Vodafone Gets Restraining Order On T-Mobile's iPhone Sales

[GregA]

You have competition law that stops certain kinds of takeover.. whether it works or not I'm not really qualified.

I think they won't allow it if there's "a substantial lessening of competition". However, that definition seems to be stuck on having at least 2 major providers.

OTOH You can't currently stop a company becoming bigger and bigger until it starts to control the market rather than competing within it. eg. Tesco, Microsoft.

Yeah I'm not sure how AT&T was split, or other similar events. But it's rare and only used in the extreme.

The french model where the government basically owns and controlls the largest companies is one way I guess, and it seems to work for them. The other way is strong consumer protection laws to stop the largest companies abusing their position (as long as it's not the UK where we have the laws but 90% of the country is ignorant of their own rights and the regulators are toothless anyway).

Yeah... I guess these are alternatives, though neither is competition. They are just methods for the government to attempt control of important companies. Ah well

 

[Padraig]

nope - im saying the device is only as cheap to initially buy BECAUSE of subsequent profits from the carriers.
And if they didnt take this profit, the iphone would be incredibly expensive to initially purchase, which could price them out of the market.

That large slick screen, powerful processor, elegant design, and world beating OS does not grow on trees.

220 dollars in parts according to a teardown. I'm not sure how Apple cost accounting works in regard to development, but I think it's safe to say that they are making out fine from the purchase price alone.

 

[gifford]

The other way is strong consumer protection laws to stop the largest companies abusing their position (as long as it's not the UK where we have the laws but 90% of the country is ignorant of their own rights and the regulators are toothless anyway).

hence why our economy is doing so well. too much regulation leads to a crappy economy. Only when there is a monopoly should the government intervene, and Apple is far from a monopoly, I think many on here are oblivious to what a true monopoly is.

IMO apple should be free to choose which carrier it wants, those shouting "free the iPhone" are shooting themselves in the foot. But are too narrow minded to realize

 

[Manic Mouse]

1. Apple has not allowed the iPhone to be branded by it's carrier partners.

2. Apple has not allowed it's carrier partners to dictate how the iPhone software should work.

3. Apple is (IMHO rightly) getting a chunk of the data plan revenues, since the data is being accessed over the device they created. I akin it to a record company getting paid for having their songs sold on iTunes.

These are not anti-choice, anti-consumer decisions. Why are you defending the carriers in this case?

Rubbish. The iPhone is the most locked down, expensive and customer unfriendly phone ever made.

Apple does NOT deserve a single penny of the monthly revenues "because it's passing through their device". I've never head anything more insane in my life. Do Apple deserve a cut of your internet fee because you use a Mac? The phone plan has nothing to do with Apple, they contribute NOTHING to it yet are getting paid for it. They make the hardware (which you pay them for) and O2 (or whoever) provide the service which you pay for. That's it. They're just being greedy and guess who's paying? The customers with the rip-off iPhone contracts to line Steve Job's pockets. Why Apple should be getting money for nothing is beyond me.

I love Apple products to death, and I think the iPhone is an amazing piece of kit, however the way Apple have handled it has shown a very dark side to them. One that is quite prepared to screw over their customers for a buck.

Oh and O2 doesn't brand it's phones like Voda or Orange.

 

[luke-j-s]

hence why our economy is doing so well. too much regulation leads to a crappy economy. Only when there is a monopoly should the government intervene, and Apple is far from a monopoly, I think many on here are oblivious to what a true monopoly is.

IMO apple should be free to choose which carrier it wants, those shouting "free the iPhone" are shooting themselves in the foot. But are too narrow minded to realize

i totally agree

 

[TonyHoyle]

Apple took a gamble.. they could have released the iphone and had it bomb completely.. sell fewer than the Newton So they worked out their cost plans based on recovering the development costs as fast as possible (I reckon within a year). So their idea of getting kickbacks off the operator is fairly understandable, if unusual.

Of course now they know that it isn't going to bomb.. sales are going very well. That means they can take a longer view. If they're forced to unlock it in europe well all the better.. they just opened up a market of 100 million people with no effort on their part.. and they can say to AT&T/O2 "Sorry, the nasty EU made us do it!" And you can bet that their contracts have getout clauses just in case of this eventuality.

So apple are happy however it goes. O2, Tmobile and AT&T.. probably not so happy.

Funnily enough my boss (who's real suit and talks about cost centres etc. all the time) said pretty much the above over 2 months ago. It's inconceivable that apple don't have a plan.

 

[superleccy]

220 dollars in parts according to a teardown. I'm not sure how Apple cost accounting works in regard to development, but I think it's safe to say that they are making out fine from the purchase price alone.

Yep, development. Plus (in no particular order) research, design, manufacture, logistics, sourcing, support chain, testing, regulatory compliance, legal issues, secrecy, SJ's expense tab, marketing, marketing and more marketing...

I bet Apple are only just beginning to make a dent in their overheads on the iPhone.

SL

 

[Manic Mouse]

hence why our economy is doing so well. too much regulation leads to a crappy economy. Only when there is a monopoly should the government intervene, and Apple is far from a monopoly, I think many on here are oblivious to what a true monopoly is.

IMO apple should be free to choose which carrier it wants, those shouting "free the iPhone" are shooting themselves in the foot. But are too narrow minded to realize

Of course the REAL reason the UK and US economy are doing so "well" is because both countries are MASSIVELY in debt. In fact the US has the most debt of any country in the world with the UK not far behind.

 

[Padraig]

Yep, development. Plus (in no particular order) research, design, manufacture, logistics, sourcing, support chain, testing, regulatory compliance, legal issues, secrecy, SJ's expense tab, marketing, marketing and more marketing...

I bet Apple are only just beginning to make a dent in their overheads on the iPhone.

SL

You've no idea how cost accounting works. Do you really think all that is going to be set against the iPhones price.

edit. Just for clarification i'm not a management accountant but a financial accountant (Still in training at that). But I did have to sit a good few exams in college on cost accounting.

 

[TonyHoyle]

Of course the REAL reason the UK and US economy are doing so "well" is because both countries are MASSIVELY in debt. In fact the US has the most debt of any country in the world with the UK not far behind.

The US economy is doing well? When did that happen?

 

[xenotaku]

apple has no chance of pulling the crap they pull here over in europe. People have choice in europe and companies don't have the ridiculous control over there as they do here. Apple will continue to make money on the devices, but expect everyone and anyone to be using any carrier they want in due time. America, and our archaic phone service is the only country that such a deal could work.

 

[gifford]

Of course the REAL reason the UK and US economy are doing so "well" is because both countries are MASSIVELY in debt. In fact the US has the most debt of any country in the world with the UK not far behind.

But thats not really true though is it.

 

[xenotaku]

hence why our economy is doing so well. too much regulation leads to a crappy economy. Only when there is a monopoly should the government intervene, and Apple is far from a monopoly, I think many on here are oblivious to what a true monopoly is.

IMO apple should be free to choose which carrier it wants, those shouting "free the iPhone" are shooting themselves in the foot. But are too narrow minded to realize

------
While I agree with you on the point that most people don't understand what a monopoly is, your assessment of why our country seems to be powerful and the role regulation plays on that is inane.

Regulation is bad? Do you want to go back to when people were payed nothing? When they worked 14 hour days? When kids were employed? When companies could coerce together to rip off the customer? Or when a factory could pollute as much as it wanted? And our economy is doing well because our country is massively in debt, oblivious to our weakening dollar, and subsidizing every failing market in our country.

 

[sjo]

hence why our economy is doing so well. too much regulation leads to a crappy economy. Only when there is a monopoly should the government intervene, and Apple is far from a monopoly, I think many on here are oblivious to what a true monopoly is.

IMO apple should be free to choose which carrier it wants, those shouting "free the iPhone" are shooting themselves in the foot. But are too narrow minded to realize

be "our" i suppose you mean the us economy? if it's doing so well why the heck is the currency on freefall?

 

[Manic Mouse]

But thats not really true though is it.

I remember an article I read that had the US as the country most in debt, but I have no idea where to find it (I could be totally wrong).

But the US is pretty badly in debt:

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

 

[sjo]

Imagine if Consumer ABC purchased an iPhone for use on Provider XYZ's network. Who does the consumer call for help with the product? Obviously XYZ won't have the technical expertise to support Apple's phone, so the consumer contacts Apple. Now Apple tries to help the consumer get the phone working on XYZ's network. The overall experience would be akin to today's Windows world... a mess. By choosing one partner, they can focus their efforts and train their staff accordingly, and the consumer's experience should be much better as a result. That's a big piece of the motivation behind this arrangement.

Remember that Apple may have created a piece of kit that has blown every other phone out of the water, but Apple is still a baby in this industry. It would've been a mistake for them to try and bite off more than they could chew. Their strategy plan is obviously spread out over the 5-year agreement they have with AT&T, and at the end of it, they'll be in a much better position to expand their offerings.

Nonetheless, I say keep the pressure on Apple. They may be new in the industry, but they are very good at what they do, and will quickly adapt to whatever changes need to be made to keep their offerings ahead of the competition on many levels.

this is just crap. the gsm standard has been around for 15 years. it's tried technology and just works. you could just as well claim that you can't plug french macbook to the german electricity network because there might be some support problems caused by the different networks. or you can't drive a ford on spanish roads because providing support for such an adventure would just be too expensive.

 

[TonyHoyle]

I remember an article I read that had the US as the country most in debt, but I have no idea where to find it (I could be totally wrong).

But the US is pretty badly in debt:

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Whilst I agree the US is badly in debt such numbers although large aren't useful. National debt is not meaningful unless it's expressed as a percentage of GDP (or some other country specific scaling factor).

If the economic output of the country goes up, GDP goes up. National debt stays the same but as a percentage of GDP it falls.. so the country is in less debt (relatively speaking).

See http://zfacts.com/p/318.html (random site from google and looks a little slanted.. assume the graphs are right though).

 

[TonyHoyle]

I remember an article I read that had the US as the country most in debt, but I have no idea where to find it (I could be totally wrong).

But the US is pretty badly in debt:

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Whilst I agree the US is badly in debt such numbers although large aren't useful. National debt is not meaningful unless it's expressed as a percentage of GDP (or some other country specific scaling factor).

If the economic output of the country goes up, GDP goes up. National debt stays the same but as a percentage of GDP it falls.. so the country is in less debt (relatively speaking).

See http://zfacts.com/p/318.html (random site from google and looks a little slanted.. assume the graphs are right though).

For comparison the UK national debt is at about 42.6% of GDP.

 

[superleccy]

You've no idea how cost accounting works.

Thanks for letting me know.

Do you really think all that is going to be set against the iPhones price.

Of course, it all went in SJ's Black Amex card. Silly me.

SL

 

[Phil A.]

nope - im saying the device is only as cheap to initially buy BECAUSE of subsequent profits from the carriers.
And if they didnt take this profit, the iphone would be incredibly expensive to initially purchase, which could price them out of the market.

That large slick screen, powerful processor, elegant design, and world beating OS does not grow on trees.

How do you account for the iPod touch which shares the same screen, OS, elegant design and processor and lacks only a phone chip, speaker and microsophone and sells for $100 less than the iPhone? looking at the relative prices of the ipt and iPhone, I'd say there is little, if any, subsidising of the iPhone price

 

[gifford]

be "our" i suppose you mean the us economy? if it's doing so well why the heck is the currency on freefall?

no, i meant UK. I was talking to a felow brit at the time.

 

[fr33 loader]

All this whining will eventually stop when and if Apple just totally pull iPhone out of Germany. Problem solved for Germany and Apple. And you think the consumers won?

 

[gifford]

I remember an article I read that had the US as the country most in debt, but I have no idea where to find it (I could be totally wrong).

But the US is pretty badly in debt:

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

i agree that the US is in debt, it's just i disagree as to that being the reason why the US & UK economies were doing well(as someone suggested earlier).

 

[gifford]

How do you account for the iPod touch which shares the same screen, OS, elegant design and processor and lacks only a phone chip, speaker and microsophone and sells for $100 less than the iPhone? looking at the relative prices of the ipt and iPhone, I'd say there is little, if any, subsidising of the iPhone price

they sell lots of songs, games, movies, and tv shows. the device has to jump through less hoops to market(i wander what the legal bill is for iPhone! and ongoing as we speak).

I dont suggest the iPhone is massively subsidised, but im suspecting it is to some degree. pretty much any increase would put it out of many peoples price range. as it is already considered an expensive gadget.

 

[EagerDragon]

Clearly the law in germany is clear enough, otherwise the judge wouldn't have issued the orders he did (firstly stopping sales, then amending it only allowing sales of unlocked phones).

Is the above an assumption on your part or the facts based on reading the law?

Judges have been wrong before and some are in the pocket of the opposition, until I see a reading of the law, I reserve who is right or wrong.

I like to see what is the markup in France for the unlocked phones. Lets see the prices side by side. BTW vodaphone is doing this to protect their market share, not to obey the law. They were ready to do the same, just they did not get the contract, so they are bull-******** people.