Maybe I got lucky or maybe it depends on the area. There’s a 4,1 with a Cinema Display for $300 on my local CL right now and some others in that price range in Portland and in Seattle too.
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Used Mac Pros for sale - Good Deal!
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You need to reverse that. Sellers typically ask a higher price for a 5,1 than they do for a 4,1.
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Neither of those are 5,1's, one is a single processor systems, and I don't live near Seattle. Unless I want to jump on a plane or take a very long drive I can't buy those systems. Where I live dual processor 4,1 and 5,1's don't come up on CL for $500. There's one right now with an asking price of $1,200. Maybe they occasionally come up but I haven't seen one for under $1,000.
The point being that availability / pricing from individual sellers on CL is unreliable. While you may be able to obtain a dual 5,1 for around $500 from time to time you can't count on it. I am a huge fan of CL. It's my first stop when I'm looking for certain things (such as computer equipment). I love that it's local and, as previously mentioned by tpivette89, I can physically inspect the item before purchase. But it's hit or miss on availability / pricing.
Knowing there are no dual processor 5,1's for ~ $500 on CL in my area what would you recommend I do to purchase one if I needed it today?
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I got lucky with my search for a couple of 30" Cinema Displays - I found a guy in Orlando (90 minute drive) who was selling one for $150. I replied to his CL post within 5 minutes of it going up. He had a second display he was retiring a few months later that he promised to me when I bought the first one that he sold to me for $175. Original purchaser, boxes, docs, etc. That was a total fluke and one of those "being there at the right time" situations. It's rare to get that lucky.
MacDann
*Almost*
The 3,1 still followed mPCIe standard and included the USB bus in the internal port. They also included the BT antenna and 3x WiFi antennas even on models that were not configured to order with WiFi even though when produced they only used a 2 band wireless N card. This makes it so that you can easily add BT4 and the 3 band AC WiFi combo card from a later model MacBook or maybe it was an iMac to a small adapter board that is completely plug and play. Later models require routing a USB cable somewhere outside the case and adding another antenna.
The backplane (that powers and provides SATA2 connectivity) uses a standard miniSAS connector that allows one to retain the use of the stock bays while upgrading to a SATA3 controller card. Later models don’t have this ability.
Better cooling ... I’ve seen a hanful of threads about later models getting too hot due to the poor ram and processor setup on the dual CPU trays. Ability to use all DIMM slots without impacting cooling.
The number of drives you could technically run is the highest even without adding any additional controllers. 2x PATA (IDE) drives, 6x SATA2 drives. The numbers go up fast if you add more cards internally.
(In my config I’ve finally removed the PATA cable and have the stock bays running at SATA3 and ran a miniSAS breakout cable into the optical bay to run 2x ODD and 2x 2.5” drives. And well, a lot more changes)
While the later models do have more and better processor options the 3,1 (and older with extra limitations) is the only one that has the ability to Overclock the system.
These things are all I can think of off the top of my head where the 3,1 beats later models.
I get you... Maybe all of those things were valid in 2010 but now that the later models can upgrade to an nVME, modern video cards and current OS that kinda looses its' value. I'll take an nVME over a 5gbs drive any day, no matter how many you can have in your system.
Delivery got bumped a day. The OWC machine should be here this afternoon. I'll report in as soon as I get it unpacked.
MP3,1 also has native nVME boot via a simple bootROM mod along with native APFS booting as well via the same type of modification.
So that becomes a moot point in my mind as I've already modded my system for nVME+APFS native booting.
GTX 600 series card works well enough for me, and i'm sure others are getting plenty decent use from the 1080 cards in the MP3,1. I've not been a big PC gamer in many many years (console gamer) so having the newest thousand dollar graphics card is not a big loss to me, and since I still have EFI boot screens in the 600 series I call that a win, which the RX580 doesn't have that everyone wants to use in the cMP.
I'm sure I'll update to Mojave at some point on this machine in the coming weeks, it may be officially 'unsupported' but even the 'supported' 5,1 mac pro can't get there without some pain points. I've run Sierra and High Sierra for their entire lifecycle on this machine without issues with features that I wasn't supposed to have (continuity, handoff).
I'm not saying that the MP3,1 doesn't have its faults (like no SSE4.2 instruction preventing modern AMD cards from working in newer OS than Sierra).
I just don't like blanket statements of "the newer ones are better in every way" when it is clear they really are not.
In my opinion there are many differences that would justify a higher price for a 5,1:
- Components are 1-4 years newer (less likely to fail from age)
- Much faster video card (5770 or 5870)
- Three monitor connections instead of two
- More VRAM (1GB instead of 512MB)
- More memory (3GB instead of 1GB)
- Larger capacity hard drive (1TB instead of 640GB)
- Airport Extreme card included as default instead of optional
- Faster ram included (1333MHz instead of 1066, even on models with a 1066 processor)
- Reports itself as a 2010 or 2012 instead of a 2009 (firmware update doesn't change this)
- Faster CPUs (2.4GHz vs 2.26GHz for the dual CPU model)
- Newer SMC firmware with some bug fixes (this is not changed via the firmware flash)
- As you mentioned, standard CPUs instead of delidded CPUs (for the dual CPU model), making upgrades significantly easier and safer
Yes I agree that's very true to a comprehensive upgrader like you and I and many others here. But the list is meant for everyone and I do see people here who run stock systems or maybe stock +1 or 2 changes.
People can look at the bulleted list and take away different things depending on whatever is relevant to them. For example if you need Wifi and you're not intent on being one of the AC/BT upgraders, then the 2010 includes it and the 2009 doesn't.
Personally I think in addition to the two you mentioned, I'd also consider the first bullet. To me a 2012 would be a little more valuable than a 2009 just from an age perspective.
Finally got the machine today. Just got back from an HOA meeting so I haven't had time to fire it up, but the physical condition of it is pretty darned good, I think. Some scratches on the access door side on the narrow piece of aluminum above the door, but other than that it's pretty much pristine. I'm very pleased.
I'll get it completely out of the box and packing tomorrow, post some photos, and fire it up. My initial reaction is a very positive one.
MacDann
I'll get it completely out of the box and packing tomorrow, post some photos, and fire it up. My initial reaction is a very positive one.
MacDann
Sorry it took me until today to get some pictures - been a busy week. To reiterate, I am very, very pleased at the condition of the machine that OWC sent me. Other than a wide scratch above the side door, the rest of the chassis appears to be pristine.
I have attached pictures below for your consideration. Needless to say, I would definitely order a "fair" condition machine from OWC again.
As an aside, I have already applied the 5,1 firmware update as well as the firmware updates through High Sierra. I'm not sure I'll update this machine to Mojave, but I figured if I was going to update it now would be the time. I also have an X5680 that's coming on Monday for it as well as some additional 10600 memory to run it up to 16 GB. I'll move my SSDs, BluRay and GTX680 over after upgrading the processor and RAM and have a much nicer machine than my current 3,1. All in all I'll have about $550 in the machine when I'm done. Not bad.
MacDann
I have attached pictures below for your consideration. Needless to say, I would definitely order a "fair" condition machine from OWC again.
As an aside, I have already applied the 5,1 firmware update as well as the firmware updates through High Sierra. I'm not sure I'll update this machine to Mojave, but I figured if I was going to update it now would be the time. I also have an X5680 that's coming on Monday for it as well as some additional 10600 memory to run it up to 16 GB. I'll move my SSDs, BluRay and GTX680 over after upgrading the processor and RAM and have a much nicer machine than my current 3,1. All in all I'll have about $550 in the machine when I'm done. Not bad.
MacDann
Once you install the 5680, you might find that your newly ordered "1066" RAM is actually 1333 RAM... this happened to me and several other folks I know. As i recall (it's been a while), you may need to do an SMC and/or NVRAM reset to make this transformation occur. You may also need to remove any old RAM that really IS 1066.
Thanks for pointing that out. I've had the case open to get a general look at things, but didn't pull the tray.
I wasn't planning on utilizing the old RAM unless it was 1333, so it would get pulled out when I upgrade anyway.
MacDann
One cannot purchase a factory-new X56xx from eBay for USD 50 . . . viable options are priceless, Brother
Regards, splifingate
Which is why I said:One cannot purchase a factory-new X56xx from eBay for USD 50 . . . viable options are priceless, Brother
Regards, splifingate
"Unless someone has a requirement for a new processor I can't see paying $269 for something I can pick up from eBay for $50."
IMO it's highly unlikely anyone on this forum performing this CPU swap has a requirement for a new processor.
Agreed. Again, I've always had good experiences with anything I've purchased from OWC over the years, but this was the first (used) system I've purchased from them. If their grading system is consistent with what I got for a machine described as "fair" then I would certainly consider them in the future for any used equipment purchases.
MacDann
Follow up to this thread....
After I had the cMP for a week, I went to fire it up and - nothing. Got a light, no chime, nada. Pulled everything out with the exception of the CPU tray and still nothing, no bad diagnostic LEDs, nothing.
Contacted OWC that day. Got an RMA, returned the cMP. It arrived at OWC on a Friday and the replacement shipped out the next Monday. Received a new machine in even better cosmetic condition! They swapped the hard drive from the old machine so everything was intact. And - it has two optical drives, not one. Not a big deal, but sort of a nice surprise.
One strike on this, however. They sent a replacement cMP with no WiFi card, which was part of the original spec. I called them about this and they sent out a WiFi card with the installation kit for me to install.
While there have been some bumps in the road, OWC has stood behind the product and warranty and responded promptly to the issues when they've come up. No one is perfect, and my point of reference isn't the goof ups but how they're dealt with, and for that OWC has exceeded my expectations throughout the experience.
MacDann
After I had the cMP for a week, I went to fire it up and - nothing. Got a light, no chime, nada. Pulled everything out with the exception of the CPU tray and still nothing, no bad diagnostic LEDs, nothing.
Contacted OWC that day. Got an RMA, returned the cMP. It arrived at OWC on a Friday and the replacement shipped out the next Monday. Received a new machine in even better cosmetic condition! They swapped the hard drive from the old machine so everything was intact. And - it has two optical drives, not one. Not a big deal, but sort of a nice surprise.
One strike on this, however. They sent a replacement cMP with no WiFi card, which was part of the original spec. I called them about this and they sent out a WiFi card with the installation kit for me to install.
While there have been some bumps in the road, OWC has stood behind the product and warranty and responded promptly to the issues when they've come up. No one is perfect, and my point of reference isn't the goof ups but how they're dealt with, and for that OWC has exceeded my expectations throughout the experience.
MacDann
I've purchased 2 MacPro's from OWC in the past and also have had excellent service.
Also, you'll never find better shipping costs.
Some years back I purchased a G5 Quad from a source in California and the shipping alone was over a $100, not so for OWC which in each case was less then $15.
Maybe it's just me, but installing a wifi card in these Mac Pro's was one of the most frustrating procedures I've encountered in any computer upgrade. It requires patience and finger dexterity. The antenna connectors are easily damaged, so just the right amount of force is needed. Then there's the tiny screws... a magnetized screw driver is a must. Take your time and it'll work out.
I've done them before, so I know what you're talking about. The edge connector/header arrangement on the cars isn't bad at all, but getting the antenna connectors on can be a real PITA.
MacDann