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I'm pretty sure there are people in the forum who can confirm it, but I guess it is very likely due to thermal restraints.

Thanks for pointing it out. I haven't noticed it before, I gave for granted they had a lower boost frequency as usually happens as you increase the number of cores active on a chip.
That explanation doesn't hold water.

The max turbo only applies when a single core is active - there shouldn't be any significant thermal difference between a single core on the E5-1650v2 boosted to 3.9 GHz and a single core on the E5-1680v2 boosted to 3.9 GHz.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Xeon/Intel-Xeon E5-1680 v2.html

1680.jpg
1650.jpg
 
Cool. I was thinking that the boost would have applied to one core only. Therefore, if you are right (and I believe you), why would Apple cap it at 3.5 GHz?
 
Given this analysis refers precisely to Apple, I'd say we have solved the mystery: it was Apple webmaster's cat walking on the keyboard at the wrong time.
 
Highly unlikely. Not only is the this out now because the "doom and gloom" is quite high, but also NAB is in a couple of weeks. I think there are some audio conferences coming. They may do some more low key, NDA feedback sessions there about what people "heard" after digesting this info from Apple. (e.g,. how many folks walked away with the 'you're only interested in 1 GPU now... " misread on it. )

However, I doubt Apple is going to continue to yelp with a megaphone about this over and over and over again. It is enough of an Osborne Effect to do with they have done. To continue to harp on it over and over again only increases the impact.

There is not going to be nothing new to say. Still not going to talk about more details or a more specific timeline. Sucking up WWDC time to talk about something already talked about is a colossal waste of time. WWDC should be about new, positive, unannounced stuff'.

The rumor mill is going to push this out to tons of people in the pro sector over the next two months. Saying it all over again isn't going to add much of significance to the dissemination.


P.S. At least for WWDC 17. If Apple is as behind as it sounds ( just relatively recently found out Vega wouldn't work and ran into an unexpected brick wall) then WWDC 18 maybe. If they are just starting I doubt they would be finished by then and would have painted themselves into another "sneak peak" corner. If began to seriously explore this new otpion several months ago ... then 14 months is around the right amount of time.


Everything you said sounds right except one thing..

With this announcement Apple has opened pandoras box..EVERYBODY is going to be bugging Apple about a timeline and speculation on specs will eventually get out of hand. From this I believe Apple has no choice but to talk about anything or something having to do with the future mMP at WWDC..
 
@Peace Completely agree. With this coming out before NAB potentially in an effort to sway any efforts of folks looking to move to different platforms. Because they really are fooling themselves if the think people aren't looking if they haven't already jumped, timing is interesting. Having some "feedback" from NAB and then a tease of where they are heading with WWDC, which would be great for developers who may be looking to see what direction they are heading to take full advantage of the "vision" they have in mind. I'd be more surprised if there was no word on the "Pro" front.
 
With this announcement Apple has opened Pandora's box..EVERYBODY is going to be bugging Apple about a timeline and speculation on specs will eventually get out of hand. From this I believe Apple has no choice but to talk about anything or something having to do with the future mMP at WWDC..
This. Totally agree.

Although it would be totally unlike Apple to ask its customers what they want - this is a great opportunity to put the secrecy of the Jobs era to rest.

If Apple has several different ideas for the mMP - describe them and poll the audience.

Could you image Phil asking the keynote crowd - "Do you need to use off-the-shelf Nvidia GPUs?"?

The press meeting yesterday violated about every rule in Jobs' book, so keep going with transparency. (Although I'm amazed that they found a group of journalists who collectively failed to ask about Nvidia - unless there was a gag rule.)

Real pros want roadmaps for the future, and predictability.
 
I don't whom on earth the report considers "community" or classifies as "pro" but I don't have the same opinion as others, and I doubt I am alone.

As many PC modders and even companies have realised years ago, yet almost a decade after Apple (see G4 Cube), which in turn was decades after people with common sense had already realised, AT/ATX form factor is just terrible and inefficient.

I really hope Apple is smart (and yes brave) enough to avoid that path (again), otherwise it would lead them in a war they can't win and the users will still complain about paying 4x times for the same hardware already available from other brands. I hope they go with something modular/expandable/different but with independent compartments/pieces rather than "everything in one box".

As for the cylindrical Mac Pro, it would be an ideal workstation/desktop instead of a rendering machine if Apple just made it cheaper. Some upgrades/changes to consider:

Case: The same, maybe make it matte and improve the fan.
Made in California -> Made in China
Intel Xeon -> Intel i7 for desktops or even AMD Ryzen
DDR3 ECC -> DDR4 non ECC
AMD GPU -> BTO AMD or NVidia, latest chips, no need for expensive FirePro or Quatro
PCIe-SSD -> NVMe, not proprietary connector
Thunderbolt 2 -> Thunderbolt 3
HDMI 1.4 -> HDMI 2.1
USB 3 -> USB 3.1
 
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Although it would be totally unlike Apple to ask its customers what they want - this is a great opportunity to put the secrecy of the Jobs era to rest.

Tim Cook is still pretty committed to the secrecy, and from a business side it is understandable. If you release some detail then for whatever reason during the design process it changes then you have the entire community up in arms. From a consumer point of view it drives me mad though.

They do seem to be polling customers to find out what we want. Perhaps we can hope for some dialogue in the future? If history is any indicator it is probably a hard NO, but they say the only constant at Apple is change...
 
Case: The same, maybe make it matte and improve the fan.
Made in California -> Made in China
Intel Xeon -> Intel i7 for desktops or even AMD Ryzen
DDR3 ECC -> DDR4 non ECC
AMD GPU -> BTO AMD or NVidia, latest chips, no need for expensive FirePro or Quatro
PCIe-SSD -> NVMe, not proprietary connector
Thunderbolt 2 -> Thunderbolt 3
HDMI 1.4 -> HDMI 2.1
USB 3 -> USB 3.1
Great, you want another "Pro" moniker on the next Mac Pro that means the same "Pro" as in the current Macbook Pro?
 
Everything you said sounds right except one thing..

With this announcement Apple has opened pandoras box..EVERYBODY is going to be bugging Apple about a timeline and speculation on specs will eventually get out of hand.

ROTFLMAO ... just like every day of the year. There is nobody bugging Apple about the iPhone 8 right now. How many articles have been on front page of Mac rumors this last two months with iPhone 8 speculation. is Apple going to do a iphone 8 sneak peak at WWDC 2017. Heck no. You smoking way too strong stuff if believe so.

What day is Apple not being probed for more info. Why are that suddenly deeply vulnerable???????

Apple didn't open any box. What they said was that the box is closed for the rest of 2017. There is no new product this year; box closed, not open.


From this I believe Apple has no choice but to talk about anything or something having to do with the future mMP at WWDC..

Some of the more circular logic I've seen in a while on this forum. Because Apple said almost nothing about the next Mac Pro they are forced to say the exact same nothing about the Mac Pro again.

You are like a guy you goes up to an orthodox jew or islamic person and say " You gotta eat this pork". And they say "no, thank you it is against my religion". But it is great pork you just gotta. No. But it is really, really really great pork . What part of it is against my religion don't you get. But you gotta.... I firmly believe you gotta.

If Apple says that a new Mac Pro isn't possible in 2017 then they don't have anything. It isn't going to get finished until at least next calendar year. The rational response is "OK I'll be back in 2017 to see if there is anything more".
 
ROTFLMAO ... just like every day of the year. There is nobody bugging Apple about the iPhone 8 right now. How many articles have been on front page of Mac rumors this last two months with iPhone 8 speculation. is Apple going to do a iphone 8 sneak peak at WWDC 2017. Heck no. You smoking way too strong stuff if believe so.

What day is Apple not being probed for more info. Why are that suddenly deeply vulnerable???????

Apple didn't open any box. What they said was that the box is closed for the rest of 2017. There is no new product this year; box closed, not open.




Some of the more circular logic I've seen in a while on this forum. Because Apple said almost nothing about the next Mac Pro they are forced to say the exact same nothing about the Mac Pro again.

You are like a guy you goes up to an orthodox jew or islamic person and say " You gotta eat this pork". And they say "no, thank you it is against my religion". But it is great pork you just gotta. No. But it is really, really really great pork . What part of it is against my religion don't you get. But you gotta.... I firmly believe you gotta.

If Apple says that a new Mac Pro isn't possible in 2017 then they don't have anything. It isn't going to get finished until at least next calendar year. The rational response is "OK I'll be back in 2017 to see if there is anything more".

Your analogy has one huge fallacy.

You are like a guy you goes up to an orthodox jew or islamic person and say " You gotta eat this pork". And they say "no, thank you it is against my religion"

In this case the orthodox jew or islamic person came up to me. I didn't walk up to him.
 
@Peace Completely agree. With this coming out before NAB potentially in an effort to sway any efforts of folks looking to move to different platforms. Because they really are fooling themselves if the think people aren't looking if they haven't already jumped, timing is interesting.

Apple knows people are leaving Mac everyday. People come into Macs every day. That there is moment. There is movement all the time... it is not a new or unique or temporary event.

The timing is more so because there was really no even remotely credible reason for there not have been an update. Xeon E5 v4 systems are shipping. Yet another generation of new GPUs are shipping. The folks who bought AppleCare on their brand new MP back in Jan-Feb 2013 support coverage has expired. The fact that Apple has is clusterf*cked in getting something out the door at this point is obvious to almost everyone.

For Apple to look over in the Mac development lab and see either a whole lot of nothing even remotely shippable or something that wasn't "insanely great enough" for their tastes. Who would they think they are fooling?


Having some "feedback" from NAB and then a tease of where they are heading with WWDC, which would be great for developers

Who has tickets to WWDC or is going to put alot of effort into watching online hasn't seen one of those 4 four articles posted or a news story pointing back to one of them? There are some but do they care. Anyone who as been looking for Mac Pro news for last 6-7 months this was an major eruption in the new cycle. Missed this ... where were you looking????

What tease... Apple isn't going to have anything substantive done in next two months. If they can't get a product out for minimally at least 8 months from now ... what they have now is mostly nothing worth showing in a dog and pony show. WWDC is strip club , burlesque show. That's dubious. It is not.

Apple getting up and saying "Hey guess what we are working on a Mac back in the lab that you'll never use this year". It is waste of seriously limited time. Why wouldn't Apple be in the lab working on a Mac?


What be more "pro" impact at WWDC that isn't solely about the still in early bake phase Mac Pro is :

What is Apple doing about GPGPU programming. Filling the OpenCL hole with what?
OpenGL ... long term plan?? Not Vulkan then what? Metal forever as a single viable long term option?
APFS doesn't work with Fusion Drive or RAID formats ... what's up with that?
better AI/NeuralNet libraries optimizations that work on the 100M already deployed macs.
better XYZ class librarary that could help my apps this upcoming Fall-Winter.
..... etc. etc.. There are very real software issues.

eGPUs ... not going to formally do at all in the future? [ it is a software issue about enabling hardware capability across a large swath of the mac ecosystem. ]



who may be looking to see what direction they are heading to take full advantage of the "vision" they have in mind.

How much of the macOS stack only work on the Mac Pro? This library only works on 1% of all Macs ... why would developers get excited about that?


I'd be more surprised if there was no word on the "Pro" front.

Prepared to be surprised other than the often repeated "We do care about Mac" , "We do care about Pros". Deep details not even close ...
[doublepost=1491433077][/doublepost]
Your analogy has one huge fallacy.

You are like a guy you goes up to an orthodox jew or islamic person and say " You gotta eat this pork". And they say "no, thank you it is against my religion"

In this case the orthodox jew or islamic person came up to me. I didn't walk up to him.

No they did not. Apple did NOT come up to talk about details of the new Mac Pro. When pressed you can read in those transcripts you can see they repeatedly refused to give up details. What Apple talked about was their understanding of some of the aspects of why the current Mac Pro didn't do better than they hoped. It is a released system. The details of it, and it problems it has, they can relatively freely talk about. That is not in conflict with standing corporate policy about talking about future products.

There are some really super slim, vague generalities about the new system but are always in the context of of the old. "Well, we can't do big budget single card systems, now.". Did they commit to doing them in the future? Not really. It is an opportunity, not a commitment. Far more grounded here is "We know the folks in this space could bolt for other solutions". Implicitly they would probably like to keep them but at what costs and tradeoffs they don't say.

The main communication Apple was trying to make is that was along the lines of 'we are working on something'. They don't want to talk about the something at all. They want to talk about the fact they are actually working. The vast perception is that they are not working on much of anything. That was really the meat of the discussion.

That is exactly why the whole meeting was in a room with machine tools that grind stuff. We are grinding stuff here... really working hard.



Apple should have something but they don't. So that's the partial autopsy of the old Mac Pro design strategy. That is about the present and backwards; not forwards.
 
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Snip :

That is exactly why the whole meeting was in a room with machine tools that grind stuff. We are grinding stuff here... really working hard.



Apple should have something but they don't. So that's the partial autopsy of the old Mac Pro design strategy. That is about the present and backwards; not forwards.


Once again they didn't ask apple. Apple invited them.

"You are like a guy you goes up to an orthodox jew or islamic person and say " You gotta eat this pork". And they say "no, thank you it is against my religion". But it is great pork you just gotta. No. But it is really, really really great pork . What part of it is against my religion don't you get. But you gotta.... I firmly believe you gotta."

That jew or islamic person came up to me. I didn't go up to them.
 
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Before anyone gets too carried away with Nvidia... Nvidia isn't impossible but they won't be making any decision based on CUDA. It does sound like Apple is going to start pushing Metal even more, not backing off.
 
Great, you want another "Pro" moniker on the next Mac Pro that means the same "Pro" as in the current Macbook Pro?

Hah ? I am talking about keeping the cylindrical Mac Pro as a desktop/workstation at a lower price AND introducing a number crunching pro machine as well.
 
I don't whom on earth the report considers "community" or classifies as "pro" but I don't have the same opinion as others, and I doubt I am alone.

As many PC modders and even companies have realised years ago, yet almost a decade after Apple (see G4 Cube), which in turn was decades after people with common sense had already realised, AT/ATX form factor is just terrible and inefficient.

I really hope Apple is smart (and yes brave) enough to avoid that path (again), otherwise it would lead them in a war they can't win and the users will still complain about paying 4x times for the same hardware already available from other brands. I hope they go with something modular/expandable/different but with independent compartments/pieces rather than "everything in one box".

As for the cylindrical Mac Pro, it would be an ideal workstation/desktop instead of a rendering machine if Apple just made it cheaper. Some upgrades/changes to consider:

Case: The same, maybe make it matte and improve the fan.
Made in California -> Made in China
Intel Xeon -> Intel i7 for desktops or even AMD Ryzen
DDR3 ECC -> DDR4 non ECC
AMD GPU -> BTO AMD or NVidia, latest chips, no need for expensive FirePro or Quatro
PCIe-SSD -> NVMe, not proprietary connector
Thunderbolt 2 -> Thunderbolt 3
HDMI 1.4 -> HDMI 2.1
USB 3 -> USB 3.1

I think this would be a great idea, and be a major face saving, exercise. The only thing I would add is to yank the second GPU and replace it with a drive bay that could hold 2-4 m.2 SSD drives, and price it around $1799. It could be a hit.
 
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"Nerfing" the trashcan into anything without dual GPUs will not work, the triangular thermo core must have 3 sides occupied by components that generate approximately the same heat. As long as no newer dual GPUs that fit into the thermo envelope and TDP, we will never see a change of components with this same form factor, and this part is alluded in Apple's talk yesterday where they couldn't update it over the course of 3-4 years for the same reason.

Face it, the trash can is dead.
 
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Case: The same, maybe make it matte and improve the fan.
Made in California -> Made in China
Intel Xeon -> Intel i7 for desktops or even AMD Ryzen
DDR3 ECC -> DDR4 non ECC
AMD GPU -> BTO AMD or NVidia, latest chips, no need for expensive FirePro or Quatro
PCIe-SSD -> NVMe, not proprietary connector
Thunderbolt 2 -> Thunderbolt 3
HDMI 1.4 -> HDMI 2.1
USB 3 -> USB 3.1

Please proceed quietly towards the "iMac Pro" thread... :cool:
 
...the triangular thermo core must have 3 sides occupied by components that generate approximately the same heat.

Did you run your own tests or have a link you want to share ?

Face it, the trash can is dead.
It's called the Cylinder, unless you are just a hater.
[doublepost=1491476196][/doublepost]
Please proceed quietly towards the "iMac Pro" thread... :cool:
No, I believe iMac can stay as well, some people like it.
 
No, I believe iMac can stay as well, some people like it.

Who said the iMac should be discontinued? I was just saying that those specs would define the upcoming iMac Pro, not a mMP. :)
[doublepost=1491476742][/doublepost]
Did you run your own tests or have a link you want to share ?

By the way. It is pretty straightforward: if you take one card out and replace one side with a 250W source instead of two 125W on either plate, you won't dissipate the same heat, although total load stays the same. The available surface for thermal dissipation would be halved and temperature would rise.
Besides, Federighi said it loud and clear at the press event.
 
Who said the iMac should be discontinued? I was just saying that those specs would define the upcoming iMac Pro, not a mMP. :)

I am talking about having it live (maybe change the name if you don't want to call it Pro or make a new name for the next superduper Mac Pro). The current line (a bunch of iMacs and laptops plus a MacMini that never gets updated/upgraded and just one too expensive yet underperforming, whatever Apple will do, Pro machine) is too limited and does not cover many needs. I have put my thoughts elsewhere in the forum, don't really want to repeat myself. Basically, keeping/updating the current cylindrical Mac Pro by reducing the premium we have to pay for Xeons/Quadros/FirePros/ECC premium does not preclude a new top-of-the-line, ultra-expensive, number-crunching (and hopefully not just ATX) new MacPro. They can both find a home, not everyone thinks that powerful computers are just for Adobe Premier work and not everyone likes a constrained or mediocre screen or keyboard standing in the way.

By the way. It is pretty straightforward: if you take one card out and replace one side with a 250W source instead of two 125W on either plate, you won't dissipate the same heat, although total load stays the same. The available surface for thermal dissipation would be halved and temperature would rise.
Besides, Federighi said it loud and clear at the press event.

I don't think it works that way, but even then, PCIe SSDs also generate much heat these days.
 
Before anyone gets too carried away with Nvidia... Nvidia isn't impossible but they won't be making any decision based on CUDA. It does sound like Apple is going to start pushing Metal even more, not backing off.
Both can coexist on the same machine.
 
I am talking about having it live (maybe change the name if you don't want to call it Pro or make a new name for the next superduper Mac Pro)

Maybe we're having two different conversations. :D I am referring to the fact that Federighi showed their intention to produce a "pumped" version of the iMac for those Pro users who can be satisfied by a "thermal conscious" approach, while those who look for even more power, would go for the "spec-bumped" nMP right now and soon will be more satisfied by a mMP with one GPU (and maybe the option to add a second? :) ) at full power.
[doublepost=1491495993][/doublepost]
Beta nVidia pascal drivers coming next week. it was announced along with the new Titan Xp:
https://9to5mac.com/2017/04/06/nvidia-titan-xp-beta-pascal-drivers-mac/

Cool news, man! Here's an interesting update:

Update: We have reached out to Nvidia for a statement about compatibility down the line with lesser 10-series cards, and I’m happy to report that Nvidia states that all Pascal-based GPUs will be Mac-enabled via upcoming drivers. This means that you will be able to use a GTX 1080, for instance, on a Mac system via an eGPU setup, or with a Hackintosh build. Exciting times, indeed.

I take the author didn't think of all the cMP owners :p
Exciting times. I am so missing my cMP right now... will be stuck on a notebook till Q1 2018, I guess.
 
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