USB 3.x PCIe Cards for Classic Mac Pro

[flygbuss]

I'm looking for a mini PCIe USB 3 or USB 3.1 card that works with macOS.
Do I need additional power? It will be connected to a powered USB 3 Hub.

Thanks in advance!

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I'm using a Highpoint RocketU 1144C. I used it in my 5,1 cMP and I'm now using it in my NcMP 7,1. In the 5,1, I used it with an Elekcity powered hub. No add'l power required for the card. Workes Great. I guess the 1144C is has been superseded by the 1144D.

USB Catalog | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

HighPoint manufactures the fastest USB host controllers with dedicated, per-port performance architecture.

highpoint-tech.com

Lou

 

[flygbuss]

^^^^I'm using a Highpoint RocketU 1144C. I used it in my 5,1 cMP and I'm now using it in my NcMP 7,1. In the 5,1, I used it with an Elekcity powered hub. No add'l power required for the card. Workes Great. I guess the 1144C is has been superseded by the 1144D.

USB Catalog | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

HighPoint manufactures the fastest USB host controllers with dedicated, per-port performance architecture.

highpoint-tech.com

Lou

Thanks a lot but I’m looking for a solution for the Mini PCIe slot that usually holds the airport card.

im running out of PCIe slots but don’t need Bluetooth/WiFi on that machine

 

[crjackson2134]

^^^^I'm using a Highpoint RocketU 1144C. I used it in my 5,1 cMP and I'm now using it in my NcMP 7,1. In the 5,1, I used it with an Elekcity powered hub. No add'l power required for the card. Workes Great. I guess the 1144C is has been superseded by the 1144D.

USB Catalog | HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

HighPoint manufactures the fastest USB host controllers with dedicated, per-port performance architecture.

highpoint-tech.com

Lou

No, only the model number is superseded. It's the same card...

 

[flowrider]

Thanks a lot but I’m looking for a solution for the Mini PCIe slot that usually holds the airport card.

im running out of PCIe slots but don’t need Bluetooth/WiFi on that machine

Hmm, I don't know where that card is in the NcMP 7,1?

Lou

 

[joevt]

I'm looking for a mini PCIe USB 3 or USB 3.1 card that works with macOS.
Do I need additional power? It will be connected to a powered USB 3 Hub.

Do you mean you are using a Hackintosh PC laptop with a mPCIe slot? I think the mPCIe slot includes a USB connection, so such adapters should be really inexpensive (no extra USB controller required). The connection is only USB 2.0 though.

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Some mPCIe adapters have a PCIe USB controller to support USB 3.0 but they may require extra power. They might have a USB controller that is not supported by macOS.

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[flygbuss]

Do you mean you are using a Hackintosh PC laptop with a mPCIe slot? I think the mPCIe slot includes a USB connection, so such adapters should be really inexpensive (no extra USB controller required). The connection is only USB 2.0 though.

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Some mPCIe adapters have a PCIe USB controller to support USB 3.0 but they may require extra power. They might have a USB controller that is not supported by macOS.

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No, sorry I might be totally wrong but I was wondering if the slot that usually holds the WiFi/Bluetooth card inside a cMP 5,1 could be used for a usb card instead?

 

[LightBulbFun]

out of curiosity

has anyone tested if a USB 3.0 card like the inateck KT4004 is bootable in a MacPro7,1 or not?

 

[flowrider]

^^^^I had the Inateck card in my 5,1 cMP before I upgraded to the Highpoint card I referenced above. The Highpoint has four discrete controllers. The Inateck shares one controller. But, I'm sure it would work in a 7,1 NcMP.

Lou

 

[Earl Urley]

I have a HighPoint RocketU 1144C, and its never given me any problems past 10.12 (10.11 being the worst ever USB kernel ever written) and is super stable in 10.14.6, but I'm now wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to either:

HighPoint RocketU 1344A: 4 USB 3.1 "Gen 2" A-type ports, 4 ASMedia controllers, $160 (!) on Amazon

Sonnet Allegro Pro USB 3.2: 4 USB 3.2 A-type ports, 2 ASMedia controllers, $129 on Amazon

I worry that if I get the Sonnet, when I need to hook up four drives (doing 1-1 clones between the drive pairs) it'll be somewhat slower than the RocketU.. but it won't be too often..

Feel like just spending the extra $$$ just for the HighPoint quality and confidence, but if I don't need 4 controllers, why spend it..

 

[Flocarino]

HighPoint RocketU 1344A: 4 USB 3.1 "Gen 2" A-type ports, 4 ASMedia controllers, $160 (!) on Amazon

I use the HighPoint above and never had a problem in latest Mojave.

 

[crjackson2134]

HighPoint RocketU 1344A: 4 USB 3.1 "Gen 2" A-type ports, 4 ASMedia controllers, $160 (!) on Amazon

In my personal OPINION, this would be the better option. The PARTICULAR PCIe switch is a valuable asset from my point of view, and well worth the little extra.

If I were buying today, that's what I'd go with.

 

[joevt]

No, sorry I might be totally wrong but I was wondering if the slot that usually holds the WiFi/Bluetooth card inside a cMP 5,1 could be used for a usb card instead?

WiFi and Bluetooth are separate in MacPro5,1. Bluetooth has a proprietary USB 2.0 connection and WiFi (Airport) has a proprietary mPCIe connection (without USB). You can google for the "Apple Technician Guide" for "Mac Pro (Mid 2010/Mid 2012). So a normal mPCIe adaptor will not work. I don't know if anyone makes a mPCIe to cMP Airport adapter.
#1

I have a HighPoint RocketU 1144C, and its never given me any problems past 10.12 (10.11 being the worst ever USB kernel ever written) and is super stable in 10.14.6, but I'm now wondering if it's worth it to upgrade to either:

HighPoint RocketU 1344A: 4 USB 3.1 "Gen 2" A-type ports, 4 ASMedia controllers, $160 (!) on Amazon

Sonnet Allegro Pro USB 3.2: 4 USB 3.2 A-type ports, 2 ASMedia controllers, $129 on Amazon

I worry that if I get the Sonnet, when I need to hook up four drives (doing 1-1 clones between the drive pairs) it'll be somewhat slower than the RocketU.. but it won't be too often..

Feel like just spending the extra $$$ just for the HighPoint quality and confidence, but if I don't need 4 controllers, why spend it..

The 1144C has four controllers. The 1344A has two controllers like the Sonnet, except the 1344A has the newer ASM3142 instead of the ASM1142. See the first post.

The ASM1142 is slower even when only one drive is connected because the max bandwidth is 8 Gbps which is less than the max bandwidth of USB 3.1 gen 2.

In my personal OPINION, this would be the better option. The PCIe switch is a valuable asset from my point of view, and well worth the little extra.

If I were buying today, that's what I'd go with.

The 1144C, 1344A, and Sonnet all have a PCIe switch. Each of the four controllers of the 1144C is limited to 4 Gbps (I think), the Sonnet's two controllers are limited to 8 Gbps each, and the two controllers of the 1344A are limited to 15.75 Gbps each.

For each USB controller, the PCIe 2.0 switch of the 1144C and Sonnet makes it superior in a PCIe 1.0 slot compared to a card using the same USB controller without a switch.

For each USB controller, the PCIe 3.0 switch of the 1344A makes it superior in a PCIe 2.0 or 1.0 slot compared to a card using the same USB controller without a switch.

In either case, the PCIe switch adds the ability to use more USB controllers, giving you 4 USB ports instead of just 2 ports.

 

[crjackson2134]

Thanks for the clarification... I guess I should have been more precise. I added a word to my original post so as not to mislead anyone.

I have the 1144C and the Sonnet. They both work well, but if I were buying again today, I’d still get the 1344A.

 

[jscipione]

No, sorry I might be totally wrong but I was wondering if the slot that usually holds the WiFi/Bluetooth card inside a cMP 5,1 could be used for a usb card instead?

I feel you pain with trying to fit another device in with only 4 PCIe slots and there are some mini pcie slot usb3 cards on the market (Startech) but they all seem to use Renesas/NEC chips that don't have drivers included for them in macOS.

 

[Earl Urley]

Yeah, looks like I'll replace the 1144 with the 1344A, the ASM 3142 being newer seems to be capable of sustaining greater bitrates, should be interesting how it speeds up transfers.

The 1144 might even go into a dream Mac Pro if I ever hit lotto.

Now to order some micro type-B USB 3.1 cables..

 

[Mad Kat]

Hi, I wanted to ask you the negative sides of this card that I bought for little money:
Inateck KT4004
The only thing I know is that if I connect multiple devices, the top speed of 3.0 must be divided by the 4 ports

Questions:
Is it possible to start osx from usb for mac recovery?
if I transfer from a device to internal hd, or from usb to usb several gb of data and the mac goes to standby the transfer stops?

Thanks so much

 

[tommy chen]

there is no way to start a system from a 3.0 PCIe card on a cMP
only the USB 2.0 onboard allows a system start, because the drivers for the PCIe card are loaded later

 

[kohlson]

if I transfer from a device to internal hd, or from usb to usb several gb of data and the mac goes to standby the transfer stops?

I have this card in my cMP 4/5,1. The I transfer larger amounts of data, sometimes in the 100s of GB, through the USB-3 port I use an app called Amphetamine. It's free and available through the App Store. Using the app you can set the amount of time before the system will sleep.

 

[macstatic]

Trying to decide on a suitable USB 3 card for my cMP 5,1 and have read through a large part of this thread but am utterly confused.... I need:

- 4 ports (not essential, but eliminates the clutter of a USB hub)
- Bus power (again, eliminates clutter of power adapter for an attached hard drive)
- 1 or 2 controllers? Not sure about this one. Read below...
- USB A or C? Not sure. Read more below....
- Lasting quality/reliability. I'd rather pay a bit more to get lasting quality that works than the cheapo eBay alternatives. But don't want to pay more than necessary for features I don't need/can't take advantage of. Read on....
- Works with OSX 10.11 El Capitan? I might be able to upgrade to OSX 10.12, but it depends on the software which is the reason I still run 10.11 (Photoshop CS4, Lightroom 6 perpetual)

It'll be used for temporarily attached items (card reader, Flash drives and external backup drives), but I'm wondering: if I attach a USB-3 hard drive enclosure with 2 or 4 removable drives inside, will it make any difference if I have a 1, 2 or 4 controller USB-3 board attached? Will it only make a difference if I attach one dedicated USB 3 cable to each separate drive in a separate enclosure?
(I already have a Firewire 800 4-bay removable hard drive enclosure used for archiving and additional backups, but it only takes 3 TB drives or smaller, so further down the road I might need to look into a USB-3 solution...)

As for booting from external USB-3 drives I've gathered this isn't possible with a USB 3 PCIe card of any brand/model. Is this true?
Also, I read that there's a speed-limitation of the cMP PCIe ports, so there's no use buying the best/fastest PCIe interfaces, correct? I currently have an ATI Radeon HD 5870 display card in one slot, and a cheapo SATA card installed by the previous owner. I have it installed due to an additional drive inside the Mac, but may be possible to do without. That will mean 2 or 3 free slots for the USB 3 interface in case I need to choose between the two types I understand it uses, if it makes a difference.

OK, that said I've looked into the Sonnet Allegro USB3-4PM-E (I believe that's the correct link -Sonnet doesn't specifically list their model numbers, and I can only determine from the writing on the board in the photo). I'm guessing this one has a single controller, right?
Then there's the Sonnet Allegro USB3C-2PM-E (I'm not sure, but this might be the correct link) which is priced around the same but has only 2 ports, but I'm not sure if this has 2 separate controllers or not, or if the USB-C connectors means it's faster than the other card I mentioned...
I know there are cheaper cards, but I want something that works right away.
(the OSX 10.11 USB-3 issue might still be a problem -is there a downloadable patch or fix for this in case I can't upgrade beyond 10.11?).
Suggestions? Comments?

 

[jscipione]

Based on your requirements you should get a FL1100 based KT-4004 which will get you 4 USB 3.0 ports connected to an internal hub. Although this card has just 1 controller it should be able to handle four hard drives and share the bandwidth across them and should work on macOS 10.8+. For multi-controller cards you have 3 options and they are all Sonnet. One is to get the Sonnet Allegro Pro which has four dedicated FL1100 chips, one for each port. This option may be better if you want to achieve full speed while using all four devices at the same time for example with SSDs connected in a RAID. The second is to get the Sonnet Allegro 3.1 linked above which has four ports connected to two ASM2142 chips each driving 2 ports. The ASM chip use a PCIe x2 connection rather than the PCIe x1 connection of the FL1100 so theoretically it should be just as fast with four devices connected as the Pro using 2 controllers instead of four. This card also supports USB3.1 gen2 10gbps transfer rate with supporting devices. However, this card may not work on El Capitan as the ASMedia drivers were added in Sierra. Lastly I’ll give an honorable mention to the Sonnet Allegro 4-port Type-C card which is basically the same as the Sonnet Allegro 3.1 card but uses USB-C connectors instead of A.
[automerge]1586363880[/automerge]
Booting is not possible with any USB3 card on this machine. The speed limitation of the Mac Pro is that it’s PCIe 2.0 bus can only handle ~500MB/s on a x1 card which is lower than the maximum 625MB/s that USB 3.0 bus can go. Some of the newer ASMedia-based cards use a PCIe x2 connection which can theoretically go up to 1000MB/s with usb 3.1gen2 devices so I wouldn’t say that you shouldn’t bother with newer chipsets just that you shouldn’t expect to get the maximum speed that you would on a PCIe 3.0 bus. These speeds are theoretical in practice unless you are connecting fast SSDs you’ll won’t be able to achieve these transfer rates anyway.

 

[kohlson]

I have a KT-4004, and it's about right for my usage. It was inexpensive. It worked right out of the box. It has an Seagate 8TB drive connected that I use to duplicate large video working sets (100GB+). The drive was inexpensive, and is easily the slow link.

I also use this to offload video clips from SDXC cards. Usually 30-60GBs at a time.

I would characterize my usage as "several times per week."

Note that there is interference with my Magic Mouse 2. This is common with all USB-3 adapters.

A friend bought one of the Sonnet cards (about $50-60) and has been happy with that - except for the BT interference thing.

 

[joevt]

The speed limitation of the Mac Pro is that it’s PCIe 2.0 bus can only handle ~500MB/s on a x1 card which is lower than the maximum 625MB/s that USB 3.0 bus can go.

500MB/s is the max without considering overhead. Maybe 450 MB/s with overhead.

5Gbps USB 3.0 = 625MB/s on the wire but USB 3.0 uses 8b/10b encoding like PCIe so it's also 500 MB/s max without considering overhead. A little over 400 MB/s probably when considering overhead.

Some of the newer ASMedia-based cards use a PCIe x2 connection which can theoretically go up to 1000MB/s with usb 3.1gen2 devices

1000MB/s is the max - usually you can get something like 750 MB/s if you are limited to PCIe 2.0.

so I wouldn’t say that you shouldn’t bother with newer chipsets just that you shouldn’t expect to get the maximum speed that you would on a PCIe 3.0 bus.

If you mean newer chipsets that can use PCIe 3.0 x2 like the ASM2142 or ASM3142 then you can expect to get maximum speed (900 MB/s) if the card has a PCIe 3.0 switch with x4 upstream. This usually means cards with two ASM2142 or ASM3142 controllers like the Sonnet Allegro USB-C 4-Port PCIe Card.

 

[macstatic]

Thanks to Jscipione, Kohlson and Joevt for your comments!

Unfortunately the Inatech KT-4004 isn't available here in Norway, and ordering it from the States or elsewhere will become very expensive.
It looks like all the Sonnet cards are available here, but the model numbers vs. names are very confusing. I need to clear that up before risking ordering the wrong model.

It appears the 4-controller/4 port card is called "Allegro Pro" (USB3-PRO-4P10-E) and is the top of the line model. I'll have to pay around US$ 260 for it here, which is too much considering I don't have specific needs for multiple drives at the moment.

The second one you mention, Jscipione, (Sonnet Allegro 3.1) sounds like a middle ground, and I believe the model you're referring to is USB3C-4PM-E, but alas the price is around US$ 257, so I might as well get the 4-controller version (Allegro Pro: USB3-PRO-4P10-E) then.

Lastly I’ll give an honorable mention to the Sonnet Allegro 4-port Type-C card which is basically the same as the Sonnet Allegro 3.1 card but uses USB-C connectors instead of A.

Which one is this?
I can only find a 4-port (one controller) card but with USB-A connectors (USB3-4PM-E) for around US$ 94 and a 2-port USB-C card with one controller (USB3C-2PM-E) at around US$ 115.
If I'm not mistaken, the latter (USB3C-2PM-E) allows for higher speeds, but only has 2 ports (so I'd need a hub or re-evaluate if I can do with just 2 ports), while the former is slower but has 4 connectors (USB-A). With the minor price difference (US$ 21) it appears the 2-port USB-C is a better investment than the 4-port USB3-4PM-E (even though I'll likely have to buy USB A-C adapters or cables and possibly a USB hub).
But you're saying there's actually a third single-controller PCIe board with both higher speed and 4 connectors?

Then there's the Mac speed limitation which I don't quite understand.
Right now, the USB 3 devices I have to attach are: a card reader, a 2.5" HDD and several Flash memory sticks (I think a few of them are USB 3). This might change in the future, but I'm used to Firewire 800 speeds with spinning HDDs, and from what I understand this will be a step up from that in any case, regardless of the USB 3 card I get.
Back to the Mac: aren't there two types of card slots inside the Mac Pro 5,1? Two fast, two slower. Will it make any difference if I place one of the faster USB 3 PCIe cards discussed above in one of the faster slots, or will the difference be negligible for my use?

If you mean newer chipsets that can use PCIe 3.0 x2 like the ASM2142 or ASM3142 then you can expect to get maximum speed (900 MB/s) if the card has a PCIe 3.0 switch with x4 upstream. This usually means cards with two ASM2142 or ASM3142 controllers like the Sonnet Allegro USB-C 4-Port PCIe Card.

I need to figure out which card this is.
Which PCIe slot should a card like that be plugged into?


As for the other issues:
Kohlson: I don't have a Magic Mouse, but I do use Bluetooth now and then (file transfers from various mobile devices). Will I get problems with this when I have a USB-3 PCIe card installed?

Jscipione: I just found out that my legacy software does indeed still work with OSX 10.12 (Sierra), so I'm going to upgrade my OSX 10.11.6 (El Capitan) SSD to 10.12.6 and all will be fine!
It would be nice to boot from a USB-3 device, but nothing I can live without. If I really need to do that I can always plug it into the Mac Pro front USB-2 connectors which will do the job, but at lower speeds. Not a dealbreaker.


UPDATE: I've done some more research and think I've figured out all the model differences. They all appear to have the same names (Sonnet Allegro), so model numbers are very useful when knowing what to order:

4 controller PCIe card
Allegro Pro USB 3.0 PCIe (USB3-PRO-4PM-E) 4 ports (USB-A), 4x Fresco logic controllers, USB 3.0, 5 Gbps, bus-power/charging (DISCONTINUED)

2 controller PCIe cards
Allegro Pro type A USB 3.2 PCIe (USB3-PRO-4P10-E) 4 ports (USB-A), 2x ASMedia 1142 controllers, USB 3.2, 10 Gbps, bus-power/charging
Allegro USB-C 4 port PCIe (USB3C-4PM-E) 4 ports (USB-C), 2x ASMedia 3142 controllers (cards shipped before Jan 2020 used ASM 1142 controllers), USB 3.2, 10 Gbps, bus-power/charging

1 controller PCIe cards
Allegro type A USB 3.2 PCIe 4-port (USB3-4PM-E) 4 ports (USB-A), 1x Fresco logic controller, USB 3.2, 5 Gbps, bus-power/charging
Allegro USB-C PCIe (USB3C-2PM-E) 2 ports (USB-C), 1x ASMedia 1142, USB 3.2, 10 Gbps, bus-power/charging

I hope I got all that right

So the information I read from a local webstore about the USB3-PRO-4P10-E being a 4-controller board is incorrect as it has 2 controllers, and since the USB3-PRO-4PM-E is discontinued and I can't find it for sale anywhere it pretty much rules out a 4-controller board (at least from Sonnet).
I need to re-read all the info about the various chipsets used above (Fresco Logic, ASM 1142, ASM 3142) and see what's best overall with ports and general speed.
I've also considered Startech's PCIe USB 3 cards, such as the 2x ASM 1142 controller/4 port, 10 Gbps PEXUSB314A2V or (other models by Startech) as they're a little cheaper than Sonnet's offers, but they either don't mention Mac support (only Windows and Linux) or just OSX 10.9-10.10 so I'm not sure if that would be a mistake (although I've read of Mac users (in this thread?) who have used Startech cards with success (at least so far).

 

[joevt]

I need to figure out which card this is.
Which PCIe slot should a card like that be plugged into?

No USB card requires more than 4 lanes, and all the PCIe slots in the MacPro5,1 are PCIe 2.0, therefore it doesn't matter what slot you put it in (4 lane or 16 lane).

You've got all the info on the cards now. Since you want to save money and don't care about speed, just get one of the single controller cards. I don't think you have anything that can do more than 5 Gbps. The ASM1142 will give 8 Gbps in case you get faster external storage in the future. You won't be able to tell the difference between that and the ASM3142 (10 Gbps). There are single controller ASM2142 or ASM3142 but they can't give more than 8 Gbps in a MacPro5,1 unless you have a dual controller version like the (USB3C-4PM-E) that has a PCIe 3.0 switch.