Touchscreen Macs. Not a matter of "if" but "when"?

[APlotdevice]

The demand will only come when peoples none-touchscreen PC devices become outdated. In a world where many people still use XP with no problems, adoption to any new tech that MS introduce will be slow and gradual.

With Apple it is a little different since they make their devices obsolete a lot sooner and have much better marketing. Things probably won't kick off properly until Windows 9 or even 10 (providing Microsoft are going to release new versions of Windows on shorter intervals).

It could be a long time still for those computers to become obsolete. Those old systems remain perfectly adequate for the basic tasks that most folks use them for. And I don't think the computer manufacturers are going to want to wait for sales of these devices to pick up.

Also planned obsolescence could seriously backfire for Microsoft. Arguably the biggest reason for Window's continued popularity is its long support cycle. People trust that new and old applications will continue to work for many years.

 

[smoledman]

It could be a long time still for those computers to become obsolete. Those old systems remain perfectly adequate for the basic tasks that most folks use them for. And I don't think the computer manufacturers are going to want to wait for sales of these devices to pick up.

Also planned obsolescence could seriously backfire for Microsoft. Arguably the biggest reason for Window's continued popularity is its long support cycle. People trust that new and old applications will continue to work for many years.

Planned obsolescence works if your next gen product is more drool-worthy than the previous. See iPhone, iPad, iMac, etc... Surface has this potential.

 

[roadbloc]

Planned obsolescence works if your next gen product is more drool-worthy than the previous. See iPhone, iPad, iMac, etc... Surface has this potential.

Planned obsolescence and lack of backwards compatibility is the one thing that has always annoyed me with Apple products. I thought it total madness that my XP box could run iTunes 10.x with little issues (it was a bit sluggish I guess, but certainly usable) and my newer iMac G4 couldn't run past version 9.x.

No massive deal, but with lots of little stupid incompatibilities that made no sense due to planned obsolescence, my wonderful iMac was demoted to sit in storage. Sure, I could buy a new one for £1,000+, but when I have perfectly good Windows boxes still churning away for much longer at a much cheaper price, why should I?

I hope Microsoft continue their current support regime.

 

[adildacoolset]

Touchscreens are a gimmick. Name me one thing you can do on a touchscreen mac that cannot be achieved by a multitouch trackpad, which has a pinpoint cursor.

Aside from the stupidity of clawing at your desktop like a cat, or the strain it causes in your arms , there is also a question of what on earth it does that a multitouch trackpad cannot do.

Really, because of the strain in your hands, and the fingerprints that they cause, and the increased costs, and the over-simplified UI they'll have to accommodate; touchscreen on PCs is gimmicky, overhyped, and inconvenient.

 

[adildacoolset]

The iMac would have to have a screen sloping at an almost horizontal angle to avoid the well-known effects of "gorilla arm".
Holding your arm outstretched to point at stuff all day is immensely tiring, as people found out when the first gen touchscreens came out in the 80s.

Here's an experiment, try to sit on a chair and stare directly down onto the table for 30 minutes. There's also strain in the neck that staring down causes.

And no, if it's tilted, I don't want to have to reach out to navigate my content. Have you ever seen Apple use a type of navigation system on their products, where the purpose of that navigation has been documented to produce strain after normal use? No. They don't add things for the sake of adding things, but rather they add things because they have a use.

Like when the iPhone launched with a touch scree, Steve Jobs made it clear on the advantages that the touchscreen has on a phone. But quite frankly, the advantages he mentioned do not apply to devices like laptops.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Touchscreens are a gimmick. Name me one thing you can do on a touchscreen mac that cannot be achieved by a multitouch trackpad, which has a pinpoint cursor.

I think that's a limiting mindset. It's not that it adds a feature that can't be accomplished otherwise, but it's just a matter of adding more flexibility and versatility.

Sitting here at work, with my body approximately 3 feet away from my monitors (almost exactly my arm length), I can't really imagine a situation where I want to touch the screen to interact with it. Now many if it were touch screen my workflow would drastically change to accomodate a desire to touch the screen, but lets say I decide not to, because the specific functions required at work are more conducive to a small, precise pointer. That's fair enough. And I would certainly have some of the gorilla arm if I attempted to touch the screen often from this distance.

However, when I'm at home with my laptop (which is... believe it or not... on the top of my lap) the screen is far, far closer to me. In fact, when my hands rest on the keyboard they are merely a few inches from the screen. The effort to lift up my hands to touch the screen are minimal, and approximately equivalent to the action of moving my hand down to the trackpad. So if there's no benefit, why bother? Well there is benefit. It is the next generation of interaction from arrow keys to mouse and mouse to touch. Instead of needing to find the pointer on the screen, move it over to the desired location, and click.. all I need to do is touch it. Instantaneous.

I'm not even remotely suggesting to get rid of the trackpad (notice the arrow keys are still around). It is just a supplemental way to interact. I think all three input methods will coexist for some time.

 

[adildacoolset]

I think that's a limiting mindset. It's not that it adds a feature that can't be accomplished otherwise, but it's just a matter of adding more flexibility and versatility.

Sitting here at work, with my body approximately 3 feet away from my monitors (almost exactly my arm length), I can't really imagine a situation where I want to touch the screen to interact with it. Now many if it were touch screen my workflow would drastically change to accomodate a desire to touch the screen, but lets say I decide not to, because the specific functions required at work are more conducive to a small, precise pointer. That's fair enough. And I would certainly have some of the gorilla arm if I attempted to touch the screen often from this distance.

However, when I'm at home with my laptop (which is... believe it or not... on the top of my lap) the screen is far, far closer to me. In fact, when my hands rest on the keyboard they are merely a few inches from the screen. The effort to lift up my hands to touch the screen are minimal, and approximately equivalent to the action of moving my hand down to the trackpad. So if there's no benefit, why bother? Well there is benefit. It is the next generation of interaction from arrow keys to mouse and mouse to touch. Instead of needing to find the pointer on the screen, move it over to the desired location, and click.. all I need to do is touch it. Instantaneous.

I'm not even remotely suggesting to get rid of the trackpad (notice the arrow keys are still around). It is just a supplemental way to interact. I think all three input methods will coexist for some time.

The problem is that in order to have a decent PC which works with a touchscreen, it needs to have a UI tailored for touch otherwise it'll yet again increase the nuisance. And if it does get a touch UI, it'll suck when working with a trackpad.

So either it'd be for Apple to pull off a widows 8 (we know how bad that went), or to continue like normal. You said that resting your fingers down won't make that much effort. But how about removing that extra effort, and keep the tigers rested on the keyboard. Regardless of whether its a laptop or desktop, gorilla arm is a very real thing. Just save that hassle and keep your arm rested.

As for the "instantaneous" issue, you'll still have to move your finger around the screen. That still requires effort, even more than just gliding one finger across a trackpad. You'll still have to tap it, like you do on a trackpad. Launchpad already makes it very simple for opening apps when you want them.

 

[Renzatic]

A pic of one of their patents...

The patented a Cintiq?

 

[dove]

Please explain to me how a three finger drag is complicated. And so what if you have to enable it… it's not that difficult.

And yes, a vertical two finger swipe will move a webpage up or down, or a PDF file page to page etc.

Are you intentionally being dense? I didn't say a three finger drag by itself is complicated. I said moving your fingers around while not interrupting the drag gesture is relatively complicated—compared to using the touch screen.

Here's your own description of that gesture:

If you use 3 finger drag, you simply move the pointer with one finger to the thing you want to drag, then move it with 3 fingers. If you run out of mouse pad, you just remove and reposition your 3 fingers and carry on dragging.

 

[Spikeywan]

That was mine. but seriously, how is moving anything around with 3 fingers complicated? I use touch screen pcs at work, and they feel Stone Age compared to my rMBP.

 

[Drew017]

Are you intentionally being dense? I didn't say a three finger drag by itself is complicated. I said moving your fingers around while not interrupting the drag gesture is relatively complicated—compared to using the touch screen.

Here's your own description of that gesture:

No I didn't mean to be and I think I understand what you mean now

I still think though that a vertical touchscreen is bad ergonomics. Also, wouldn't it just make the Mac's screen thicker? Why would Apple add thickness to their products when they usually just want to make them smaller?

 

[Liquorpuki]

The driving force behind touchscreen laptops is tablet-laptop convergence. Right now nobody is pushing for convergence except MS/OEM's but if they're successful, it'll become a staple. If they do, Apple's gonna be scrambling because they're in a really poor position to implement this feature. Give it til the end of the year

 

[tailhook]

What you guys don't seem to understand is it isn't just going to be laptops, but workstation monitors that go touch. Make no mistake they'll come up with a way for Monitors to shift to a more ergonomic position than the traditional vertical. Most touchscreen monitors currently sold usually can go from upright to almost fully horizontal depending on how you want to use it.

The tipping point, though, is when traditional software applications start to get redesigned to fully take advantage of the ability to use touch and pen in conjunction with the traditional keyboard and mouse. Thats coming for Windows my friends, if Apple doesn't keep up... they're screwed. Oh, and a dirty little secret? All of those redesigned applications(the ones that run off the desktop) for touch and pen will work with Windows 7 by simply hooking up a touchscreen and a pen. Touchscreen and pen support has been a staple of the OS for a while and any use of it is backwards compatible. Oh, and a lot of the code built for the desktop applications is reusable in the run-time apps, its just a different interface.

And when i say touch and screen support for new programs, I do not mean simply allowing you to touch controls and access stuff as you do now. Of course Keyboard and Mouse is tiptop for that because thats what it was designed for. But a lot of the major functions of any tool in a traditional application environment are often built in a manner that is proper for a mouse and keyboard, but horrid for a touchscreen(as it never had to account for it). You should really have a good look at some of the interfaces people make for windows apps or even ipad apps, that style can be directly carried over into larger traditional applications that run off the desktop in Windows.

Thats the future.

And Apple will not be along for the redesign if they don't get their act in gear. You'll be relegated to the age-old... we'll port for Mac... uh.. whenever we get around to it.

 

[tailhook]

The driving force behind touchscreen laptops is tablet-laptop convergence. Right now nobody is pushing for convergence except MS/OEM's but if they're successful, it'll become a staple. If they do, Apple's gonna be scrambling because they're in a really poor position to implement this feature. Give it til the end of the year

Its worse than that, if they do catch on.. as traditional applications get redesigned, the adoption will start to blow back into desktop equipment with people buying their next monitor as a touchscreen(especially as that segment of electronics starts to mature).

If you have a Surface Pro that can connect to any monitor, why can't you touch that screen and use a pen? The 4-way input IS going to be the new standard and not just for laptops, but also workstations and for full-applications built for either. The longer Apple resists, the harder it will be for them to catch up.

 

[sdilley14]

I personally don't see touch screen Macs coming out any time soon.

1. There doesn't seem to be an overwhelming desire for a laptop or desktop with touchscreen capability. When was the last time someone fired up an iMac or a MBP and said, "ahhh...this mouse/trackpad! If only I could touch this screen instead!"

Touching a screen that sits at close to a 90 degree angle isn't a comfortable experience. Angling the screen back to make it more comfortable to touch reduces visibility. Seems like a lose-lose proposition.

They have had the ability to produce these for a long time and chose not to. I think if they were going to come out with this, they would have been the first to market with it and would have come out with it long ago. I don't see Apple being the type of company to be late to the party and come out with something like this just to "keep up" with competing Windows machines.

2. Just because they 'can' make these machines, doesn't mean they 'should'. What problem does it solve? What true benefit does it offer over any other current Apple laptop/desktop? What are you going to be able to do with these machines that you can't with an iMac, iPad, or MBP? What is the point of developing a more expensive piece of hardware with added components and more possiblity of failure if it doesn't fit a need a solve any particular problem?

3. For lack of a better way to put it...touch screen laptops and consumer desktops just seem gimmicky. A nice parlor trick, but what is it really "helping" me to do better? I guess that goes back to my last point a bit.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Touching a screen that sits at close to a 90 degree angle isn't a comfortable experience. Angling the screen back to make it more comfortable to touch reduces visibility. Seems like a lose-lose proposition.

For general UI navigation, touch actually makes things a lot easier. After getting used to Win8 web navigation is way easier using swipes on a screen than aiming a mouse pointer at icons. To the point I catch myself sitting at my girl's iMac with the urge to swipe the screen left and right. Same with maps. I can use my fingers to pinch, zoom, scroll a map and tap on POI's. Or I can use a mouse/trackpad to drag and click zoom in/zoom out icons, which take twice as long.

They have had the ability to produce these for a long time and chose not to. I think if they were going to come out with this, they would have been the first to market with it and would have come out with it long ago. I don't see Apple being the type of company to be late to the party and come out with something like this just to "keep up" with competing Windows machines.

They didn't produce these for 2 reasons. 1 - touchscreens are expensive. 2 - No desktop OS existed that required touch before Windows 8.

Apple would not be first to market with something like this. The driver for a touchscreen enabled monitor is tablet/desktop convergence. This is MS's vision of the future. Apple's vision is for mobile and desktop to remain functionally separate.

 

[Spikeywan]

It's like voice recognition. That was going to be the way forward at one point. It's now technically possible, and very accurate, but nobody really uses it seriously because you feel like a left breast. And... Could you imagine an office full of people all talking at their computers! It's bad enough with people using phones.

 

[phillipduran]

The poor sales of Windows 8 and the Surface show that touch based desktop OS's aren't going to make it mainstream. It can work for some such as point of sale or kiosks, but the typical desktop user appears to be rejecting this technology.

 

[Tankmaze]

It's like voice recognition. That was going to be the way forward at one point. It's now technically possible, and very accurate, but nobody really uses it seriously because you feel like a left breast. And... Could you imagine an office full of people all talking at their computers! It's bad enough with people using phones.

I agree, its sort of like a novelty idea. I don't use siri as much as I got it the first time, same thing with widgets in OS X.

tablets is really the only practical use of touchscreen imo.

 

[Convert 2 Touch]

C2T Glass Free iMac Touch Screen Device

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Connection is via a Plug N Play USB which automatically sync's within 10 seconds. On applied users can control the iMac with the same gestures used on an iPad or track pad. Excellent for POS, Design, Gaming or for users who want the versatility of keyboard, mouse and touch.

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[Silvereel]

1. I feel drag and drop can sometimes be a pain using a trackpad or a mouse. Particularly when you run out of space on your trackpad or your desk. I think it might be easier to do complex drag and drop operations using a touchscreen.

I haven't had good experiences with touchscreens on the desktop, to be honest. I can't speak for laptops, but it could be more at home there.

With this particular example, though, I'm thinking a higher DPI mouse, or even a higher sensitivity setting, would solve this. I don't have to move my mouse more than two inches to navigate from one end of my 27' iMac to the other. It's very precise, but you'll adjust quickly

2. Sometimes when I do a lot of reading, I lose track of the mouse pointer. If you're doing a lot of reading and only need to press 'next page' every now and then, I think that might be easier to do using a touchscreen. It would eliminate the step where you frantically wiggle the pointer, hoping it will catch your eye.

The space bar will take care of this, unless you mean literally moving to another web page. There's always the touchpad and reader mode, though!

 

[Plutonius]

I still would not get / use one.

 

[Spikeywan]

Nor me. I still don't understand the need for a touchscreen on a Mac, when the track pad is so unbelievably awesome. Plus, who wants greasy fingerprints all over their retina screen?

 

[KaraH]

Despite what Steve Jobs said 3 years ago about touchscreens being terrible on vertical displays, I think it is absolutely inevitable that Macs will sooner or later be getting touchscreens. After all Steve has been been wrong/lied before (iPod video, 7" tablet, larger iPhone screen, etc.).

Touchscreens are becoming the norm. This is the case with iPad and other tablets. This is the case with Windows 8 laptops, all-in-ones, and convertables. Hell even Chrome OS seems to be going all-in with touchscreen. By the end of the year the marketplace will be completely flooded with them all. The "phantom touchscreen" effect, where you feel like (or sometimes actually do) reach out to touch your screen out of second nature, will only continue to intensify. Mac's will start to fall behind on perception, because all other top class laptops will have it.

Then of course just look at the iOSification of OS X. Sure it's not nearly as touch friendly as iOS or Windows 8 metro, but there certainly are a lot of touchable elements. I don't think touch will be the only input method, but it suppliments the trackpad well.

Do you agree that it's just inevitable at this point? When do you expect it? It obviously won't happen till Apple introduces a much more touch friendly interface. I don't expect it in 10.9, but possibly next year? Maybe that's what Jony is working on...

Ow! Steve was right!

My wrist screamed in pain at just the THOUGHT of spending all day reaching towards a 27" vertical display! No, it is not just resistance to something new, it is idiotic from an ergonomics standpoint. Here I thought nothing could be worse than a mouse ...

Okay, so what if you would go with a horizontal display? I see several problems offhand:

1) People are used to computing desktops being vertical. While horizontal may seem more normal you have to overcome the image rather than doing it by fiat.

2) I do not know about anyone else, but any desk I have ever seen quickly becomes covered in papers, books, and what not. A flat surface will attract stuff so that is something to look at as well.

3) A horizontal screen will get dirty fast. Hands (and arms) will naturally rest on it, transferring oil, and dust will fall on it. To say nothing of coffee spills and the like.

4) If you think the ergonomics of reaching to a vertical screen are bad for your wrist think of them for your neck looking down the whole day!

Basically, I see tons of disadvantages. No real potential advantages other than it being something new. The reason they do for phones and pads is because they make sense there: you are looking downish already (and can adjust the angle as needed), are not using it for the whole day, and it is a smaller area that will not fit a keyboard.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Ow! Steve was right!

My wrist screamed in pain at just the THOUGHT of spending all day reaching towards a 27" vertical display! No, it is not just resistance to something new, it is idiotic from an ergonomics standpoint. Here I thought nothing could be worse than a mouse ...

Here is the tragic flaw with your argument... you treat it as an all or nothing situation. Did the mouse completely replace the arrow keys? No. They compliment each other. There are times when it makes sense to use each. The touch interface will simply be another alternative.