Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
USB 3.x PCIe Cards for Classic Mac Pro
- Thread starter ActionableMango
- WikiPost WikiPost
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Correct, USB is not Thunderbolt.
Thunderbolt includes USB, DisplayPort, PCIe.
The best Thunderbolt 3 add-in card is the GC ALPINE RIDGE because it is the only one with two DisplayPort inputs, allowing two 4K displays or one 5K display.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GC-ALPINE-RIDGE-rev-10#ov
However, all Thunderbolt 3 add-in cards can work only on motherboards that have a Thunderbolt add-in card header. No-one knows why that header is required. The cMP does not have this header.
Also, All Thunderbolt 3 cards are PCIe 3.0 x4 to allow 40 Gbps. cMP has PCIe 1.0 (10 Gbps) or PCIe 2.0 (20 Gbps). Therefore, you would need the Thunderbolt 3 card to be PCIe 1.0 x16 or PCIe 2.0 x8. Or you would need a PCIe 3.0 expansion chassis with a PCIe 1.0 x16 or PCIe 2.0 x8 connection to the host cMP. Expansion chassis are expensive, especially those that don't use a Thunderbolt connection. $900 for an x8 cable, $1000 for the expansion chassis. And there's no guarantee that a gen 3 chassis can work using an older gen PCIe slot.
Maybe a Thunderbolt 2 solution would be more reasonable. Thunderbolt 2 add-in cards also require a Thunderbolt add-in card header but they don't require PCIe 3.0.
Intel will make the Thunderbolt protocol specification available to third-party chipmakers, royalty-free, next year. So maybe someone can make something useful for older computers then, but probably not.
Thunderbolt will never be an option on the MacPro1,1-5,1. Thunderbolt is a chipset feature that was never available for the chipsets used in those old Mac Pros.
Alpine Ridge was the codename of the Thunderbolt 3 controller. Again, the chipset has to be compatible in order to use it.
Alpine Ridge was the codename of the Thunderbolt 3 controller. Again, the chipset has to be compatible in order to use it.
What do you need from a chipset that isn't provided by a PCIe slot in order to support a Thunderbolt controller?
Thunderbolt isn't much more than a PCIe bridge with hot plug capability like PC Card or CardBus or ExpressCard. If Intel's current Thunderbolt controllers can't be made to work in an older computer, that doesn't mean that a future chip made by Intel or someone else couldn't support Thunderbolt especially after Intel makes the spec available.
The Thunderbolt cards that are out there now require more than PCIe...
Source: ThunderboltEX 3 | Motherboard Accessories | ASUS USA
Source: GC-Thunderbolt 2 (rev. 1.0) | Motherboard - GIGABYTE
More info: Intel Announces "Thunderbolt ready" Upgrade Program for Motherboards, PCs | techPowerUp. None of the old Mac Pros were "Thunderbolt ready".
Last edited:
Right. I said a header was required and the classic Mac Pros don't have a header. I am also saying that in the future someone could make a solution that doesn't require a header unless the header does something necessary that can't be done any other way, which seems unlikely to me.
I wonder if a Thunderbolt 3 card can act at least as a USB 3.1 gen 2 controller or as a DisplayPort to USB-C adapter like the Sunix UPD2018, or if it could at least transmit DisplayPort streams over Thunderbolt without the PCIe stream? There's an example of someone using a Thunderbolt 3 card to output video to a Thunderbolt 3 display (LG UltraFine 5K) without using a Thunderbolt header connection.
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/lg-ultrafine-5k-build.208025/page-20#post-1544897
but they're using two Thunderbolt 3 cards with one connected to a header.
Anyway, this thread is about USB, so I won't mention Thunderbolt again until someone tests USB 3.1 functionality of a Thunderbolt 3 add in card.
I tested a GC-ALPINE RIDGE card in a 2008 Mac Pro. Since the Mac Pro has no Thunderbolt add-in card header connection, the Thunderbolt card will not enable it's PCIe devices, so there's no USB controller, no Thunderbolt networking, and no PCIe over Thunderbolt.
However, even without PCIe devices enabled, the card does allow single and dual DisplayPort 1.2 conversion to USB-C DisplayPort 1.2 alt mode, and dual DisplayPort streams over Thunderbolt. So it's like the Sunix UPD2018, plus a second port with DisplayPort alt mode, plus support for one or two DisplayPort streams over Thunderbolt, minus USB support (either with 2 lane DisplayPort alt mode, or plain USB mode).
So that means the card could be used with any computer with a PCIe slot (or maybe no PCIe slot if you use a PCIe power adapter) to connect an LG UltraFine 5K display at 5K resolution. However, the Nvidia drivers in macOS have crappy dual stream support for MST monitors which also affects the LG 5K display. An AMD card would work better. Windows shouldn't have a problem. Any of the display's features that require PCIe will not work (webcam, speakers, USB ports, USB brightness control). The display does support DDC/CI for brightness control as an alternative.
Actually, it appears that the header connection is not required for a Thunderbolt 3 card to allow PCIe communication to Thunderbolt devices. This has been seen in Hackintosh's, even those that don't have the header. They have a built-in Thunderbolt 3 controller though. Something in their firmware must enable the Thunderbolt 3 chip's devices somehow. Maybe there's a way to enable PCIe communication and the USB controller of the Thunderbolt card in other computers. The header might be required just for improved hot-plug, or wake/sleep functionality which I can do without. The USB controller of a Thunderbolt 3 chip could be superior to the usual ASM1142 implementations.
Actually
Actually, Amazon does ship most items to Hong Kong now but that's a great looking site you linked to - I'm hoping its legit as I'm based in Hong Kong!
I use Amazon all the time and just recently received the following items from them:
- Inateck USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card
-IOGear Bluetooth 4.0 USB adapter
-Gigabyte Radeon RX560 Gaming OC 2Gb
-IOGear 2-port USB 3.1 Gen 2 USB-C PCIe card
-4Gb (2x2Gb) DDR2 PC2-5300 SODIMM (for 2007 Blackbook)
i think you can try this one : www.local338shop.com
i think you can try this one : www.local338shop.com
Actually, Amazon does ship most items to Hong Kong now but that's a great looking site you linked to - I'm hoping its legit as I'm based in Hong Kong!
I use Amazon all the time and just recently received the following items from them:
- Inateck USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card
-IOGear Bluetooth 4.0 USB adapter
-Gigabyte Radeon RX560 Gaming OC 2Gb
-IOGear 2-port USB 3.1 Gen 2 USB-C PCIe card
-4Gb (2x2Gb) DDR2 PC2-5300 SODIMM (for 2007 Blackbook)
I'm pretty sure that stuff was made in Asia, probably China, and maybe even Hong Kong. So I find it a bit amusing that it was made in Asia, shipped to the USA, bought by a customer in Asia through a US retailer, and then shipped back to Asia.
Globalization I guess.
Yep, welcome to the modern world. And if you don't speak Cantonese here, you stand a very good chance of buying the wrong thing that isn't supported by our beloved cMP...
[doublepost=1501824234][/doublepost]
Yep, welcome to the modern world. And if you don't speak Cantonese here, you stand a very good chance of buying the wrong thing that isn't supported by our beloved cMP...
Even I can speak perfect Cantonese, they can still give me the wrong stuff. Anyway, yes, quite offen the only way to get the correct stuff is via Amazon regardless those things are actually make in China.
In fact, when backing projects on Kickstarter, we have to pay extra shipping fee even though the product is deliver via Hong Kong, but US buyer can get free shipping. I am sure they never ship my goods to US, because I am almost always the very first one that get the end product, well before all US buyers. They simply charge me extra money
I've have a 'no brand box' Etron EJ198 USB 3.0 2 port USB 3.0 card that I got here in Japan for ¥480 !
Has a molex power connector onboard.
I just discovered that it is working, mounting drives and shows up in Sys Info in Sierra 10.12.6
A nice surprise.
Has a molex power connector onboard.
I just discovered that it is working, mounting drives and shows up in Sys Info in Sierra 10.12.6
A nice surprise.
If you still has empty SATA port, you may consider use a SATA -> moles cable to power the card. Just make sure it has enough power to work when under high demand, and able to charge device.
I got the DisplayPort to Thunderbolt or USB-C DisplayPort alt mode working. See #73
This could allow a computer with no Thunderbolt 3 or USB-C to work with Thunderbolt 3 displays (e.g. LG UltraFine 5K display) or display adapters or USB-C DisplayPort alt mode displays or display adapters.
I'm still trying to figure out why a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card works in one slot, but not another, in a computer that supports an add-in card.
I just received the Inateck KT4004 from Amazon and am having some trouble with it.
I'm running a 4,1 with 10.9.5 and it keeps force ejecting drives when it goes to sleep. Finder keeps crashing as well and I have to hard reset to get anything done. Should I send it back or does someone with a working card know anything about it?
I'm running a 4,1 with 10.9.5 and it keeps force ejecting drives when it goes to sleep. Finder keeps crashing as well and I have to hard reset to get anything done. Should I send it back or does someone with a working card know anything about it?
Disable sleep when you use hard drives connected to a USB card. Does this problem not occur with USB ports of the Mac? If not, then there may be a way to get the same effect with ports of a USB card. This may involve DSDT edits, device property changes, or a combination. I don't know how to do it or if it's possible with a normal Mac. Here's the guide for Hackintosh's:
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/guide-10-11-usb-changes-and-solutions.173616/
I think UsbConnector from _UPC is most relevant? A port injector kext might be able to fix that (because a DSDT edit for normal Macs is not easy). Basically, the USB ports of a card should have the same information as the USB ports of the Mac, so that they behave the same (if indeed the Mac USB ports don't have the problem)?
Sleep is a known problem. I use software called Jettison to eject drives before the Mac sleeps.
I bought a KT4004 about 3 years ago and it works perfectly.
Bought one a month ago and it didn't function as expected. Takes 30s to mount a drive and then transfer speeds are really low. Any drives with more than a single partition fail to mount at all.
When I look at the new card compared to my old card there are slight differences in the board layout.
My original is also labeled KTU3FR-4PA. New one is labeled KT4004.
My original card is a Revision ID 0x0001.
New card is a Revision ID 0x0010.
Inateck refunded the card.
I have several cheap Inateck 4004 cards and a Sonnet Allegro Pro USB3 installed in several Mac pros in my office, and they all exhibit the "drive ejected on sleep" phenomenon.
This problem is explained on Sonnet's support page here:
http://www.addonics.com/products/ad4mspx2-a.php
This card works fine! It has never ejected any of the Msata drives on sleep. So why does this PCIe card work OK on sleep but the USB3 cards not????
One day I was browsing the internet for info about the Mercury Accelsior E2 PCIe SSD and I came across this page:
https://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20131008_1-Accelsior-driver.html
So the author alleges that there is a behaviour/bug in MacOS PCIe power down on sleep:
It seems more recent version of the OWC Accelsior PCIe card has built in hardware to deal with this the PCIE power down behaviour and does not require any additional driver.
So could this PCIe power down behaviour be the cause of our problems?
Could the "Disk Ejected on Sleep" phenomenon be fixed by a driver that delays the power down to the PCIe card by a short amount of time so it can eject the drives properly?
THe OWC driver is available here: https://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=/manuals/item/owcaccelsior.html
Perhaps someone who understands code and drivers could have a look a see if it is possible to tweak this driver so it works for our USB3 cards?????
This problem is explained on Sonnet's support page here:
To minimize power usage during sleep, power is removed from PCIe cards. Because of this power-saving specification, a USB 2.0 or 3.0 PCIe card is unable to maintain USB port power during sleep. In OS X, this result in a storage device disconnect upon wake from sleep. The storage device will automatically remount, but the system reports a disconnect message. Because Mac OS X flushes all caches before sleeping, this disconnect should never result in any loss of data.
A few of my cMP have a PCI card with 2x 1TB Msata drives attached to it, one of the drives is the boot disk.
http://www.addonics.com/products/ad4mspx2-a.php
This card works fine! It has never ejected any of the Msata drives on sleep. So why does this PCIe card work OK on sleep but the USB3 cards not????
One day I was browsing the internet for info about the Mercury Accelsior E2 PCIe SSD and I came across this page:
https://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2013/20131008_1-Accelsior-driver.html
So the author alleges that there is a behaviour/bug in MacOS PCIe power down on sleep:
* The OWC driver for the Accelsior PCIe SSD addresses a behavior (bug) introduced in OS X in which power is cut off prematurely to PCIe cards. This premature power cut-off bug was introduced in an OS X release a good time after I first tested and reported on the Accelsior.
The driver for the Accelsior PCIe SSD inserts a sub-second delay, giving the PCIe card time to finish its business (pending writes). Under Microsoft Windows on the same machine, no driver is needed (because the OS does not have this bug).
The power cut issue would apply to any PCIe card that needs time to do housekeeping before the power is cut, e.g. a hardware RAID card or other PCIe SSD.
The driver for the Accelsior PCIe SSD inserts a sub-second delay, giving the PCIe card time to finish its business (pending writes). Under Microsoft Windows on the same machine, no driver is needed (because the OS does not have this bug).
The power cut issue would apply to any PCIe card that needs time to do housekeeping before the power is cut, e.g. a hardware RAID card or other PCIe SSD.
It seems more recent version of the OWC Accelsior PCIe card has built in hardware to deal with this the PCIE power down behaviour and does not require any additional driver.
So could this PCIe power down behaviour be the cause of our problems?
Could the "Disk Ejected on Sleep" phenomenon be fixed by a driver that delays the power down to the PCIe card by a short amount of time so it can eject the drives properly?
THe OWC driver is available here: https://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=/manuals/item/owcaccelsior.html
Perhaps someone who understands code and drivers could have a look a see if it is possible to tweak this driver so it works for our USB3 cards?????
Last edited:
I bought a PCI-e USB 3.0 card from the French ebay seller Speedermac.
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBXHCIFL1100
PCI Device ID: 0x1100
PCI Revision ID: 0x0010
PCI Vendor ID: 0x1b73 Fresco Logic Inc?
It works under MacOS Sierra on my internal SSD
but when I boot with Yosemite on my pci-e SSD from OWC I have no Wifi. And a black screen if I use my Geforce 980. Very strange. Can someone give me advice?
TIA
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBXHCIFL1100
PCI Device ID: 0x1100
PCI Revision ID: 0x0010
PCI Vendor ID: 0x1b73 Fresco Logic Inc?
It works under MacOS Sierra on my internal SSD
but when I boot with Yosemite on my pci-e SSD from OWC I have no Wifi. And a black screen if I use my Geforce 980. Very strange. Can someone give me advice?
TIA
Last edited:
Thank you so much for that info. It may not truly solve the sleep issue but that is a great work around!
I bought an IOGear USB-C 3.1 Gen II for $34.99 off amazon that so far has worked perfectly out of the box on my 5,1. It's currently in slot 2 and connected to an OWC 10-port USB-C dock.
I'm keen to benchmark and compare transfer speeds if anyone can recommend their faveouute I/O benchmarking tool.
I'm keen to benchmark and compare transfer speeds if anyone can recommend their faveouute I/O benchmarking tool.
I bought a PCI-e USB 3.0 card from the French ebay seller Speedermac.
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBXHCIFL1100
PCI Device ID: 0x1100
PCI Revision ID: 0x0010
PCI Vendor ID: 0x1b73 Fresco Logic Inc
The website mentions compatibility with Yosemite and Mavericks
However this isn't true. You get no Airport Wifi and there is a conflict with the Geforce 980 card.
The card is only compatible with El Capitan and MacOS Sierra.
I contacted Fresco Logic and although I told them I have a Mac they asked me for the Windows info (in the DirectX Diagnostic Tool window).
However I found the solution by myself.