MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[koyoot]

That is maybe the reason why Apple stalled releases of their hardware, and only one computer that got lately updates was iMac? It does not require USB-C. We have heard that next gen Mac Pro might have 10 USB ports/Thunderbolt Ports.

If we think of it it makes a little more sense. Quite interesting in the context of what we all have been discussing lately.

 

[ManuelGomes]

http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-480-polaris-10-graphics-card-leak/

199USD?
[doublepost=1464732620][/doublepost]Not waiting up for the event. Very much doubt they'll release any specific info on Polaris.
They'll just show off RX480 and that's it I guess.
Another month waiting for final specs.
Bummer

 

[zephonic]

I assume the Xeon equivalents of these i7's (except the 6800K) will be in the next MP, with a 12 and/or 16 core topping the range:

To me, a base 6-core with the 6850K would seem like a very nice upgrade from my 4,1

 

[flat five]

Based on what we know...who (customers) would they be targeting for? FCPX users or film makers? VR users?

same people as always:
photo editors
video editors
graphic artists
musicians
animators
3D modeling / CAD
renderers
designers

like, when you click on the mac pro link, this is the very first thing you see:



they are targeting creatives.. plain and simple.

they most certainly aren't targeting spec heads, gamers, IT people, tinkerers, etc.. but that's where are all the complaints are coming from
go figure..

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they'll be targeting VR users soon enough.. not with the mac pro specifically though.. i don't think that'll blow over too well..
way (way!) more people will be interested in VR than are willing to buy a mac pro (or even desktop computer).
apple would be wise to build VR for the masses.


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[doublepost=1464739102][/doublepost]not a rumor.. instead, written in the mac pro patent:

[0073] • It should also be noted that one (as depicted) or both GPU riser boards 412, 414 can include SSD module 420. SSD module 420 can be coupled to a rear surface of one or both GPU riser boards 412, 414.




http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1="20140362522".PGNR.&OS=DN/20140362522&RS=DN/20140362522


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not really a matter of if but when with regards to seeing a 2nd drive inside.. maybe 7,1?

 

[AidenShaw]

not really a matter of if but when with regards to seeing a 2nd drive inside.. maybe 7,1?

All Apple needs to do is to route the four unused PCIe lanes on the MP6,1 to the graphics card that currently doesn't have the SSD slot.

And, of course, update to support NVMe drives.

 

[Mago]

If you would ask me, 3 possibilities:
Polaris and Vega with October releases.
GTX 1070 renamed to Quadro or Tesla.
Fiji in every possible flavor.

@Mago I was expecting more.

Remember this:

For those that like read rumours, on the same source, speak about the new mac pro to come on Q3, on E5v4 as expected with revised TDP (500W+) and as GPUs the base model will be available on AMD FirePro 310 (Polaris Elsemere XT GDDR5X), 510 (same Polaris GPU on HBM2) and D710 AMD Vega 11 on HBM2, the latest will be the only with FP64 Compute 2:1, total TFLOPS from 9/13/18 FP32 0.5/0.75/9 FP64, ram 16GB ddr5/ 16 GB HBM2/ 32 GB HBM2, 6 TB3 Ports, 4 USB-C 3.1, 1 HDMI2, dual 10.000/1000/100 MBPs lan on RJ45, 2TB 2.5 GBps m.2 nvme with passive cooler, upto 16 CORE Cpu, Ram Upto 128GB.

 

[flat five]

All Apple needs to do is to route the four unused PCIe lanes on the MP6,1 to the graphics card that currently doesn't have the SSD slot.

And, of course, update to support NVMe drives.

oh. i thought no lanes were available or there weren't enough to run the components already in 6,1.. much less another drive.
?
(i never really thought about it or studied it.. just bits and pieces i pick up on around here)

 

[Mago]

oh. i thought no lanes were available or there weren't enough to run the components already in 6,1.. much less another drive.
?
(i never really thought about it or studied it.. just bits and pieces i pick up on around here)

6,1 has no enough pcie2 lines for a 2nd ssd coz they plugged wifi/bt module to it, in case they opted on pluggin to usb they could enable, but no native USB3 good for a good wifi adapter.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

The AMD livestream presentation is awful... Nvidia definitely has "cooler" presentations. Polaris is looking alright so far though.

 

[pat500000]

same people as always:
photo editors
video editors
graphic artists
musicians
animators
3D modeling / CAD
renderers
designers

like, when you click on the mac pro link, this is the very first thing you see:

View attachment 633774

they are targeting creatives.. plain and simple.

they most certainly aren't targeting spec heads, gamers, IT people, tinkerers, etc.. but that's where are all the complaints are coming from
go figure..

----
they'll be targeting VR users soon enough.. not with the mac pro specifically though.. i don't think that'll blow over too well..
way (way!) more people will be interested in VR than are willing to buy a mac pro (or even desktop computer).
apple would be wise to build VR for the masses.


.
.
.
.
.
.
.


.
[doublepost=1464739102][/doublepost]not a rumor.. instead, written in the mac pro patent:

[0073] • It should also be noted that one (as depicted) or both GPU riser boards 412, 414 can include SSD module 420. SSD module 420 can be coupled to a rear surface of one or both GPU riser boards 412, 414.


View attachment 633777

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1="20140362522".PGNR.&OS=DN/20140362522&RS=DN/20140362522


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not really a matter of if but when with regards to seeing a 2nd drive inside.. maybe 7,1?

lol I thought you would post that creative apple website up..lol. But yeah. It appears the things haven't change much in terms of product for creativity. But of course..mac pro wasn't for gaming. go figure.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

Demonstrating League of Legends running at 30-40fps on their APU doesn't fill me with confidence :\
[doublepost=1464748632][/doublepost]Their processor is called the A9... It's going to get confusing if Apple ever replaces the Apple A9 with an AMD A9

 

[pat500000]

Demonstrating League of Legends running at 30-40fps on their APU doesn't fill me with confidence :\

I want to know why they are selling it at 199.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

This benchmark was kinda dodgy (some random game and it looked like they were rendering different things... but here's what they showed). It seems odd that they would mention "GPU utilisation is 51%" but demonstrate crossfire. Why not just show one at 100%? Do the drivers suck or the game or what?
[doublepost=1464748967][/doublepost]Looks like the "upgrade to Windows 10" prompt has invaded the livestream so they're rolling with it.

 

[pat500000]

This benchmark was kinda dodgy (some random game and it looked like they were rendering different things... but here's what they showed). It seems odd that they would mention "GPU utilisation is 51%" but demonstrate crossfire. Why not just show one at 100%? Do the drivers suck or the game or what?
[doublepost=1464748967][/doublepost]Looks like the "upgrade to Windows 10" prompt has invaded the livestream so they're rolling with it.

Yeah, ikr?
It's kind of weird to me as well. Oh well. There must be a reason.

 

[AidenShaw]

oh. i thought no lanes were available or there weren't enough to run the components already in 6,1.. much less another drive.
?
(i never really thought about it or studied it.. just bits and pieces i pick up on around here)

6,1 has no enough pcie2 lines for a 2nd ssd coz they plugged wifi/bt module to it, in case they opted on pluggin to usb they could enable, but no native USB3 good for a good wifi adapter.

The MP6,1 has four unused PCIe lanes. Wasted. On the mobo, not connected to anything.

Look at the diagram.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

Aww yus "1 more thing"
[doublepost=1464749635][/doublepost]Aw it's Zen and not Vega
[doublepost=1464749919][/doublepost]"you haven't seen anything yet"
Great summary of AMDs presentation.

 

[hollyhillbilly]

1:07:30 mark for Zen

 

[fuchsdh]

The MP6,1 has four unused PCIe lanes. Wasted. On the mobo, not connected to anything.

Look at the diagram.

Don't see any free lanes here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/8

 

[pat500000]

1:07:30 mark for Zen

LOL barely any claps from audience.

 

[antonis]

musicians

Well, not sure about that one. Why would a musician choose a machine that a big percent of its price comes from the dual-only workstation-class gpus ? It would be an unjustifiable overkill purchase.

 

[ShadovvMoon]

5 TFLOPS at 150W = ~34 GFLOPS/W?

 

[flat five]

Well, not sure about that one. Why would a musician choose a machine that a big percent of its price comes from the dual-only workstation-class gpus ? It would be an unjustifiable overkill purchase.

big percent? how much we talking here?
how much do you suppose 6,1 base config would cost if it had one d300 instead of 2?

personally, i'd guess, maybe, $2850 instead of $2999.. or about 5%.

is that a big percent? or are you thinking it would be a much greater discount if they had an option to configure with only one gpu?
[doublepost=1464755413][/doublepost]and hey, i'm certainly not trying to tell you how you should spend your money or whether or not such&such is a worthwhile deal for your uses.. like, i'm really not.

the question i opted to answer was 'who is apple targeting with nmp'?

maybe i'm misunderstanding what it means for a company to target a particular group of people but i think that means 'what are apple's advertisements about'

go to their web page, and look through their ads / spiels..
that's who they're targeting.

 

[goMac]

While the performance per $ on Polaris is good, the performance per watt is extremely bad. This is bad. Neither AMD or Nvidia have a card now that would ideally fit the Mac Pro power profile. Here's to hoping Apple upgrades the power supply, or we're in big trouble.

AMD's story of running two Polaris 10s in parallel is a little compelling, but still problematic with no Crossfire on OS X.

They're hitting the lower wattages which is good, but releasing Polaris 10 with lower performance than the 1070 but with the same power requirements is a serious problem.

 

[deconstruct60]

Zen CPU Family its Aimed at both Enthusiast, Server and HPC Markets, according AMD coomunications and roadmap,

Zen isn't coming anywhere any time very soon.

" ... and AMD is now working on bringing it up in their labs. ... "
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10391/amd-briefly-shows-off-zen-summit-ridge-silicon

There have been no samples for Apple to work with on a design. Even AMD has a low grip on real Zen hardware. By the time it is working and deployed Intel will probably have Kaby Lake deployed and E5 v5 (Skylake ) out into early testing. Any significant bugs and they probably won't make a 2016 rollout date.

First batch of ZEN CPUs are 8 core models aimed at Workstations/Servers/Enthusiast, having IPC comparable or better than Intel Skylake.

This is the desktop one. The server ones are further out.

" ... And further down the line it will be appearing in server products and embedded products as well. ... "

IPC isn't going to help much on a cache miss. IPC going downhill with a hurricane tail wind or broad workload IPC ? AMD is more than 40% behind Intel's top tier. (link from the comments section on that Anandtech artticle on IPC of Skylake versus current AMD line up)

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/698?vs=1554

I see it on some PDF, while TB3 Emulated Network Mode Actually offers 20 GBPs coonection (20 up, 20dn).

PD. I'm in debt with this reference, ASAP I find again it I'll quote you again.

The TB site

"...
Thunderbolt™ Networking

• 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers

..." ( implicitly TB controller to TB controller )
https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-does-it-all#sthash.mGLoGBpN.dpuf

" ... Thunderbolt 3 will also offer the ability to daisy-chain up to six devices as well as to emulate a 10-gigabit Ethernet connection. That latter capability will let users connect two Thunderbolt 3–supported computers directly in order to transfer large amounts of data quickly. .. "
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/hardware/intel-talks-thunderbolt-3

BaseT physical 10GbE .... not mentioned anywhere.

Previously discussed, I come with an link form Anandtech, where explain the feature of such PEX switches,

This one?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9245/avago-announces-plx-pex9700-series-pcie-switches

Features?
Tunneled Windows Host connector ..... not present in Mac Pro ( a single system).
Host to Host memory transfers ..... not present in Mac Pro ( a single system).
Shared I/O ..... not present in Mac Pro ( a single system ).

Server Storage Arrays ...... there is one and only one drive in the system. What array?
High Availability .... not present in Mac Pro ( a single system).

further the Mac pro 6,1 uses one to multiply 8 PCIE3 into 12 PCIE 2 for the older TB2 Falcon Ridge controller (3x).

That is an adapter issue. Need more v2 lanes than you have. So downshift the 8 v3 lanes into 12 v2 lanes. That isn't oversubscriptoin of bandwidth. TBv3 already is PCIe v3. So no "downshifting" needed to effiecient make use of the v3 lanes.

Oversubscribing lanes that are going to actively and highly concurrently use will lead to issues. Two NVMe x4 SSD that are both actively reading and writing ( or worse being used in stripped pair ) with run into choked bandwidth.

The same configuration I propose is being selling by ASROCK on its X99 WS motherboard, also Gigabyte has one identical with a couple of PEX- enabilg 7 16line each PCIe3 connections concurrent (switched).

7 x16 PCI cards doing what? Loading data one at a time and then tweaking it for several minutes at a time. Prehaps... but that isn't particularly concurrent.

If start to push a model where there is more uniform/"remote" access between main RAM and VRAM then PCIe bus traffic is likely to get higher and more concurrent.

The New PEX improves its features with advanced DMA etc

PCIe has DMA... The "newer" element here is host-to-host DMA ( and mapping to some sane addressing between hosts. )




Short term AMD has a pretty good Tonga class replacement....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10389/amd-teases-radeon-rx-480-launching-june-29th-for-199

$199 pricing .... which after Apple's 30-40% mark-up and any "FirePro" mark-up will be the price range Apple is probably looking for in "new and improved" GPUs for a Mac Pro. 4GB and 8GB could be the differentiator.
[doublepost=1464765356][/doublepost]

If you would ask me, 3 possibilities:
Polaris and Vega with October releases.

Apple doesn't necessarily need Vega, nor is it good to wait until October. That is more of a bragging rights issue ... rather than seriously need to refresh dated line up. Faster than old school D700's inside of the same (or lower) thermal range? Then go.

If waiting on FirePro variants/drivers then later hardware will be even later getting to that status.

GTX 1070 renamed to Quadro or Tesla.

At what price point? How are Quadro drivers going to appear for boot camp Windows before mainstream Windows?

Fiji in every possible flavor.

Only if AMD is offering steep discounts.
[doublepost=1464766004][/doublepost]

To me, a base 6-core with the 6850K would seem like a very nice upgrade from my 4,1

The 6850K cost $600+ . The E5 1620-1630 v3 cost $292-372. Apple isn't going to "eat" the $200+ ( plus 30% mark up) between those two. Unless Intel bumps the base 1600 series up to 6 cores and keeps the price the same .... Apple is probably going to pick the new 1620-1630 v4 that is the same price as the 1620 v2 they have in the base systems now.
Intel is increasing the prices anyway.Doubtful Apple is going to "double down" on that start off $200+ higher still in the component line up.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Exactly as I predicted, not much information was released, just RX480 scarce info and some benches to keep the interest up.
RX480 must be the power spec GPU, with disabled CUs and GDDR5.
Will there be a RX480X full fat with GDDR5X? Probably.
Tech for the next 3-4 years!!
DP1.4 is good.
AoS settings don't seem the same for 1080 and 2x480, right?
All in all, doesn't look bad but also not great I guess. We'll have to wait for the rest of the lineup and reviews.
Maybe they kept the >5TFlops open to still adjust the final value. I'd assume at least they get to 1.25GHz so tat it comes closer to 6TFlops, but that could be reserved for the higher end model.
4GB seems short now, but it could be used for D310, in which case D510 would have to be 2560 cores and 8GB GDDR5X.