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iPhone 17 Pro Unimpressed with 17 series camera quality
DeftwillP
macrumors 6502a
Specs on your dob? Looks like a huge primary cell. My xt8 has never given me very good pics.
ToddH
macrumors 68040
I have a 5” f/10 Celestron cassegrain / spotting scope. I bought it on Amazon a couple of years ago.
Did you use. Ight mode for 30”?
ToddH
macrumors 68040
miemo
macrumors member
Well that was quick, basically just had to wait over a weekend to get a new device in (shipped from completely different part of Europe vs where the old one was sent to, so clearly not the same unit).
Have had the new 17 Pro unit for a couple of days, haven't had a chance for a thorough review but at quick glance seems to be quite a bit better than my previous unit on the same bookshelf test shots – but still not quite on the level of 14 Pro in ProRAWs, esp. if the ISO gets raised from 100 or so. And HEICs still look better than ProRAWs in terms of details. And I still occasionally get photos that are completely unsharp, looking like a misaligned focusing.
Unless anything major pops up later with more detailed testing, I'll probably stick with this one and just lower my expectations, blaiming the overall era of ens***tification we're living in – and keep on carrying a proper camera with me more often.
ToddH
macrumors 68040
I started using the No Fusion app for HEIF & ProRaw photos. So much better than the default camera app. However I still use the default camera at time because I like photographic Styles when shooting HEIC shots. I believe I posted a YouTube video link in this thread for No Fusion. If you haven’t seen it, I recommend watching. The app is great.
Anyway I hope your replacement iPhone is better. I’m getting to where I’m buying the new iPhone three months after release date as I feel quality control is better. Manufacturing is slower and more precise. I look forward to reading your review of the replacement.
The same photographer Alex Artimage made a new in depth video of new fusion,
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kamikazeeMC
macrumors 6502a
Nice, answered my questions, what shooting modes and level of processing can be disabled. I can hide buttons I don't use as I just want a clean app where I'm shooting in auto (not a fan of touch screen ergonomics), easy exposure comp compared to stock app. I would use HEIF+ only with recipe, no sharpness, mid latitude, some grain and glow.
This defiantly makes the overall package of an iPhone more appealing to me. I dislike carrying stuff, went from a DSLR, to a mirrorless Fuji to a Ricoh GR. I don't have high requirements of a camera, for a while I was thinking phones were getting good enough for me, then came excessive post processing (nor do I want to edit RAWs). I also like the iPhone will brave weather elements better.
This defiantly makes the overall package of an iPhone more appealing to me. I dislike carrying stuff, went from a DSLR, to a mirrorless Fuji to a Ricoh GR. I don't have high requirements of a camera, for a while I was thinking phones were getting good enough for me, then came excessive post processing (nor do I want to edit RAWs). I also like the iPhone will brave weather elements better.
miemo
macrumors member
Have been planning to give NoFusion a spin for a while now, Alex's earlier video raised my interest and I did also watch the recent comprehensive walkthrough he made. Will be trialing it with my new unit now that we finally start to have some sunlight after the long dark winter…
After using the 17 pro for almost 6 months, I’ve found:
- it’s best at stills
- image quality falls off a cliff in most semi-dark interior environments
- noise reduction turns things to mush and has introduced artefacts for me
- it excels in bright environments
- freezing motion is only possible in very well lit environments because the phone aggressively reduces the shutter speed in low light (because of the fixed aperture) and increases it to compensate for bright environments (thus allowing motion to be ‘frozen’)
- night mode kicks in a lot and introduces motion blur (I know to turn this off but most casual users have no concept of shutter speed and leave it on, leading to blur. My cousin took a dslr on holiday and tried to get shots of him at the northern lights, and it used a 20 second shutter speed… The background was good, but he looked like a ghost haha)
-24mp on my 14 year old apsc looks better than the 48mp mode on my iPhone
- why no 24mp proraw? 🙁
- mixed opinions on proraw. It’s not as good as raw. But true raw is limited to 12mp and reveals a lot of the limitations of the tiny sensor
Most of the tests in the videos I have seen are in bright environments and are stills (very little motion in the pictures). If you’re inside and taking pictures of subjects who like to move (animals, kids, etc), the images will most likely be blurry (motion blur)
Interested to hear how other people are finding it.
- it’s best at stills
- image quality falls off a cliff in most semi-dark interior environments
- noise reduction turns things to mush and has introduced artefacts for me
- it excels in bright environments
- freezing motion is only possible in very well lit environments because the phone aggressively reduces the shutter speed in low light (because of the fixed aperture) and increases it to compensate for bright environments (thus allowing motion to be ‘frozen’)
- night mode kicks in a lot and introduces motion blur (I know to turn this off but most casual users have no concept of shutter speed and leave it on, leading to blur. My cousin took a dslr on holiday and tried to get shots of him at the northern lights, and it used a 20 second shutter speed… The background was good, but he looked like a ghost haha)
-24mp on my 14 year old apsc looks better than the 48mp mode on my iPhone
- why no 24mp proraw? 🙁
- mixed opinions on proraw. It’s not as good as raw. But true raw is limited to 12mp and reveals a lot of the limitations of the tiny sensor
Most of the tests in the videos I have seen are in bright environments and are stills (very little motion in the pictures). If you’re inside and taking pictures of subjects who like to move (animals, kids, etc), the images will most likely be blurry (motion blur)
Interested to hear how other people are finding it.
miemo
macrumors member
100% agree with these. And this is also with my new, better unit.
My 14 Pro was much more consistent in low light, it didn't suddenly fall into mush like the 17 Pro does very quickly even in low triple-digit ISOs. And weirdly at least for me it seems that HEIFs actually keep the details better in low light than ProRAW, used to be absolutely the opposite with the 14 Pro.
In bright sunlight things look pretty great throughout the cameras, but then again that has been the case with much less expensive phones for quite some time already, so the bar is not very high there.
ToddH
macrumors 68040
Didn’t the 14 pro have a CMOS sensor instead of a Bayer? If so, that would explain a lot for IQ
ToddH
macrumors 68040
Excellent feedback.. I use No Fusion constantly. The Fuji Nostalgia Negative (NN) and Kodak portra 400 (K1) are my favorites. K1 works best on foliage, NN I use for a slight retro look for indoor photography as I really like the look of it. I don’t use my Sony A7RV much anymore, all iPhone now. The iPhone is just too convenient and fun to use.
I am also not really impressed with the 17 P M main camera. Made a few shots of a test chart to compare it with my old 13 P M and the photos from the older phone were sharper.
Comparison
The thread is in german but I think the screenshots speak for themselves.
Comparison
The thread is in german but I think the screenshots speak for themselves.
Ok, my rose tinted glasses have finally worn out like a paint that is chipping off some 17 Pro models.
Initially I’ve started this thread after watching numerous reviews of the phone. And I saw a common pattern: soft focus, blurred images. I didn’t even own the phone at the moment and I know it was a bad move to talk about the camera you don’t own yet.
But in fact because of silly accident few green lines appeared on my old 11 Pro display I upgraded somewhere in February. Instead of fixing it I decided that “it’s time” and finally bought 17 Pro.
I was testing camera a lot and all the modes. At first everything seemed good and fun. But then I realized my photos are not as sharp either. I blamed processing (and it is a big part in the equation too). In pure RAW mode and even in ProRes RAW I could clearly see that phone doesn’t actually focus into ∞ as it is supposed to. This is an issue on main 24mm camera, telephoto seems to be “ok”.
This is both hardware and software issue and Apple does nothing to test quality of their lenses.
Their post processing also is to blame. HDR look, gain maps, noise reduction all make iPhone images soft and cheap.
Yesterday I had found video comparison of old Canon point-and-shoot with smaller sensor and 17 Pro. In my opinion, 17 Pro totally lost in terms of landscapes. Lens design doesn’t make it any favor either - natural lens bokeh is pure trash, and it has been like that for many iPhone generations already.
It is a sad state of iPhone and I honestly dunno what to do. On Android I can at least download Open Camera, enable Camera API 2, disable all processing and noise reduction and finally make PHOTOS that qualify as PHOTOS, not AI generated slop that iPhone camera makes.
ProRAW is useless too. I was testing it a lot. Yes it can remove sharpening, but it doesn’t make textures any better. Also I don’t really get why this camera is labeled as 48MP since it is not even a default mode and also there is almost no detail increase compared to 12 mp. And yes, these photos are still not croppable. I mean you can crop them but result will look nasty, not like something you would expect from nearly 1’ sensor camera
Initially I’ve started this thread after watching numerous reviews of the phone. And I saw a common pattern: soft focus, blurred images. I didn’t even own the phone at the moment and I know it was a bad move to talk about the camera you don’t own yet.
But in fact because of silly accident few green lines appeared on my old 11 Pro display I upgraded somewhere in February. Instead of fixing it I decided that “it’s time” and finally bought 17 Pro.
I was testing camera a lot and all the modes. At first everything seemed good and fun. But then I realized my photos are not as sharp either. I blamed processing (and it is a big part in the equation too). In pure RAW mode and even in ProRes RAW I could clearly see that phone doesn’t actually focus into ∞ as it is supposed to. This is an issue on main 24mm camera, telephoto seems to be “ok”.
This is both hardware and software issue and Apple does nothing to test quality of their lenses.
Their post processing also is to blame. HDR look, gain maps, noise reduction all make iPhone images soft and cheap.
Yesterday I had found video comparison of old Canon point-and-shoot with smaller sensor and 17 Pro. In my opinion, 17 Pro totally lost in terms of landscapes. Lens design doesn’t make it any favor either - natural lens bokeh is pure trash, and it has been like that for many iPhone generations already.
It is a sad state of iPhone and I honestly dunno what to do. On Android I can at least download Open Camera, enable Camera API 2, disable all processing and noise reduction and finally make PHOTOS that qualify as PHOTOS, not AI generated slop that iPhone camera makes.
ProRAW is useless too. I was testing it a lot. Yes it can remove sharpening, but it doesn’t make textures any better. Also I don’t really get why this camera is labeled as 48MP since it is not even a default mode and also there is almost no detail increase compared to 12 mp. And yes, these photos are still not croppable. I mean you can crop them but result will look nasty, not like something you would expect from nearly 1’ sensor camera
I switched to a small compact camera that I try to carry in my pocket and only use my phone as a secondary camera. Now I don't have to upgrade my phone every few years. It's a shame that phones have eaten away the small compact P&S market though. I don't see it ever bouncing back.
ToddH
macrumors 68040
A great post, I guess I missed this one when you posted it. All true and accurate statements regarding the iphone camera. I have the 17 pro max (upgraded from the 16 pro max) not sure why. I suppose because of the 48mp 4x camera. As you mentioned, the newness of the iphone camera, heavy processing, & lousy crop options, is why i stopped using the 17 pro max.
I bought a couple of the Samsung S26 ultra phones because of the 200mp camera. The 50mp 5x is awesome, even the 13mm ultrawide camera on the S26Ultra is much brighteran & clearer than apples 13mm. I shoot RAW a lot & the expert raw software on the Samsung is amazing. Unlike the iphone, I can control the cameras manually just like a DSLR. I can get true long exposures up to 30 seconds on the expert raw app (comes with the phone) Instead of having the iPhone stack 1 second exposures multiple times to reach 30 seconds. Actually, there is no way to control the camera like this on the iphone at all, I'm stuck with using it the way apple wants me to use it. Only third party apps will allow this , but if you adjust the shutter speed or the ISO on that third party app , you no longer get 48 megapixels, it drops to twelve.
I feel you're pain along with everybody else and that is why I pretty much have switched to android. I always upgrade my phones because of camera quality and hardware upgrades, but I'm really tired of apple's low ambition and not putting pro features on the iPhone pro series to help us Professional photographers have more control of the camera.
Samsung cameras are way better than iphone cameras. In fact, I think apple will be using Samsung cameras on their next iPhone 18 pro series. That's the rumor and they will just be controlled with apple's iOS software. Even if true, I doubt that they will give us full manual control like I can use with my Samsung using expert raw. So I think I'm done with iPhone, sticking with Samsung.
Samsung top flagship has the shutter lag fundamental problem for many years and many generations, as long as you take a photo of a moving object like pet or kid, it has more than 50% chance come out as a blur image. iPhone and Pixel are much better for this. This is not acceptable except you only take photos for stable objects.
ToddH
macrumors 68040
Yeah I’ve seen it. It doesn’t bother me. I’ll randomly catch moving objects like a ceiling fan where the blades look bent, haven’t seen the issue with vehicles, i don't have pets or kids. What I get as a photo is still better than the iPhone in terms of resolution and clarity. HEIC on tye S26 ultra at 200mp is still much better than on the iphone. I've been using the iphone since the 3Gs (2009) & mostly switching to Samsung has been a nice change. I can't speak for everyone, but for my needs, the switch has been great.
Using expert raw to capture landscape photos, portraits, & still life images at 200mp is amazing. I’ll set my ISO to 50 and adjust the shutter & exposure to get a DSLR quality image. I wish I had that same control on the iphone. I’ve only seen shutter lag on moving ceiling fan blades, otherwise I never seen it capturing anything else in my photography. I began my photography journey in 1988 just out of high school using film, I'm glad digital photography is here I don't have to mess with film anymore.
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That's because P&S cameras don't offer image quality that's better than iPhone IMHO. But it's a no brainer for having that "focused" experience in taking pictures and a dedicated memory to store them just for overall image quality, iPhone 17 air remains supreme IMHO (subjective)
my iPhone 17 air pretty much gives off dedicated camera quality without any needing of editing whatsoever
Full resolution:
If we only compare the full auto mode, is 17 pro series camera a meaningful upgrade or even downgrade comparing to 16 to 14? How about comparing to latest Samsung and Pixel?
AmberGilbertson
macrumors newbie
I'm still waiting for mine to arrive. I'll definitely be paying more attention to the camera after reading everyone's experiences here.
I very much regret NOT getting S26 ultra! But I am thinking about making a compromise and getting regular s26 as a 2nd phone (or even better: making iPhone my 2nd phone). I know it has no 200MP sensor but it might be cheaper and still serve my needs: shoot nice images and be able to fully control aspects that I need to control.
The only reason I sold my s10+ back in the days was that it had curved edges and back then I wanted it to serve as a functional phone mostly but not as a camera, curved edges were very uncomfortable to type messages vs literally any other normal phone. But the camera, it was good enough! Especially in RAW mode. I can imagine it made a leap to infinity with newest models.
It is a shame iPhone can only do 1s real exposures, with such a sensor and processing power it should be able to do bulb, and not just normal 30s that every point-and-shoot camera could do back in the days, even my GoPro with tiny sensor can do 30s real exposures (which I use a lot for night photos and lightning photography).
Other issues include the fact that they don’t even allow control over true image preview: everything via the API. I.e. all third party apps show the wrong, enhanced and AI-processed preview, it is basically like having no viewfinder at all. As well as processing is unnatural and very weird.
Apple indeed is copypasting same boring processing and sensors ever since iPhone 14 Pro, they say that sensor size is increased every year but in practice I don’t see the advantage on new sensor, and I doubt there will be any with iPhone 18 Pro and variable aperture.
For me the pro camera is indeed one that gives me normal M mode where I can take perfect jpeg, look at it and say “well, no editing needed”.
The fact that to make a good photo these days I need to waste time in Lightroom and still look at photo and be like “it is acceptable but I won’t be looking at this photo again” - that’s a bad sign. Feels like people who work at Apple these days have no visual taste whatsoever, they don’t understand how photo must look, that people would choose natural photos 9/10 vs this overprocessed HDR tone mapped madness.
Sure Samsung also does this, but from what I’ve seen there are so many options to both tone it down, tune it down or simply shoot natural: Pro mode, Expert RAW, Open Camera, Camera Assistant. I can’t imagine Apple ever caring for pro users as much as Samsung does. Also they use their in-house camera sensors and it seems like those are currently best-in-class in terms of processing.
I would say rolling shutter and motion blur is not much of a problem at all. This is how cameras work. If one wants to make everything in focus it needs high ISO and fast aperture, no other way. Samsungs prefer it to be natural - you moved camera, you got blur.
Shooting kids and pets was always the way to become master at photography. Now it was dumbed down by algorithms. I think it is much better to “slow everyone down” and “catch it” (it is possible in Pro mode) than make camera processor choose “best capture” by taking 20 photos after a single shutter click. Phone would make it bad anyway.
As for the shutter lag, iPhones have a lot of it these days… I can’t shoot lightning with the phone, even in burst, while old 6 Plus can do it with no issues. Also the problem is that when I take a photo, this is not the exact moment that I wanted to take but the other version, and this is even worse than having shutter lag. Burst mode is also very slow and capped to 12MP JPEG files. Can’t imagine Samsung being worse, it should be good in Pro mode
I’ve never experienced film tbh but I started with Nikon D3100. I still have it and tbh I’ve not seen a better camera yet. No processing at all, this camera was frowned upon back in 2011 by hobbyists because it had a bad auto mode and poorly managed white balance on its own. But I mean this is what it can do in manual, which I shoot ever since. “Only” 14 megapixels, still better than iPhone’s fake portrait mode and 48😂
I kind of decided to downgrade and went back to shooting with iPhone 6 Plus. Not only this phone is much lighter than my 206 grams brick that they call iPhone 17 Pro, it also has something magnificent in its automatic 8MP JPEG shots
For some reason, latest and greatest 17 Pro just can’t shoot photos like these no matter how hard I try, how I change settings or how much I grind in Lightroom. Phone not only takes joy out of photography, it sucks life out of photos. Era of 5, 5s and 6 was so far best era of iPhone photography. There was no processing and no need for it, moreover - all those images needed 0 edits to look good.
I wish there was more backlash against computational photography because it is technically AI photography, and AI sucks at it
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