I really don't think they can kill the MP outright, for the simple reasons that Apple needs workstations internally for their own engineers etc to develop products etc. There is no way that Apple is going to run Windows workstations internally and not all software is available for Linux. So, inside Apple there is a very real need for a workstation class Mac. The MacBook Pro, iMac and iPad Pro are not going to cut it leaving only the MP. Apple will drag their feet and eventually deliver a watered down model that will be crippled for the sake of design, but it will come. Some day.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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Aren't they capable to have macOS adjusted, any time they want, for whatever third party hardware? as long as these systems have been built using components with "intel inside" it's very easy for them...
If we can built stable hackintoshes, aren't they too, in a more elegant way?
Of course in common view they will have iMacs, as there is not anything else left...
Personally i don't think Mac Pro is SO outdated. Of course the internal specs are super-obsolete in the Workstation PC market. And today there's no reason to buy a New MP for no reason, if they don't at least cut the price half. But the concept of nMP is completely different to what every professional means.
The 13 Pro model is a modular machine. That is what Apple wanted it to be. Cupertino didn't mean to use and abuse the internal capacity of the machine, they wanted to exploit the possibilities of the computer: you can upload just the CPU, and please do no tell me that a 12 core v2 Xeon is not enough, because it is. 12 cores are unnecessary to the "Pro" market Apple targets with Mac Pro: artists and engineers in the multimedia world. The amount of plugin is it possible to open, used, being stable with Pro Tools even without DSPs is ridicolous. I'd say overkill. And the number of effects you can load is phenomenal even without accellerators. Also, 6 TB2 ports means 36 different devices. Do not complain on the D300. You can buy an eGPU and refresh it as many time as you want. You can slam as much GPUs you do need. Internal storage? Do you really save files on a SSD? Come on, we all have at least a Portable Hard Drive. And with 200 bucks you can build a NAS. The whole apparatus of Desktop PC is in decline. Do not tell nobody, but buying a 15' rMBP 2015 version is still way better than buying a new 13' nrMBP. That is not because the old is better, is because we are not so used to Thunderbolt nowadays, still too much expensive, still unexploited.
And the nMP has TB. In my honest opinion, if i have to buy a finished workstation today, i'd still buy a nMP over ALL the competition. As i write the post, i am looking at the HPZ840 and, yes, for 4400 dollars they offer a 1TB 7200RPM HDD.
Buy the 4-cores model, a new CPU and eGPU and, that's it.
Not saying that an update is unrequired, matter of fact it is, but do not compare assembling your own pc compared to buying a finished one. It is like comparing a DIY scarf to a retail scarf. Little unfair comparison, isn't it?
The 13 Pro model is a modular machine. That is what Apple wanted it to be. Cupertino didn't mean to use and abuse the internal capacity of the machine, they wanted to exploit the possibilities of the computer: you can upload just the CPU, and please do no tell me that a 12 core v2 Xeon is not enough, because it is. 12 cores are unnecessary to the "Pro" market Apple targets with Mac Pro: artists and engineers in the multimedia world. The amount of plugin is it possible to open, used, being stable with Pro Tools even without DSPs is ridicolous. I'd say overkill. And the number of effects you can load is phenomenal even without accellerators. Also, 6 TB2 ports means 36 different devices. Do not complain on the D300. You can buy an eGPU and refresh it as many time as you want. You can slam as much GPUs you do need. Internal storage? Do you really save files on a SSD? Come on, we all have at least a Portable Hard Drive. And with 200 bucks you can build a NAS. The whole apparatus of Desktop PC is in decline. Do not tell nobody, but buying a 15' rMBP 2015 version is still way better than buying a new 13' nrMBP. That is not because the old is better, is because we are not so used to Thunderbolt nowadays, still too much expensive, still unexploited.
And the nMP has TB. In my honest opinion, if i have to buy a finished workstation today, i'd still buy a nMP over ALL the competition. As i write the post, i am looking at the HPZ840 and, yes, for 4400 dollars they offer a 1TB 7200RPM HDD.
Buy the 4-cores model, a new CPU and eGPU and, that's it.
Not saying that an update is unrequired, matter of fact it is, but do not compare assembling your own pc compared to buying a finished one. It is like comparing a DIY scarf to a retail scarf. Little unfair comparison, isn't it?
Where can we buy a one? We have been waiting for these eGPUs for years...
Do you know a couple of them to choose from?
Of course, at first, there must be, a fully supported - commercial one, even one, and then we will be able to "slam" as much needed...
And 640KB of RAM is all everyone will ever need...right? If you don't understand why the Mac Pro is considered outdated or why 12 cores is insufficient then you're not the target market for anything more than what the Mac Pro currently offers. However there are people who require more and they're upset because Apple is no longer offering products to meet their needs. The qualifier you put on there, "targets with Mac Pro", is what has many people upset. They understand Apple is not targeting them which means they'll likely have to settle with underspec'd systems or move to an alternative platform.
I just read a nice piece about Apple and the "pro" market over at pro-tools-expert.com, so I thought you guys might be interested as well. They even refer to MR so here's an excerpt:
The Reaction To The New MacBook Pro - You May Need To Move To Stage 5
[...]
Having seen the recent release of Final Cut X 10.3 I can say with assurance that Apple still cares about attracting and equipping the creative community with useful tools. But I think Apple has a different view of who these people are, it sees the changing practices of many creative professionals and is trying to make the next generation of computers to meet the needs of some of them. Note I said some of them - Apple is making a calculated decision which does not include everyone, even some of it's customers who have been faithfully using a Mac for decades.
If you are looking at the new generation of computers like a MacBook Pro or the Microsoft Surface Studio and are wondering how in the hell you attach your HDX cards, that's as silly as someone looking at the Model T Ford and wondering where you attach your horse. There are two questions to ask in this dilemma and it's only fair if we also ask if our DSP card audio system is still the best way to record audio. As technology evolves we have to face the fact that either we stick with what we know works or make some changes to accommodate the change. This is the story of technological change (good and bad) we've been here so many times before we should all be used to it by now. I don't have the space to list all the things I bought that were superseded in the several decades I've been doing this, but if anyone can open a few ZIP drives that I have I'd appreciate that. My loft is full of old technologies that were once declared the future and are now long forgotten.
Many of the recent complaints about the MacBook Pro from the creative community come down to the fact that we want Apple to make us a MacBook Niche, one aimed at the professional creative community.
Do I think Apple got the new MacBook Pro right? I'm not sure, some of their decisions seem a little odd but only time will tell but early data suggest someone thinks they have done a good job. According to Mac Rumors
"Slice Intelligence says the new MacBook Pro accumulated more revenue from online orders during its first five days of availability than the Microsoft Surface Book, ASUS Chromebook Flip, Dell Inspiron 2-in-1, and Lenovo Yoga 900, based on e-receipt data from 12,979 online shoppers in the United States.The new MacBook Pro generated over seven times the revenue that the 12-inch MacBook did over its first five days of availability, according to Slice Intelligence. If accurate, that means it took the new MacBook Pro just five days to accumulate 78% of all the revenue generated by the 12-inch MacBook since its April 2015 launch."
What I can say is that Apple only have themselves to blame when it comes to the response from the creative community. Apple courted creatives for several decades when building their business, at one point we were almost the only professional sector buying Apple computers, then Apple found a new way to grow their business with the iPhone and other consumer devices. Suddenly the class geek become the school president and the kids who had been faithful friends during his wilderness years are no longer besties, just part of their adoring fan base - That has to hurt.
It's Time To Move To The 5th Stage - Acceptance
Team member Alan Sallabank summed it up so eloquently "What is a "pro" product anyway? Surely any product is only as "pro" as its user?" As a creative I've been using the Mac Pro 'Trashcan' and a MacBook Pro for the last few years to create music and video successfully and with few issues, in fact the biggest issue has been some of the OS releases over the last few years not the hardware. But both of my so called by some 'non pro' Apple computers are helping me run a successful business and making me money. To suggest that Apple's current crop of computers are useless for professionals is untrue - They may not work for every creative professional, they may not suit you, but that's not the same thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...w-macbook-pro-you-may-need-to-move-to-stage-5
The Reaction To The New MacBook Pro - You May Need To Move To Stage 5
[...]
Having seen the recent release of Final Cut X 10.3 I can say with assurance that Apple still cares about attracting and equipping the creative community with useful tools. But I think Apple has a different view of who these people are, it sees the changing practices of many creative professionals and is trying to make the next generation of computers to meet the needs of some of them. Note I said some of them - Apple is making a calculated decision which does not include everyone, even some of it's customers who have been faithfully using a Mac for decades.
If you are looking at the new generation of computers like a MacBook Pro or the Microsoft Surface Studio and are wondering how in the hell you attach your HDX cards, that's as silly as someone looking at the Model T Ford and wondering where you attach your horse. There are two questions to ask in this dilemma and it's only fair if we also ask if our DSP card audio system is still the best way to record audio. As technology evolves we have to face the fact that either we stick with what we know works or make some changes to accommodate the change. This is the story of technological change (good and bad) we've been here so many times before we should all be used to it by now. I don't have the space to list all the things I bought that were superseded in the several decades I've been doing this, but if anyone can open a few ZIP drives that I have I'd appreciate that. My loft is full of old technologies that were once declared the future and are now long forgotten.
Many of the recent complaints about the MacBook Pro from the creative community come down to the fact that we want Apple to make us a MacBook Niche, one aimed at the professional creative community.
Do I think Apple got the new MacBook Pro right? I'm not sure, some of their decisions seem a little odd but only time will tell but early data suggest someone thinks they have done a good job. According to Mac Rumors
"Slice Intelligence says the new MacBook Pro accumulated more revenue from online orders during its first five days of availability than the Microsoft Surface Book, ASUS Chromebook Flip, Dell Inspiron 2-in-1, and Lenovo Yoga 900, based on e-receipt data from 12,979 online shoppers in the United States.The new MacBook Pro generated over seven times the revenue that the 12-inch MacBook did over its first five days of availability, according to Slice Intelligence. If accurate, that means it took the new MacBook Pro just five days to accumulate 78% of all the revenue generated by the 12-inch MacBook since its April 2015 launch."
What I can say is that Apple only have themselves to blame when it comes to the response from the creative community. Apple courted creatives for several decades when building their business, at one point we were almost the only professional sector buying Apple computers, then Apple found a new way to grow their business with the iPhone and other consumer devices. Suddenly the class geek become the school president and the kids who had been faithful friends during his wilderness years are no longer besties, just part of their adoring fan base - That has to hurt.
It's Time To Move To The 5th Stage - Acceptance
Team member Alan Sallabank summed it up so eloquently "What is a "pro" product anyway? Surely any product is only as "pro" as its user?" As a creative I've been using the Mac Pro 'Trashcan' and a MacBook Pro for the last few years to create music and video successfully and with few issues, in fact the biggest issue has been some of the OS releases over the last few years not the hardware. But both of my so called by some 'non pro' Apple computers are helping me run a successful business and making me money. To suggest that Apple's current crop of computers are useless for professionals is untrue - They may not work for every creative professional, they may not suit you, but that's not the same thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/hom...w-macbook-pro-you-may-need-to-move-to-stage-5
I'm not really sure this is anything to brag about:
- The referenced PC's are all available at lower price points. For example the ASUS Chromebook Flip has a selling price averaging about $250. The MacBook Pro has a starting price of $1,500...six times as much.
- The MacBook is, IMO, a niche system which is expensive for what it offers and has the MBA, which costs less, as a direct competitor.
Personally I think the new MacBook Pro is a nice system. But it could have retained a USB-A port or two in order to permit a transition to the new.
A good article. It's annoying that when people talk about "pro" hardware it's never the same thing to any one person. Frankly if your definition of pro was thick laptops with tons of ports I'm not sure why you are *ever* using a Macbook Pro, they were never the beefiest or most connectible laptops on the market. Likewise even the classic Mac Pro, though more expandable than the nMP, was "small" compared to the massive workstations you could get from other vendors. If your priority was maintaining a decade of legacy hardware, from tape decks to SCSI RAIDS to whatever, Macs have never been your best bet.
Veezer, they went pretty easy on you!! - and portable hard drives + $200 NAS
- thanks for the chuckles.Sorry, but I couldn't find a Sonnet product, perhaps it is about a diy project?
About BiZon.. still an experiment... see their compatibility list, or google, it's full of issues, another half baked product.
https://support.bizon-tech.com/hc/en-us/articles/210709789-Mac-compatibility-list
Also a plain box (akitio made?) is just 600$, with a 970 cpu it's over 1000$, a little bit expensive for what it is...
So nothing to worry about,
friendly...
Pro should be regarded as a marketing term. Just consider the fact that in the early days we had to use PowerBooks and PowerMacs or even just Quadras. I can't believe how unprofessional we have been using these machines with a complete lack of "Pro" label in their names. ;-)
The objections I see voiced about the nMP are not that it is not as expandable as workstations from other vendors. They're along the lines that it's not even close to the expandability of the cMP. I don't see anyone condemning Apple for not releasing the most capable workstation but rather they're disappointed the nMP is almost completely lacking in internal expandability and upgradability. The only internal expansion / upgrade the end user can perform is memory.
To make matters worse Apple hasn't seen fit to upgrade the Mac Pro leaving professional users with the exact same system released almost three years ago. If Apple were at least upgrading the Mac Pro one could at least argue one is able to buy a new one. Apple remove the ability to upgrade the Mac Pro and then they have allowed it to stagnate. At least the ability to upgrade would have given users options while Apple decides what to do with the Mac Pro.
Apple is so archaic and has taken a step backward regarding its PC hardware for professionals. When you have 6/8 core processors (socket 2011-3) that are currently out now and Apple still has the audacity to sell its dinky zeon systems at full price which cant compare when it comes to power, it's all the more reason why 'Pros' should ditch Apple's trashcan paperweight of a machine and settle with a custom configured workstation instead. I remember when it was (an unwritten) standard for all the professionals to 'get an Apple' b/c their line of work had to deal w/ some intense multi-media production (music, film, graphics). Nowadays all of Apple's focus is limited on pricey flimsy gimmicky phones and tablets. Apple's just a mere shell of its former self when it comes to their current PC line up. It's f*****g sad
Apple i think wants to whenever make an update to be almost twice as fast as the predecessor, so i guess until these updates Apple couldnt make some visible improvements. But i think an update for usb-c/tb3+DDR4 Ram+new Xeon chips+the new SSD is coming and Apple will update it at the event for the ipad, imac and mac mini (these 2 also getting a redesign)
I for one have been dragging along on an old MP 3.1 in the office.
Commercial still photographer here, and fortunately we shoot mostly to a MBP... but when it comes to editing 16gb of ram and anemic graphics are painful. A new MBP is on order, and MAYBE just MAYBE 3GB/S will moot the RAM issue + eGPU. Only 4 cores though, come on.
At this point I'm torn, I've been holding off and holding off for a new MP release.
I need anew machine in the office, and patience is thin though.
As I sit and browse eBay looking at the older trashcans, I can't help but wonder about building a hackintosh.
I've done some searching, and haven't really seen anything out there with modern components and Xeon processors. It's all looking like Core chips.
Anyone else considering going down this road??
Commercial still photographer here, and fortunately we shoot mostly to a MBP... but when it comes to editing 16gb of ram and anemic graphics are painful. A new MBP is on order, and MAYBE just MAYBE 3GB/S will moot the RAM issue + eGPU. Only 4 cores though, come on.
At this point I'm torn, I've been holding off and holding off for a new MP release.
I need anew machine in the office, and patience is thin though.
As I sit and browse eBay looking at the older trashcans, I can't help but wonder about building a hackintosh.
I've done some searching, and haven't really seen anything out there with modern components and Xeon processors. It's all looking like Core chips.
Anyone else considering going down this road??
Seems the Darknet from where I watched DNG switched to bitmessage following some strange post at Reddit the guy that control this peculiar insider market opened an accout at reddit.
BTW I cant reach DNG for more info, I´m trying thru this network but seems more exclusive than the previous .onion site.
P.D. search for your self at your own risk
BTW I cant reach DNG for more info, I´m trying thru this network but seems more exclusive than the previous .onion site.
P.D. search for your self at your own risk
"areime" ?
Well, I've already got some upgrades going on.
Plenty of ram, SATA SSD, GTX 680, USB 3, etc.
Sure, not the most up to date, but really my bottleneck at this point is the processors.
Even the simplest things in my daily software (C1 + PS) now peg all cores.
It's basically unusable, so I'm rarely ever maxing out the RAM and VRAM anymore.
... still waiting. I wanted to leave, but when you consider going down the Premiere route, and paying for a subscription every month, the Mac comes across as a bargain with FCPX 10.3. I am going to wait around and continue to produce weddings on a slow 2011 MacBook Pro. Sure, it's a pain to edit with, but editing in proxy makes it bearable. I'm just going to wait and get the next iMac or Mac Pro (whichever comes first). I'm tired of predicting / waiting. If my MacBook Pro dies, then I'll probably opt for the current iMac with 4GB VRAM. Hopefully, there'll be some sort of revolutionary change with the iMac and there's a 'pro' version or an update to the trashcan. Until then, I'm lurking.
Does anyone know if there's a website that could compare my current setup with the current Mac offerings and seeing the benefits of the processor, vram compared to my current MacBook Pro?
Does anyone know if there's a website that could compare my current setup with the current Mac offerings and seeing the benefits of the processor, vram compared to my current MacBook Pro?
No worries. Why no need for Xeons?
I can certainly use more than 4 cores.
And why wouldn't I want ECC RAM, especially when PS relies a ton of it.