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Would love to hear some more about your experiences with PCIe expansion. Do you have any active threads (didn't see any here).
hi there !
not really !
what do you want to know?
it is preatty basic and straightforward :
you buy a supermicro SC846 chassis,
you slap a cyclone microsytem atx pcie expender in there with an areca 1882ix24, 24 sas HD, 4 quadro p4000, an anfeltec pcie to 4 ssd adapter in the port 1 of the mac, the cyclone host card on slot 2 , you conect via a 16x cable and voila... you edit 8k in real time...
[doublepost=1539202924][/doublepost]and by the way i have bought the modularmacpro.com domain name and if anybody want to know more about pcie expender I’ll be happy to post a quick howto video on there, let me know if you are interested as I thought I was the only dumbass to think to think this route... works ok for me, so I’ll be happy to share my experience... I just dont feel that there would be anyone interested in such oldschool hardware based on 2009 solution.
let me know, I’ll be happy to help!
 
Just to add to this... Apple adding third party NVMe to the Mac Pro 5,1 is also very strange, and this time has no connection whatsoever to eGPU.

It isn't that strange. If look at the "what's in your slots' thread and extract from a healthy fraction of this forum's threads there are a substantial number of folks with standard PCI-e mounted SSDs in the targeted user base. Folks to were taking to hackery to do more to enable

NVMe pragmatically means PCI-e based SSDs. Apple is strongly in favor of a future based on PCI-e connected SSDs as being the primary "go to" storage medium. (i.e., they wish HDDs would 'go away'). So more 5,1 folks moving more data to a NVMe SSDs is only encouraging those folks to embrace the future Apple is targeting.

If Apple puts an empty standard PCI-e x16 slot and some (1-3) empty NVMe M.2 slots in the next Mac Pro then many folks can just move those GPUs (non boot screen) and SSDs over to the new machine in addition to the nominal boot GPU and SSD in those systems. That's far more likely than Apple trying to pave the way to 5-6 HDDs in a "pull and upgrade" path. Folks who spent $800-1200 on a GPU/SSD are likely going to want to pull them along in the upgrade ( as they represent a significant sunk cost).


Thunderbolt tie in is true too. Folks are putting NVMe SSDs in external enclosures too so it isn't like they "go away" from the base driver work anyway.


And even less surprising working on this if the time line is screwed up ( more like December 2019 than first half of the year).

If Intel's Xeon W's are barely refreshed current versions

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1345...-xeon-w-processors-fixes-for-spectre-meltdown

Apple may be waiting until well after Intel gets their 14nm manufacturing unclogged in Q2-Q3.
 
My wishlist (1) wider spaces between PCIe slots ( 2) At least one M.2 slot ( 3 ) A lot more of everything available
 
My wishlist:

Dual Socket (I'd be ok with one, processors are more powerful these days, but more lanes is nice.)
At least 128GB RAM supported.
At least two doublewide PCIe slots for standard GPUs, RTX2080 etc...
At least two internal PCIe SSDs, one for boot, one for files, scratch etc...
At least two sata bays. I'd love 3.5" but I'd settle for 2.5".
At least 6x TB3/USBC

Don't care what it looks like or how big it is...
 
My wishlist:

Dual Socket (I'd be ok with one, processors are more powerful these days, but more lanes is nice.)
At least 128GB RAM supported.
At least two doublewide PCIe slots for standard GPUs, RTX2080 etc...
At least two internal PCIe SSDs, one for boot, one for files, scratch etc...
At least two sata bays. I'd love 3.5" but I'd settle for 2.5".
At least 6x TB3/USBC

Don't care what it looks like or how big it is...
One AMD EPYC has the lanes and the power of 2 intel
 
If there is an event this month, does anyone expect a sneak preview of the new Mac Pro?
If Apple was smart, and they had something to show, I would say so. The longer it goes past the April 2017 "we *ucked up" roundtable the more egg on the face they have. To be honest I think they have until 2019 WWDC to have something to say but it really is getting ridiculous at this point.

(Snazzylabs $1,400 mackintosh smokes $5000 iMac Pro)

It is sad at this point, really.
 
If there is an event this month, does anyone expect a sneak preview of the new Mac Pro?

I expect something. Probably extremely light on real details, but 'something'.

If it is 3-6 months aways then probably yes ( if closer to 3-4 then more so). They are not shipping this year so it can't be 2 (or less ) months away. It could be a 'rigged demo' unit ( no hands on, no software demo, etc.) . If in mid-late 2017, Apple picked/targeted 2018 component parts and allocated the resources, then delivering in Q1- early Q2 2019 is a reasonable expectation. At this point they should have at least demo cases done and 'fit to case' demo custom logic board(s) done.

Intel W 'refresh' , some AMD GPU bumps upgrades, and a more stable T2 subsystem would all be quite trackable for release in first half of 2019. If Apple is technically killing off the MP 2013 form factor (e.g., going back to desk side orientation) then it wouldn't be unprecedented to do it early (like almost a Quarter before can ship). Intel's and AMD's roadmaps about candidate CPU/GPUs is out there at this point so wouldn't have to 'hide' too much detail in the talk about potential performance.

If it is more firmly in the 5-7 month zone I wouldn't expect a 'sneak peak' but perhaps a pre-sneak-peak "come back in December when we'll have a cool 'demo' " . That will at least narrowing down when the "sneak peak" would appear.


If it is closer 12 months away, then no. If Apple bet the farm on 10nm parts from Intel or some exotic tech that won't be available until late 2019 then they'll be nothing to show now. That bet on bleeding edge parts would be a bonehead move, but they've made previous bonehead moves with the product line so can't completely discount it. If Apple has screwed up, I'd expect them to keep pointing back to their April 2018 statement about no Mac Pro in 2018 and that it is 2019 product (so will talk about it in 2019 ).


I'd say that if they don't announce something at the end of the month then it is more likely that it is some new set of compromises design focus that many folks who are in "put a new board in the old case" camp are going to hate with a passion. If waiting on a "box with plain slots" system, then its probably not coming. Given about 18 months to put together a rigged demo shell of a rectangle with slots and Apple couldn't do it..... I'm not sure why someone would wait on them any longer. Starting standing still (no resources assigned) and building a box demo from scratch that is a generously reasonable amount of time. ( not a ready to ship system, just primary physical design/layout done. )

Even if it was eventually basically a box, Apple would have wasted a ton of time doing next to nothing. It would be more of a timely builds trust thing. That would be indicative that Apple would go right back into Rip van Winkle, 'flake out' mode again.

If they don't have a demo (or demo date) then I think they are probably trying to do something closer to the Mac Pro 2013 than something closer to the "middle" between 2009's design constraints and 2013's . Not some 'Area 51' advanced tech... just something that could have also done if put the work in starting earlier in 2017.
 
If there is an event this month, does anyone expect a sneak preview of the new Mac Pro?

If Apple wasn't focused on the consumer end of the spectrum it would not show the contempt we have seen so far towards both professional individuals and corporate customers.
If Apple still has any large corporate customer, they would need to see a proper roadmap for the product line they intend to invest on rather than relying on internet gossips/blogs and forums like this one...

P.S. Another gripe I have is Apple thinking that pro users are only photographers and video editors...
The flexibility and strength of a UNIX like OS offers incredible opportunities for data science and analysis in pretty much any scientific professional environment where people need more than compromised laptops or all-in-one designs. Linux is great but it requires a lot of fiddling and maintenance.
 
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P.S. Another gripe I have is Apple thinking that pro users are only photographers and video editors...
The flexibility and strength of a UNIX like OS offers incredible opportunities for data science and analysis in pretty much any scientific professional environment where people need more than compromised laptops or all-in-one designs. Linux is great but it requires a lot of fiddling and maintenance.
apple got rid of rackmount servers with ipmi's some time ago.
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If Apple wasn't focused on the consumer end of the spectrum it would not show the contempt we have seen so far towards both professional individuals and corporate customers.
If Apple still has any large corporate customer, they would need to see a proper roadmap for the product line they intend to invest on rather than relying on internet gossips/blogs and forums like this one...
large corporate customer need to the right to destroy storage cards / disks on warranty repairs. + maybe at least an raid 1 mode.

Dell and HP have that support option as well in office service.
 
I keep telling people that they're in love with the thermal core and are way overthinking this thing. After dicking around with trying to install some basic stuff on Windows (it really is unpleasant to me), this Z820 is getting hackintoshed for personal use.
 
I keep telling people that they're in love with the thermal core and are way overthinking this thing. After dicking around with trying to install some basic stuff on Windows (it really is unpleasant to me), this Z820 is getting hackintoshed for personal use.

Ubuntu is your friend.
 
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I keep telling people that they're in love with the thermal core and are way overthinking this thing.

Apple is so in love with designing mousetraps, with trying to create the most mousetrappy mousetrap possible, that they've not noticed the grain silos actually have a rat problem.
 
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If Apple wasn't focused on the consumer end of the spectrum it would not show the contempt we have seen so far towards both professional individuals and corporate customers.

Apple isn't so much focused on consumer rather than corporate. They are more focused on the actual device users rather than folks who want to choose and distribute personal computers to users. Sometimes those aren't aligned. The establishment has its own priorities that are not necessarily user priorities.

If Apple still has any large corporate customer, they would need to see a proper roadmap for the product line they intend to invest on rather than relying on internet gossips/blogs and forums like this one...

Lots of very large corps are buying bucketloads of iPhones. ... think they are getting 3-4 briefings on details Apple has nailed down? Nope. Apple's problem right no is for more so lack of 'do' than lack of 'talk'.



P.S. Another gripe I have is Apple thinking that pro users are only photographers and video editors...

That isn't true. It is a mindset that is propagated more so by forums like this one than in reality.

"...we’ve been talking to Mac Pro users – and the rest of the pro users: iMac users, MacBook Pro users. ... A growing group for us is software developers. ... I think if you use Xcode downloads as a metric, it’s possible software developers are actually our largest pro audience. It’s growing very quickly, its been fantastic. ..."
https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/t...-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/

Apple also knows that there is "pro" software other than there own that covers broader ranges than what Apple covers itself ( writing , diagnostic , etc. ). There is a subset in Video area that has a strategic roadmap mismatch with CUDA focus, but that isn't the entire scope of "pro software" in their scope.

Apple spend more time and resources ( e.g., their "pro focus group") on the intermix of Macs and Logic/FCP because Logic and FCP are their products. If they don't spend time optimizing them who is? That's their responsibility (and revenue source).

The only highly trendy "pro" category that Apple largely avoids is the "pro gamer" folks. There are some "supercomputer" 'pro' stuff they don't particularly cater to either, but the vast amount of the moaning and groan in these forums actually is in the a/v subsection of the pro market.



The flexibility and strength of a UNIX like OS offers incredible opportunities for data science and analysis in pretty much any scientific professional environment where people need more than compromised laptops or all-in-one designs. Linux is great but it requires a lot of fiddling and maintenance.

Being POSIX (UNIX) complaint means there is portability aspects. UNIX isn't particularly essential (strength) to data science. That is just where the 'bigger iron'/'bigger cluster' tools are.
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I keep telling people that they're in love with the thermal core and are way overthinking this thing.

Highly unlikely for the next Mac Pro since they openly named it as a limitation. The GPU and CPU on the iMac Pro are highly decoupled from one another. If they were so manically in love with the concept they would have been liklely to repeat it there. They did not. Haven't on the MBP design updates either. There is exceedingly little evidence to back up this claim.

The overthinking is far more in that widely complex and contrived explanations for the delay. It is extremely likely there is no new Mac Pro probably because they were not substantively working on one. Second, because building an Apple product from scratch takes a time frame on the order of 18-24 months not the 3-8 months ones folks arm flap about. The iPhones ? 18-24. They come every 12 because the process is process is multiple pipelined. The SoCs ... same thing. if Apple halted those to a standstill and then started them back up from scratch ... same 'delay' would ensue.

The Mojave + Metal GPUs in a Mac 5,1 don't generally have boot screens and have limited Windows bootcamp support. Slap something together and ship is viable as a "stopgap"/"life raft" product on the verge of falling into the Obsolete bucket, that isn't going to meet the "new, best ever" product metric for Apple.

There is likely to be some custom aspects to the system but that isn't necessarily overthinking. Simply assuming the same design parameters from similar systems 10 years ago isn't really 'thinking' about them at all.
 
I'd expect it to be demoed at WWDC 2019. ...and I'd wager these things ship Q4 2019.

WWDC 2019 would have after another April ( April 2019 this time) where Apple would have to do their third 'the dog ate my homework' excuse meeting with some tech press reporter(s) about how they were still not done with a Mac Pro revision. Three times in a row! If they have complete cluster-screwed this ( extremely late 2019 or perhaps sliding into 2020 at that point) it would far better to just spend that time to state openly that it was just a screwed up project beyond belief and it was going to be a very long time. Put the partially completed case into a glass box so show something and beg for a long extension of time.


The notion that some weak, 'look but don't touch' demo in June is going to fix a demo-less excuse story in any substantive way is kind of a chuckle. It won't; at least for a substantive block of the rational folks still circling the airport.


The whole point of the iMac Pro was to buy them a lot of time

No it wasn't. the iMac Pro isn't going to disappear when a new Mac Pro arrives. It isn't a stop gap. It is a product that had higher priority and focus at Apple than the Mac Pro did. If anything of those two is a stop gap it would probably be the Mac Pro. ( do one last iteration and then go back into Rip van Winkle sleep for another 6 years. ).

Apple very clearly outlined that there pro user base was primarily MBP , followed by iMac followed by a very distant Mac Pro. Apple has seen substantive folks move from Mac Pro to iMacs (and also substantive folks who bought the Mac Pro 2013). The iMac Pro is targeted to enhancing that path. They aren't going to walk away from a path customers established. Folks who were largely happy with a iMac or MP 2013 the iMac Pro is the primary upgrade path ( and folks coming off a older Mac Pro into that class ).

There is a segment that the iMac Pro (and MP 2013) does not address. The next Mac Pro is going into that "subsection". If it works ( they sell enough to make it worthwhile) great win/win for both sides. But Apple isn't going to shot the iMac Pro (which is in a different subgroup) in the head to force folks into the that other subgroup. If the new Mac Pro subgroups dies off then Apple would probably just move on to something else. 3-5 years down the road the iMac Pro will be that much more capable with improved internals.


The "buy more time' was the hastily whipped together firmware upgrades for Mac 5,1 for Metal GPU cards and NVMe drives. That was more fuel for folks about to run out of gas circling the airport. Not the iMac Pro.
 
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I could go either way with a October Mac Pro sneak peak. Apple knows there is a base of users who will want to see the Mac Pro, and that waiting until WWDC 2019 would be ridiculous. But this whole thing has been ridiculous so far.
 
WWDC 2019 would have after another April ( April 2019 this time) where Apple would have to do their third 'the dog ate my homework' excuse meeting with some tech press reporter(s) about how they were still not done with a Mac Pro revision. Three times in a row! If they have complete cluster-screwed this ( extremely late 2019 or perhaps sliding into 2020 at that point) it would far better to just spend that time to state openly that it was just a screwed up project beyond belief and it was going to be a very long time. Put the partially completed case into a glass box so show something and beg for a long extension of time
Couldn’t agree more.

That is ridiculous when you look at the tech world. That argument really establishes the need to announce/preview/tease something between now and April 2019. If no word by then I think anyone left waiting is a fool. Clearly Apple doesn’t care, professional, prosumer, consumer, big outfit, world clears studio, independent, contractor, free-lancer, weekend wedding warrior. Yes a lot can get by with a MacBook Pro, some happy with an iMac but some of us would really need/like a workhorse. Nothing by April really puts things in perspective.
 
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Right now my guess is we get a preview before the end of the year, with official launch at WWDC. Shipping then or shortly after. I hope I am wrong and they release sooner.
 
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Make no mistake, this whole thing is absurd. We had the richest and maybe most sophisticated company on Earth essentially apologize for screwing up. That was a year and half ago. This wasn't the point Apple realized they f-ed up either. This was the point they acknowledged it to the public. Starting the 18-24 month clock at that point is silliness. They probably had 6-12 lead time, at least, into knowing the nMP was just not going to work going forward. Maybe they scuttled the Mac Pro for a time, but clearly they picked it back up at some point before figuring out this sheet wasn't going to fly.

I've been on Ubuntu workstations and sticking with MBPs since this stuff went south in 2012. That was more than 6 years ago guys....
 
Right now my guess is we get a preview before the end of the year, with official launch at WWDC. Shipping then or shortly after. I hope I am wrong and they release sooner.
A preview of what? A Mini-Mac with a TB3 port?

In April 2017 Sir Jony should have said "Here's what HP is shipping for a professional workstation. The tube is a complete failure (regardless of Phil's ass). How soon can we hit this space?".

If anyone said "more than six months", they should have be fired on the spot.

But Sir Jony is the "chief of design", not the "chief of engineering". So nothing has happened because it wouldn't have been pretty enough. Sir Jony should have been fired.
 
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A preview of what? A Mini-Mac with a TB3 port?

In April 2017 Sir Jony should have said "Here's what HP is shipping for a professional workstation. The tube is a complete failure (regardless of Phil's ass). How soon can we hit this space?".

If anyone said "more than six months", they should have be fired on the spot.

But Sir Jony is the "chief of design", not the "chief of engineering". So nothing has happened because it wouldn't have been pretty enough. Sir Jony should have been fired.

Not sure I understand this. He is one of the most succesful product designers in our time. He has designed iconic products ranging from the iPod to the iMac and MacBook Air, which all defined their respective market.

Sure the Mac Pro isn't the best product but it sure did turn heads. They took a gamble on the design and it didn't pay off.

I understand the "Mac Pro" crowd is annoyed but we are really a small part of their business. The Mac accounts for only 14% of their revenue and a tiny part of that is the Mac Pro.

No one would in their right mind fire Jonathan Ive, least of all Apple. Steve Jobs made sure to point that out.
 
A preview of what? A Mini-Mac with a TB3 port?

In April 2017 Sir Jony should have said "Here's what HP is shipping for a professional workstation. The tube is a complete failure (regardless of Phil's ass). How soon can we hit this space?".

If anyone said "more than six months", they should have be fired on the spot.

But Sir Jony is the "chief of design", not the "chief of engineering". So nothing has happened because it wouldn't have been pretty enough. Sir Jony should have been fired.
And this also is why you are not the chief of anything at Apple.
 
The problem with Apple is their manager are not humble again, they wont care on anything except Apple Stocks, while the i$hit stuff pay for their sins we will never see the Apple we loved again, that's simple.

With the Next Mac Pro Apple will say a lot on their future, the two possibilities:

  1. They launches a Mac Pro really focused on Pro Market needs: Multiple Modular GPUS, Storage, SOTA HEDT CPUs, multiple GPU vendors (enabling CUDA/TensorFlow work on macOS) etc.
  2. The other Approach, is they launch an Headless iMac Pro as the Mac Pro, this will say: We Only Need Artists, Video Produces, all other Pros f*up.
  3. Another possibility is they get rid of the Mac and sell it to chinese Foxconn ALA IBM and their PC business, it could be the less harmful scenario for the Mac.
I fear the 2nd scenario is the more likely and will mean the prelude of the Macintosh dead.
 
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