MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[Perezx]

Powermac G4 Cube - Compact, densely packed components, price premium based on small footprint, limited upgradability, highly engineered thermal chimney design. Result - Chronic thermal related failures, and a sales disaster.

2013 Mac Pro - Compact, densely packed components, price premium based on small footprint, limited upgradability, highly engineered thermal chimney design. Result - Chronic thermal related failures, and a sales disaster.

*definition of insanity, repeating the same actions & expecting different results*
*definition of a fanatic, one who upon losing sight of their objective, redoubles their efforts*

"it's small, it thermally fails, customers reject it. it's small, it thermally fails... are you getting it?"

Taking into the account that Apple tried to (re)launch butterfly keyboard three times... yes, they definitely may try to make one more “dense mac pro”.

If you want my opinion - cheesegrate as an approach to standard tower is the only acceptable formfactor for Pro machine. It MUST accept standard disks, GPUs etc.

 

[filmak]

My point was if Apple was mainly concerned about sales and profit they would simply build another tower unit similar to the old cheesegrate because they knew it sold well.

There has to be a reason other than pure sales/profit behind this.

Myopia ?

 

[Flint Ironstag]

A case, larger than tcMP/G4 cube but smaller than full tower, designed to house components with reasonable TDP could be the centerpiece of a modular ecosystem. Pervious efforts at "compact" were too aggressive, but that doesn't mean only big towers are viable.

My solution would be a mini-tower sized "brain" case for the mobo, PSU, cooling, ports, CPU, RAM, etc with zero, or just one PCIe slot. This would suit a portion of the market and support things like eGPU, RAIDs, etc via TB3. For the hard core crew, offer a second matching "daughter" case that's just a slotbox with it's own PSU and at least 24 dedicated lanes of PCIe4 via extender. With clever design, the two cases could allow for a very short distance between the mobo and an external PCIe bus to reduce latency issues.

For those of us that need max performance and would like to avoid a rat's nest of boxes and cables, we can just treat the brain/daughter combo like a cheese grater tower. Pack it full of GPUs, SSDs, specialty PCIe boards, etc. Order the whole thing BTO from Apple if you want full AppleCare coverage and are willing to pay a premium to protect your investment (or satisfy company purchasing rules).

For those folks who need more than a maxed-mini and/or aren't interested in an AIO like the iMac you could still sell them a one case solution. If they ever need more than the thermal envelope can handle, there's TB3 externals or add the daughter case later. This would keep a population of artists, creatives, hobbyists, institutional buyers, etc in the Mac.OSX world at a price point ($3-8K) and TDP requirement (1,100w PSU and air cooling) that would work in a wide variety of situations.

Nobody wants this. It solves zero problems that a reasonably sized tower (Z6) doesn't already do better, faster, cheaper.

 

[askunk]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...lar-mac-pro-new-external-display-at-wwdc-2019

Depressing...

 

[Boil]

A case, larger than tcMP/G4 cube but smaller than full tower, designed to house components with reasonable TDP could be the centerpiece of a modular ecosystem. Pervious efforts at "compact" were too aggressive, but that doesn't mean only big towers are viable.

My solution would be a mini-tower sized "brain" case for the mobo, PSU, cooling, ports, CPU, RAM, etc with zero, or just one PCIe slot. This would suit a portion of the market and support things like eGPU, RAIDs, etc via TB3. For the hard core crew, offer a second matching "daughter" case that's just a slotbox with it's own PSU and at least 24 dedicated lanes of PCIe4 via extender. With clever design, the two cases could allow for a very short distance between the mobo and an external PCIe bus to reduce latency issues.

For those of us that need max performance and would like to avoid a rat's nest of boxes and cables, we can just treat the brain/daughter combo like a cheese grater tower. Pack it full of GPUs, SSDs, specialty PCIe boards, etc. Order the whole thing BTO from Apple if you want full AppleCare coverage and are willing to pay a premium to protect your investment (or satisfy company purchasing rules).

For those folks who need more than a maxed-mini and/or aren't interested in an AIO like the iMac you could still sell them a one case solution. If they ever need more than the thermal envelope can handle, there's TB3 externals or add the daughter case later. This would keep a population of artists, creatives, hobbyists, institutional buyers, etc in the Mac.OSX world at a price point ($3-8K) and TDP requirement (1,100w PSU and air cooling) that would work in a wide variety of situations.

So you specify either zero or one PCIe slot...

Meaning your "Brain" box has no GPU at all, unless it uses its single PCIe slot for same...

Unless you decide we do not need a PCIe slot, then it is eGPU & all the extra cost / clutter / lower performance that eGPU brings...

Or if you DO decide to let us have a single PCIe slot, then you want to use it for a clunky / cluttered expansion box...

Sorry bruh, your solution is no solution at all...

 

[jscipione]

Taking into the account that Apple tried to (re)launch butterfly keyboard three times... yes, they definitely may try to make one more “dense mac pro”.

That is not fair, Apple designed the butterfly keyboard for the 2015 MacBook and kept the design for the next 3-4 years making minor iterations. The trashcan's time is over - the next Mac Pro will be getting a redesign similar to the force touch keyboard they will ship in the mbp this year or next. They promised that the next Mac Pro will be modular, we've yet to see what that means but taken at face value it means a tower.

 

[AidenShaw]

but taken at face value it means a tower.

You know nothing, Jon Snow.

Nobody knows anything at this point - but the simple fact is that Apple could have shipped a tower two years ago. The silence is deafening, and worrisome for people who are hoping for an updated tower.

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...lar-mac-pro-new-external-display-at-wwdc-2019

Depressing...

What's depressing about that is largely the laziness of what I refuse to call journalism.

Yet another complete failure of critical thinking to perpetuate the 'stacking boxes'

There are not going to be stacking bloody boxes.

The idea that they're going to create this bizarre pile of hot-swappable minis is ridiculous.

The bulk of people who buy one will keep it in a standard configuration.

Those who do upgrade bits will do it what, once every two years?

The idea that every time you change something you discard an expensive box to replace it with a new one is really, really stupid.

 

[goMac]

What's depressing about that is largely the laziness of what I refuse to call journalism.

Yet another complete failure of critical thinking to perpetuate the 'stacking boxes'

There are not going to be stacking bloody boxes.

The idea that they're going to create this bizarre pile of hot-swappable minis is ridiculous.

The bulk of people who buy one will keep it in a standard configuration.

Those who do upgrade bits will do it what, once every two years?

The idea that every time you change something you discard an expensive box to replace it with a new one is really, really stupid.

It's compatible with what I've been hearing.

 

[kelvin.lau]

Looking forward to the Mac Pro:

* water cooling
* CPU delidded, liquid metal thermal paste

=)

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

It's compatible with what I've been hearing.

Well obviously I could be wrong, but it seems environmentally wasteful and inefficient, and also inelegant. Every other product Apple makes, every single one, is all about clean lines and minimalism. Stacking boxes doesn't fit with that, and the flagship product is certainly not going to look like multiples of the cheapest machine Apple sells.

And I still think that allowing the end user to have frequent contact with sensitive connectors between multiple boxes is a warranty and support nightmare waiting to happen. And if the boxes were to be locked securely together by some ingenious means, then surely it's an over-engineered solution in search of a problem. Although I'll concede Apple has form with that.


You claim to have information, but I think you're going to have to add something credible other than vague "it's a bit like that but not" type comments.

I could imagine a design where there's a solid base into which you slide a replaceable module, kind of like these tube amps where the tubes are a design feature:

And for the mouth breathers out there, no I don't mean exactly like this image, just imagine modules that are all the same shape and design that can be removed and replaced into a base which contains I/O and PSU.

Also, I'm not saying I think the above is a good idea. But it could be made to look more elegant than a stack of separately powered boxes which I think is nuts.


I still think it'll be a larger and more flexible take on the current Mac Pro. Maybe not a cylinder, probably bigger but still something that looks sealed and 'carved from a solid block' like the rest of their products.

Happy to have rotten apples tossed my way if I'm wrong.

 

[Peace]

If Apple shows a new cinema dispay at WWDC I can almost guarantee they will show the Mac Pro along side it.

That would be a huge selling point. Both sold side by side.

 

[Perezx]

That is not fair, Apple designed the butterfly keyboard for the 2015 MacBook and kept the design for the next 3-4 years making minor iterations. The trashcan's time is over - the next Mac Pro will be getting a redesign similar to the force touch keyboard they will ship in the mbp this year or next. They promised that the next Mac Pro will be modular, we've yet to see what that means but taken at face value it means a tower.

I meant that they have built FAULTY keyboard and then, instead of reversing back to “good old one”, made at least two unsuccessful attempts to reiterate.
Same could happen to dense-packed macs - one miss, two misses... why not to try third ?

 

[pcd109]

Looks like Apple is late to the party. Again.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/elite-family/elite-slice-desktop.html

I am sure Apple version will be much more powerful and with a ton of extra features, but still, second place.What puzzles me is why a pro with wait for Apple 6 years(as in SIX freaking years!!!!!) to put their s***t together. I was with them since System 6.5 days, but forced to move to something more versatile(as in Quadro graphics and updated Xeons). Once i stop using intensive computing and renderings for a living, will move back to MacOS/Apple for my casual computing. I just hate windows....

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

Looks like Apple is late to the party. Again.

https://www8.hp.com/us/en/elite-family/elite-slice-desktop.html

I am sure Apple version will be much more powerful and with a ton of extra features

This HP thing illustrates perfectly why Apple wouldn't do similar for the Pro.

It's fiddly and fussy, customers are going to break those connectors and if the current Mac Pro had thermal problems, imagine this sandwich of individual little ovens with no air flow. Might work in the low-powered conference room capacity that HP have designed theirs for.

And what's the advantage of being able to stack it yourself if it then won't ever be un-stacked again? Or at best re-stacked after a year or two when something meaningful is released. What happens to the old bit of the stack? In the bin? Back to the Apple Store?

Something like this does not fit the "our most powerful, highest throughput ever" machine that's been promised.

 

[Biped]

Looks like Apple is late to the party. Again.
https://www8.hp.com/us/en/elite-family/elite-slice-desktop.html

I get a strong feeling that, that thing is meant to be a teleconference device. Not necessarily your HPE Z series in a stackable mini config.

 

[JesterJJZ]

I get a strong feeling that, that thing is meant to be a teleconference device. Not necessarily your HPE Z series in a stackable mini config.

Probably, but they definitely looked at all the stackable MacPro rumors for inspiration on this.

 

[skippermonkey]

The best suggestion I've seen was a tower enclosure with dedicated CPU/GPU/RAM/storage modules that slot inside it. Whether this is Apple's approach, I've no idea, but the concept looked really convincing, and fulfilled the modular approach without looking like a rats nest of cabling or an overheating pile of Mac minis in Tower of Pisa configuration.

I do know one thing: if it's not previewed (previewed, mind) at WWDC I will be extremely disappointed. How long will they make us wait for what is, essentially, just a desktop computer. Wish I'd bought an iMac Pro at launch now; I'd have had a good two to three years out if it before this upgrade finally appears,

 

[Perezx]

Probably, but they definitely looked at all the stackable MacPro rumors for inspiration on this.

In the beginning, there was Mac Mini.
And then, since 2005, almost every company making computers, made a copy.
So whats so surprising in fact, that HP decided to combine their copy of Mini and well-known idea of dockstation?

Lets note, that there is no modules offered for RAM, GPU etc - just some stuff that is usual for notebook dockatstions.

Finally, its no Mac Pro at all. Its Mac Mini. A bit expensive and with golden top

 

[askunk]

What's depressing about that is largely the laziness of what I refuse to call journalism.

I was referring to the fact that the author was pointing to a 2020 release.

 

[Mikael H]

I was referring to the fact that the author was pointing to a 2020 release.

Perhaps the author has been listening in on the echo chamber that is the vocal part of the current Mac Pro online fanbase. This group consists entirely of people who have no idea what will be released or when. The fact is that while some members of this fanbase have various degrees of area specific knowledge that can make individual guesses better than others, we won't know until Apple says so.

Would it be depressing if the product was released in 2020? Yep.
Do I have any reason to believe that Roger Fingas knows more than I do? Not based on the contents of his article.

 

[barmann]

My point was if Apple was mainly concerned about sales and profit they would simply build another tower unit similar to the old cheesegrate because they knew it sold well.

There has to be a reason other than pure sales/profit behind this.

Blessed be your innocence !

Trashcan, butterfly keyboard, touchbar, no ports, a lot of releasing nothing, iMac Pro, ...
Sometimes even the most successful companies lose touch and are in a downward spiral .
[doublepost=1557230774][/doublepost]

Perhaps the author has been listening in on the echo chamber that is the vocal part of the current Mac Pro online fanbase. This group consists entirely of people who have no idea what will be released or when. The fact is that while some members of this fanbase have various degrees of area specific knowledge that can make individual guesses better than others, we won't know until Apple says so.

I agree that noone knows anything re the next MP .

I don't agree that there is an echo chamber as you suggest, but rather a fairly consistent opinion on Apple's Mac offerings and development, or lack thereof .
A view that has developed over several years and is shared across the board .

However, I suspect there is an ivory tower .

 

[pcd109]

I get a strong feeling that, that thing is meant to be a teleconference device. Not necessarily your HPE Z series in a stackable mini config.

Already stated that: "I am sure Apple version will be much more powerful and with a ton of extra features, but still, second place".
And no, it's not only a teleconference device, it's a full computer with Windows 10 OS, regular intel cpu and gpu etc. What is it's advertised main usage, that's another story. What puzzles me is that you guys don't see the bigger picture. HP has moved to steal the crown from Apple as the most 'innovative' in computing by making the first ever modular computer. No matter what Apple are going to do, they will always be on the second place. The main issue is that HP received a LOT of former Apple workstation users and they want to retain that new segment. Make no mistake, this is a move directed at Apple modular macpro. When it will be launched, HP will advertise their Z workstation against it and will use their low end computing to mock Apple(we have a modular desktop, but for real computing we have real Z workstations). My bet is someone has leaked something to HP about the next Apple modular macpro and they directed this jab at Apple.

 

[grad]

The cylindrical Mac Pro was/is a great idea, let down by Apple's stupid marketing and pricing policy. An big/noisy ATX based tower that contains GPUs/mechanical disks/everything creates more problems than it solves. And yes, "pro" users are NOT just youtube vloggers/unboxers who pretend to be videographers. If you assume that graphics designers, musicians, programmers, web developers, researchers, etc are perfectly fine with an iMac or MacBook Pro you might be wrong. If Apple is serious about the pro market it should either come with more than just one product or introduce something that can scale well.

 

[Mikael H]

I don't agree that there is an echo chamber as you suggest, but rather a fairly consistent opinion on Apple's Mac offerings and development, or lack thereof .
A view that has developed over several years and is shared across the board .

However, I suspect there is an ivory tower .

The echo chamber I was speaking of referred to various rumors about the nature of the upcoming MP: Rumors (some more credible than others) get repeated so many times that we end up with people in the "Waiting for.." thread linking to articles written by people whose source most likely is the "Waiting for.." thread, whether first-hand or a couple of times removed. Thus: Echo chamber.

That said, I strongly agree we've had an ivory tower problem inside of Apple too - and not only since Jobs' demise, if I may say so - but the very problems you mention in your post are symptoms of the latest incarnation of that issue. Let's hope they're slowly deconstructing the parts of it that hurt us, but let's not be naïve about its continued existence.