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Reindeer_Games

macrumors 6502
Nov 29, 2018
286
228
Pueblo, CO
I don't believe inteference is the fault of the controller chip itself, but from shortcuts in pcie board layout & design, but I'm sure I'll be corrected if this isn't the case.

Do you mean PCB board? That would be the card design-PCIe board layout would be the Apple logic board of the computer. A simple mistake to make since they interact so closely. There is the PCIe portion of the PCB, which is where it rests in the logic boards PCIe slot.

However-you may create peripheral disconnects when over-demanding bandwidth from the logic boards native PCIe switch, when combined with multiple secondary's to route it via lanes 3 or 4.

Native bandwidth of 4,1/5,1:

x0/x2/x4 or SoftRAID or Hardware RAID up to x4
x4/x2/x0
x16
x16

When you have required connectivity devices-just use one of the dedicated USB 2.0 ports on the machine. Use the expensive modern upgrades ports for drive ports if you are going to use multiple switch controllers, they will periodically decided things don't need bandwidth=connectivity issues.

In slots 3 or 4 you can only fit:

1 card with dual 10 Gbps controllers
or
2 cards with single 10 Gbps controllers
or
1 card with quad 5 Gbps controllers
or
2 cards with dual 5 Gbps controllers

...any greater deviation of that bandwidth will likely lead to some disconnect, at some given point, for required connectivity devices. Even those combo's are compressing bandwidths due to the PCIe 3.0 to PCIe 2.0 conversion and headroom requirements-so I've opted for single 10 Gbps card and controller for single port use (even though its dual port) to get full peripheral bandwidth, and 5 Gbps connectivity when dual ports are used.
 
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Mac_User 0101

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2017
133
43
Sonnet just released the Allegro Pro USB 3.1 PCIe card with USB-A ports and a new USB 3.1 card with four USB-C ports. They're both ASM1142 based and support UASP.

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro-pro-usb31-pcie.html

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/allegro-usbc-4port-pcie.html

Both offer transfer speeds up to 660 MB/sec, both are slot based and don't need additional power, both use one controller dedicated to two ports at a time.

All ports are powered with 7.5W available on each.

Also nice are dedicated resettable fuses on the card so that if you plug in something exotic that the card doesn't like, you just shut down and power on to reset the fuses.

Compatible with PCIe expansion boxes, macOS 10.10.x, 10.12.x and higher. (once again, El Capitan not supported because it has the cursed USB stack)

Cost for the Allegro Pro is about $140 on Amazon.

Might get the Allegro Pro USB 3.1 to replace my current HighPoint 1144C USB 3.0 card, although the Highpoint still has the advantage of one dedicated controller per single port.

I just bought this card for my 5,1. Got it from OWC but no mention on their site that it didn't work with El Capitan (which unfortunately I still use). I actually wanted the previous gen card b/c usb 3 with dedicated controllers is enough for my needs ATM. (I think the older one was 10.11 compatible too). The gen2 card is recognised in system profile with correct link speed but will not interface anything. I know this is due to a bug in the 10.11 kernel but it makes be wonder how the older cards worked. I'm contemplating returning it for something compatible with 10.11. I'm in the process of preparing High Sierra on another SSD to test if all my plug-ins play nicely. I use my machine as DAW which is why I'm so far behind the times. If I end up upgrading the OS then I'll keep the card b/c it's probably awesome. I'll likely only use it with 2 simultaneous devices (3 at the most). I read it provides quite a bit of bus power to it's ports which concerns me. My PCIe slots are all populated (gtx980, amfletec squid, E2, Allegro pro). Do you guys think I should be careful with the current draw? I don't anticipate using it for bus powered devices much other than the occasional flash drive but I'm not sure if that power of supplied on demand or not. I also don't want my fans to idle any higher when I'm mixing.
 
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Project Alice

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,083
2,166
Post Falls, ID
I just bought this card for my 5,1. Got it from OWC but no mention on their site that it didn't work with El Capitan (which unfortunately I still use). I actually wanted the previous gen card b/c usb 3 with dedicated controllers is enough for my needs ATM. (I think the older one was 10.11 compatible too). The gen2 card is recognised in system profile with correct link speed but will not interface anything. I know this is due to a bug in the 10.11 kernel but it makes be wonder how the older cards worked. I'm contemplating returning it for something compatible with 10.11. I'm in the process of preparing High Sierra on another SSD to test if all my plug-ins play nicely. I use my machine as DAW which is why I'm so far behind the times. If I end up upgrading the OS then I'll keep the card b/c it's probably awesome. I'll likely only use it with 2 simultaneous devices (3 at the most). I read it provides quite a bit of bus power to it's ports which concerns me. My PCIe slots are all populated (gtx980, amfletec squid, E2, Allegro pro). Do you guys think I should be careful with the current draw? I don't anticipate using it for bus powered devices much other than the occasional flash drive but I'm not sure if that power of supplied on demand or not. I also don't want my fans to idle any higher when I'm mixing.
Why exactly are you still using 10.11? I have a 3,1 Mac Pro (2008) and I'm on mojave on it. 10.11 is no longer updated. I'd go to at least 10.13.
 
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trifero

macrumors 68030
May 21, 2009
2,955
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I just bought this card for my 5,1. Got it from OWC but no mention on their site that it didn't work with El Capitan (which unfortunately I still use). I actually wanted the previous gen card b/c usb 3 with dedicated controllers is enough for my needs ATM. (I think the older one was 10.11 compatible too). The gen2 card is recognised in system profile with correct link speed but will not interface anything. I know this is due to a bug in the 10.11 kernel but it makes be wonder how the older cards worked. I'm contemplating returning it for something compatible with 10.11. I'm in the process of preparing High Sierra on another SSD to test if all my plug-ins play nicely. I use my machine as DAW which is why I'm so far behind the times. If I end up upgrading the OS then I'll keep the card b/c it's probably awesome. I'll likely only use it with 2 simultaneous devices (3 at the most). I read it provides quite a bit of bus power to it's ports which concerns me. My PCIe slots are all populated (gtx980, amfletec squid, E2, Allegro pro). Do you guys think I should be careful with the current draw? I don't anticipate using it for bus powered devices much other than the occasional flash drive but I'm not sure if that power of supplied on demand or not. I also don't want my fans to idle any higher when I'm mixing.


I also wonder why don´t you update to Mojave, also. Greater management of the RAM
 
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zedsdeadbaby

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2016
145
64
I just bought this card for my 5,1. Got it from OWC but no mention on their site that it didn't work with El Capitan (which unfortunately I still use). I actually wanted the previous gen card b/c usb 3 with dedicated controllers is enough for my needs ATM. (I think the older one was 10.11 compatible too). The gen2 card is recognised in system profile with correct link speed but will not interface anything. I know this is due to a bug in the 10.11 kernel but it makes be wonder how the older cards worked. I'm contemplating returning it for something compatible with 10.11. I'm in the process of preparing High Sierra on another SSD to test if all my plug-ins play nicely. I use my machine as DAW which is why I'm so far behind the times. If I end up upgrading the OS then I'll keep the card b/c it's probably awesome. I'll likely only use it with 2 simultaneous devices (3 at the most). I read it provides quite a bit of bus power to it's ports which concerns me. My PCIe slots are all populated (gtx980, amfletec squid, E2, Allegro pro). Do you guys think I should be careful with the current draw? I don't anticipate using it for bus powered devices much other than the occasional flash drive but I'm not sure if that power of supplied on demand or not. I also don't want my fans to idle any higher when I'm mixing.

Or at least 10.12... 10.12 or 13 should do you just fine.
(Personally I'd say stick with Sierra. 10.13 onward introduces stupid headaches like forced reboots when installing new plugins. I've also seen no measurable difference in performance between the two, so I'd only consider 10.13 a must if compatibility were an issue...)

APFS is also not essential in any way... Although it has some usefulness, it's equally as much a headache... APFS requires an APFS compatible OS to read APFS drives... So if you have more than one machine and still stuck on HFS stick with HFS if you move files a lot... I've kept my 4.1/5.1 on 10.12 and have nothing to complain about so far...
 
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bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,313
2,713
The majority of holdouts are audio engineers with ProTools software, hardware and plugins. Those people should search eBay for used equipment compatible with their old OS versions.

Last time I checked, the vast majority of software was approved for High Sierra. Still waiting on some Mojave approvals. It’s the unwillingness to update hardware for some that is the roadblock.
 
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Mac_User 0101

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2017
133
43
The majority of holdouts are audio engineers with ProTools software, hardware and plugins. Those people should search eBay for used equipment compatible with their old OS versions.

Last time I checked, the vast majority of software was approved for High Sierra. Still waiting on some Mojave approvals. It’s the unwillingness to update hardware for some that is the roadblock.

Yes that right. There is a saying in the audio industry..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it." It's not a computer that goes online for me so security is not a primary concern with that machine. I put off taking the later firmware updates due to the microcodes introduced but haven't noticed a perforce hit with duel X5690, so all good there.
[doublepost=1553689660][/doublepost]
Or at least 10.12... 10.12 or 13 should do you just fine.
(Personally I'd say stick with Sierra. 10.13 onward introduces stupid headaches like forced reboots when installing new plugins. I've also seen no measurable difference in performance between the two, so I'd only consider 10.13 a must if compatibility were an issue...)

APFS is also not essential in any way... Although it has some usefulness, it's equally as much a headache... APFS requires an APFS compatible OS to read APFS drives... So if you have more than one machine and still stuck on HFS stick with HFS if you move files a lot... I've kept my 4.1/5.1 on 10.12 and have nothing to complain about so far...

Yes, I will be forcing High Sierra HFS+ on PCIe SSD. I don't like how HFS+ operating systems are not shown in startup disk from APFS formatted partitions. Also, not entirely sure how ready APFS is for the masses at this point let alone people in my profession. There are still complications to think about with my flashed Nvidia GTX980 like waiting for web drivers everytime Apple releases a security update. If I find 10.13 has too many hurdles, I'll be downgrading to 10.12. When I upgrade the OS on this machine I try to get as far as I can as long as it's stable with my apps and drivers.
[doublepost=1553690153][/doublepost]
I also wonder why don´t you update to Mojave, also. Greater management of the RAM

Unfortunately, Mojave just isn't ready for the kind of apps and drivers I rely on. Also the pain of NVIDIA web drivers. When I migrate to a new OS, I pretty much wait for Apple to be finished with it. Due to the incompatibly with the Sonnet card I'll be trying 10.13 since it's pretty much finished and developers have had ample time to support it.
 
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zedsdeadbaby

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2016
145
64
There is a saying in the audio industry..."If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Hell yeah, pretty sure Charlie Clouser's still on Yosemite for exactly this reason ;)
And I was in the same spot. My Mac Pro was on 10.11 until last month. Didn't go near 10.13 due to all the issues my 2018 MBP has, and the upgrade to 10.12 was painless. Machine runs the same as it did in 10.11...
 

trifero

macrumors 68030
May 21, 2009
2,955
2,796
Or at least 10.12... 10.12 or 13 should do you just fine.
(Personally I'd say stick with Sierra. 10.13 onward introduces stupid headaches like forced reboots when installing new plugins. I've also seen no measurable difference in performance between the two, so I'd only consider 10.13 a must if compatibility were an issue...)

APFS is also not essential in any way... Although it has some usefulness, it's equally as much a headache... APFS requires an APFS compatible OS to read APFS drives... So if you have more than one machine and still stuck on HFS stick with HFS if you move files a lot... I've kept my 4.1/5.1 on 10.12 and have nothing to complain about so far...
I´m in Mojave with no APFS
[doublepost=1553716510][/doublepost]By the way, I have a FASTA-6GU3 that I don´t use anymore, that works with 10.5-10.9

Just in case someone can make use of it.
 

zedsdeadbaby

macrumors regular
Oct 27, 2016
145
64
I´m in Mojave with no APFS
[doublepost=1553716510][/doublepost]By the way, I have a FASTA-6GU3 that I don´t use anymore, that works with 10.5-10.9

Just in case someone can make use of it.
I've read about how to do it. Way too many steps for it to be used on my workhorse machine. And I have a strong suspicion that Apple will intentionally break this before Mojave's completed.
 

Mac_User 0101

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2017
133
43
I´m in Mojave with no APFS
[doublepost=1553716510][/doublepost]By the way, I have a FASTA-6GU3 that I don´t use anymore, that works with 10.5-10.9

Just in case someone can make use of it.

That actually looks like a really useful card with combo eSATA/USB 3. Shame it only works up to 10.9 because something like that would allow me to free up a PCIe slot. I kind of just keep the OWC 960GB SSD around for the eSATA ports. It's not a bad SSD but the SM951's smoke it.

I'm actually looking into finding an external USB 3/eSATA 4-bay RAID rack mount that fits 2.5" SSD's. Would love to get a RAID5 going on with something like that. With the lower cost of SATA SSD's today it's a shame to buy HD's unless you really need the larger capacity. Let me know if you guys have any suggestions.
[doublepost=1553732164][/doublepost]
Hell yeah, pretty sure Charlie Clouser's still on Yosemite for exactly this reason ;)
And I was in the same spot. My Mac Pro was on 10.11 until last month. Didn't go near 10.13 due to all the issues my 2018 MBP has, and the upgrade to 10.12 was painless. Machine runs the same as it did in 10.11...

Funny thing is, I did a test install of 10.13.6 the other night. Migrated my 10.11 data over just to see what worked and what didn't. Updated a few drivers and kernel extensions and started toying with it. I got so excited when everything worked. Then I took the security update that I didn't realize was just released. No Nvidia web driver now. I'm so ready to downgrade my GTX980 for a native supported card but it needs to have an EFI (for recovery if I need to disable SIP). I'm sure this 980 is going to cause me even more headaches when I eventually get to Majave so I'm jumping ship. I just don't know what to get. It doesn't need to be the greatest card, I just want a native EFI card that supports Metal.
 

trifero

macrumors 68030
May 21, 2009
2,955
2,796
That actually looks like a really useful card with combo eSATA/USB 3. Shame it only works up to 10.9 because something like that would allow me to free up a PCIe slot. I kind of just keep the OWC 960GB SSD around for the eSATA ports. It's not a bad SSD but the SM951's smoke it.


In fact, i use that card and post models since first day they exist. Now thw FASTA-6GU3 Plus, with two USB 3.1 ports. Also, the ESATA ports are bootable. Incredible versatile card. Just to say they don´t sell them anymore. http://www.caldigit.com/fasta-6gu3plus/
[doublepost=1553749535][/doublepost]
I just don't know what to get. It doesn't need to be the greatest card, I just want a native EFI card that supports Metal.

I recommend a Radeon 7950 or a a GTX 680. I use them in my 3.1 and 5.1. On ebay you can find them around 160 euros. Thares also a cheaper alternative, the GT 640 around 100 euros. But I haven´tested this last one.
 
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Mac_User 0101

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2017
133
43
[doublepost=1553749535][/doublepost]

In fact, i use that card and post models since first day they exist. Now thw FASTA-6GU3 Plus, with two USB 3.1 ports. Also, the ESATA ports are bootable. Incredible versatile card. Just to say they don´t sell them anymore.

I see, after looking at the FASTA site, the plus model ships with 5Gbps firmware which is compatible with 10.11 but you can change the firmware to 10Gbps which is 10.12+

Is it safe to say that no 10Gbps card will work with 10.11 due to its kernel bug? So even if I returned the new Sonnet Allegro Pro I'd be in the same boat as I am now unless I got an older card.

I've actually had luck modifying the IOUSBFamily.kext in the past with portions of the code from Yosemite in order to get a USB device working. I no longer use that device so I reverted it back to stock. I'm curious if that would work in this case. In the end I'm updating the OS anyway so it don't matter. I just want to know if there is a better solution for me than the Sonnet.
 
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trifero

macrumors 68030
May 21, 2009
2,955
2,796
I see, after looking at the FASTA site, the plus model ships with 5Gbps firmware which is compatible with 10.11 but you can change the firmware to 10Gbps which is 10.12+

Is it safe to say that no 10Gbps card will work with 10.11 due to its kernel bug? So even if I returned the new Sonnet Allegro Pro I'd be in the same boat as I am now unless I got an older card.

I've actually had luck modifying the IOUSBFamily.kext in the past with portions of the code from Yosemite in order to get a USB device working. I no longer use that device so I reverted it back to stock. I'm curious if that would work in this case.

I changed the firmware with the updater app that CalDigit sent me. Works like a charm, but I was on 10.13 when that happened.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,260
I changed the firmware with the updater app that CalDigit sent me. Works like a charm, but I was on 10.13 when that happened.
The firmwares from CalDigit should work with any card that uses the ASM1142 including the Sonnet cards. You can use the 10G firmware for Sierra (10.12) or later. El Capitan (10.11) requires the 5G firmware.
 
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Mac_User 0101

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2017
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The firmwares from CalDigit should work with any card that uses the ASM1142 including the Sonnet cards. You can use the 10G firmware for Sierra (10.12) or later. El Capitan (10.11) requires the 5G firmware.

This is very useful information.
 

joevt

macrumors 604
Jun 21, 2012
6,967
4,260
This is very useful information.
There's a link for the 10G firmware from CalDigit. The 5G firmware you can get by contacting CalDigit tech support. There are also various versions of firmware updates for the ASM1142 in Windows that should also work, but I don't know of one containing a 5G firmware.
 

Mac_User 0101

macrumors regular
Oct 8, 2017
133
43
There's a link for the 10G firmware from CalDigit. The 5G firmware you can get by contacting CalDigit tech support. There are also various versions of firmware updates for the ASM1142 in Windows that should also work, but I don't know of one containing a 5G firmware.

I actually successfully updated to High Sierra (avoiding APFS) with all apps and plugins working so now I'm good with the Sonnet 10G USB card. But now I understand that a lot of these 10G cards are using the ASM controller & firmware which is why they aren't compatible with El Cap. Good to know that I could have changed to the 5G firmware to get it working if I had to.

Do you like the Sonnet card or do you think there are better offerings for the money? I eventually want to find a USB 3.1/eSATA (two ports each) combo card so I can ditch the E2 and free up a PCIe slot for something more useful.
 

howiest

macrumors 6502
Aug 16, 2015
323
131
Left Coast
I eventually want to find a USB 3.1/eSATA (two ports each) combo card so I can ditch the E2 and free up a PCIe slot for something more useful.

Post back here if you find one "USB 3.1/eSATA (two ports each)", I've had a hard time sourcing a card like that. I had a NewerTech one, but it's stopped working as of El Capitan and beyond.
 
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