To those who use windows

[The_Joker13]

I’ll try to keep this brief. Right now I’m limping along with a 2010 iMac. It’s been a wonderful machine that has given me very little trouble over the past 8 years but I’m ready to upgrade. My next purchase will be a laptop. I’m awaiting to see what Apple unveils with the new Macbook pros before I pull the trigger. Obviously I’m not expecting anything groundbreaking with upgrades but from many accounts the current gen is underwhelming. I don’t care about gaming(I’m a console guy), my uses are limited to Microsoft office and some light websurfing. I was hoping to hear from some of you that intermingle iOS with a windows machine. I love iOS for what it is and my iPad Pro is perfect for travel and my needs. I have no interest in leaving. The main reason I would stick with a mac is the ecosystem, I like safari, but that’s about it.

 

[dk001]

Use both a rMB and Thinkpad Yoga. Use an IPP 12.9 G2. Recently switched from a 7+ to a Razer (Android).
In the past, the biggest benefit to my rMB was the ability to seamlessly move from iPhone to iPad to MB. If this is your use case, I would stick with the MB. However, I have found that the Yoga with a touchscreen is, has become my go to laptop. And yes, I have Safari installed as an alternative browser.

 

[The_Joker13]

Use both a rMB and Thinkpad Yoga. Use an IPP 12.9 G2. Recently switched from a 7+ to a Razer (Android).
In the past, the biggest benefit to my rMB was the ability to seamlessly move from iPhone to iPad to MB. If this is your use case, I would stick with the MB. However, I have found that the Yoga with a touchscreen is, has become my go to laptop. And yes, I have Safari installed as an alternative browser.

I’ve found myself looking real hard at a thinkpad. It just seems like a really solid choice for me and they seem to have pretty good reviews. I really hope Apple can put something out at WWDC that I can be happy with, but after the last couple mbp releases, I’m doubtful.

 

[alien3dx]

I’ve found myself looking real hard at a thinkpad. It just seems like a really solid choice for me and they seem to have pretty good reviews. I really hope Apple can put something out at WWDC that I can be happy with, but after the last couple mbp releases, I’m doubtful.

Unsure what purpose is this . My eye quite strain pro long using imac instead of laptop . But in mean time using prolong computer is bad habit . Choose lenovo thinkpad series not lenovo average series for long term . Linux and windows more user friendly for me. While mac just for work purpose and have dungoen of limitation especialy memory management . Apple wouldnt provided cheap laptop unless ipad . If ipad can work like normal mac mini 16gb ram , i'm sure a lot of people will flock to mac

 

[S.B.G]

If you're looking to save money over a Mac or you're just looking for a change because you aren't happy with what Apple has to offer right now, I'd recommend avoiding Windows and consider Linux on that Thinkpad or other IBM-compatible PC.

I use macOS at home exclusively for the most part, but as a sysadmin at work who manages a Windows domain, I am using Linux as my main work PC.

A few distro's I recommend are KDE Neon, Ubuntu, Fedora or Pop!_OS. My favorite is KDE Neon and that's what I'm using at work to manage my Windows domain.

I'd been using Windows 10 since it was in early beta all the way up until recently when I became so dissatisfied with it. That's when I switched to KDE Neon at work and I'm finding it does some Windows original tasks a lot better than Windows itself does.

Since you don't game on computers Linux is a solid choice to consider if you aren't going to get another Mac.

 

[maflynn]

Since you don't game on computers Linux is a solid choice to consider if you aren't going to get another Mac.

More often then not, I found Linux lacking, whether its needing to monkey with conf files, to get something working, or the lack of apps needed. I've also had issues upgrading to a newer version, I've almost always needed to re-edit those configuration files. I think the OP may find himself spending more time working on the system, rather then getting work done.

I'll offer a caveat that my linux usage is very limited now a days, and its been a few years since I was using almost fulltime.

For linux flavors, I'd opt for Ubuntu over Neon, just because Neon is built on Ubuntu, so why not just use a LTS version of Ubuntu. I would choose Mint for those not familiar with Linux, or Ubuntu. The latter has a strong community that is very helpful in helping with issues as well.

One last thought about linux. An operating system's job at the most basic definition, is to run programs, and that's one thing on the desktop (as opposed to servers), falls down. I found many open source apps, some are quite cool, some started out cool, but because its open source, people drifted away from supporting it. If all you need is office and a web browser, maybe that's not an issue. I went back to OS X, because Linux lacked all iOS integration.

I'm not down on Linux, I use it daily to run virtual images, but I'm a big proponent of running the right tool for the job and running linux as a windows/OSX replacement may not be a good tool depending on the person's need.

 

[alien3dx]

both above post mention about neon.. will check it out.. the last time era linux i used just fedora,ubuntu.

 

[vkd]

My wife has Ubuntu on her Lenovo laptop, she likes it a lot, it runs far better than W10 that's for sure. Our main problem is installing anything. Last attempt came in some .deb arrangement, anyway you click on it and it didn't install. Basically that's the story with all installs on Linux; there seems to be 3 or more arrangements or systems incl. this .deb to install but none of them work. Seems to be a convoluted techie mystery we are not mentally equipped to cope with. Does anyone know of a simple process or method to install stuff on Ubuntu?

 

[alien3dx]

My wife has Ubuntu on her Lenovo laptop, she likes it a lot, it runs far better than W10 that's for sure. Our main problem is installing anything. Last attempt came in some .deb arrangement, anyway you click on it and it didn't install. Basically that's the story with all installs on Linux; there seems to be 3 or more arrangements or systems incl. this .deb to install but none of them work. Seems to be a convoluted techie mystery we are not mentally equipped to cope with. Does anyone know of a simple process or method to install stuff on Ubuntu?

https://www.tecmint.com/things-you-mostly-need-to-do-after-installing-ubuntu-16-04/4/
Got ui for package manager.. For mac using homebrew, not sure if got gui package manager.
Windows also have package manager like https://chocolatey.org

 

[spooklog]

For average day-to-day usage, I've found Windows 10 to be fast and stable, and compatible with my iPhone. Apple makes a Windows version of iTunes, as well as an app for iCloud, plus the utility to administer Airport routers. I'm a long-time Mac user and my trusty 2012 Mini broke down recently and I replaced it with a sub-$1000 AMD-based Windows machine. No real complaints. I'm planning to add an iMac or Mini later; from past experience I know that basic networking between Windows 10 and MacOS is straightforward.

I should add that Windows 10 can handily work with Mac-formatted drives, if you install the right file system driver on the Windows 10. I currently use software from Paragon. This allows me to work with the files and drives without a hitch.

 

[BenTrovato]

Windows 10 is great and I'm going to say it performs better than High Sierra right now.

Macs are over priced for the tech you get inside BUT.. big BUT, the machines are a lot nicer. The exterior is beautiful and MacOS is still more pleasing to the eye than Win10. Office runs much better on Windows than on Mac (obviously). The only ecosystem part I hate is that iMessage doesn't work which hopefully gets put on the cloud shortly. Macs have always been "nicer". All other ecosystem features are workable although I'm sure someone has a case where it doesn't play well.

If I'm going laptop-only I would go with Apple. Premium quality/service and you're always touching/looking at it so I would pay the extra. Desktop wise, for me it's just not worth the hardware price hike for what you get.

 

[dk001]

Windows 10 is great and I'm going to say it performs better than High Sierra right now.

Macs are over priced for the tech you get inside BUT.. big BUT, the machines are a lot nicer. The exterior is beautiful and MacOS is still more pleasing to the eye than Win10. Office runs much better on Windows than on Mac (obviously). The only ecosystem part I hate is that iMessage doesn't work which hopefully gets put on the cloud shortly. Macs have always been "nicer". All other ecosystem features are workable although I'm sure someone has a case where it doesn't play well.

If I'm going laptop-only I would go with Apple. Premium quality/service and you're always touching/looking at it so I would pay the extra. Desktop wise, for me it's just not worth the hardware price hike for what you get.

I will say that I have far less issues on the Yoga than my rMB. Didn't used to be that way

 

[The_Joker13]

Thanks everyone for the replies, it’s much appreciated. I have no interest in Linux, but thanks to those that gave the suggestion. I’m keeping my fingers crossed Apple has something for me in June, but if not I see a thinkpad in my future.

 

[maflynn]

I'm going to amend my opinion of Linux, I know the OP just posted above this post about no interest in Linux, but I would like to restate me opinion
In the thread: Linux Mint vs Mac OS I posted my latest attempt to install/use Linux. I'll not duplicate that post, but suffice to say the operation was largely successful.

Since you don't game on computers Linux is a solid choice to consider if you aren't going to get another Mac.

I'm going to say I was wrong in some of my assessment of linux. My opinion was born out of stale and out of date information, and in my ignorance I put forth an argument that may very well be largely off the mark. I'm actually quite pleased with my initial success of install Linux on my SurfaceBook. Its not perfect, but for what I do use the SB for, I think it should be fine. I need to fix the small annoyances that do exist and then I can fully vet out the stability, performance and usability of the OS.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed Apple has something for me in June, but if not I see a thinkpad in my future.

So what's more important to you, hardware or software (by software I include the OS and apps)?

What I mean by this, is your frustration born out of inadaquite hardware from Apple? It seems you're wanting to leave the platform due to Apple's laptop offerings, but you lament what Windows has to offer, at least in terms of iOS integrations.

Why not look to buy a used machine, or even a new "2015" laptop from Apple? If you enjoy the ecosystem that Apple provides and the OS is stable and fullfill your needs, then looking for hardware shouldn't be a show stopper if you widen criteria. The thinkpad is not a pad machine, I'm partial the Dell XPS myself and almost pulled the trigger a few times this past year, however what kept stopping me, is the apple ecosystem. I find that I'll lose too much if I leave the platform outright, and while high sierra is not perfect, this latest update has increased the stability for me. Random crashes have since stopped which is a big one that I was dealing with. From my perspective how your work is more important then what you work on.

 

[S.B.G]

I'm going to say I was wrong in some of my assessment of linux. My opinion was born out of stale and out of date information, and in my ignorance I put forth an argument that may very well be largely off the mark. I'm actually quite pleased with my initial success of install Linux on my SurfaceBook. Its not perfect, but for what I do use the SB for, I think it should be fine. I need to fix the small annoyances that do exist and then I can fully vet out the stability, performance and usability of the OS.

Some distro's of Linux have come a long way over the recent years when it comes to installation and usability.

My experience with most of the distro's I've used recently have been positive ones. My work PC now running KDE Neon has been wonderful. It installed with no problems whatsoever on a Dell Optiplex 990 with a Samsung SSD inside and dual monitors. It worked "out of the box" if you will and I didn't need to customize any conf files or anything else. I just setup the usual stuff any new OS install would require on macOS or Windows, such as specific network information.

I like to have and use technology that makes my experience nice and as easy as can be. Having to compile programs on Linux and build everything that I need in order to use said Linux is not what I want. Hence, I don't use Gentoo Linux!

It's my belief that technology should make things easier, not more difficult.

 

[maflynn]

Having to compile programs on Linux and build everything that I need in order to use said Linux is not what I want.

Agreed, In researching which distro to use, I came across directions to install one of them on Surface Book and it required editting source files and rebuilding the kernel. I'm happy with Ubuntu, but maybe I'll load up a live USB of Neon. I had booted up Kubuntu but it didn't properly set the display and it was difficult working with that on my SB

 

[The_Joker13]

I'm going to amend my opinion of Linux, I know the OP just posted above this post about no interest in Linux, but I would like to restate me opinion
In the thread: Linux Mint vs Mac OS I posted my latest attempt to install/use Linux. I'll not duplicate that post, but suffice to say the operation was largely successful.


I'm going to say I was wrong in some of my assessment of linux. My opinion was born out of stale and out of date information, and in my ignorance I put forth an argument that may very well be largely off the mark. I'm actually quite pleased with my initial success of install Linux on my SurfaceBook. Its not perfect, but for what I do use the SB for, I think it should be fine. I need to fix the small annoyances that do exist and then I can fully vet out the stability, performance and usability of the OS.


So what's more important to you, hardware or software (by software I include the OS and apps)?

What I mean by this, is your frustration born out of inadaquite hardware from Apple? It seems you're wanting to leave the platform due to Apple's laptop offerings, but you lament what Windows has to offer, at least in terms of iOS integrations.

Why not look to buy a used machine, or even a new "2015" laptop from Apple? If you enjoy the ecosystem that Apple provides and the OS is stable and fullfill your needs, then looking for hardware shouldn't be a show stopper if you widen criteria. The thinkpad is not a pad machine, I'm partial the Dell XPS myself and almost pulled the trigger a few times this past year, however what kept stopping me, is the apple ecosystem. I find that I'll lose too much if I leave the platform outright, and while high sierra is not perfect, this latest update has increased the stability for me. Random crashes have since stopped which is a big one that I was dealing with. From my perspective how your work is more important then what you work on.

It’s mostly a hardware issue for me. I love the OS and the ecosystem but I feel like Apple is just “mailing it in” and not sure they deserve my money. It will be a difficult decision, especially considering my trust in apple’s customer service. They’ve always taken care of me when their products have failed. iPad Pro Smart Keyboard as the latest example.

 

[maflynn]

but I feel like Apple is just “mailing it in” and not sure they deserve my money.

Two things that rub me the wrong way.
1. The high price of the MBP, correct me if I'm wrong, but apple raised the price of the MBP in 2016 and it really hasn't gone down. Do I really want to spend nearly 3k for a laptop (add in applecare and boom, you're near 3,000 dollars).
2. The keyboard is a failure in terms of quality.

I don't have an asnwer, I may very well buy a new MBP if the 2018 models show promise, and if they don't, well I don't know what I'm going to do.

 

[robbietop]

I don't know what you mean by "underwhelming". Light web surfing does not need 32GB of RAM, which is the only issue the MBP has right now in terms of underwhelming performance.

Kaby Lake supports up to 16GB of RAM (more than twice what Chrome hogs haha), the MBP has a Retina display, the new ForceTouch Trackpad, the gimmicky TouchBar or Function keys, and the 15.4" has a mid-road discrete GPU. And with Thunderbolt 3 USB-C, you can add e-GPUs via PCIe over Thunderbolt.

And without a starting config with a HDD, the machines will last longer and maintain their speed over time.

I can understand that you are price conscious. I am too. It's why I am holding on to my 2012 MBP Unibody. Maybe they will understand the TouchBar is a gimmick and give us TouchID with Function keys?

 

[maflynn]

32GB of RAM, which is the only issue the MBP has right now in terms of underwhelming performance.

I will go out on a limb and say the majority of buyers for the MBP do not need 32GB of ram, and if you're not running apps that require it, have that much ram (and not be used) will have zero impact on performance. Plus I will say that is not the only issue facing the MBP

 

[robbietop]

Yeah, you are right on that. The butterfly keys are awful. My MacBook is having the issue right now and it is mind numbing and just honestly something Apple ten years ago would have never allowed out into the wild.

I forgot to add my advice: BUY ASUS. Seriously. ASUS laptops are used in our environment, Windows 10 is fantastic, and with BASH in 10 you'll have native Linux support within Windows Shell. Plus, their machines are great quality parts and the machine is user configurable; something Apple has been loathe to do lately.

 

[The_Joker13]

I don't know what you mean by "underwhelming". Light web surfing does not need 32GB of RAM, which is the only issue the MBP has right now in terms of underwhelming performance.

Kaby Lake supports up to 16GB of RAM (more than twice what Chrome hogs haha), the MBP has a Retina display, the new ForceTouch Trackpad, the gimmicky TouchBar or Function keys, and the 15.4" has a mid-road discrete GPU. And with Thunderbolt 3 USB-C, you can add e-GPUs via PCIe over Thunderbolt.

And without a starting config with a HDD, the machines will last longer and maintain their speed over time.

I can understand that you are price conscious. I am too. It's why I am holding on to my 2012 MBP Unibody. Maybe they will understand the TouchBar is a gimmick and give us TouchID with Function keys?

Well, for starters, the keyboard issue to me is “underwhelming” regardless of how widespread it truly is. There is definitely an issue with it, that can’t be ignored. The removal of MagSafe without any logical explanation. Many of the high end laptops from other company’s have near borderless displays while apple does not. They only have USB-C. Battery life is less than impressive from the reviews I’ve seen, where in the past Apple seemed to lead the industry. I’m willing to pay the Apple tax if I feel I’m getting my moneys worth.

 

[hajime]

Two things that rub me the wrong way.
1. The high price of the MBP, correct me if I'm wrong, but apple raised the price of the MBP in 2016 and it really hasn't gone down. Do I really want to spend nearly 3k for a laptop (add in applecare and boom, you're near 3,000 dollars).
2. The keyboard is a failure in terms of quality.

I don't have an asnwer, I may very well buy a new MBP if the 2018 models show promise, and if they don't, well I don't know what I'm going to do.

Shall we just buy it right away and try out the keyboard ourselves or wait for a few weeks to see how it goes?
[doublepost=1527254835][/doublepost]

Yeah, you are right on that. The butterfly keys are awful. My MacBook is having the issue right now and it is mind numbing and just honestly something Apple ten years ago would have never allowed out into the wild.

I forgot to add my advice: BUY ASUS. Seriously. ASUS laptops are used in our environment, Windows 10 is fantastic, and with BASH in 10 you'll have native Linux support within Windows Shell. Plus, their machines are great quality parts and the machine is user configurable; something Apple has been loathe to do lately.

I tried them out at Microsoft Store. Very lovely but it looks like they can't drive 4K display at 60Hz due to HDMI 1.4.

 

[S.B.G]

I will go out on a limb and say the majority of buyers for the MBP do not need 32GB of ram, and if you're not running apps that require it, have that much ram (and not be used) will have zero impact on performance. Plus I will say that is not the only issue facing the MBP

I have 16 GB of RAM in my MBP and 8 GB in my Mac mini and both run fine. For what I do, including running VMs, I don’t need any more than 16 GB and wouldn’t waste my money on more at this point.

 

[maflynn]

Shall we just buy it right away and try out the keyboard ourselves or wait for a few weeks to see how it goes?

It really depends on whether Apple mentions anything about the keyboard. Even in marketing speak, if we hear words like new and improved, version 3, etc. Then its safe to assume they did something. Whether that translates into a buy now decision is difficult. Consider that it took a bit of time for the keyboards to fail.

In your prior posts you seem very unhappy with Apple and the MBP, so I would say in your case, I'd not bother with apple, since the keyboard is just one short coming on your list.

I'm not knocking you, or trying to sound harsh, but just pointing out that if the MBP doesn't do what you want it to, then a newer keyboard isn't going to help you