UPS for Mac Pro? Apple tech suggests not

[nanofrog]

My shoddy UPS died, so I'm looking to another one.

I run my Mac Pro as a server, but the power does go out. Usually when it does, it is for no more than 10 minutes or so.

The point is I want a UPS that sleeps the Mac, while keeping my cable modem and router alive; then when the power resumes, it wakes the Mac Pro.

Basically when I take extended leave (3 months time) from my Mac Pro, I need 100% uptime as there is no way I can go and boot it up on-site. For good reason, everything will be unplugged and my power hungry GPU will be stripped out for a lesser model along with all unnecessary expansion cards removed.

Will the APC SUA1500 provide me this functionality? Will this one be enough: http://tinyurl.com/2f29vjz ?

Most likely I'll have a Drobo connected as well, but I when the Mac Pro sleeps that will probably sleep too.

You can usually set the power management features in the OS (set the sleep and shut down time), but it won't resume from sleep once the power is back on (I don't recall the ability to do this in any OS). Either it loses power (battery is exhausted before power is restored = shutdown if you set it, or a backup generator kicks in, if it's installed). But you will have to return the system to operational manually. Just set the sleep and shutdown times later than the typical power outage, and within the battery limits according to the load (no LED display on this model, so if you've a Kill-A-Watt, this would be handy to asses the load, and calculate the approx. run time).

As per the SUA1500, it will be fine. The MP won't run 980W, so you'll have more run time (I'd figure ~ 25min or so on new batteries, assuming the draw is 450W or so). So long as the battery isn't exhausted prior to power restoration, your cable modem and router will remain powered. Just leave off anything else to give you as much time as possible (system, monitor, modem, router, and Drobo).

Hope this helps.

 

[Sun Baked]

Will the APC SUA1500 provide me this functionality? Will this one be enough: http://tinyurl.com/2f29vjz ?

There are a few APC reconditioning outfits, just look for a used one, you should see that same UPS show for around 250 as

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-1500tlv-p-28.html <-- with an IBM logo

or

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html <-- regular APC logo

Edit: have never used these guys, so no nuttin bout em. There are a few others I saw when looking for my battery pack. Look through the posts above and PM the person saying they've bought reconditioned to see where they got em.

 

[ThisAintJoe]

There are a few APC reconditioning outfits, just look for a used one, you should see that same UPS show for around 250 as

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-1500tlv-p-28.html <-- with an IBM logo

or

http://excessups.com/smartups-1500-sua1500-p-38.html <-- regular APC logo

Edit: have never used these guys, so no nuttin bout em. There are a few others I saw when looking for my battery pack. Look through the posts above and PM the person saying they've bought reconditioned to see where they got em.

The 1500's are definitely the way to go. We have several of the refurbished ones in our office and they work great. My boss was giving us a hard time and wanted a new unit, we bought him the new SMT1500. Within 2 days he wanted the old 1500 back because of the fan noise. The new version of the 1500 has a 2 speed fan that cycles every 5 seconds. Perfect for a noisy data center but horrible in an office under a desk!

 

[nanofrog]

The 1500's are definitely the way to go. We have several of the refurbished ones in our office and they work great. My boss was giving us a hard time and wanted a new unit, we bought him the new SMT1500. Within 2 days he wanted the old 1500 back because of the fan noise. The new version of the 1500 has a 2 speed fan that cycles every 5 seconds. Perfect for a noisy data center but horrible in an office under a desk!

The specs list 45 dbA for noise @ 1.0m, which is rather loud for a non-rackmount version.

 

[Kevin808]

Hi all,

I know this thread is about a million years old as tech goes but I want to get a UPS and have some questions and I hoped some of you could help. I have read the whole thread and learned a lot, there is a lot of good info, thank you for that.


I'm looking at getting a APC APC Smart-UPS C 1500VA LCD 120V(Pure SINE):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842301289


First off here is what I will hook up to a UPS and be powering:

- 2010 Mac Pro 6-core 3.33
- nVidia GTX780 powered by a Drive Bay PSU 450watts (6 and 8 pin)
- OWC PCIE Card SSD Hard Drive
- Four 1-TB drives
- 27" Cinema Display
- 22" Dell Display

Perifs:
- Bose Speaker system w/sub
- 2 TB WD My Book
- 1 Turntable (Never On)
- External Sound Card (USB Powered)
- MIDI interface (USB Powered)


I have all of this plugged into one enormous power strip which is plugged into a Belkin Wemo Insight that gives me a power consumption report... It draws about 280 watts at idle and 580W while rendering Unigine's Valley benchmark in "Ultra" mode on the 27".

The reason I started looking into these (Besides protecting my investment and wanting to save files in the event of a black/brown out) is because I just changed the PSU in my 27" Mac Cinema Display. These are know to die. A lot. I picked up a new one from DVWarehouse and installed it. at first it didn't turn on and I was like "Crap, I must have F'ed something up", then after some wire finagling I got it working. And I was like "I am AWESOME!" Really I'm just glad I didn't electrocute myself. Fast forward 3 days later and the monitor stars blinking out again.

Anyway, I started thinking about the ridiculous draw of power this setup is drinking, and a comment someone on another forum made about the capacitors going bad in the PSU of the 27" CD, and how when they start to go they don't build up enough power to trip the display on. My PSU is new so I doubt that's the problem but maybe everything else is robbing enough power during power up so the 27" CD is not getting enough juice to "trip on" and thought - "I wonder if a PSU will help with the power draw by providing more or "Boosting" it"?

So that is my question... Will a proper PSU also help boost power that the system is requiring being that it has battery back up, and (I'm guessing) capacitors?

Thanks in advance for any advice / information / education.

 

[hfg]

I use that APC "SmartUPS 1500" with a very similar 2012 Mac Pro 12-core 3.33GHz and dual monitors and have been using it without problems of any kind. It has been running for years with a previous 2008 Mac Pro as well. Do not put your printers, especially laser jet, on your UPS. Highly recommended!

I had a similar issue with the power brick on a 30" cinema display ... purchased a new replacement which did the same thing. I discovered that disconnecting the USB and FireWire cables from the monitor to the computer eliminated the problem with both new and old power supplies. After a bit of fooling around ... plugging/unplugging, power on/off of computer and monitor, PRAM reset of computer, and cursing ... the monitor with USB/FW cables plugged into the computer returned to working and has ever since. I am not sure why any of this occurred, but I am still running on the old original power supply.

Good luck ...
-howard

 

[Gav Mack]

I'm afraid Apple techs like many others are a lottery, the majority when you discuss something that isn't in their flowchart or manual talk out of their behind. Of course a UPS is a great idea even more so if you have poor mains or drops.

Your current one isn't large enough by a long way, but a used APC 1500 smart UPS breeze block with USB connection like others have suggested can be bought for peanuts on eBay second hand. Batteries cheap to swap out, standard Yausa NP7-12 cells.

I have two here - one for cheese-grater and screen, the other for my server, drive box, router, cable modem and 24 port switch.

Edit - damn it why do I never check the dates on threads!

 

[adam9c1]

I have bought two units from excess. Work great!

One is for oMP and one monitor, the other for my Windows box, router, modem, and switch.

 

[Kevin808]

Thanks for the responses. I have read about removing USB components to make the PSU on the monitor behave, tried that with the fist PSU, no luck. When the second blinked out, same thing, took them all out didn't really fix the problem. It's actually working now, but I HATE the unpredictability of it. Since my video card doesn't boot with an EFI screen (Grey apple) I never know if the computer is fried or if it's the damn monitor. This happened a lot when I was upgrading the machines chip, firmware, etc. so I always thought I bricked it but it was just the damn monitor. I'm hoping getting a UPS will somehow help with the monitors PSU issue.

Any thoughts on it boosting power to the setup curing the monitor PSU hiccup?

 

[wildmac]

What about the:

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...ini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

I'm looking for brownout and surge protection... I don't need extended time to shut down for file saves that that sort. I just need to protect the system from the initial blast.

 

[Kevin808]

What about the:

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...ini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

Damn, that looks like a good solution. 900 watts and SINE wave too. Is that a reputable brand? APC cost almost twice as much, but people say it's well built.

----------

Ya, I guess if you read earlier in the thread people are down on CyberPower for being cheap. One guy took one apart and inspected it, said the internals were junk. Another guy said his friend had one and it sparked and caught fire. I think this is the type of component you bite the bullet and pay the extra $ for quality.

 

[wildmac]

Damn, that looks like a good solution. 900 watts and SINE wave too. Is that a reputable brand? APC cost almost twice as much, but people say it's well built.

----------

Ya, I guess if you read earlier in the thread people are down on CyberPower for being cheap. One guy took one apart and inspected it, said the internals were junk. Another guy said his friend had one and it sparked and caught fire. I think this is the type of component you bite the bullet and pay the extra $ for quality.

If that's the case, I'd just go with a quality surge protector for now.. I can't afford $600 for a UPS.

 

[Kevin808]

If that's the case, I'd just go with a quality surge protector for now.. I can't afford $600 for a UPS.

Ya, I can't really either, But I did find a good late model APC for around $350.

Bump for thoughts on a UPS's effect on my Monitor's PSU power-up issue.

 

[VirtualRain]

Timely resurrection of this thread.

I'm looking at this Tripp Lite, primarily because I want the ECO feature that turns off some of my peripherals (Audio Equipment) when the computer goes to sleep. The battery backup is a nice to have that I'm guessing would allow the Mac Pro and a monitor to keep running for a short time to save work and shutdown if the power fails.

I know it's not the best nor is it a true-sine-wave type UPS, but is there any harm in using this?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ZMESXE...TF8&colid=3U0TODJ4J6PTB&coliid=I108375MTOE0UL

 

[ActionableMango]

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...ini-Tower/dp/B00429N19W/ref=cm_cr_dp_asin_lnk

A Mac-specific review from that link:

Finally, a serious issue that will only be of interest to some Mac users. CyberPower doesn't supply separate software for the Mac (as they do for Windows), but they claim the unit is compatible with the Mac's built-in UPS software (which appears in the Energy Saver panel of the System Preferences if the Mac detects a UPS connected by USB). The CyberPower website claims the unit's firmware (build-in software) is Mac-compatible, and even shows screenshots of it running on a Mac. What they don't mention is that the screenshots are for a version of the Mac OS (Leopard/10.5) that was discontinued about two years ago, and that they apparently had never tested this specific UPS model with the current (at that time) version of the OS, Snow Leopard (10.6). The tech guy admitted that the screenshots are outdated, but more than a month later, I see they still haven't changed them.

Their driver may work with some of their models in Snow Leopard (I wouldn't know), but *this* model is NOT software-compatible with Snow Leopard. The Mac handshakes with the unit when you hook it up with USB, but the communication between the two after that is generally non-existent no matter what happens, or else crazily erratic. During the real blackout I experienced, plus circuit-breaker tests I did later with the (non-defective) replacement unit, it was clear that the Mac had no idea if there was an outage, thinks the battery charge is always "120 percent" (!) no matter what, but conversely might occasionally decide there's an electrical problem (when there isn't) and begin the countdown to shutdown for no reason. Or, conversely, after a real blackout and despite power having been restored, it might continue the countdown to shutdown. Usually the Mac simply does nothing in response to the unit. In fact, the software is worse than useless, and any Snow Leopard user should not connect the USB cable. (I haven't tested it in Lion.)

 

[wildmac]

Timely resurrection of this thread.

I'm looking at this Tripp Lite, primarily because I want the ECO feature that turns off some of my peripherals (Audio Equipment) when the computer goes to sleep. The battery backup is a nice to have that I'm guessing would allow the Mac Pro and a monitor to keep running for a short time to save work and shutdown if the power fails.

I know it's not the best nor is it a true-sine-wave type UPS, but is there any harm in using this?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004ZMESXE...TF8&colid=3U0TODJ4J6PTB&coliid=I108375MTOE0UL

Seems decent. No real issues in the reviews.

Side note.. a LOT of complaints in comments on the APC products about trying to get damage claims and replacements. APC can guarantee all they want, but if you have to fight with a call center in the Phillipines, that's a problem, and those claims ring hollow.

 

[Kevin808]

I know it's not the best nor is it a true-sine-wave type UPS, but is there any harm in using this?

Ya I was looking at those first too, then I fell down the rabbit hole. Damn you rabbit hole!

Well... The synapses of the thread it that anything under 1200VA (about 650 watts?) is not enough for a mac pro + Screen + Perifs. Especially on boot up when the power draw spikes. Plus non pure SINE wave can apparently damage your CPU's PSU, maybe more. I don't know much about electrical so I listen to others who know more than myself, and am quoting others from this thread.

Honestly, I don't think it would do much harm to have it, certainly no more harm than a power surge or a sudden loss of power that corrupts your data. What I am looking for is a solution to my 27" CD's power up issue so I'm looking at UPS's that deliver a high wattage punch of 800watts or more to kick start my lazy display (Crappy capacitors to blame? IDK...). Just not sure a UPS will offer a power boost and be the solution I'm looking for.

----------

A Mac-specific review from that link:

Question, Do you need to leave the UPS hooked up via USB at all times (I'm guessing for auto shut down you do) or can you just use the general features of a UPS without the handshake?

----------

Seems decent. No real issues in the reviews.

Side note.. a LOT of complaints in comments on the APC products about trying to get damage claims and replacements. APC can guarantee all they want, but if you have to fight with a call center in the Phillipines, that's a problem, and those claims ring hollow.

Ya, I never put any weight into those claims they will replace 5K worth of equipment anyway. But thank you for mentioning it, something to consider.

 

[Gav Mack]

If that's the case, I'd just go with a quality surge protector for now.. I can't afford $600 for a UPS.

I could buy a used apc 1500 box for $120-200 equivalent here in the uk. Unlike the cyber power they are built like tanks, have quality bits inside, last forever and recelling is cheap. Only problem is their size and hiding them out of sight.

 

[ActionableMango]

Question, Do you need to leave the UPS hooked up via USB at all times (I'm guessing for auto shut down you do) or can you just use the general features of a UPS without the handshake?

You don't need to hook it up via USB if you just want to run off battery when the power goes out.

The USB hookup is to notify the MP that the AC is off so that it can shut down properly, and so that optional power management software can communicate with the UPS to determine things like remaining battery power.

 

[wildmac]

Plus non pure SINE wave can apparently damage your CPU's PSU, maybe more.

What's the real risk here? and how much is FUD? Like I said, after shelling out for the nMP and storage, $600 for a UPS is not in the budget, especially if saving files is not my main goal, but rather brownout and surge protection.

 

[sjinsjca]

A UPS with a sinusoidal output would be preferable to one with a trapezoidal output, due to the high-frequency components of the latter, which might be detrimental to your costly electronics. Perhaps that is what the Apple tech was concerned about.

Sinusoidal-output UPSes are more costly but IMHO worth the money.

 

[VirtualRain]

A UPS with a sinusoidal output would be preferable to one with a trapezoidal output, due to the high-frequency components of the latter, which might be detrimental to your costly electronics. Perhaps that is what the Apple tech was concerned about.

Sinusoidal-output UPSes are more costly but IMHO worth the money.

Is there any pure sine wave UPS that also has outlets that will automatically turn peripherals off when the computer is off?

So far, I can only find the Tripp Lite product I mentioned above and the Cyberpower Ecologic series, neither of which has pure sine wave.

For me, the ability to power down my USB audio interface and powered monitors every night is more important than the once in every 5 year power failure I might experience.

 

[d-m-a-x]

the 750 actually worked fine for the first 1.5 years... gave me a few mins to shut down. Now the Mac and monitor go out instantly at the first fluctuation in power. But the tests run by the APC rep say the battery is fine, just overwhelmed/undersized. She said even an undersized unit will sometimes perform for a year until it gets overwhelmed.

I've heard so many things from Apple and APC that its hard to tell what to believe.

Great input-- thanks.

Working on shoots with strobes, i hate ups because the packs guarantee small fluctuations in power. More trouble than they are worth

 

[ActionableMango]

What's the real risk here? and how much is FUD? Like I said, after shelling out for the nMP and storage, $600 for a UPS is not in the budget, especially if saving files is not my main goal, but rather brownout and surge protection.

I have personal experience with this.

For many years we sold square wave UPS units along with Dell computers, which worked fine together. Then one day customers reported that they tested the UPS by unplugging them, and nearly all the Dells would turn off. In our own subsequent testing, very few would stay on, and from those few that stayed on, there was a squealing or buzzing noise coming from the computer's power supply.

We learned that the Dells had switched to Active PFC "high efficiency" power supplies that did not work very well with the square wave UPS units, and Dell told us to switch to pure sine wave units. We did so and everything is fine.

On further research I learned that Enermax, Silverstone, APC, Dell, HP, Lenovo, and Acer all recommend against using square sine wave for applications with Active PFC power supplies.

I am not an EE and I cannot tell you what would be damaged or what's at risk, but I do know there's little point in a UPS if there's a strong chance your computer will just shut off anyway, and I know the squealing noise was quite horrifying. Whether or not it actually damaged anything I do not know.

Note that the oMP uses an Active PFC "high efficiency" power supply. I do not know about the nMP.

Also, it is interesting to me that the CyberPower model linked above that is half the price of pure sine wave models is advertised as "pure sine wave" itself. I remember when this came out, and at the time CyberPower said they came out with new technology that was "adaptive sine wave", it was compatible with Active PFC power supplies, and it was an alternative to pure sine wave power supplies. Now apparently they just outright call it "pure sine wave". I wonder if they've actually updated it, or if it's just a change in marketing.

 

[VirtualRain]

If I can't find a reasonably priced pure sine wave UPS with auto outlets, I may just forget the UPS and get one of these smart power bars...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006PUDQK...TF8&colid=3U0TODJ4J6PTB&coliid=I2LD1JGAL26NNX