Which was actually trickier than it sounded, because IBM published the source code for it. How could you prove that you hadn't looked at the source?
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Too many people hate Apple for no reason
- Thread starter iHorseHead
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It can and it makes me hate Apple.
I have a several high-end printers and scanners from Sony, Nikon, Canon, and Epson. Luckily my cheapest one I use for banging out alternative process prints will be supported a bit longer I hope by Canon. The rest are all dependent on software that is no longer supported with the 32-bit removal and the manufacturers have shown no interest in updating drivers.
That leaves me in a spot where if I want to get security updates on my main computer a 2018 Mac Mini, I need to upgrade beyond Mojave and break everything or switch to Windows and be fine for probably another decade.
Good reason to hate Apple in my opinion.
So you hate Apple because the company that made your printers no longer support them and update the drivers... That makes perfect logical sense 🤣
Computers are tools. Apple heralded the Mac as the tool for the artist and the creative.
If an OS update removes key functionality of the other tools, why wouldn't I be upset? If a $300 Windows box can run the software that Apple removed functionality for, why wouldn't I want to use that?
I'd have a more positive view in 2022 and beyond if they'd use more of their engineering and design prowess to make the hardware products even more flexible and user friendly.
Apple themselves realize that iPhone upgrade cycles have slowed. It'd be amazing if they'd make a more modular and next generation concept that recognizes that (just one example).
Similarly, even if they wanted to build in and solder down RAM & Storage on something like the Mac Studio -- there is no reason -- like NONE -- that they couldn't have made a user accessible (would have been done well, as Apple does things) NVMe slot for additional storage expansion beyond the soldered down/exclusive parts.
I guess my main frustration is this switch to services and so much seeking revenue from "forcing upgrades at time of purchase by design" and the like.
And then some things that are just egregious and honestly bad design, like the Apple Studio Display stand situation.
That should be designed, from moment one, to have an adjustable stand as default and be user convertible to VESA mounting and vice versa -- out of the box and standard. It's lazy design to not have done better on this.
They make nice stuff - and it's often expensive -- and I think it's ok to demand better from them on some of this.
Also -- make new AirPort Mesh routers please -- like yesterday!
Apple themselves realize that iPhone upgrade cycles have slowed. It'd be amazing if they'd make a more modular and next generation concept that recognizes that (just one example).
Similarly, even if they wanted to build in and solder down RAM & Storage on something like the Mac Studio -- there is no reason -- like NONE -- that they couldn't have made a user accessible (would have been done well, as Apple does things) NVMe slot for additional storage expansion beyond the soldered down/exclusive parts.
I guess my main frustration is this switch to services and so much seeking revenue from "forcing upgrades at time of purchase by design" and the like.
And then some things that are just egregious and honestly bad design, like the Apple Studio Display stand situation.
That should be designed, from moment one, to have an adjustable stand as default and be user convertible to VESA mounting and vice versa -- out of the box and standard. It's lazy design to not have done better on this.
They make nice stuff - and it's often expensive -- and I think it's ok to demand better from them on some of this.
Also -- make new AirPort Mesh routers please -- like yesterday!
Apple didn’t remove any functionality. The operating system gets updated and it’s up to software developers to keep their software current. If HP or whoever isn’t making a current driver for macOS perhaps you should be posting your complaints on their forums
I totally agree with InuNacho. Of course it’s up to the printer/device manufacturer, but like Windows for example provides at least default (perfectly) working drivers, whereas with MacOs you need to buy new devices Or rely on what the device manufacturer does. It‘s pretty frustrating that you need to explain that to your parents who you just lured into the Apple environment
in my opinion, Apple get's a lot of hate due to the snobbery attitude of it's many Apple owners who persistantly deride Windows OS computers and Android phones as being inferior to Apple OS and iphone and thus implying owners of such Apple items are a better class of person than Windows and/Android owners.
Another reason in my opinion which again comes down to the snobbery attitude is the amount of Apple owners who like to persistantly gloat to others about being the owner of an Apple device based on the reasoni that Apple devices are expensive and thus not everyone who wants on can afford one so they have to go for the cheaper options which is a Windows PC and/or an Android phone. Whilst in many cases it is not done intentionally, to many windows PC and android phone owners it's percieved as 'I have money and can afford nice things, you don't'.
Human nature is what it is and as such there will always be Apple haters.
Another reason in my opinion which again comes down to the snobbery attitude is the amount of Apple owners who like to persistantly gloat to others about being the owner of an Apple device based on the reasoni that Apple devices are expensive and thus not everyone who wants on can afford one so they have to go for the cheaper options which is a Windows PC and/or an Android phone. Whilst in many cases it is not done intentionally, to many windows PC and android phone owners it's percieved as 'I have money and can afford nice things, you don't'.
Human nature is what it is and as such there will always be Apple haters.
Windows has going through two worse transitions on that front so I’m not sure what the problem is. Firstly they broke the driver model with Vista. Then they broke the architectural model with windows 11. ARM based windows computers are becoming a reality now and no vendors offer drivers for that platform for anything other than latest devices. And then only if you’re lucky.
What Apple did was introduce AirPrint which is an architecture and platform neutral printing and scanning API which means you don’t need drivers at all.
Really your problem here is with the printer and scanner vendors, not apple. Apple gave them the tools which they ignored and persisted with their windows specific driver model or abandoned their hardware.
I've never understood the word 'hate' in this context. If something doesn't suit your needs, don't use it. If you don't like the way Apple conducts its business, use Windows.
Personally, I love Apple products. For me, they're worth the additional cost. Does that make me a fanboy? I don't think so because I never tell anyone else what to buy/use. I've made 2 attempts at having Android phones. The 1st time, I went from the iPhone 3GS to a Samsung S3. Absolutely hated it and sold it on after just 2 months and got an iPhone 4S. Then a colleague persuaded me to give Android another try and, although I had it for the full 2 year contract, I couldn't wait to get back to the iPhone and got a 76S. Now you couldn't pay me to go back to Android.
Personally, I love Apple products. For me, they're worth the additional cost. Does that make me a fanboy? I don't think so because I never tell anyone else what to buy/use. I've made 2 attempts at having Android phones. The 1st time, I went from the iPhone 3GS to a Samsung S3. Absolutely hated it and sold it on after just 2 months and got an iPhone 4S. Then a colleague persuaded me to give Android another try and, although I had it for the full 2 year contract, I couldn't wait to get back to the iPhone and got a 76S. Now you couldn't pay me to go back to Android.
I think people take it all to personal on both sides of the fence. Apple people get way to connected to their computers and there is a lot of superiority complex going on. Apple does some amazing things and makes some amazing products, I am writing this on a M1 Max, love the computer. What I hate is what Apple has become in terms of reparability and upgradability. Lots of defenders on this which I never understand. Why would anyone be happy with less options? Also the Mac OS is way more guilty of causing issues with software that worked in previous versions but for some reason no longer works in the next. This goes beyond the switch to a 64 bit only OS. Something Apple does in the OS changes things so drastically that an application will not work. Be it printer drivers or software. On the Windows side, I can install ancient software from Windows NT in Windows 11 ARM on my MacBook Pro. These compatibility issues are a lot less prevalent in Windows where things for the most part just work. Apple as a company as well comes across very self righteous these days as well, I always cringe when I watch an event, so much back padding and extolling how they are making the world a better place... for those who can afford their product. I use both Mac and Windows, have a ton of different Macs from the latest M1 Max 14" MacBook Pro to my work Machine a maxed out 5K iMac, to older 27" iMac's, and a few Mac Mini's on top of various iPads and iPhones. I also have PC's though not as many, that I have built from scratch and run amazingly well and continue to run amazingly well without needing a clean install of Windows. Both have great positives and both have serious negatives. Apple people are just as guilty at complaining and hating Windows for no reason as well. I do think the sheeple fits much better in the Apple world though, especially when you look at the watch bands and air tag cases people pay hundreds, if not thousands for.
Exactly. We are talking about brands that make and sell electronics. Why does it matter?? They make money if you do or don’t buy their products. At the end of the day, it comes down to “do I want to waste my time arguing about a phone?” So many better things to do than try and belittle someone about a silly little preference in their smart phone choice.
Okay, my turn:
First, my brother is a Russell.
iPad/Galaxy Tab A:
I use my tablet as my go to device, ever since surgery made it necessary.
Can hold the Tab A in one hand in portrait mode, the dominate mode.
Can't with iPad.
I use the Internet for everything and iPad OS browsers are inferior to me.
Getting my photos from Amazon Photos to Android or iPad OS was a chore, but a bigger chore with iPad OS.
It was not an Apple Store. Don't think Apple had their own stores in 1999. It was a store I could walk to, just not with an iMac under my arm. While under warranty, then said the product was fine and it must be me. Only a little true.
I like Amazon. I'm not the only one who has bad things to say about their tablets. You get less than what you pay for. I've purchased other products from Amazon, it really is A to Z, with no troubles.
I did have to get new OS DVDs for my 2007 iMac. The discs were for a mini and not my iMac. They also were the OS originally shipped with the iMac, Tiger. I needed the new Leopard DVDs and iLife '08. The Leopard DVD I received was upgrade only. That experience consumed all the talk time from my 90 day warranty. I've never purchased Apple Care and probably never will.
My HP AIO was a cheap plastic box with a cheap low powered AMD CPU. I just didn't know that.
The fan would come on in 5 minutes after booting and would never stop.
My family and I could write a book about HP issues.
Okay, I don't expect my 2007 iMac to be up to snuff. Then again, there are others out there still using PPC Macs. Go figure. In my opinion, all computers should last 10 years. A 2014 mini can still run the current OS and the 2012 can run Catalina. Oh yeah, Catalina with iTunes the app. The best product for personal music management, and no longer on the Mac. I could almost hate Apple for that.
Yes, the HP Chromebase looks good. The 90 degree portrait mode is a very good thing if someone wants to use the Google Play Store and some apps that are portrait only.
An Apple TV should be able to download Apple Music and Video purchases for offline viewing. 64GB is a lot of storage for a streaming device. An Apple TV should be as capable as an iPad.
Did I cover everything?
I live in California. In the SF Bay Area, any home worth owning is over a million. We are in a serious drought, have an inferior electricity provider, and fire risk. People should hate California, but they don't. Why is that? So to hate Apple is the same foolish thing. I have a tablet because I've already evacuated fire in 2017 and 2019. Need something I can take with me. The 2017 fire came within feet of taking my home.
iPad versus Android. If I didn't have a computer, or didn't have Windows, Android can function as a stand alone better. If I had Linux for example, no iTunes or iCloud. In my opinion, the iPad cannot stand alone all the time.
My Dell AIO can't upgrade to Windows 11. That's at least 3.5 years until EOL.
Still, Microsoft screwed the pooch. I would purchase a mini before another Windows machine.
The HP Chromebase is still on my radar.
ChromeUnboxed has more than one review of it.
EDIT: My Dell AIO has both HDMI in and out. I could attach a mini to my Dell and be off to the races. I sometimes miss Mac OS. I would not miss Windows for a second.
With the M1 mini, having a monitor that can rotate 90 would make iPad apps work better when portrait is the only option.
First, my brother is a Russell.
iPad/Galaxy Tab A:
I use my tablet as my go to device, ever since surgery made it necessary.
Can hold the Tab A in one hand in portrait mode, the dominate mode.
Can't with iPad.
I use the Internet for everything and iPad OS browsers are inferior to me.
Getting my photos from Amazon Photos to Android or iPad OS was a chore, but a bigger chore with iPad OS.
It was not an Apple Store. Don't think Apple had their own stores in 1999. It was a store I could walk to, just not with an iMac under my arm. While under warranty, then said the product was fine and it must be me. Only a little true.
I like Amazon. I'm not the only one who has bad things to say about their tablets. You get less than what you pay for. I've purchased other products from Amazon, it really is A to Z, with no troubles.
I did have to get new OS DVDs for my 2007 iMac. The discs were for a mini and not my iMac. They also were the OS originally shipped with the iMac, Tiger. I needed the new Leopard DVDs and iLife '08. The Leopard DVD I received was upgrade only. That experience consumed all the talk time from my 90 day warranty. I've never purchased Apple Care and probably never will.
My HP AIO was a cheap plastic box with a cheap low powered AMD CPU. I just didn't know that.
The fan would come on in 5 minutes after booting and would never stop.
My family and I could write a book about HP issues.
Okay, I don't expect my 2007 iMac to be up to snuff. Then again, there are others out there still using PPC Macs. Go figure. In my opinion, all computers should last 10 years. A 2014 mini can still run the current OS and the 2012 can run Catalina. Oh yeah, Catalina with iTunes the app. The best product for personal music management, and no longer on the Mac. I could almost hate Apple for that.
Yes, the HP Chromebase looks good. The 90 degree portrait mode is a very good thing if someone wants to use the Google Play Store and some apps that are portrait only.
An Apple TV should be able to download Apple Music and Video purchases for offline viewing. 64GB is a lot of storage for a streaming device. An Apple TV should be as capable as an iPad.
Did I cover everything?
I live in California. In the SF Bay Area, any home worth owning is over a million. We are in a serious drought, have an inferior electricity provider, and fire risk. People should hate California, but they don't. Why is that? So to hate Apple is the same foolish thing. I have a tablet because I've already evacuated fire in 2017 and 2019. Need something I can take with me. The 2017 fire came within feet of taking my home.
iPad versus Android. If I didn't have a computer, or didn't have Windows, Android can function as a stand alone better. If I had Linux for example, no iTunes or iCloud. In my opinion, the iPad cannot stand alone all the time.
My Dell AIO can't upgrade to Windows 11. That's at least 3.5 years until EOL.
Still, Microsoft screwed the pooch. I would purchase a mini before another Windows machine.
The HP Chromebase is still on my radar.
ChromeUnboxed has more than one review of it.
EDIT: My Dell AIO has both HDMI in and out. I could attach a mini to my Dell and be off to the races. I sometimes miss Mac OS. I would not miss Windows for a second.
With the M1 mini, having a monitor that can rotate 90 would make iPad apps work better when portrait is the only option.
Last edited:
I'm lost. What do you mean by break everything? Apple departed from 32-bit a long time ago, long before your 2018 Mac mini. Your mini will last another decade. So the manufactures are to blame, not Apple.
My old 2007 iMac upgraded to a 64-bit OS years ago, when it was still named after cats.
Out of the loop with BootCamp. You have an Intel Mac. Install Windows. EOL for Windows 10 is October 2025.
You might be able to install Windows 11 on your mini.
I never really understood throwing shade at other peoples tech. Use what works for you. No product is meant for all use cases. If manufacturers don't write OS X drivers for their printers, you can either not use their printers or use a different PC/OS combination. If you aren't happy with the life cycle that a company has for their products (What, they don't continue support for two decades!), then buy from a manufacturer that does. Apple is not afraid to move forward and mercilessly drop technologies it sees as moving to end of life (Flash, 32-bit, etc.). You don't see the value in a given company's products, then find value elsewhere.
Yea, probably.
Seriously, what manufacturer is going to tell its customers that its hardware will stop working after a certain date with a specific OS that is only 10% of the market. None.
Mojave came pre-installed on my Mini and it runs 32-bit applications and plugins just fine. Good to see your patched 2007 iMac can run a new OS, but if all you're doing is web browsing and word processing you're missing the point on how expensive external hardware requires drivers and whatnot to work.
Don't have access to them, then you have a very expensive paperweight. Its quite convenient that this big company like Microsoft has an OS out that can drive something big like my "yet-to-be-retired" Epson 7800.
There are lots of reasons for people to hate Apple, and I think a bunch of them are good reasons. Apple purposely cripples their hardware making it impossible to replace components or repair. They also do stupid things like making a Studio display that does not have a removable power cable... well it is removable but you need a special tool to remove it. Why?. I watch the Linus Tech channel on youtube now and then, they review the latest Apple products as well and think they are very fair when praising and very right when criticizing. Apple does a lot of anti consumer things, but for the most part it gets ignored as people are lost in the Apple glow. I do like a lot of their products, no denying they make some great machines, but that should not excuse them for other practices that are so obviously anti consumer it is not funny.
I'm firm believer that most young couples and idepent girls/guy need is training! When I was in Army (22 years) as SATCOM person after the Army in Went to No Such Agency and then to Army Intelligence configuring routers and switches for guys in Iraq and Afghanistan it amazed me how unintelligent those people are really ignorant over there! we had one unit in Irag the came under Motor attack attack and killed one of them! then another unit was brought next to them to get on the satellite and couldn't find the satellite and were complaining from this Lieutenant that that other unit people were picking on them, I was laughing on inside!
There’s a difference between hardware not working and no longer having access to the latest OS.
My 2007 iMac was not patched. It is able to install up to Mac OS 10.11 (El Capitan).
Yeah, I looked up the 7800. I don’t even own a printer. I can’t imagine having to stop using it do to driver updates. I noticed plenty of drivers for it.
As a Mac user, you should know the drill. It is probably still true, Apple will support the current OS and the previous two.
Mojave is not supported anymore. You can’t fault Apple, or anyone else.
Update your OS. Then you have every right to be upset.
If you had a 2018 Windows 10 computer, moving to Windows 11 might not be possible. The 2014 mini can run the current OS. The 2012 can install Catalina.
You’re very lucky if you’ve never used Windows 8/8.1.
My 2015 Dell came with 8.1. Microsoft wanted one OS for both desktop and mobile. We know Steve Jobs would never allow one OS for Mac and iPad/iPhone.
A touch screen Mac was a never thing too.
I’ve said before that I hate a company. Pretty heavy word.
Apple/Microsoft/Comcast. They are all loathe worthy sometimes.
“Purposely cripples their hardware” or “increasing efficiency by minimizing distance between components”?
Never read or hear of folk whining about how they can’t expand their iPhone or Samsung Note tablet.
Just because computers traditionally had this functionality doesn‘t mean it they have to continue to do so.
Smartphones traditionally used to have physical keyboards until Apple came out with the iPhone.
Meanwhile, Many more manufacturers are locking down things like RAM - e.g. the Microsoft Surface, and again not seeing massive outcry about that.
Microsoft have made it hard for older machines to use Windows 11 - again the amount of complaining about that here seems to be somewhat low.
But when Apple do something - raise the pitchforks! There’s a lynching to be had!
Do people hate Apple, or the control freaks who run it?
Tim Cook is once again after the side loaders.
I have Apple and Samsung tablets.
In my early tablet days, I installed the Google Play Store on my Amazon tablet, because their store was weak.
Install 4 APKs and you're done.
A funny thing ... There are HP printers that only use THEIR consumables. Not exactly new either.
TiggrToo: Just look up to my post about Windows 11.
I think we need a new Apple CEO.
Wait for it ... Linus Torvalds!
Tim Cook is once again after the side loaders.
I have Apple and Samsung tablets.
In my early tablet days, I installed the Google Play Store on my Amazon tablet, because their store was weak.
Install 4 APKs and you're done.
A funny thing ... There are HP printers that only use THEIR consumables. Not exactly new either.
TiggrToo: Just look up to my post about Windows 11.
I think we need a new Apple CEO.
Wait for it ... Linus Torvalds!
I have been using Macs since 1987 or so (my Dad brought a Macintosh SE from work back then), and have lived through many "Mac better than PC!" and "PC better than Mac!" times.. lol.
I think part of the reason why there was so much hatred against Apple in the 90s, was that (some of ...) the Apple use-base were sitting on a high horse before 1995, and (rightfully 😁) gloating about:
- System 5 (with MultiFinder!) versus DOS.
- MS Word (yep, WYSIWYG) vs. WordPerfect 5.1
- System 7 (32 bits) versus Windows 3.11
- .. etc
Mac OS classic (8 / 9) was really showing it's age (Mac OS X in its infancy), and Apple Computers were still expensive even when the performance was getting worse relative to the Wintel PeeCees.
So, the "high-horse" attitude of the Macintosh users was now something which backfired.
It turned into hatred.