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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

FYI: I received a request to retract my blog post and add a note to it:

"We since learned that the people in this airplane were ex-Apple employees. People who started their own company, so that they could design and produce products for Apple customers. They have nothing to do with Apple."

Which I did.
 
Pike R. Alpha said:
FYI: I received a request to retract my blog post and add a note to it:

"We since learned that the people in this airplane were ex-Apple employees. People who started their own company, so that they could design and produce products for Apple customers. They have nothing to do with Apple."

Which I did.
Click to expand...

ok young man that's counterproductive.

Hint #1: $ grep -inr "SSE4.1"
...should I go on?


;):p
 
Maybe Apple get rid with AMD gpu and late begin work with nVidia to adapt theirs new P6000/P5000 to the TC chassis...

I dont think a TDP restriction to be an issue with updating the nMP , the biggest issue is with GPU sources, AMD delays too much to deliver Polaris and Vega, and the latest neither its an compute (fp64) gpu.

Apple could repair the nMP one or two P5000/P6000 GPU, adjust the TC thermal core to handle 800W isn't rocket science (ok is mechanical engineering, but its merely put coefficients into a program and press a key).

Switching to pipes the thermal core could handle even 1200W (increasing fan speed in proportion).

The biggest issue is with Thunderbolt 3, either apple has to switch the available 6 pcie3 lines into: 3 TB3 headers + 1 NVMe, not a big deal since its unlikely all three tb3 headers to be used concurrently.

Another solution is to swith to a single 300W-class GPU and use the remaining 20 PCIe lines to hook 3 TB3 and 2 NVMe -avoiding switches-, and put the MGbt ethernet on the pch's 8 pcie2, and bt-wifi on internal usb. (this is the configuration I'll chose, ditching AMD gpus for good).
 
Mago said:
I dont think a TDP restriction to be an issue with updating the nMP , the biggest issue is with GPU sources, AMD delays too much to deliver Polaris and Vega, and the latest neither its an compute (fp64) gpu.

Apple could repair the nMP one or two P5000/P6000 GPU, adjust the TC thermal core to handle 800W isn't rocket science (ok is mechanical engineering, but its merely put coefficients into a program and press a key).

Switching to pipes the thermal core could handle even 1200W (increasing fan speed in proportion).
Click to expand...

If the mac pro in its current form consumed 800 W it would sound like a leaf blower. Its not possible to dissipate that much energy without a much bigger chassis or with much louder fans. This would make for a poor product.

Mago said:
The biggest issue is with Thunderbolt 3, either apple has to switch the available 6 pcie3 lines into: 3 TB3 headers + 1 NVMe, not a big deal since its unlikely all three tb3 headers to be used concurrently.

Another solution is to swith to a single 300W-class GPU and use the remaining 20 PCIe lines to hook 3 TB3 and 2 NVMe -avoiding switches-, and put the MGbt ethernet on the pch's 8 pcie2, and bt-wifi on internal usb. (this is the configuration I'll chose, ditching AMD gpus for good).
Click to expand...

Apple does have some bandwidth problems given the additional requirements of TB3 and new SSDs. Both AMD and Nvidia have developed some technologies that create direct links between GPUs to alleviate the PCIe requirements that Apple could adopt. They could also just put both GPUs behind a PCIe express splitter that share a single x16 link like AMD does with its dual GPU cards. The Radeon Pro duo effectively does this on a combined ~16 TFLOP card which is probably the ballpark of GPU compute performance for the next mac pro.

They could also just go down to one beefy GPU, but that may be hard to fit into the thermal core type design, where heat is relatively evenly contributed from the 3 sides of the triangle. With one hot GPU they would have to change the thermal core to something more rectangular and would probably reduce the overall exposed heat sink area.
 
Hey Pike
Who tipped you off, the guys on the airplane or Apple? :)

Mago
That's why I still think Apple is waiting on SKL-W and X299.
It's either that or a senseless update (come on, don't kill me here but it would hardly be interesting to have the same IO).
[doublepost=1484844210][/doublepost]Stacc, SKL-W and X299 is the only way to go now.
No GPU lane cutting necessary.
Same x16 each, another x16 left for 3 TB3 controllers and one SSD.
An optional SSD on the PCH, which will now have 20 PCIe 3 lanes, as well as the AC+BT controller and dual 10GbE.
What else could we ever possibly want?
OK, apart from upgradable GPUs that is :)
But this machine would last you for a few years.
[doublepost=1484844412][/doublepost]I guess someone with skills could take both a TBD and a newer LG and rip them apart and put the LG 5K panel inside the TBD and voila.
Of course it's not that simple, some handwork needed, the ports would be different.
Come on Apple, get your act together and make a decent TB3D already.
I want one of those...

Speak of the devil:
https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/19/opinion-apple-display-external-gpu/
 
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ManuelGomes said:
Stacc, SKL-W and X299 is the only way to go now.
No GPU lane cutting necessary.
Same x16 each, another x16 left for 3 TB3 controllers and one SSD.
An optional SSD on the PCH, which will now have 20 PCIe 3 lanes, as well as the AC+BT controller and dual 10GbE.
What else could we ever possibly want?
OK, apart from upgradable GPUs that is :)
But this machine would last you for a few years.
Click to expand...

After diving into this a bit, it seems that skylake-x is rumored to have 44 lanes on the CPU + 4 lanes that go to the PCH. Those 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the PCH share a single DMI 3 path which is essentially 4x PCIe 3. So a skylake-x mac pro could have 2 GPUs, 3 TB3 controllers and a 4x SSD and use all available PCIe lanes.

With Skylake-X rumored to be launching in August and Vega sometime in the middle of the year a WWDC announcement and shipping in the fall could work out pretty well and make for a killer machine.
 
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Stacc said:
After diving into this a bit, it seems that skylake-x is rumored to have 44 lanes on the CPU + 4 lanes that go to the PCH. Those 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the PCH share a single DMI 3 path which is essentially 4x PCIe 3. So a skylake-x mac pro could have 2 GPUs, 3 TB3 controllers and a 4x SSD and use all available PCIe lanes.

With Skylake-X rumored to be launching in August and Vega sometime in the middle of the year a WWDC announcement and shipping in the fall could work out pretty well and make for a killer machine.
Click to expand...


Skylake X is a up to 10 core right? Wouldve thought Apple would use the EP version which is rumored up to32 cores
 
As a Logic user I don't see Apple's recent update to Logic Pro X is evidence of Apple's commitment to a "Pro" desktop Mac. One of the main new features for Logic Pro X 10.3 is for the MacBook Pro Touch Bar and also the Retina display of the MacBook Pro and the iMac. I wouldn't say Logic Pro X is a "Pro" application anymore than any of the several other DAW software offerings on the market. At only $199 it is one of the least expensive DAWs on the market and an inexpensive upgrade for users of GaragBand that feel the need for a full featured DAW. Logic has a training wheels mode when you first open it wth the option to add more advanced fratures. I would think that the great majority of Logic users are using an Apple laptop or an iMac. There also seems to be a pretty significant Hackintosh user base. At one time Logic did cost $999.00 and the Mac Pro was the Apple designated hardware to run it. Now that is just not the case. Logic and it's little brother Garagaband are being developed to generate sales for Apple's most popular Macs and later probably iPads.
 
Stacc said:
After diving into this a bit, it seems that skylake-x is rumored to have 44 lanes on the CPU + 4 lanes that go to the PCH. Those 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the PCH share a single DMI 3 path which is essentially 4x PCIe 3. So a skylake-x mac pro could have 2 GPUs, 3 TB3 controllers and a 4x SSD and use all available PCIe lanes.

With Skylake-X rumored to be launching in August and Vega sometime in the middle of the year a WWDC announcement and shipping in the fall could work out pretty well and make for a killer machine.
Click to expand...
With 2 video cards at full pci-e the leftover pci-e can power 3 TB3 buses and then you have storage, networking, wifi, sound, usb all over the pci-e X4 DMI link.
 
PortableLover said:
Skylake X is a up to 10 core right? Wouldve thought Apple would use the EP version which is rumored up to32 cores
Click to expand...

Reading over some more rumors, it looks like the workstation variant of Skylake-X is Skylake-W. It runs on the Basin Falls platform with 48 lanes of PCIe and is rumored to have up to 28 cores. This is undoubtedly what apple would use.
 
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Right, not -X but -X in the nMP.
-X is the new -E.
Those 48 lanes is just what the doctor ordered, 3 full width TB3 controllers and one SSD.
The rest on the PCH, through DMI3 of course. But you can't have it all.
Once we get to 56 or 64 (like Naples, maybe) all can be on the CPU.
Still, there are no miracles and the CPU still has to deal with it all, switched inside anyway.
 
fastlanephil said:
As a Logic user I don't see Apple's recent update to Logic Pro X is evidence of Apple's commitment to a "Pro" desktop Mac. One of the main new features for Logic Pro X 10.3 is for the MacBook Pro Touch Bar and also the Retina display of the MacBook Pro and the iMac.
Click to expand...

The touchbar and GUI refresh are actually a small part of all the fixes and improvements.

https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT203718


"Pro desktop"? Well we'll see... but for me it's proof that there's a place for the "pro market" at Apple as they continue to update and refine their 2 flagship applications.
 
ManuelGomes said:
Oho...
http://wccftech.com/tim-cook-turned-apple-boring-operations-company/
Click to expand...

He's an Operations Guy so this is a surprise?


Stacc said:
After diving into this a bit, it seems that skylake-x is rumored to have 44 lanes on the CPU + 4 lanes that go to the PCH. Those 20 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the PCH share a single DMI 3 path which is essentially 4x PCIe 3. So a skylake-x mac pro could have 2 GPUs, 3 TB3 controllers and a 4x SSD and use all available PCIe lanes.

With Skylake-X rumored to be launching in August and Vega sometime in the middle of the year a WWDC announcement and shipping in the fall could work out pretty well and make for a killer machine.
Click to expand...

And these will be the first Xeon chipsets that support TB3, correct?

And WWDC 2017 would be the perfect time to announce an updated or new design Mac Pro since it's a developer conference and the Mac Pro is a developer-class machine.
 
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JimGoshorn said:
Shouldn't that face be a bit red instead of orange to reflect the level of embarrassment that Timmy should be feeling about now?!:confused:
Click to expand...
He is co-responsible for creating one the most profitable companies in last few decades. Yeah, he should feel embarrassed.
 
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ManuelGomes said:
TB3 is not tied to any chipset in particular.
Give it x4 PCIe 3 and you're good to go.
Click to expand...
This would be the first new Xeon since TB3 was made available though. I can't imagine Apple would turn the design just to update the ports. Add me to the list that thinks the planetary alignment of new Xeons, Vega and Alpine Ridge make this the most likely time to see a new MP.
 
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Analog Kid said:
This would be the first new Xeon since TB3 was made available though. I can't imagine Apple would turn the design just to update the ports. Add me to the list that thinks the planetary alignment of new Xeons, Vega and Alpine Ridge make this the most likely time to see a new MP.
Click to expand...

TB3 was available before Xeon v4 shipped (i.e. Broadwell-E(P)). Like manuelgomes said, you only need 4 lanes of PCIe and DisplayPort to use TB3. Its not really tied to the processor.
 
Stacc said:
TB3 was available before Xeon v4 shipped (i.e. Broadwell-E(P)). Like manuelgomes said, you only need 4 lanes of PCIe and DisplayPort to use TB3. Its not really tied to the processor.
Click to expand...
Indeed... Looks like DSL6540 launched in late 2015 and Broadwell Xeons in Q2 2016. I hadn't realized the controllers had been available for that long.

Refuse to give up on my optimism that we'll see something this summer though.
 
Analog Kid said:
Refuse to give up on my optimism that we'll see something this summer though.
Click to expand...
"Something" might be just new T-Bolt emojis.... ;)

cloud-with-lightning[1].png
 
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AidenShaw said:
Perhaps when Jen-Hsun said that Nvidia needed help from Apple - it was literally the truth. I'd certainly believe Jen-Hsun before I'd believe any of the four innovating amigos.
Click to expand...

They don't need technical help from Apple. The layer they interface with doesn't care what kind of hardware is on the other end. As long as the 1000 series is capable of OpenGL (most definitely) and Metal (don't see why not) Apple doesn't need to do anything.

The layer they interface with is private, but Nvidia already has access. And they already have kext signing powers. There is nothing technically they need from Apple.

Nvidia wants financial reason to do this from Apple, not technical help. Nvidia isn't going to bother adding support for a few thousand people who want to put GPUs into their Mac Pros. It's going to cost at least $200,000 to add support to their drivers. How many cards with how big of a profit margin do they need to sell to make up that loss?

If they add support to potentially have a multimillion dollar contract with Apple, adding a device type makes sense. Otherwise, there aren't enough old Mac Pro owners out there to justify it.

Pike R. Alpha said:
FYI: I received a request to retract my blog post and add a note to it:

"We since learned that the people in this airplane were ex-Apple employees. People who started their own company, so that they could design and produce products for Apple customers. They have nothing to do with Apple."

Which I did.
Click to expand...

Ahem. :)
 
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Mago said:
...issue with updating the nMP , the biggest issue is with GPU sources, AMD delays too much to deliver Polaris...
Click to expand...

I'm already running/testing a consumer Polaris 10 card over TB2 on nMP (w/D700s).

Access to Polaris 10 is not the reason :apple: is discontinuing headless Macs.
[doublepost=1484873228][/doublepost]
goMac said:
...there aren't enough old Mac Pro owners out there to justify it [nVidia mac driver support].
Click to expand...

And the last tower Mac Pros w/ PCIe slots are slated for vintage/obsolete status by :apple: end of this year.
 
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