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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
- Thread starter Mago
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To me it would be important that the new Mac Pro can be configured to everyone’s need and upgraded later by the user if needed and that storage and RAM can be added by the user. I hope that the entry level system is well below $3000 and can be configured up to everyone’s need.
So at this point is it even worth waiting for this machine? From what it sounds like, they're going to release this thing on Intel this year, and then switch to Apple designed ARM chips next year that will probably smoke Intel in every way with dozens upon dozens of cores on the new 5nm process coming next year. We'd have waited so long just to be obsoleted when they stop supporting Intel chips in a few years (like they did with PowerPC after only two versions of OS X). Who cares if it's modular if it's going to be an Intel-only machine? I guess it depends on the exact implementation but I worry about their history with the Mac Pro and it just being another dead end.
Amen!
Only if we can swap out the Xeon modular with the AX-pro silicon module when they are released
Don't think so. There is no way they will keep that form factor. IT even in the stretched design would have cooling issues. Also it's still not big enough to take full size PCI pro GPU. This isn't expandable but upgradable, where in that system can you add in a thunderbolt 2 card, or a usb 4 card etc. In a pro system they are unlikely to get rid of mic or Headphones, because pro audio users would likely use them. I think this is way off. I think we're more likely to get a metal box of sorts, with some beautiful industrial design. It doesn't need to be "pretty" but it will have a beauty to it because it's apple. Even the cheese grater, in my opinion was a quality, solid and elegant system. All metal. It wasn't an eye saw like most PC's. I reckon they could very well go back to the cheese grater form - but with totally new configuration. I also strongly believe it'll have consistency with the MacMini, and will almost definitely come in space grey.
I also hope you're wrong about the peek at WWDC and then launch late December - it's a pro system, and if they care should be released when companies have spending power. I saw a few posts questioning the sheer amount of time it's taking. As you can build a PC quite efficiently and speedily nowadays.
The rumors about supposedly credible leak about about Apple's "Legos project" Mac Pro design that was tweaking it for Thunderbolt 4. ..... When there is no Thunderbolt 4
where just how believable is was that ?
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/03/04/usb4-converges-usb-and-thunderbolt-3/
Now that Thunderbolt will be driven by an even larger committee any major upgrade in specs will probably move slower ( order of magnitude more cooks in the kitchens probably won't make things at quickly has they have). USB 4.2 , 4.5 (or 5) might get an iteration.
Also kind of chuckle of the bucket full of "Thunderbolt is dead' posts on these future Mac Pro threads over last 3- 4 years. .... About as "dead" as NeXT was a couple of years after the Apple take over (that was just about as much as a reverse take over). Thunderbolt on the next Mac Pro is highly likely at this point if it is better coupling with future USB 4 devices. (and likely would have USB 4 in some distance future iteration if gets another upgrade at this one. )
Is Apple going to 'fork' from Thunderbolt 3 to do something off standards and lone wolf with their own chipset development? They could but it probably won't buy them much other than more drama later on. I don't think that is path they are on.
where just how believable is was that ?
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/03/04/usb4-converges-usb-and-thunderbolt-3/
Now that Thunderbolt will be driven by an even larger committee any major upgrade in specs will probably move slower ( order of magnitude more cooks in the kitchens probably won't make things at quickly has they have). USB 4.2 , 4.5 (or 5) might get an iteration.
Also kind of chuckle of the bucket full of "Thunderbolt is dead' posts on these future Mac Pro threads over last 3- 4 years. .... About as "dead" as NeXT was a couple of years after the Apple take over (that was just about as much as a reverse take over). Thunderbolt on the next Mac Pro is highly likely at this point if it is better coupling with future USB 4 devices. (and likely would have USB 4 in some distance future iteration if gets another upgrade at this one. )
Is Apple going to 'fork' from Thunderbolt 3 to do something off standards and lone wolf with their own chipset development? They could but it probably won't buy them much other than more drama later on. I don't think that is path they are on.
and will they have an to drive video over Thunderbolt with an full size video card? Multi bus?
Full sized and off the shelf (available at Fry's) aren't the same thing.
The Mac Pro 2013 GPUs are at variance with the mainstream more so because they have coupled cooling and eschew direct external socket connectors, than they have abnormally small size.
if trying to get to what will 2021 versions of the Windows workstation "box with slot" systems do. If mandated they'll probably just skip USB 4. By 2021 the skew in the overall market of laptops vs "box with slots" will be even more skewed than it is now. If the workstation put Type C with USB 3.2 on then they'll still work with most USB4 stuff that comes out (external drives , ). USB4 is highly likely to require a "fall back" mode into USB 3.2/3.1/3.0/2.0 for most devices. Will there be a "PCI-e only is OK" for boxes only external GPU ports? There is a decent chance [ those box makers have several votes in the USB-IF committee if can "save a buck" by making something standard but optional... they'll probably have a faction that pushes that through] Given that USB 3.1 Type-C has about umpteen different modes ( Power delivery... or not power delivery, Type-C 2.0 only , Type-C USB 3.1 gen 1 only. , etc. etc. ). USB 4 probably is going to increase user confusion, rather than decrease it. ( these are same folks who keep changing the names, USB 3.0 , USB 3.1 gen1 , USB 3.2 gen 1 ).
[ I think Intel and Apple are betting on the laptops being dominate keeping the Thunderbolt on track with the direction momentum it has built up over the last 10 years (by time 2021 rolls around. ]
Since USB 4 makes Type-A sockets disappear, the systems that have a significantly large "same old ports I had a decade ago" user base camp probably aren't going to move on from Type-A completely.
For Apple's Mac Pro ? No.
So other vendors... Generally, No. For some just built into the motherboard i/O panel loop back sockets. If it comes mostly embedded in the chipset so paying for it ( either largely or completely ) anyway the loop back will just get added as standard port ( maybe PS/2 ports will finally go into retirement). But USB 4 in the chipset probably isn't coming for a long while. Especially desktop chipsets as currently they are almost always located in the wrong spot to deal with Thunderbolt placement design constraints (or any other >= 40Gb/s port placement issues.) .
Your kissing the point of these apparent rumours of what it will be like, it will not take full size GPU pro cards, because you will not be able to fit them, you will need to buy Apples add on module instead that you just ‘plug in’, not the same as plugging in a GPU into a PCI slot.
They did the same with the Mac Pro 6.1, offered custom GPUs that were smaller.
If Apple goes down this route then it will be a ridiculous price and geared towards them having total hardware control over it all. Which seems to be what they want.
and with apple an HDMI port will eat up TB bandwidth as that is how the 2013 is wired.
It depends on which side of the Intel/Arm fence you want to be on. Intel has advantages running older software and VMs and Boot Camp while the Arm Macs will theoretically have better support for running iOS apps. The 2019 Mac Pro will most likely be most powerful Intel Mac ever made. This is reminiscent of how the PowerMac G5 was the most powerful PPC Mac ever made. It will be years before Apple is capable of creating an Arm processor that can compete with modern Xeon chips even with a 5nm process so I wouldn't shy away from the Mac Pro for performance reasons. If you want a Mac that is most compatible with Apples future strategy then waiting for the Arm Macbook Pro is probably a better idea.
ARM means move to windows. I have jumped platforms for the last time.
I'm a little baffled by that last bit. What's the use case for someone wondering fi they should get a Mac Pro which will be on Intel's Cascade Lake processors, or some future MacBook Pro on some A14XX or god knows what? Moving to ARM on laptops is probably going to start with just the MacBook and maybe move to Air then Pro each subsequent year. So not only are you likely waiting until 2022 or later, what are you waiting for if presumably you need something more powerful than the current Mac lineup offers?
unless Apple have suddenly decided it can make professional GPU's I don't see how this will work. To sell a Module they have to have options on cards. Offering a PRO product with limited choice, or expandability defeats the purpose of it being modular, or expandable. I am a PRO I want the ability to put in the type of Graphics card I CHOOSE. Not what I'm told. One size doesn't fit all. Apple cannot take on the likes of NVIDIA in terms of pro cards.
Yeap, I agree, but this IS Apple and Cook is running it... and he hates you being able to upgrade or repair your Apple devices without going to Apple. Look at the new Mini, you can only upgrade the RAM, nothing else internally.
That I fear is the route the new Pro will follow, upgradable in Apple’s micro controlling way, run by the T2 chip no doubt.. what that GPU? Buy the add on module with the AMD card options they’ll only be offering..
Let’s be perfectly clear. All of these various pluggable box modular Mac mock ups that we’ve seen do not even qualify as “rumors.” There have been no leaks or statements from Apple that imply they’d build anything of that nature.
What we are seeing is just bored designers creating Apple ecosystem fanfic because there’s not much else to do in the absence of any real information.
Or, the only thing we know about the new Mac Pro, is that we don't know anything about the new Mac Pro, apart from that there will be one (OK, it might still be vaporware, at least in theory...). Anyone who actually, somehow, comes up with something that proves correct when it actually gets unveiled and/or specs shown, well done....but it'll be a lucky guess.
The HDMI port on the Mac Pro 2013 soaks up exactly zero amount of Thunderbolt bandwidth.
The HDMI port is fed by putting a DisplayPort switch that either routes the DP single to the Thunderbolt controller input or to HDMI conversion subsystem. The DP data traffic if diverted from the TB controller input can't possible impact TB bandwidth if the data never even makes it to the TB controller to be "loaded" onto the TB network. If anything it increases the bandwidth because unload the possible DP traffic that was completely diverted away from Thunderbolt.
One of the root causes there is there being 3 TB controllers and 6 DPv1.1 streams to fill ( two each on the controller). The lowest GPU chip used in the Mac Pro only had 6 output max capability.
If next Mac Pro only uses two TBv3 controllers then that is only 4 DP1.2-1.4 streams in. If the lowest GPU still is capped by 6 max output streams then Apple could put a HDMI connector on the system that is fed by one of those "extra" streams and have no impact on DP stream availability on the TB ports.
It would be kind of silly for Apple to shoot for 3 TBv3 controllers on the next system. The x4 PCI-e lane budget could be used for another internal high bandwidth SSD (or two) . two 10GbE ports , may perhaps an x4 standard slot. Similarly the two "extra" DP streams could be used for external mini DP v1.4 ports ( e.g., dual cable 8k). Or perhaps a miniDP and HDMI cable. ( so folks with 1-2 monitors (not docking station Monitors ) could hook up to the new Mac Pro with cables they have.
Sigh ....... a system 6 years old and still don't know what they are looking at. Block Disgram for MP 2013:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/wanted-block-diagram-for-mac-pro-late-2013.2093248/
What Apple refers to as "TB bus" is actually not Thunderbolt. It is the inputs to the Thunderbolt controller. So the "Thunderbolt Bus" is the x4 PCI-e and two DisplayPort streams that feed into the Thunderbolt controller. That grouping of x4 and x2 DPv1.1 is what Apple is calling a "bus". Those are NOT Thunderbolt protocol data stream or network. They are just the inputs. It is like saying the on Jetway passenger ramp to a plane is the plane. It isn't. It is the bus to Thunderbolt.
The "TB bus" is also an indication that two external TB ports are hooked to the same controller (and transitively its specific inputs). Apple talks about the TB bus because that is what should set some baseline expectation as to what you can possibly get out of the pair of parts. You aren't going to get more than x4 PCI-e v2 out of the combination of the two TB ports on the same "bus".
Simply put what is inside the Mac is not Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt pragmatically only occurs outside the internals of the Mac system and out of the TB controller's ports that are not in some legacy fall back mode. So a DP-to-HDMI dongle on a Thunderbolt port soaks up zero Thunderbolt data bandwidth because the DP stream is never converted to Thunderbolt protocol in the first place. ( The HDMI port is only a variation of that; raw, never converted protocol, shipped out of a port).
P.S. There is nothing this function block diagram that precludes a "full sized card" at all. These blocks of functionality are function; not form. It is separated into different logic cards in the same system. And there isn't too much good reason to pull those cards too far apart for the core, basic system.
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Hair force one: "But certainly flexibility and our flexibility to keep it current and upgraded. We need an architecture that can deliver across a wide dynamic range of performance and that we can efficiently keep it up to date with the best technologies over years."
That's where all of this module nonsense is coming from. Notice it says "we" can efficiently keep it up to date - we as in Apple, not customers. The rest is fantasy. We've yet to see or hear of user-upgradable GPUs. The Apple Jonathan Mac Pro concepts floating around are pure speculation.
The other quote comes from Phil Shiller: "As part of doing a new Mac Pro — it is, by definition, a modular system — we will be doing a pro display as well. ... We care about our Pro users ... who use modular systems as well as all-in-one systems."
People are reading entirely too much into the word "modular" here which means the opposite of all-in-one i.e. has a detached monitor and that's it.
That's where all of this module nonsense is coming from. Notice it says "we" can efficiently keep it up to date - we as in Apple, not customers. The rest is fantasy. We've yet to see or hear of user-upgradable GPUs. The Apple Jonathan Mac Pro concepts floating around are pure speculation.
The other quote comes from Phil Shiller: "As part of doing a new Mac Pro — it is, by definition, a modular system — we will be doing a pro display as well. ... We care about our Pro users ... who use modular systems as well as all-in-one systems."
People are reading entirely too much into the word "modular" here which means the opposite of all-in-one i.e. has a detached monitor and that's it.
But what else would be taking Apple this long?
Clearly we aren’t getting a 5,1 or even modified chassis with current hardware offerings. Why put 3 years of R&D into an intel machine when Apple is heading towards ARM?
Seriously what are the options?
Clearly we aren’t getting a 5,1 or even modified chassis with current hardware offerings. Why put 3 years of R&D into an intel machine when Apple is heading towards ARM?
Seriously what are the options?