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What. No trapazoid design ?

You guys are slacking.
:p

I'll be like Alessi's Starck juicer - a tripod, the whole outside as machined aluminium cooling fin ridges, and the cables dropping down out of the middle. There'll also be special cable wraps made out of the same material as Milanese loop watch bands. ;)
 
There would be no point in offering Radeon Pro or FirePro as the drivers in MacOS don't distinguish between "gaming" and workstation cards.
The Apple marketeers will shout "FirePro" from the rooftops, even when the GPUs are midrange Radeons.

It will take Apple a long time to get above the deceit of calling the mid-range Radeons in the MP6,1 "FirePro". Both Apple and AMD lied to us.
 
HP has released workstations that go up to dual 28-core, but they've done it by accepting the huge price jumps for 8-processor capable Xeon Platinums ($10,000, where the same chip is about $3500 in a single-processor version, and the single-processor version is actually clocked slightly higher). If Apple wanted to do dual-socket Mac Pros, they'd have to do the same thing, and they'd probably be $50,000 computers in any reasonable configuration (dual-processor Z8s are in that range).

Yeah in the nearly eight years since the dual-processor Mac Pros it's kind of weird to see how their Xeon line has shifted. Getting any kind of -SP processors that combine decent clocks with high core counts requires spending a fortune.

(The default custom Z6 SKU from HP comes with 8-core -SP Bronze processors that are 1.7GHz with no turbo boost. Getting a base clock of >3 GHz for just a 6-core requires spending $4K.)

Apple's not going to build any sort of ultra-high-end tower (they never have) so that pretty much precludes dual sockets at this point. And given that a lot of the fringe benefits beyond performance Apple wouldn't be providing anyhow (they weren't going to make an eight-slot box with room for 10 hard drives) it's also kind of increasingly irrelevant.
 
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Let me correct this to "Apple is also kind of increasingly irrelevant".

HP does the high end Z options, because there is a market.

Apple doesn't want a share of that market.

I honestly don't understand why you haunt this place. Apple has never and will never make a workstation high-end enough for you. And even in the slim wedge of workstations, your needs are an even slimmer wedge. Just because some can make a profit in the sector doesn't mean that Apple needs to cater to it.
 
The Apple marketeers will shout "FirePro" from the rooftops, even when the GPUs are midrange Radeons.

It will take Apple a long time to get above the deceit of calling the mid-range Radeons in the MP6,1 "FirePro". Both Apple and AMD lied to us.

What I am even more sad about is that many of the peeps here fell for it too. Even after it was explained to them.
 
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It's not going to resemble a Mac Mini. Why make the flagship look like a bloated version of the entry level machine?

It will be striking and individual like the last one, but a bit bigger.

It's not going to be a conventional tower, or they would have released it by now.

It’s a workstation at the end of the day, not a conversation piece. I think Apple learned a serious lesson from the ‘can’t innovate my ...’ 2013 Mac Pro. It was too bold and too limited. The 2013 Mac Pro could have worked yes if it was a mid range computer; maybe something above the Mac Mini for those who wanted a cool looking computer. But I think a more conventional ‘bigger’ mini is probably where this needs to go.

The foot print will be smaller, it will have a T3 chip to handle a lot of the controllers, won’t sound like blow drier, all SSD based, USB C.

It would also pay ode to some of the Next DNA and G4 Cub which Steve loves. I just think for where Apple wants to take the idea of a powerful desktop workstation, it be right balance between sleek and practical.

Really starting to accept the idea this could be my next computer.
 
It’s a workstation at the end of the day, not a conversation piece. I think Apple learned a serious lesson from the ‘can’t innovate my ...’ 2013 Mac Pro. It was too bold and too limited. The 2013 Mac Pro could have worked yes if it was a mid range computer; maybe something above the Mac Mini for those who wanted a cool looking computer. But I think a more conventional ‘bigger’ mini is probably where this needs to go.

The foot print will be smaller, it will have a T3 chip to handle a lot of the controllers, won’t sound like blow drier, all SSD based, USB C.

It would also pay ode to some of the Next DNA and G4 Cub which Steve loves. I just think for where Apple wants to take the idea of a powerful desktop workstation, it be right balance between sleek and practical.

Really starting to accept the idea this could be my next computer.

Which is it - the MP 6.1 is no good, but a midrange super Mini, both compact and conventional, is a good thing ?
The latter is basically what the trashcan tried to be, the former is the trashcan .

What you describe is the same recipe for disaster Apple has been using since 2012 .
 
Which is it - the MP 6.1 is no good, but a midrange super Mini, both compact and conventional, is a good thing ?
The latter is basically what the trashcan tried to be, the former is the trashcan .

What you describe is the same recipe for disaster Apple has been using since 2012 .
I described the foot print in an earlier reply. Imagine something the size of 4 Mac Mini’s stacked to the height of the 2013 Mac Pro. That is four separate squares stacked to the height of the Mac Pro. That’s why I keep using the NextCube design.

That’s a lot of space to accommodate powerful Xeon based processors and high end graphics. A single Mac Mini is not that small, imagine four of them in a square. That’s a lot of space for components to support an appropriate thermal environment with other components.

The Cheese Grater Mac Pro was necessary for its time because that was an era of mechanical disks and optical disc drives and extremely hot processors. None of those are gonna be in the new Mac Pro. That in itself would cut out 25% of the tower Mac Pro.

With DDR4 RAM, you will likely be able to get 64 to 128 GBs sticks, so if you want to fill this up with 512 to 1 TB RAM, it won’t require two sets of RAM trays. The same goes for storage, in a profile like what I’m suggesting, I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple announces you could configure this with anywhere between 16 to 24 TBs of internal SSD storage.

Our concern has been what it will look like, it’s just a logical common sense design. I sense because we assume Pro with being a big honking tower, the failure of the 2013 MP and the idea of something looking like the mini would be another disaster.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s gonna be a bigger computer, it just not need to be enormously huge to deliver yearly upgrades without going back to the drawing board.
 

Partially. There are a couple of problems.

While Intel is free to make up whatever looney toon product labeling scheme they want (and they have done some hocus pocus scheme switches in the past ), a line up where everything begins with 32xx is probably wrong. Two factors. The current "gap filler" Xeon W 3175X (with 28 cores and 255W ) now is to be approximately superseded by something numbered 3275 (no X so the clock rate is way down and probably not overclockable) . This is relatively consistent with Intel's processor naming for product range too.
X Y ZZ i

X -- SKU level in the product category ( in SP's Platinum , Gold , etc. for W at the moment this is proxy for Socket 3 - 3647 2 - 2011 and price level )
Y -- generation
ZZ -- processorSKU ( cores )
i -- processor options: some optional, 'value add' feature tweaks

So with the current scheme that would indicate switch sockets all the way down. That is somewhat unlikely.
Not only the socket is different but the PCH chipset C422 ( for 2011 ) versus C620 Series ( for 3647 ) . Those aren't the same cost, power , or board space ( CPU socket + PCH ) .

So those numbers would make more sense as

W-3275
W-3265
W-3255
W-2235
W-2225
W-2223

The > 200W TDP being the larger package size. Intel using 1P ( one socket) limited SP derivatives ( 'U' option) as Xeon W badged offerings (with bigger base clocks ; probably binned dies of the dual socket flipped off. ).


The second major "problem" is the dumping of the 18 core for a 16 core option in the W line up? In fact, the whole core count thing seems a bit missed up. The missing 10 ( max for the LLC , 'low core count', die ) is another head scratcher. Possibly Intel is going to do a another somewhat overlapping 22xx series that does up to 18 cores and are pushing here that the alternative, bigger W socket all the way down into the LLC die zone ( just to be cheaper with those incompatible motherboards ) and there would be some W-3223 with huge socket and bottom out at 8 cores. [ IMHO that's a waste of time, but there are large overlapping chunks of Intel's processor offerings that also seem to be an unnecessarily complex waste of time also. AMD's Threadripper is going to "crush" in the core count space not clock space. It could be a "shoot shotgun high number of SKUs at the side of the barn" approach to competing with AMD. I somewhat doubt Apple will buy into any of that. ]

As far as the leak in the Tom's hardware article I think that at least is a subset of the Xeon W offerings coming ( perhaps it is the initial shipping set. ). Things should be clearer at the end of the month.


There is a chance if Intel is going to "fork" the Xeon W line up into relatively complete "big socket" and "medium socket" line ups that Apple could go with the "big socket". The condition would be that they were not trying to go with the "literal desktop" Mac pro path. That they'd be shooting for a volume closer to the 2009-2012 models and not so limited desktop footprint targeted. ( that doesn't line up with rumblings, but it is all super secret ... so maybe). Still would be a one CPU socket workstation. They could go to 6 DIMMs without having two DIMM sockets per controller.

The downsides to that is that it caters to the folks who are out to dramatically increase the base cost of a Mac Pro significantly higher. The "big socket" 8 core probably will cost more than the "medium" variant (and a lower base clock). Filling 6 DIMMs with 8GB ECC will cost more than 4 (and with Apple's non market memory pricing that will have impact). There are several mechanisms for Apple to leverage to simply just push average selling price higher to the detriment of a decent chunk of the Mac Pro potential market and becoming a 'hobby project' on a pricing death spiral.

Apple staying on the W-22xx path or switching to AMD Threadripper would be a saner move if they really want to invest in keeping the product over the longer term as a non hobby project.



P.S. We'll see at the end of the month, but Intel could be doing a "Crazy Ivan" with the Xeon-W line up and pushing the 22xx sequence (with 2011 socket) out much further into the year than the 32xx update. AMD's Threadripper 3 may be slipping. ( perhaps because unexpected Eypc wins are consuming Threadripper wafer starts and AMDs is going after the higher profit margin. ). Also somewhat offseting SP package sales declines by pushing more of them in the Xeon W class where the competition isn't as steep. Intel would be throwing most of the 2011 socket packages at desktop Core i9 SKUs until the 14nm product cleaned up further later in Fall (and TSMC 7nm queue is less clogged with Apple's A13 ramp and AMD can change their wafer start queue mix better. )
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I believe if apple actually got feedback from pro users (as they claimed as the reason for a such blatant delay) the mMP should be closer to the cheese grater design than my lived but flawed trash can.

Apple never claimed anywhere ( nor is likely to claim in the future), that the external feedback mechanism in the primary should of the delay.

The notion Apple couldn't start until the more formalized "Pro workflow group" was going and had been in opertiion for an extended time is a crock . Also that Apple go zero feedback from 2014-2016 is another one.

Days ago I wrote about a rumour/ leak that talks about a mMP being much like a cheese grater turned 90degress to keep vertical airflow,

turning 90 degrees is way past looney toons. First, the "cheese grater" is no primarily designed to be a literal desktop system. So the "rotation" shift thing makes little sense off the desktop. If you want to mount in a rack, 90 off vertical rotation axis isn't the only option nor does it have to be the primary rotation axis. if deskside mounted "more' fans sucking air off the dirty ground isn't an improvement for a computer system ( vacuum cleaner perhaps, but next Mac pro has no vacuum duties. )


Furthermore, if Apple is still manically trying to stick with the literal desktop shift for the Mac Pro .... that occupies a dramatically larger desktop footprint space. Extremely unlikey they would go higher than the 2009-2012 footprint which was already in the "oversized' to be a desktop footprint category.


I consider it much more plausible than the stacked mac-mini like mMP or the NeXT cube reborn, let's see, I'm ready to be disappointed again.

In a contest of assembling a large collection of less plausible solutions, the rank ordering of implausibility isn't much of an overall informative value add.
 
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I described the foot print in an earlier reply. Imagine something the size of 4 Mac Mini’s stacked to the height of the 2013 Mac Pro. That is four separate squares stacked to the height of the Mac Pro. That’s why I keep using the NextCube design.

That’s a lot of space to accommodate powerful Xeon based processors and high end graphics. A single Mac Mini is not that small, imagine four of them in a square. That’s a lot of space for components to support an appropriate thermal environment with other components.

Again, you describe a tcMP .
No space for components or thermal efficiency .
Are you taking the piss ?

The Cheese Grater Mac Pro was necessary for its time because that was an era of mechanical disks and optical disc drives and extremely hot processors. None of those are gonna be in the new Mac Pro. That in itself would cut out 25% of the tower Mac Pro.

Fair point on harddrives and optical bays, but I wasn't aware CPUs have become less hot, or that GPUs need les cooling considering current requirements .

With DDR4 RAM, you will likely be able to get 64 to 128 GBs sticks, so if you want to fill this up with 512 to 1 TB RAM, it won’t require two sets of RAM trays. The same goes for storage, in a profile like what I’m suggesting, I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple announces you could configure this with anywhere between 16 to 24 TBs of internal SSD storage.

Here's the trouble with big RAM sticks and high volume, fast SSDs - they are VERY, VERY expensive .
While there has been some progress, prices for faster components have not been in sync with affordability for years .

Our concern has been what it will look like, it’s just a logical common sense design. I sense because we assume Pro with being a big honking tower, the failure of the 2013 MP and the idea of something looking like the mini would be another disaster.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s gonna be a bigger computer, it just not need to be enormously huge to deliver yearly upgrades without going back to the drawing board.

I don't know about your concerns, I'm just not sure they are our concers, whoever we might be . ;)

I'm just concerned about the recent increase in postings that suggest the MacPro 6.1 wasn't so bad after all, and a similar design approach might be just fine .
 
Again, you describe a tcMP .
No space for components or thermal efficiency .
Are you taking the piss ?



Fair point on harddrives and optical bays, but I wasn't aware CPUs have become less hot, or that GPUs need les cooling considering current requirements .



Here's the trouble with big RAM sticks and high volume, fast SSDs - they are VERY, VERY expensive .
While there has been some progress, prices for faster components have not been in sync with affordability for years .



I don't know about your concerns, I'm just not sure they are our concers, whoever we might be . ;)

I'm just concerned about the recent increase in postings that suggest the MacPro 6.1 wasn't so bad after all, and a similar design approach might be just fine .
Well, you seem to be getting heated with this. WWDC is less than a month away, we’ll see what Apple has designed then. If I’m wrong on my analysis, then I’m wrong. But i’m certainly not gonna become crazy about it to start arguments. It’s just a unit hooked up to a bitmap display at the end of the day.
 
Yeah in the nearly eight years since the dual-processor Mac Pros it's kind of weird to see how their Xeon line has shifted. Getting any kind of -SP processors that combine decent clocks with high core counts requires spending a fortune.

It is the only part of the market Intel can still make money on with their (current) inability to get past 14nm. Ditto the "Extreme Gaming Edition" i9 and i7 CPUs.



The Cheese Grater Mac Pro was necessary for its time because that was an era of mechanical disks and optical disc drives and extremely hot processors. None of those are gonna be in the new Mac Pro. That in itself would cut out 25% of the tower Mac Pro.

Well the extremely hot processors part likely will be. :p:D
 
WWDC is less than a month away, we’ll see what Apple has designed then.

Maybe. This is yet another one of those rumors that gets repeated so often that people start treating it like a fact. We may get Mac Pro info at WWDC, but we may not. Earlier this year everyone seemed confident that we’d learn more at NAB. The fact is, we don’t know when we’ll find out.

I do agree with others that the longer we have to wait the less likely the news will be good.
 
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Well, you seem to be getting heated with this. WWDC is less than a month away, we’ll see what Apple has designed then. If I’m wrong on my analysis, then I’m wrong. But i’m certainly not gonna become crazy about it to start arguments. It’s just a unit hooked up to a bitmap display at the end of the day.

I couldn't agree more .
Lobbying for a yet to be released MacPro is inappropriate .

However, Apple will be treated less gentle this time around, if they release an MP that even remotely resembles the trashcan approach again .

Regardless of their social media efforts to sell the kind of design some advertise, it just won't fly .
 
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Maybe. This is yet another one of those rumors that gets repeated so often that people start treating it like a fact. We may get Mac Pro info at WWDC, but we may not. Earlier this year everyone seemed confident that we’d learn more at NAB. The fact is, we don’t know when we’ll find out.

I do agree with others that the longer we have to wait the less likely the news will be good.


I wonder if there will be at WWDC ( or has been in the past ) a conscious effort to make sure none of the demos on display, display the stock app with AAPL.
 
Here’s the real deal.

xha6HYY
 
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I wonder if there will be at WWDC ( or has been in the past ) a conscious effort to make sure none of the demos on display, display the stock app with AAPL.

Their stock almost always drops after announcements. And yet they still seem to soldier on.
 
I honestly don't understand why you haunt this place. Apple has never and will never make a workstation high-end enough for you. And even in the slim wedge of workstations, your needs are an even slimmer wedge. Just because some can make a profit in the sector doesn't mean that Apple needs to cater to it.
Boy, are you off the mark here.

My home workstation is a Dell T3610 - same 2013 hex-core Xeon E5-1650v2 as the hex MP6,1, with 128 GiB RAM and a Quadro P2000 GPU. My workstation at the office is an entry Dell workstation with a Xeon E3-1270v2 (quad core), 32 GiB RAM, and a GTX 960 card.

I hand the ball back to you.
 
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I just want my 8" cube ARM cluster modular Mac Pro (sixteen A13X Bionic APUs / 256GB RAM / 8TB SSD), with a 6K3K Apple Cinema Display, & the big surprise is a Space Grey Apple-branded back-lit mechanical keyboard...!
 
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