So I’m still trying to get this
You’re saying a 8gb m2 will be better than a 16gb m1?
I just don’t get how I can go from a 2014mbp with 8gb, struggling along with 2gb in swap a lot of the time, to 8gb in an m2?
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Video Comparison: M1 MacBook Air vs. M2 MacBook Air
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You’re saying a 8gb m2 will be better than a 16gb m1?
I just don’t get how I can go from a 2014mbp with 8gb, struggling along with 2gb in swap a lot of the time, to 8gb in an m2?
Are we flogging a dead horse here now?
The specs are the specs.
Count the green backs in your wallet. That is the controlling item in this thread. One has never been wrong going with the better specs if the green backs can cover the expense.
The base model M2 MBAir has a single SSD and the next model up has twin parallel SSDs which are faster. Nothing to argue here.
If one does not like Apple's policy, then buy another brand.
Upgrades to memory and storage from base model have always improved performance. Check the OWC adds from the 90s onwards.
Back in the day, we could swap out OEM memory and drives for less cost from other vendors. That choice is gone now due to Apple's desire to make more money and that the newer and much faster equipment has electronic requirements that need fixed components that don't vibrate or or corrode over time or are the wrong specifications.
Old saying: What is, is. And what I think about it does not change the reality.
So we pay to play faster. It is really very simple.
The specs are the specs.
Count the green backs in your wallet. That is the controlling item in this thread. One has never been wrong going with the better specs if the green backs can cover the expense.
The base model M2 MBAir has a single SSD and the next model up has twin parallel SSDs which are faster. Nothing to argue here.
If one does not like Apple's policy, then buy another brand.
Upgrades to memory and storage from base model have always improved performance. Check the OWC adds from the 90s onwards.
Back in the day, we could swap out OEM memory and drives for less cost from other vendors. That choice is gone now due to Apple's desire to make more money and that the newer and much faster equipment has electronic requirements that need fixed components that don't vibrate or or corrode over time or are the wrong specifications.
Old saying: What is, is. And what I think about it does not change the reality.
So we pay to play faster. It is really very simple.
Depending on your use case, absolutely. Most people do not need 16GB on their M version Mac. If you’re crunching video, the M2 with 8GB will smash the 16GB M1. I bought the 16GB because I figured for large exports of images from Lightroom, I’d notice a difference. Apparently it’s barely noticeable. <5% slower.
I went from a 2014 15” MBPro with 8GB and boy, was it a game changer. I tend to over shoot what I need and got the 16GB, but I didn’t need to. It uses Ram differently to the old Intels.
The only use case I can think of where it’d benefit, is if you have 100 Chrome Tabs open (which is a massive Ram hog). Even then, it’d still be fine!
Sure, and one also gets last generation's chip technology, which is quite good. Personally, however, I will always pay $200 more to be 18 months farther along on the chip design engineering/build curve (unless of course v2 turned out flawed, which reviews show that it is not).
Interesting,
Perhaps I will still give the M2 base a whirl then 😑
Was Just of the understanding that 8gb not useful in this day & age 😶
Hmm.
(I’m a mere office user that likes to have multiple desktops and switch between a lot of diff things, MS teams crawls on my old MacBook and I lose a lot of time in some of the ms office apps.. figured I’d blame the 8gb from 2014…)
2011 top MBPs were 4 GB; 2016 top MBPs were 16 GB; 2022 top MBPs are 64 GB and that trend has been continuing since day one of personal computing - as have memory bandwidth improvements. Applications/usages have similarly trended to more-more-more over time.
No one should buy a new box based on what they were doing last year. Next year's apps and usages will be built to take advantage of more RAM, more memory bandwidth, faster SSD speeds and improved throughput. There will forever be significant benefits to being 18 months farther along on the chip design engineering/build curve by choosing M2 over M1; also by not scrimping on RAM.
Just my $0.02.
Edit: You mention MS Teams. Anyone running anything from MS needs to specifically verify how those things work with any new non-Win box before buying.
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Yeah, 8 is heaps is plenty for almost everyone. Remember that all Airs have the problem that you cannot use 2 external monitors (without a hack). One is fine (which is what I use), but you need a MBPro for dual.
Clearly the world is and has been evolving toward taking advantage of more and more RAM. Low-end usages might always be fine with less RAM but since we buy boxes for the next 3-5 years (not for yesterday) choosing more than minimal RAM is perhaps appropriate for many buyers.
What apps do you use that will not work as efficiently with 8GB than with 16GB? As I said, traditionally, Lightroom runs considerably better with more ram, but the reality, once Adobe optimised it for the M1, there is very little discernible difference. Its been shown it’s <5% with 100 files of 50MB each. so we’re talking a 2:30 export versus 2:45 or thereabouts. And that is traditionally a ram hungry app.
So in theory (historically), you could be right, but in practice, you are wrong.
Ok so we're saying the 8GB from 2014 are a lot less effective than the 8GB from now - therefore I can survive without going to 16gb?
I dont have endless money to sink into stuff so really I am stuck w decision of enjoying a 16gb M1, or a stock M2.
The M1 is taking forever in the mail, but I might just open it, give it a whirl, and then return it to try an M2 8gb..?
I just am at a loss how using 8GB basically 8 years later, is somehow meant to work better - especially when everyones freaking out about the swap (And endless articles about how you dont buy the base and should do either 16GB M1 or 512 M1, all of which are out of reach for me)
And yes the only reason getting M1 frustrates me is cause it technically 2 years old, and missing newest stuff (screen/sound), and will lose support for MacOS prob a year or two sooner too..right..
Why can't these decisions just be easy?
I dont have endless money to sink into stuff so really I am stuck w decision of enjoying a 16gb M1, or a stock M2.
The M1 is taking forever in the mail, but I might just open it, give it a whirl, and then return it to try an M2 8gb..?
I just am at a loss how using 8GB basically 8 years later, is somehow meant to work better - especially when everyones freaking out about the swap (And endless articles about how you dont buy the base and should do either 16GB M1 or 512 M1, all of which are out of reach for me)
And yes the only reason getting M1 frustrates me is cause it technically 2 years old, and missing newest stuff (screen/sound), and will lose support for MacOS prob a year or two sooner too..right..
Why can't these decisions just be easy?
One person suggested that new RAM is better so one needs less. Personally I disagree. Over time computers do get faster in many ways (memory bandwidth and SSD speeds being biggies) but the fact is that RAM has consistently increased over time. Suggesting the opposite is IMO foolish when companies like Apple are now offering 64 GB in laptops when they maxed out at 16 GB just two years ago. I suspect that Apple sees some imminent new usages (AR perhaps) that will like lots of RAM, but I do not know.
Personally I would always pick the newer generation box unless the savings are a lot more than $200-$300.
Personally I would always pick the newer generation box unless the savings are a lot more than $200-$300.
Don't take my word for it. Check out this Max Tech video, which is all about the Ram. Some people are stuck in this x86 Ram perception.
You misunderstand my commentary. Like I said: Over time computers do get faster in many ways. As we shifted from HDDs to SSDs, for instance, any given amount of RAM became more effective, because paging to memory took less time. It was very obvious in RAM-hungry Photoshop. Despite that dramatic improvement apps/computers/workflows continued to evolve to use more RAM, not less.
My point was not that M-series RAM interoperation is not better than x86; of course it is. My point is that even with such improvements, apps/computers/workflows will continue to evolve to use more RAM, not less.
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I think I am definitely going to get an M1 MacBook Air, I think it’s a much sexier machine too then the M2 and the notch is god awful
The notch is pretty nice actually imo. I was hesitant about it but on the balance it gives you a bit more useable space.
I understand what you’re saying. Historically that has been the case. My point was that the way RAM is used in conjunction with the GPU, Swap File and the RAM itself has changed with this SOC. Because of its proximity in the SOC, it is able to function with other memory to effectively create an amount higher, or more useful than its core 8 or 16 GB. It probably sounds weird, but it uses memory like a Subaru uses it’s drive train sharing what it needs, when and importantly, where it needs over the 4 wheels, whilst using the same power.
And as to your main point of evolving to use more RAM over time. It's too early to tell, but it hasnt shown this evolution in the 2 years since the M1 has been released. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. 🤷🏻♂️ It’s an easy call to make, but it hasn’t happened yet as far as I know.
You can’t go wrong with the M1. I have no desire to upgrade mine excepting I like the new form factor for travelling.
Speaking of form, I like the form factor of the M2 much more than my M1. It feels better in hand and appears to also balance better than the M1.
Certainly very few folks who already own one can really justify upgrading an M1 to M2. However IMO folks who do not already own an M1 MBP buying a new box should generally choose M2 over M1 unless some unusually good deal (more than $200-300) presents to justify the older M1 tech.
But IMO it is not too early to tell if the personal computer world is evolving to use more RAM over time. The trend is unequivocal. Just look at Apple's MBP offerings: 2011 4GB, 2016 16 GB, 2020 64 GB. Or look at the 2022 Studio with base level at 32 GB RAM, configurable to 128 GB. Apple does not build those capabilities into their new boxes without understanding where things are going.
FIW: My 2021 M1 13" MBAir is sitting on top of my 2021 14" MBPro M1 Max. The Max looks to be about ⅜" wider and a ¼" taller. So the screen size is slightly bigger on the 14 because the borders are smaller than the wider borders on the 13.
I think the 14 is the replacement 13 for the new Pro series MBPros.
I think the 14 is the replacement 13 for the new Pro series MBPros.
I think you hit on a key point. M-Series chips are changing things; just look at how strong Apple's lowest-end laptop the M2 MBA is now. And the high end M2 MBPs (let alone the Mac Pro) have not even been announced yet.
All that efficient power on SOC means we should expect a new layout of segmented products, the awesome Mac Studio being partial proof. The Studio is so good it has me enthusiastically waiting to see what the M2 MBPs look like and how the M2 products affect my personal needs.
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I guess it depends on exactly what you’re doing in IT and what use cases those laptops are being used for. I’ve worked with people in IT and I’ve seen multiple laptops damaged that way. If you’re in an environment where the laptop never leaves the desk then it’s probably set up where the cord is safely tucked away. I’ve never seen one that was set up like that get damaged from being knocked off the desk. It’s usually in some sort of mobile environment where the laptop was charging on a coffee table or something and gets flung off. When I had my MacBook Pro back in the day the same thing would’ve happened to it if it wasn’t for MagSafe. People being careless and not watching for the cord. Of course I’ve seen more laptops damaged by beverages.
In what way is it different ? I am looking for this answer everywhere.
I don't like my M1 MBA keyboard. I find that the keys are too stiff and clicky and it tend to cause me wrist pain if I type on it too long. I have to use an external keyboard. I miss my 2015 MbA keyboard. Why did Apple went from having the best keyboards, to the worst (butterfly) to just ok ones (M1). I hope the M2 is better as you say, but please explain how you feel the difference.