USB 3.1 PCIe for cMP info repository

[simonchase]

Super excited about this!

Most importantly, does usb c even work in your cMP?

Indeed.

Looking at this thread, the CalDigit appears to be the only dual USB-C and USB-A that works on a cMP running Sierra right now. Did I miss any others?
[doublepost=1481018745][/doublepost]By the way. Before doing any research, I got the ASRock USB3.1/A+C Pcie card and results have been flakey at best.
Lots of transfers freezing up, disks not appearing, slow transfers.

 

[pastrychef]

By the way. Before doing any research, I got the ASRock USB3.1/A+C Pcie card and results have been flakey at best.
Lots of transfers freezing up, disks not appearing, slow transfers.

Were you using a USB 3.1 device for your testing? Did you experience transfer freezes with USB 2/3 devices?

 

[simonchase]

Were you using a USB 3.1 device for your testing? Did you experience transfer freezes with USB 2/3 devices?

I was using ORICO USB 3.1 Type C USB-C Hard Drive Docking Station for 2.5" or 3.5" SSD/HDD

Which was also brand new. I thought it was the culprit but reading here I think it's the card

 

[pastrychef]

Is this the one you were using:
Amazon.com: ORICO Tool Free Type C USB 3.1 to SATA 2.5-inch / 3.5-inch External Hard Drive Docking Station HDD Enclosure Case [Support UASP & 8TB Drives] - Black: Computers & Accessories

If yes, read the description and you will notice that it mentions twice "up to 5Gb/s". That's the theoretical speed limit of USB 3. USB 3.1 has a theoretical speed limit of 10Gb/s.



I've purchased two different SATA to USB 3.1 adaptors and both ended up being nothing more than USB 3 adaptors with type C connectors. I don't know if this was intentional or just ignorance on the seller's part but it seems to be pretty wide spread and we (consumers) need to be careful when making these purchases.

 

[simonchase]

Is this the one you were using:
Amazon.com: ORICO Tool Free Type C USB 3.1 to SATA 2.5-inch / 3.5-inch External Hard Drive Docking Station HDD Enclosure Case [Support UASP & 8TB Drives] - Black: Computers & Accessories

We (consumers) need to be careful when making these purchases.

It is that one. But it wasn't just slow. It was slow slow, and transfers crashed, and it wouldn't show up at all in El Cap. The fastest speeds were not on my wish list, just the connections. USB 3.0 speed is plenty fast for my current needs.

It could well be that the problem lies with the docking station (or both) but my current ignoramus pet theory is that it's the card.

 

[pastrychef]

Have you tried with Sierra yet?

 

[simonchase]

Have you tried with Sierra yet?

Yes: flakey (No pun intended pastrychef!)
The card makes no mention of support for OSX or macOS so...
Do you have one?

 

[pastrychef]

When I tested the USB 3.1 ports on my hackintosh in Sierra. The ports worked, albeit at USB 3 speeds because the USB devices I had were not true USB 3.1... Since no addition kexts were needed for them to work, I am guessing that it should also just work on a real Mac.

 

[simonchase]

Well, I have just clean reinstalled Sierra as I was having other issues. I wonder if maybe that was the problem. OK, I'm going to start again from scratch and see if it works again now. Just started a transfer 5.27 TB - 490,000 items, says it's going to take 10 hours. It never got past 90G before failing before so we shall see...
[doublepost=1481026823][/doublepost]Sadly, It has died at 202GB transferred.

 

[itdk92]

For all the poblems listed above, I decided to go for regular USB 3.0.

I mean it is a specs nightmare between devices AND cables.

Hope it will be all settled in 1-2 years, and then I will swap (maybe before if needed)

Anyways, after some scavenging online, I found an Italian seller who had a Fasta 6GU3-PRO in his Mac Pro, which he was auctioning on eBay.

Made him a good offer for the card alone, and it should arrive tomorrow. Pretty excited.

Kind of impressed it was the only ONE Fasta PRO i could find worldwide (searched on multiple Amazons, eBays, other sites..)

 

[Synchro3]

For all the poblems listed above, I decided to go for regular USB 3.0.

I mean it is a specs nightmare between devices AND cables.

Hope it will be all settled in 1-2 years, and then I will swap (maybe before if needed)

Anyways, after some scavenging online, I found an Italian seller who had a Fasta 6GU3-PRO in his Mac Pro, which he was auctioning on eBay.

Made him a good offer for the card alone, and it should arrive tomorrow. Pretty excited.

Kind of impressed it was the only ONE Fasta PRO i could find worldwide (searched on multiple Amazons, eBays, other sites..)

It is indeed the most compatible and pleasant card.

If you want to use the internal SATA ports organize power: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/motherboard-to-pcie-sata-power.1712884/#post-18855446

 

[wonderspark]

With my CalDigit FASTA-6GU3 Plus, I have an LG G5 phone that I connected to it, and it transfers files via drag and drop after switching phone from 'charge only' to 'transfer data' mode. I didn't get the 'extra' bit with 10Gbps functionality, only 5Gbps. It shows 5Gbps in the System Information for USB 3.0 SuperSpeed bus.

I also have an older USB 3.0 external HDD attached as my Time Machine, and it completed a fresh backup from scratch, about 2.1TB, pretty fast. I didn't time it, but I think it took 2-3 hours. It hasn't shown any failures or issues for me yet. I need to get a USB 3.1 device and a USB-C to USB-C cable and see how things go, but I expect it will be fine.

 

[pastrychef]

With my CalDigit FASTA-6GU3 Plus, I have an LG G5 phone that I connected to it, and it transfers files via drag and drop after switching phone from 'charge only' to 'transfer data' mode. I didn't get the 'extra' bit with 10Gbps functionality, only 5Gbps. It shows 5Gbps in the System Information for USB 3.0 SuperSpeed bus.

I also have an older USB 3.0 external HDD attached as my Time Machine, and it completed a fresh backup from scratch, about 2.1TB, pretty fast. I didn't time it, but I think it took 2-3 hours. It hasn't shown any failures or issues for me yet. I need to get a USB 3.1 device and a USB-C to USB-C cable and see how things go, but I expect it will be fine.

Please keep us posted on whether or not you get true USB 3.1 speeds with your device. As I stated earlier, my two attempts at purchasing USB 3.1 devices yielded nothing more than USB 3 devices with type C connectors.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Rustus Maximus]

With my CalDigit FASTA-6GU3 Plus, I have an LG G5 phone that I connected to it, and it transfers files via drag and drop after switching phone from 'charge only' to 'transfer data' mode. I didn't get the 'extra' bit with 10Gbps functionality, only 5Gbps. It shows 5Gbps in the System Information for USB 3.0 SuperSpeed bus.

I also have an older USB 3.0 external HDD attached as my Time Machine, and it completed a fresh backup from scratch, about 2.1TB, pretty fast. I didn't time it, but I think it took 2-3 hours. It hasn't shown any failures or issues for me yet. I need to get a USB 3.1 device and a USB-C to USB-C cable and see how things go, but I expect it will be fine.

Thinking of picking this card up myself, wonderspark, and saw this little footnote at the bottom of the product page on CalDigit's website.

4. In order to provide the best compatibility, the FASTA-6GU3 Plus card comes with USB 3.1 5Gbps firmware by default. To enable USB 3.1 10Gbps support, please contact support@caldigit.com for the Mac and Windows firmware update package. Mac computers must be updated to Mac OS 10.12 or above and Windows computers must use Windows 7 or above before the USB 3.1 10Gbps firmware can be updated and supported.

Perhaps this explains the speed difference you are currently seeing? If so would love to hear back once you have the firmware updated.

 

[itdk92]

Thinking of picking this card up myself, wonderspark, and saw this little footnote at the bottom of the product page on CalDigit's website.

4. In order to provide the best compatibility, the FASTA-6GU3 Plus card comes with USB 3.1 5Gbps firmware by default. To enable USB 3.1 10Gbps support, please contact support@caldigit.com for the Mac and Windows firmware update package. Mac computers must be updated to Mac OS 10.12 or above and Windows computers must use Windows 7 or above before the USB 3.1 10Gbps firmware can be updated and supported.

Perhaps this explains the speed difference you are currently seeing? If so would love to hear back once you have the firmware updated.

If any of you contact them, let us know

Sounds like a custom driver/firmware though, which makes me wonder how long they will support it or update it, should anything make it not work under the next releases of macOS.

 

[wonderspark]

Thinking of picking this card up myself, wonderspark, and saw this little footnote at the bottom of the product page on CalDigit's website.

4. In order to provide the best compatibility, the FASTA-6GU3 Plus card comes with USB 3.1 5Gbps firmware by default. To enable USB 3.1 10Gbps support, please contact support@caldigit.com for the Mac and Windows firmware update package. Mac computers must be updated to Mac OS 10.12 or above and Windows computers must use Windows 7 or above before the USB 3.1 10Gbps firmware can be updated and supported.

Perhaps this explains the speed difference you are currently seeing? If so would love to hear back once you have the firmware updated.

Yes, I saw that prior to purchase, and since I'm still on Mavericks, I didn't bother with the updated firmware. That is what I was trying to indicate when I said I didn't get the "extra bit" 10Gbps option. I have no intention of going to 10.12 just yet, so I knew it would be wasted on me. Honestly, I don't know if I'll ever go beyond 10.9.5 on this Mac.

 

[follow]

Indeed.

Looking at this thread, the CalDigit appears to be the only dual USB-C and USB-A that works on a cMP running Sierra right now. Did I miss any others?
[doublepost=1481018745][/doublepost]By the way. Before doing any research, I got the ASRock USB3.1/A+C Pcie card and results have been flakey at best.
Lots of transfers freezing up, disks not appearing, slow transfers.

Yes, I bought the A+C. Orico speed is also very slow. Not as USB2.0, do not know what the reason is. The system 10.10.5

 

[simonchase]

So...

I have installed the CalDigit, and in conjunction with the Orico and an HDD and a USB-C male to male cable I have got it up and running. Looking like USB 2.0 speeds at the moment according to the system report but I've requested the firmware update so we will see...

 

[simonchase]

"I apologize for the inconvenience. The firmware update will resolve this issue and we are very close to releasing it. We will publish it for download on our website as soon as it is available."

I'm happy to wait for it assuming it's fairly soon, and appreciate their prompt reply...

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Been following this thread for a while.

cMP 4.1 flashed to 5.1 running Sierra

Removed my KT4004, which always performed flawlessly. Max read/write speeds were 340-345MB/s on it. PCIe x1 2.0 on these machines is good for about 350MB/s max real throughput. Example, my AHCI SM951 512GB does 1366-1380MB/s at PCIe x4 2.0 in the next slot up.

Installed Ableconn PU31-1A1C. ASM1142 chip. PCIe bus-powered or SATA powered. 10gbps. One USB 3.1 Type A, One USB 3.1 Type C. The type C seems non-functional with 3.x devices. Type A works perfectly at USB 3.1 5gbps and USB 3.0(5gbps).

Next, I tried Ableconn PUSB31P2A. ASM1142 chip. PCIe bus-powered or SATA powered. 10gbps. The two USB 3.1 Type A work perfectly at USB 3.1 5gbps and USB 3.0(5gbps).

On both Ableconn cards, speeds can hit 390-405 MB/s. As with nearly all ASM1142 cards, it’s PCIe x2 2.0 signaling(ASM 1142 also supports PCIe x1 3.0 mode). The card edge connector is PCIe x4 2.0, but past the x2 lanes, only the ground pins are used.


The catch:
10gbps isn’t stable on either card. I use a 220GB sequential transfer to a 250GB Samsung 840 Pro as my test. I have a Crucial 1050GB MX300 I’ve also used and the results match. I’ve tried a bus-powered Startech USB312SAT3CB SATA-600 to USB 3.1 10gbps adapter cable, a separately-powered Startech SDOCKU313 SATA-600 to USB 3.1 10gbps drive dock, and lastly a bus-powered Startech S251BMU313 2.5” SATA-600 to USB 3.1 10gbps enclosure. The drives either hang or totally drop out fairly quickly. I think the card and device try to negotiate 10gbps and MAC OS doesn't handle it. 10gbps signaling rate is not always-on. USB ramps up to 10gbps if needed, part of APM.

Doesn’t matter if I try with or without a SATA power cable. Same result. Power isn’t the issue, since the drive dock doesn’t even use bus power.

I’ve eliminated cabling as the issue. Tried 4 different cables that work fine on a separate Win10 PC with USB 3.1 10gbps.

I’ve got 3 more USB 3.1 10gbps enclosures on order from different brands and will report back if any of them work, but I’m not expecting it.


The workaround:
I have an Orico USB 3.0 2-port hub (DBU3-2P BK) that I stuck to the top/front handle of the cMP and used with the KT4004. Vertical connectors. Plugging that into either of the Ableconn cards produces 100% stability. Now at least I have total stability with all USB 3.0/3.1 devices and can hit 390-400MB/s since the ASM1142 chip uses 2 PCIe lanes.

TL;DR ASM1142 USB 3.1 10gbps is unstable. USB 3.1 5gbps is fine. PCIe 2x 2.0 cards are 400MB/s vs PCIe 1x 2.0 cards are 340MB/s.

 

[ActionableMango]

I think the card and device try to negotiate 10gbps and MAC OS doesn't handle it.

I would be interesting to conduct the speed test on the exact same computer and hardware, but with Windows. That would verify Mac OS as the problem, which I think is very likely but not certain.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

I would be interesting to conduct the speed test on the exact same computer and hardware, but with Windows. That would verify Mac OS as the problem, which I think is very likely but not certain.

Installed Win7 on a spare SSD I placed in the spare optical drive bay.

Transfer speeds are all around 300-320MB/s due to Win7 not supporting UASP transfers. BOT transfer mode, even with registry "turbo" mods is still horribly inefficient.

With all 3 of the above listed USB 3.1 10gbps devices plugged into the USB 3.0 hub, everything is 100% stable.

Connected directly to the card:
With both the bus-powered Startech 2.5” SATA-600 to USB 3.1 10gbps enclosure and the Startech SATA-600 to USB 3.1 10gbps adapter cable, they're unstable, same behavior as under Sierra. Different outcome with the Startech SDOCKU313 SATA-600 to USB 3.1 10gbps drive dock; it's fully stable.

Now it gets weird: The bus-powered enclosure and adapter cable are unstable still under Sierra. The self-powered drive dock is not only stable under Sierra, but it shows as Up to 10gb/sec. I had not yet tested in under Sierra 10.12.2 until just now. Transfers are running at 500-515MB/s. 511MB/s is likely beyond the real-world limit of a 5gb USB link. Screenshot is of Activity Monitor while copying a few dozen 2-6GB files from the Crucial MX300 1050GB in the drive dock to a Samsung SM951 512GB.

The bus-powered devices are still unstable at 10gb/s, however I'm fairly certain that it's a matter of not quite enough power available on the USB bus once 10gb/s mode kicks in and both the SSD and the JMS578 SATA-USB are both running at max power/speed.

Another thing I'm unable to isolate comparing the unstable bus-powered devices to the self-powered dock is cables. The Dock is USB-B, the enclosure is Micro-USB, and the SATA-USB cable is molded together. Using 3 different micro-USB cables, the enclosure is still unstable.

In general, I think our collective USB 3.1 10gb instabilities are due to a lot of cables that are just barely ok at USB 3.0, but fall out of spec when pushed to USB 3.1 speeds. Bear in mind that, even at 5gb, USB 3.1 uses 128b/132b encoding vs USB 3.0's 8b/10b, which will make USB 3.1 much less tolerant of supply voltage sag and lousy cables.

Minor update: The dock crashes after 250-300GB of sustained 500MB/s transfers. I pulled it apart. The ASM1351 bridge chip inside it gets up to about 105°C then it locks up. Added a small copper heatsink to the ASM1351. 550GB transferred without errors.

Ableconn PUSB31P2A USB 3.1 Gen 2 10 Gbps 2-port Type-A PCIe x4 card works and is currently $30 on Amazon.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

After testing all of the following USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10gbps) enclosures/adapters:
Startech S251BMU313 2.5” (USB Micro-B)
Startech USB312SAT3CB adapter cable (USB-A cable molded on)
Patriot Gauntlet4 (USB Micro-B)
Siig JU-SA0Q12-S1 (USB-A)

I have found the same things to be true:
1) All have the Asmedia ASM1351 SATA600 to USB 3.1 gen2 10Gbps bridge chip.
2) They're all perfectly stable at USB 3.0 speeds
3) None will register at 10Gbps when connected to a 10Gbps Superspeed+ port.
4) They're all unstable when used with an SSD on USB 3.1.
a) Trying to transfer at 450+ MB/s will cause most of them to reset or drop out fairly quickly.
b) I added at 6.3v 220uF capacitor to the SIIG and stability at 450+MB/s went up from 20 seconds to 1 minute.
c) I then epoxied a large heatsink to the ASM1351 bridge chip. It lasted about 10 minutes before dropping out.

Currently, bus-powered SATA SSD in a USB 3.1 Gen2 enclosure connected to a USB 3.1 Gen2 port is not looking good.

It's a combination of inadequate power and the ASM1351 overheating. Cutting corners when designing these little enclosures the way they did with USB 3.0 is no longer acceptable.

The bad news is that the Asmedia chip is the only SATA-600 to Superspeed+ bridge chip out there, and its thermal issues are going to make USB 3.1 as a whole appear unstable since it's in so many products. There is the ASM1352R as well, which powers the 2.5" and mSATA RAID enclosures.

I've ordered the Oyen Digital Mini Pro. It still uses the ASM1351, but it's the supposed high-end design. I'm wanting to see if they've added thermal pads to sink the bridge chip's heat to the chassis and if they have some more robust power regulator design.

 

[ActionableMango]

The bad news is that the Asmedia chip is the only SATA-600 to Superspeed+ bridge chip out there, and its thermal issues are going to make USB 3.1 as a whole appear unstable since it's in so many products.

That's a bleak report you wrote. I wonder why a competitor hasn't stepped up to provide a working product.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

That's a bleak report you wrote. I wonder why a competitor hasn't stepped up to provide a working product.

It looks like ASMedia was first to market by a few months and first to sample by maybe several months.

JMicron announced the JMS580 in June, but I can't find one product with it.

Via Labs has the VL716. I found one 2.5" enclosure with it, the Satechi B01FWT2N3K. Ordered one. Encouraging point on the Via chip is that it's specc'ed at 100mW lower active power. That's lower draw on the USB bus and less heat as well.

Starting to think Apple was onto something moving to USB-C. Its 3A current capability is the easiest (if not the only) way to power a 3.1 Gen2 enclosure with a fast SSD.

The stability issues of so many enclosures at 10Gbps may also be why the Caldigit card ships defaulted at 5Gbps. They don't want the phone calls.