TRIM Support no longer 'easy' in Yosemite

[mikeboss]

Not really. Once you started mucking with the device id (even if you could change it) you'd be locked out of firmware updates. The RIGHT way to solve the problem is for Apple to stop this kext BS. They know what the after market is for components that are designed for or work correctly in a Mac. I really can't understand their attitude on this. I have two Solo x2s with Samsung SSDs in my 5,1 Mac Pro and a Transcend SSD in my MBA.

Lou

I couldn't agree more! Apple should give up this silly restriction.

Apple has a long history of locking stuff out of their system(s). I remember "hacking" the HD SC Setup of System 7 so it will format any SCSI harddrive instead of only the supported ones...

 

[crjackson2134]

I don't mind the kext signing so much really. What I mind is that they basically blacklist all non-Apple components. They could easily leave kext signing in place but allow the driver to search for Trim support, and activate it if present.

I think it's because of arrogance and greed. They could easily keep their security preferences in tact, and still let things like Trim work on 3rd party drives. You would think that since they are themselves using Samsung SSDs in their own systems, they would be kind enough to let all suitable Samsungs work with active Trim.

 

[thefredelement]

I think finding a way to dynamically add the installed SSDs to the OK list would be the best bet.

How possible is that? I have no idea what so ever.

I don't see Apple opening it up via kext or via opening it up the TRIM support to all, less and less of their devices will come with user replaceable storage, they seem to like those PCIe blades now anyway.

 

[Cindori]

I wonder how Apple has the list of OK SSDs, and how it stores them. If it's hidden in some plain text way somewhere, I'd be really hopeful that Cindori can work out a way to get a new version of Trim Enabler to add an SSD to that list

It's simply a if (modelString contains "APPLE SSD") return true embedded in the code of the kernel extension. Trim Enabler already works by modifying this, but that is the problem with Yosemite, since it does not allow modified kexts.

If not, maybe he can figure out a way to flash the ID of the card, or at least it's representation to the system, without having to get his hands dirty with disabling kext signing.

Already tried flashing modified firmware long ago and it works, but is not a viable solution as
a) every firmware and SSD controller is different, good luck making a universal tool to decompress and flash all of them
b) as flowrider points out, it can break support with manufacturers software

I've also tried creating injector kexts, which successfully replaces the ioreg variables to fool the system you are using an APPLE SSD. But it does not affect the behaviour of the Trim driver, which probably does internal queries anyway. Also, making a driver to fool Apple's drivers is also pretty much a dead end, since I would not get a certificate from Apple for a kext with that purpose.

Trust me, I've really exhausted all possible solutions on this. Dived deep into all the related kernel code etc. There really is no way to get Trim in a better way unless you write a new AHCI driver stack from scratch, which really is a monumental task and probably would end up hurting storage stability.

 

[thefredelement]

It's simply a if (modelString contains "APPLE SSD") return true embedded in the code of the kernel extension. Trim Enabler already works by modifying this, but that is the problem with Yosemite, since it does not allow modified kexts.




Already tried flashing modified firmware long ago and it works, but is not a viable solution as
a) every firmware and SSD controller is different, good luck making a universal tool to decompress and flash all of them
b) as flowrider points out, it can break support with manufacturers software

I've also tried creating injector kexts, which successfully replaces the ioreg variables to fool the system you are using an APPLE SSD. But it does not affect the behaviour of the Trim driver, which probably does internal queries anyway. Also, making a driver to fool Apple's drivers is also pretty much a dead end, since I would not get a certificate from Apple for a kext with that purpose.

Trust me, I've really exhausted all possible solutions on this. Dived deep into all the related kernel code etc. There really is no way to get Trim in a better way unless you write a new AHCI driver stack from scratch, which really is a monumental task and probably would end up hurting storage stability.

Got ya, and thanks for replying - I have no doubt you went through all of this when 10.10 came out, I'm just trying to think of different things as well.

If you need someone to try and read through code or test things out feel free to reach out. As I have after market SSDs in all my Macs and have always used your stuff, I'd be stoked to.

 

[pertusis1]

This is really sad, though not entirely unexpected from Apple. I think we all live with the possibility that Apple will backhand older products at any time.

I was having all kinds of fun updating my dream computer (5,1) in all sorts of ways. A while back, I added a xp941, which has worked perfectly. I use Cindori's software to enable trim, just to keep it simple.

Not being aware of the 10.10 problem with trim, I installed it, and basically it produced an error that required a complete rebuilding of the drive from a backup (not a big deal, but annoying). So basically, I'm back to 10.9 and stumped on whether it is going to be possible to upgrade to 10.10 with my current drive.

I am not particularly technically savvy. Am I correct that I have two choices if I want to use 10.10 with my 5,1?

1) get an apple branded SSD for $500
2) get a spinning drive

Or is there something I'm missing? Is it possible to update to 10.10 without trim?

I am not willing to completely disable a potentially important safety feature.

Thanks for any advice on this.

 

[rjtiedeman]

Can you trim a SSD manually?

Since automatic background trimming of SSDs is no longer possible is there a stand alone application that can be used on a weekly basis to clean house?

Similar to cache cleaners.

 

[crjackson2134]

Since automatic background trimming of SSDs is no longer possible is there a stand alone application that can be used on a weekly basis to clean house?

Similar to cache cleaners.

If you don't mind installing Mavericks on a spare drive, go back and read posts #86 & #99. In fact, read through this thread and you'll have a much better handle on all of it.

 

[flowrider]

I guess I am living dangerously, I am running TRIM Enabler on both my Mac Pro and my MBA with Yosemite. So far, no bad results But, I'm sure time will tell.

Lou

 

[Badagri]

This is really sad, though not entirely unexpected from Apple. I think we all live with the possibility that Apple will backhand older products at any time.

I was having all kinds of fun updating my dream computer (5,1) in all sorts of ways. A while back, I added a xp941, which has worked perfectly. I use Cindori's software to enable trim, just to keep it simple.

Not being aware of the 10.10 problem with trim, I installed it, and basically it produced an error that required a complete rebuilding of the drive from a backup (not a big deal, but annoying). So basically, I'm back to 10.9 and stumped on whether it is going to be possible to upgrade to 10.10 with my current drive.

I am not particularly technically savvy. Am I correct that I have two choices if I want to use 10.10 with my 5,1?

1) get an apple branded SSD for $500
2) get a spinning drive

Or is there something I'm missing? Is it possible to update to 10.10 without trim?

I am not willing to completely disable a potentially important safety feature.

Thanks for any advice on this.

I wouldn't be surprised the way it's going, the next OS release will only support their latest Mac's. Legit Mac's will end up Hackintosh's. Ironic. To some extent some are now with Yosemite.

 

[Cindori]

If you need someone to try and read through code or test things out feel free to reach out. As I have after market SSDs in all my Macs and have always used your stuff, I'd be stoked to.

I am working on a brand new disk utility software for which I will reach out for Beta tester in a few weeks.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

I am working on a brand new disk utility software for which I will reach out for Beta tester in a few weeks.

Keep up the good works for us Cindori! CHEERS!!!

 

[macthefork]

...Am I correct that I have two choices if I want to use 10.10 with my 5,1?

1) get an apple branded SSD for $500
2) get a spinning drive

Or is there something I'm missing? Is it possible to update to 10.10 without trim?

I am not willing to completely disable a potentially important safety feature.

Thanks for any advice on this.

The third choice is to simply run the SSD without TRIM in Yosemite. This, in time, will likely result in a slower drive. My choice is to simply refuse Yosemite until this is rectified.

 

[VirtualRain]

The third choice is to simply run the SSD without TRIM in Yosemite. This, in time, will likely result in a slower drive. My choice is to simply refuse Yosemite until this is rectified.

That's a bit irrational. Why not just use the Trim Enabler utility? Although this disables Kernal extension security, it's something that was not present in previous versions of OS X so it's no less secure than Macericks.

 

[DeltaMac]

That's a bit irrational. Why not just use the Trim Enabler utility? Although this disables Kernal extension security, it's something that was not present in previous versions of OS X so it's no less secure than Macericks.

Unfortunately - as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, Yosemite doesn't much like changing that kernel extension. SO, if you need to to a PRAM reset, or some other fairly normal maintenance processes, then at next boot, Yosemite remembers that it's supposed to block that extension (reenables that security), requiring a Yosemite reinstall (at least, that has happened to me, and the short terminal commands to set that right do not work for me, and the reinstall is apparently necessary then)
Must be some method to enable trim, without disturbing the kext signing, eh?
So, probably something that Apple has to provide. Here's hoping...

 

[Mr. Zarniwoop]

requiring a Yosemite reinstall (at least, that has happened to me, and the short terminal commands to set that right do not work for me, and the reinstall is apparently necessary then)

If that happens again, check out Cindori's FAQ and support for using Trim Enabler in OS X Yosemite, particularly the "Recovering from stop sign on boot screen" section. Reinstall is absolutely not necessary, but certainly an option if that's easier for you.

Also an option is to undo all changes by Trim Enabler, also in the FAQ at the bottom: "Reversing any changes by Trim Enabler"

 

[macthefork]

That's a bit irrational. Why not just use the Trim Enabler utility? Although this disables Kernal extension security, it's something that was not present in previous versions of OS X so it's no less secure than Macericks.

The instability it introduces by messing with the kernel extension settings (mentioned many times in this thread) and the fact that any Apple update could also cause a frozen computer means that I cannot take the chance of a unstable computer with the work that I do. Maintaining a stable production computer environment is not irrational as far as I'm concerned.

 

[thefredelement]

The instability it introduces by messing with the kernel extension settings (mentioned many times in this thread) and the fact that any Apple update could also cause a frozen computer means that I cannot take the chance of a unstable computer with the work that I do. Maintaining a stable production computer environment is not irrational as far as I'm concerned.

But if you need to enable trim you're off the beaten Apple path anyway, I don't see how a kernel extension security setting can make a system less stable unless a user installed a bad extension after.

My two Macs have been fine with trim enabler.

 

[VirtualRain]

Unfortunately - as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread, Yosemite doesn't much like changing that kernel extension. SO, if you need to to a PRAM reset, or some other fairly normal maintenance processes, then at next boot, Yosemite remembers that it's supposed to block that extension (reenables that security), requiring a Yosemite reinstall (at least, that has happened to me, and the short terminal commands to set that right do not work for me, and the reinstall is apparently necessary then)
Must be some method to enable trim, without disturbing the kext signing, eh?
So, probably something that Apple has to provide. Here's hoping...

The instability it introduces by messing with the kernel extension settings (mentioned many times in this thread) and the fact that any Apple update could also cause a frozen computer means that I cannot take the chance of a unstable computer with the work that I do. Maintaining a stable production computer environment is not irrational as far as I'm concerned.

Ok, fair enough, but I think it's overstating it to say it's unstable or that it's going to necessitate a Yosemite re-install. I just went back through this thread and I could only find one person that had an issue and they were able to reverse it using the recovery partition with instructions provided by Cindori. Since then, a new line has been added to the boot.plist that seems to survive PRAM resets.

There's no excuse for Apple not supporting TRIM on any SSD, but until they do, this is a great work-around.

 

[Badagri]

There's no excuse for Apple not supporting TRIM on any SSD, but until they do, this is a great work-around.

I just cannot see it. Why wouldn't it have been in from first release? There's no intention of rectifying it.

 

[VirtualRain]

I just cannot see it. Why wouldn't it have been in from first release? There's no intention of rectifying it.

You might be right. It's less and less relevant as time goes on anyway. The Mac Mini is pretty much the only shipping Apple product with a reasonably accessible standard drive. They'll probably get around to supporting other SSDs just about the time the entire line is switched over to proprietary drives.

 

[MDangerous]

My experiences...

1. I didn't know about this issue until after I already installed Yosemite. I installed on the day after Yosemite was released.
2. I installed Yosemite over Mavericks with Trim Enabler on. The upgrade went fine. However, Trim Enabler was turned off by upgrade the itself.
3. Once I was back up in Yosemite, I simply turned Trim Enabler back on. I did not have any stability issues.
4. Then, I saw the posts here regarding Trim and turned Trim Enabler off.

OK, here's the thing, why are we making threads about workarounds? Why aren't we all sending Apple feedback requesting them to enable Trim for third-party SSDs? Stop saying what Apple won't do. You, We are the customer. It does not hurt Apple to enable Trim for third-party drives. Apple no longer sells Apple branded SSDs in the Apple Store and a lot of our Mac Pros are out of warranty, so it does not affect Apple at all to do so. And don't say it's because Apple wants us to buy new hardware because who buys a new Mac just to get Trim support?

So, again, lets stop giving Apple a pass and tell them what we want as their customers. Send feedback, now! http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

And keep sending feedback until Apple does what is needed.

 

[Badagri]

You might be right. It's less and less relevant as time goes on anyway. The Mac Mini is pretty much the only shipping Apple product with a reasonably accessible standard drive. They'll probably get around to supporting other SSDs just about the time the entire line is switched over to proprietary drives.

After seeing this, I hope, hope they just screwed it up… Or Apple is losing their way without him.

My experiences...

1. I didn't know about this issue until after I already installed Yosemite. I installed on the day after Yosemite was released.
2. I installed Yosemite over Mavericks with Trim Enabler on. The upgrade went fine. However, Trim Enabler was turned off by upgrade the itself.
3. Once I was back up in Yosemite, I simply turned Trim Enabler back on. I did not have any stability issues.
4. Then, I saw the posts here regarding Trim and turned Trim Enabler off.

OK, here's the thing, why are we making threads about workarounds? Why aren't we all sending Apple feedback requesting them to enable Trim for third-party SSDs? Stop saying what Apple won't do. You, We are the customer. It does not hurt Apple to enable Trim for third-party drives. Apple no longer sells Apple branded SSDs in the Apple Store and a lot of our Mac Pros are out of warranty, so it does not affect Apple at all to do so. And don't say it's because Apple wants us to buy new hardware because who buys a new Mac just to get Trim support?

So, again, lets stop giving Apple a pass and tell them what we want as their customers. Send feedback, now! http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

And keep sending feedback until Apple does what is needed.

No, you don't. They want you to buy a new machine for a new OS. Same for the next.

 

[BurgDog]

You might be right. It's less and less relevant as time goes on anyway. The Mac Mini is pretty much the only shipping Apple product with a reasonably accessible standard drive. They'll probably get around to supporting other SSDs just about the time the entire line is switched over to proprietary drives.

Macs with Thunderbolt support SSDs connected via thunderbolt. Thunderbolt does support TRIM unlike USB3 which doesn't. I have a 256GB internal SSD on my Mac Pro and need more SSD storage. My choices so far are eBay for a larger internal drive or get some external SSD that supports TRIM that OSX won't allow to work. I would seriously like a 1TB Samsung 850 pro to put in a thunderbolt enclosure and really wish Apple would enable TRIM to work with it.

 

[flowrider]

In the current line of Macs, the Mini is not the only Mac that allows third party SSDs. As was just mentioned, you can replace the SSD in a nMP with one from the Chinese seller on eBay (an Apple SSD that supports TRIM). And both Transcend and OWC are working on SSDs that will work in the nMP, MBA, and nMBP. I'm not familiar with the SSD in an iMac, but that's probably upgradable too. And as has been stated all current shipping Macs have TB. It's in Apple's best interest to enable TRIM for all third party devices. Their attitude on this issue is really very pecular

There is a third party SSD supplier that supplies conventionally packaged 2.5" SSDs (Anglebird) that identifies itself in a Mac as an Apple device so TRIM works natively. It's odd that Apple has not taken action against them.

http://www.angelbird.com/en/prod/ssd-wrk-for-mac-pro-937/

I know of no one has has on of these however.

This whole TRIM thing has not yet worked itself out. I'm sure there's more to come. But, who the heck knows what the heck that is?

Lou