 GHz) in games and benchmarks. Find out which CPU has better performance.nanoreview.net
The bottom line for me is that in spite of some VERY expensive RAM and SSD upgrades on the Air (and I'd love to see Apple ease up on those prices), the overall price disparity against the Air's PC rivals isn't totally absurd. One could go on for weeks about the advantages or disadvantages of the respective Windows and MacOS ecosystems, but I intentionally avoided getting into that territory in this post. The Air is in my opinion an expensive (but not absurdly expensive) computer that people should NOT feel ripped off to buy.
Thanks for the feedback, folks!
If you want to run enterprise grade engineering simulation software you need to be able to run Windows or Linux programs on x86.
it mostly depends on the company, which makes the software. Most make just one Windows version but some make Mac apps too. Transition to M1 also is not helping right now, but once completed, larger companies may release more Mac apps.
Maybe it’s suggesting that you will constantly be envying other people’s laptops after using one.
It is kind of like how everyone complains McDonalds food is crap but they keep going there.
Hard to beat the Egg McMuffin
You probably can run them on Windows 11 ARM edition via Parallels. I have programs that work fine that way. Understand that you might not want to run production apps on a development OS.
Engineering ain't my field but wouldn't there be a cloud implementation of said enterprise grade engineering software in 2022? To my ears running any enterprise grade simulation locally on a laptop doesn't sound very smart.
Candy crush probably.
But seriously, there is libre office and other open source software that I would not say that this sort of preinstalled software is that important to factor in in general.
Huh? This is the standard screen resolution for this sort of laptops in 2022. The vast majority of laptops have this.
If you are happy with the base configurations I would say that all of the Apple laptops represent fairly good value. The relatively low RAM/SSD specs are compensated for by Mac OS, build quality and the various other features that Apple does so well (trackpad, keyboard, speakers, etc.).
The problem - and it's a big one - is that the costs of upgrades to the base model are absurd. To buy 1.5tb extra SSD adds £600 to the price of the 'high end' M2 Air configuration - that's an eye-watering £400 per TB.
A fast 2TB PCIe 4.0 SSD is about £250 retail, so £125 per TB. Even allowing a hefty margin for Apple it looks like gouging.
RAM is harder to compare as LPDDR5 isn't the kind of thing you buy at Amazon, but there Apple charges £400 to add 16GB. A decent DDR5 RAM module for a laptop costs £90 for 16GB.
Other laptop manufacturers also try and shaft their customers with upgrade pricing, but that doesn't make it right for Apple (or any of them).
IMHO M2 is good value as a base laptop but pretty poor once you spec it up.
The problem - and it's a big one - is that the costs of upgrades to the base model are absurd. To buy 1.5tb extra SSD adds £600 to the price of the 'high end' M2 Air configuration - that's an eye-watering £400 per TB.
A fast 2TB PCIe 4.0 SSD is about £250 retail, so £125 per TB. Even allowing a hefty margin for Apple it looks like gouging.
RAM is harder to compare as LPDDR5 isn't the kind of thing you buy at Amazon, but there Apple charges £400 to add 16GB. A decent DDR5 RAM module for a laptop costs £90 for 16GB.
Other laptop manufacturers also try and shaft their customers with upgrade pricing, but that doesn't make it right for Apple (or any of them).
IMHO M2 is good value as a base laptop but pretty poor once you spec it up.
About 5-10 years ago Windows definitely offered better value. I remember getting an old Dell XPS with a better CPU and graphics than a MacBook for cheaper.
But seemingly since the last few years, and especially since the introduction of Apple's own silicone, it actually appears to be pretty even.
But seemingly since the last few years, and especially since the introduction of Apple's own silicone, it actually appears to be pretty even.
Yep. And I think 1080 on a laptop screen up to 13/14" is perfectly acceptable, especially if it's an OLED. I'm a bit of a display snob, but the 1080p OLED screen on my 13" Samsung laptop looks great.
I agree for the most part. I think the base models are excellent value for the vast majority. The upgrade pricing is most certainly gouging to an extent, but given the demand, the company is well within their rights to do so. However, I would assume that the price isn't a factor for the people who are maxing these machines out. It would be quite silly for folks to rant about pricing while willingly paying more.
That is a dystopian precedent to acquiesce to.
With that logic, Apple should supply constrain on purpose just to squeeze and screw their customers
That's not at all what I'm suggesting. It's just simple business economics. As market share & demand increase, so do prices. I'm not saying anyone is happy about it, but that's just the way it is. People will complain about it, yet continue to pay whatever Apple charges, due to brand loyalty. Charging $200 for an 8GB stick of RAM is certainly exorbitant, but if there's no dip in profits, why would the company stop?
Yeah, we've got this M2 Thermal Gate issue going on. But the second Dell is off charger, it throttles in a huge way. It still sucks power fast if you do really hard stuff on it even in the throttled state.
just saw that the quest 2 is going up $100 (both models). wait... what? prices don't stay the same every year?
i'm still mad the nyc subway is no longer 25 cents... 🤔
i'm still mad the nyc subway is no longer 25 cents... 🤔
That’s a complicated topic. The pricing reflects some abstract „capability“, not the manufacturing cost. And there is certain logic to it. Apple has been applying this model consistently over the years.
There is also another aspect to this. An 8GB stack for M1 probably costs them at least $50, more for M2, but if they lover the prices they will run into supply constrains. If you can only ship X units and customers happily pay you Y, why would you charge less than that? It’s not like lower cost will help you sell more units if you will run out of stock anyway.
The M2 MBA is a pretty crap actually.
The only reason why it exists is that Apple won’t allow the M1 12.9 iPad Pro to run Mac OS natively.
The only reason why it exists is that Apple won’t allow the M1 12.9 iPad Pro to run Mac OS natively.
Not only that but the m1 pro was $1699 at Best Buy. I ended up going with that.
Apple priced themselves awkwardly on the m2
ok, but why is it crap? are you unhappy with yours? and do you have a source for your claim about 'why it exists'?
it's easy to say 'this is crap', but much more useful to share why you think so...