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I feel like you should be able to get a system that bests yours decently for less than that sum, especially considering the cumulative updates since the nMP came out. Especially since I imagine the displays and peripherals will just be migrated to the new system.

And yeah, I have the same sentiments about Creative Cloud. It's still hilarious to run into After Effects effects that kill rendering performance randomly, or how the iMacs at my work would demolish renders faster than comparatively beefier rigs just because it wasn't well multithreaded. Or how Premiere and After Effects still freak out and refuse to replace footage if you happen to have it selected somewhere. I guess the best I can say is that it's much better than it once was. After Effects can (mostly!) play audio without buffering to RAM first now!

Apple and companies like Blackmagic that actually work to maxing out hardware performance put Adobe's anemic efforts to shame. And with Creative Cloud subscriptions that's removed a lot of incentive for Adobe to do the necessary overhauls the apps need.

Yea haha, Creative Cloud is just hilarious.. I mean after all After Effects still doesnt use all cores during rendering properly like it used to a couple of YEARS ago...

you are right maybe about the price, I forgot that the imac pro has a 1000€ display included into the price tag..
It's gonna be interesting what apple comes up with in winter I assume. I just hope I can justify the upgrade price with the added performance.
 
So guys, I'm currently sporting a nMP 8core with 64gb and dual D700s. If there'll be a new monster this year I think I'll jump on it. In general I have to say I'm still quite happy with the performance of the trashcan, especially since Adobe Apps which are my daily bread, are still so poorly optimized, especially after effects.
What the system is struggeling with a bit though are the two dell 5k displays that I have hooked up to it. Sometimes, for example in Lightroom, the interface is super sluggish. I'm reading the same about owners of the imac pro though, very little improvement there on the software side, even with superior hardware, so....

The question is, what kind of performance improvements over my current machine do you guys expect? 50%? 100%? I'm kinda unaware how much gpus and cpus have improved over the last 5 years especially in relation to software if you're not into 3d rendering for example.

And what kind of pricetag should I be saving for? I'm mentally preparing for something around 8000-9000 euros... an awful lot of money, but I guess it's what we'll be looking at, right?
If you’re only running adobe apps, maybe you should consider a windows box.

Regarding lightroom, I moved to capture one because of the extremely poor performance of lightroom. Can’t say I regret it, but I really wish apple never dropped aperture!
 
If you’re only running adobe apps, maybe you should consider a windows box.

Regarding lightroom, I moved to capture one because of the extremely poor performance of lightroom. Can’t say I regret it, but I really wish apple never dropped aperture!
I know I know... but Windows is out of the question. Never in my life will I go back :D
 
I know I know... but Windows is out of the question. Never in my life will I go back :D

Why?

Computers are tools to do a job. Lots of cases out there where Windows is better suited.

I also prefer Apple by a long shot, but we have several PC’s in my office for people running Polyworks all day. Is what it is and works great for that
 
Why?

Computers are tools to do a job. Lots of cases out there where Windows is better suited.

I also prefer Apple by a long shot, but we have several PC’s in my office for people running Polyworks all day. Is what it is and works great for that
Yeaaaaa, but I'm just too deeply tied up into the whole ecosystem. It's way too convenient to use airdrop from ipad to send over some quick scribbles to a mac workstation to put into a premiere animatic for example. I get that windows is better suited if you have to use real high end apps for 3d for example, but then again, you have flame running in real time on an imac pro. So I'm just not willing to give up hope on Adobe at some point properly optimizing for mac.
 
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...im-to-detail-apple-designed-arm-chips-for-mac

WTF! :D
7000 on single core... I know, I know: synthetic benchmarks don't give the whole picture.... but WTF... :D

Here is a Qualcomm powered cell phone from geek bench database ... 9212
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/10513254

There are 3+ pages of in the top single core benchmark browser over the 9000 mark
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/singlecore

( an 11Ghz iMac with an Intel chip too ) .

It isn’t that it is an synthetic benchmark .... it the ability for the results to to be spoofed too . It is a porn contest ... at some point some folks are going to throw fake boobs into the mix .
 
Honestly.. That could be true.
Not for the MacPro but the iMac and Macbook.

Thought the same. It looks like - if it's true - a CPU with MC performance competing with a 6 core. After all, if they have to move the Mac line to ARM, it would be kinda strange to start with a low-volume model such as a MP. I mean, they could do it with the MP (and I sort of hope it, otherwise selling it in 5-6 years time will be impossible), but only if they sell a widespread model such as a MB or an iMac.

Screenshot 2019-03-16 at 23.56.10.png



Here is a Qualcomm powered cell phone from geek bench database ... 9212
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/10513254

There are 3+ pages of in the top single core benchmark browser over the 9000 mark
https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/singlecore

( an 11Ghz iMac with an Intel chip too ) .

It isn’t that it is an synthetic benchmark .... it the ability for the results to to be spoofed too . It is a porn contest ... at some point some folks are going to throw fake boobs into the mix .

Touché, man :D :D
(and too funny... CPU porn :D :D )
 
Honestly.. That could be true.
Not for the MacPro but the iMac and Macbook.

Probably not . The premise is that the 4.2-4.5Ghz i7 in two year old iMac is being beaten by 1000 point by a 3.4 GHz. The A12x single score is boosted substantially by its memory throuput score . Whether apple memory interface scales to using DIMMs and a broad range of capacities is open to question.


The base of A12X is 2.49Ghz . A jump to 3.4 is a 37% . If apply a 37% increase to A12X’s 4976 score that is 6817 . The turbo mode scaled the same 37% increase would be in that zone . The multi core score there seems to be a bit blackslide from 37% but in that range . That part is consistent.

That substantive problem is that this shows nothing about a robust I/O that MBP or desktop would need . ( more than one port , than x4 PCIe , etc )
 
Why?

Computers are tools to do a job. Lots of cases out there where Windows is better suited.

I also prefer Apple by a long shot, but we have several PC’s in my office for people running Polyworks all day. Is what it is and works great for that


Good point .

But for me personally, with limited Windows experience, it'd be weeks of learning to get a new OS to behave as I want it to, adjust my workflow, and figure out a way to work with 2 different platforms .
No biggie for people comfortable with cross platform work, and who might have an IT crew to set it up and keep it all running .
 
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If the MacPro is modular, maybe they could come out with a module for processing that would slot in PCIe but be loaded with ARM chips for processing power
 
If the MacPro is modular, maybe they could come out with a module for processing that would slot in PCIe but be loaded with ARM chips for processing power
You don't develop software, do you....

Also, have you looked at existing products like the Intel® Xeon Phi™ product family? These are many-core compute accelerators on PCIe cards - running the same x64 instruction set as the host.

There's also a little Santa Clara company that makes PCIe cards with many thousands of processing cores. They pretty much own the supercomputing market. (Six of the top 10 supercomputers (and three of the top five) are either using Phi™ or that little Santa Clara company.)

Do you really think that Apple would be interested in playing that game? Apple doesn't even seem to be interested in their traditional creative markets. Do you think that Adobe or other third parties would be interested in major rewrites of their software to chase the shrinking Apple market?

Not. Going. To. Happen.
 
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No new details other than it's still "modular" and is being positioned as a serious Pro machine, with base model starting at $5k and configs up to $20k fully loaded.
Whatever the credibility might be, I'm certain it will be greater $10k for something you want.
Apple and entry level configs is always a joke at best.
So ... no buy for me.
Still on a MacPro 3,1 bought for $3k
 
If the MacPro is modular, maybe they could come out with a module for processing that would slot in PCIe but be loaded with ARM chips for processing power

Highly unlikely. To date Apple's ARM SoC implementations have the primarily inward focused. High integration of the elements on the chip and inside the package and relatively nothing particularly special with integration outside ( e.g., higher throughput with large system cache shared by ARM cores and GPU cores ). Neither is macOS particularly oriented to dealing with NUMA set-ups. (e.g, running NUMA across a PCI-e link or even between more than two chip packages ).

Simply just throwing 1/2 dozen smartphone SoCs onto a card is more likely to be a hot mess from a coordinated, coherent computational perspective than something straightforward to work with.


If Apple did anything about put relatively very high core count on a PCI-e card it would be their GPU cores, not the ARM ones that would be the candidate.

i. They don't need an OS on the card.
ii. They will scale better on a single large die (or two) for "embarrassingly parallel" workloads. (just like most other GPUs. )
iii. The latency model between card and main CPU/RAM is already a well worked out model.
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.,, I'm certain it will be greater $10k for something you want.
Apple and entry level configs is always a joke at best.
So ... no buy for me.

With the iMac Pro that is highly unlikely. Apple won't be able to put something like a 6 core Intel W , 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD at $5K when the the iMac Pro is sitting at about the same price with better specs in each measure ( 8 core , 32GB, 1TB ). If Apple is shooting for $5k floor for the Mac Pro then that would highly likely be at least where the iMac Pro is now. 8 cores , 32GB , 1TB SSD , Vega54 may not be the configuration that some people need but it hardly a joke. In fact, probably overkill for what some folks want/need (e.g., step down to lower mid range on the GPU for folks with low 3D graphics needs. ).

If there is just one internal drive possible like the iMac Pro then it probably won't be want most folks in the targeted space want. Same with zero nominal access to the RAM DIMMs slots. Avoiding the hyper scale Apple puts on the storage and memory will leave lots of room to land under $10K for something to do over and above the entry point for reasonable large workloads coverage.

Apple setting the entry at $5K would means they would be extracting "something" very substantive, if not getting all of the memory upgrades.
 
You don't develop software, do you....

Also, have you looked at existing products like the Intel® Xeon Phi™ product family? These are many-core compute accelerators on PCIe cards - running the same x64 instruction set as the host.

There's also a little Santa Clara company that makes PCIe cards with many thousands of processing cores. They pretty much own the supercomputing market. (Six of the top 10 supercomputers (and three of the top five) are either using Phi™ or that little Santa Clara company.)

Do you really think that Apple would be interested in playing that game? Apple doesn't even seem to be interested in their traditional creative markets. Do you think that Adobe or other third parties would be interested in major rewrites of their software to chase the shrinking Apple market?

Not. Going. To. Happen.

I definitely don't write software! I'll leave that up to you smarter guys on here (I love reading your stuff @AidenShaw and deconstruct60) I don't think Apple would be going for that market either but it could be used for offloaded iOS Apps inside MAcOS which is a feature they are said to be working on. Imagine Affinity Photo or Designer offloaded onto one of these cards, it could be infinitely more powerful than any iPad Pro, the software is amazingly powerful as it is. FCPX/Motion.Compressor could offload rendering to these cores, leaving the processing power of the Main core CPU for other tasks or Logic could start using FPGA algorithms of compressors, EQs and limiters or Synths in general.

I don't see Apple being really interested in scientific stuff or servers at all to be honest more content creation and coding for user experiences, AR and Virtual Reality in the future.
 
but it could be used for offloaded iOS Apps inside MAcOS
This is the essence of my "you don't write software" comment.

This would be a big project for the third parties, and the Apple OSX market for third parties is shrinking. In particular, the market share for any hybrid x64/ARM system will likely be miniscule.

Think of the Ferengi. ARM coprocessors are unlikely.

95766a85da28a06cef37efdcff6b676e89802161ce2c85a0a37b1ec96c535f5f[1].jpg
 
I don't think Apple would be going for that market either but it could be used for offloaded iOS Apps inside MAcOS which is a feature they are said to be working on. Imagine Affinity Photo or Designer offloaded onto one of these cards, it could be infinitely more powerful than any iPad Pro, the software is amazingly powerful as it is.


Affinity has OSX versions of their apps, why on earth would anyone run some sort of iOS sim on a Mac to use a tablet version ?

Apple could just make the iPad/phone a proper input device for Macs, which they should have done 10 years ago , and get off their 'future of computing' hype train already .
 
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Anyone seen this?

I've been avoiding that one for fear of just getting angry at it being part of process of building the fait accompli of another garbage sealed appliance "we listened to all our Pros, and they told us what matters most is getting a sealed appliance that they can just plug in and go".

Got a summary of each person's position? :)
 
This is the essence of my "you don't write software" comment.

This would be a big project for the third parties, and the Apple OSX market for third parties is shrinking. In particular, the market share for any hybrid x64/ARM system will likely be miniscule.
Exactly. I've done a few projects with co-processors on PCI boards (was still old PCI back then). It's hard. It's also never standard. Everything is custom. There's a good reason why common computers don't have such general purpose add-on computing boards, except for very specific purposes (GPU, network, ...). I don't see Apple go for a mixed architecture for general purposes any time soon. The T2 falls into the "very specific purposes" category, by the way :)
 
I've been avoiding that one for fear of just getting angry at it being part of process of building the fait accompli of another garbage sealed appliance "we listened to all our Pros, and they told us what matters most is getting a sealed appliance that they can just plug in and go".

Got a summary of each person's position? :)

It is not totally sealed appliance at all. There is not too much new there to anyone who has read a significant portion of this thread (let alone the 2-3 that proceeded it).

It is 11 minutes long and it spends about 3 minutes covering what got said in the two previous April pow-wow from Apple.

MKBHD says wants in part what the iMac Pro is not. Easier access to upgrade some parts. Interested in adding GPU cards and/or a future GPU card. Fast storage like what the iMac Pro has ( 2-4TB SSD ).

Macro modern (current) refactoring of Cheesegrader. No compromise on thermal , size, power consumption ... but not make unreasonable noise . expandable, upgradable, serviceable. Don't overthink it ( but then pay attention to detail ).

Host. without limits: all memory , all the storage , etc. etc.
( but then backs off 100% equating with a generic PC tower because macOS is not Windows. macOS probably won't cover every possible device every made. )

He walked through two options of "next generation" cheesegrader ( tool less upgrades ) and a modularity along line the lines Red camera, Legos style ( the Mac Pro 2013 had "too much" inside). The latter would be a "moon shot" (if screw it up then in perhaps worse place than they are in now) . Doing the former would be "safer" (my word not his but that general notion).


I think it is general consensus is at least that being constrained by trying to do a limited footprint, literal desktop solution is not what any of these are looking for.


However, I think an extreme, "read between the lines" notion that flows through these that the older Mac Pro was some penultimate in terms of "put anything no matter how big or power hungry inside" is more romantic than truthful. So the notion of Apple going out and finding the largest, more power hungry workstation labeled part they can find and rigidly designing just around that is probably not a good baseline. Not underclocking the CPU and GPU (as in iMac Pro ) and open access to the logic board sockets would fit the descriptions if not taken to the extremes. Apple probably has some cap, the comments though don't want to constrain them (or provide an excuse to stop shorter than they'd be willing to go).

In the context of the last couple of years, telling Apple to "go to Infinity and beyond" is probably a colossal mistake. Given them a marching orders that anything, no matter what the cost, is a humongous gift to an organization focused on driving average selling prices even higher.
 
I definitely don't write software! I'll leave that up to you smarter guys on here (I love reading your stuff @AidenShaw and deconstruct60) I don't think Apple would be going for that market either but it could be used for offloaded iOS Apps inside MAcOS which is a feature they are said to be working on.

Actually that isn't what Apple has been talking about. There are folks who attempted to listen to what Apple was saying and they said Apple was trying to get native iOS apps onto macOS, but that isn't it.

What Apple has actually talked about publicly is actually closer to a system where developers could write an app that has iOS and macOS components in it and that larger app bundle could run on iOS or macOS. Developers would were closely following the rules and guidelines would still have to do unique for iPads and Macs. And later iPads , Macs , and iPhones. The UIs would be different enough so that if had any substantive parts you'd have to do some work.

There would probably be a fallback and run in funny shaped window mode. For example, same thing that happens when run Instagram on an iPad. It just starts up and looks like the phone app. Kind of embarrassing but allowed one the one hand, but definitely not going to get any praise at all from Apple.

Those apps can be compiled into x86 versions just fine. ( they are now for the few that Apple did themselves. I can't see how it would get harder over the next year or two). The whole point is that you wouldn't need an ARM chip to run those.

[ The other Apple hasn't said anyting even remotely close to that thing is that T-series chips will get more horsepower and run abritrary user loaded apps. Not even close to what Apple probably is heading toward. Heck they can't even get their own software to run smoothly let alone Bubba's fart noise app. ]


Imagine Affinity Photo or Designer offloaded onto one of these cards, it could be infinitely more powerful than any iPad Pro,

No it wouldn't if those were just multiple iPad Pro processors soldered onto a single card. It would be like having multiple iPads inside the box but the individual software app on any one pf those wouldn't run substantively faster than on an iPad Pro. ( also would have the overhead of dragging the display result bak across the PCI-e connection. )

That would primarily only be handy for software that had the ability to 'run" work jobs deployed to a computational grid. ( like ship these jobs off the the render farm in the machine room. or farm these QA or compiles off to this set of remove machines. ). The 'front end' GUI part of the app collection results and manages tthe computation but it is carved up and sent off to instances. With a several ARM SoCs on a card they'd have a "cluster inside the box". Probably cheaper than the big cluster down the hall you might have to share , but wouldn't have to share.

the software is amazingly powerful as it is. FCPX/Motion.Compressor could offload rendering to these cores,

Compressor can do these remote jobs but problem run into with small SoC is the size of individual jobs can do.

That kind of workload tends to get bounded into certain sub areas.


leaving the processing power of the Main core CPU for other tasks or Logic could start using FPGA algorithms of compressors, EQs and limiters or Synths in general.

A CPU trying to take workload arway from a DSP may not work so well if can upgrade the DSP in the first place. Same card with ARM could be swapped out for card with more DSP/FPGA/ASIC etc.
 
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