Ice Lake looking like it may get a sizeable IPC increase from Cascade lake so even if Ryzen 3xxx manages to outdo Coffee lake on IPC front, its lead may end up being very brief.
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MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)
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Ice Lake looking like it may get a sizeable IPC increase from Cascade lake so even if Ryzen 3xxx manages to outdo Coffee lake on IPC front, its lead may end up being very brief.
I'm not sure how much work moving Macs to AMD would require... The problem is that it's only viable for desktop macs (all of them) and a small subset of the portables. Apple sells far more notebooks than desktops, and there are two major holes in AMD's CPU line...
Here's what it might look like
Mac Mini - Ryzen 3/Ryzen 5 - fine, Zen 2 Ryzens make it look even better.
iMac - Ryzen 5/Ryzen 7 - fine, without Zen 2 series the top end takes a hit, but the 3000s may very well fix that.
iMac Pro - Threadripper - would look better if AMD were clear about a Zen 2 Threadripper.
Mac Pro - EPYC - Rome (Zen 2)allows for some high thread counts, even pre-Rome is competitive.
But the portables...
MacBook - nothing nearly as compelling as Intel's ultra-low power CPUs
MacBook Air - possibly low-power Ryzen APUs
MacBook Pro (13") - the only portable that benefits - the top Ryzen APUs are competitive with Intel mobile quad-cores in CPU power, but have better GPUs.
MacBook Pro (15") - nothing at all - AMD doesn't have a mobile CPU above quad-core, and at least I haven't seen a rumor of a Zen 2 version. The 15" carries up to an 8 core i9 CPU with a near 5 GHz turbo (as of today).
Here's what it might look like
Mac Mini - Ryzen 3/Ryzen 5 - fine, Zen 2 Ryzens make it look even better.
iMac - Ryzen 5/Ryzen 7 - fine, without Zen 2 series the top end takes a hit, but the 3000s may very well fix that.
iMac Pro - Threadripper - would look better if AMD were clear about a Zen 2 Threadripper.
Mac Pro - EPYC - Rome (Zen 2)allows for some high thread counts, even pre-Rome is competitive.
But the portables...
MacBook - nothing nearly as compelling as Intel's ultra-low power CPUs
MacBook Air - possibly low-power Ryzen APUs
MacBook Pro (13") - the only portable that benefits - the top Ryzen APUs are competitive with Intel mobile quad-cores in CPU power, but have better GPUs.
MacBook Pro (15") - nothing at all - AMD doesn't have a mobile CPU above quad-core, and at least I haven't seen a rumor of a Zen 2 version. The 15" carries up to an 8 core i9 CPU with a near 5 GHz turbo (as of today).
I could see Apple transitioning away from Intel to AMD & ARM...
Ryzen 3 / 5 - Mac mini / iMac
Ryzen 7 / 9 - iMac Pro / xMac (one PCIe slot - x16)
Threadripper - Mac Pro (three PCIe slots - x16, x16, x8)
Apple stays with Intel in their laptops while AMD builds them custom 'high-end' APUs for the MacBook Pros...
ARM for the low-end laptops (MacBook / MacBook Air)...
Eventually, Mac mini would be the first desktop to transition to ARM...?
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There have been some recent rumblings about Navi running into a bit of trouble:
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3075129/amd-navi-20-gpus-delayed
https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-radeon-rx-gpu-rumors-navi-20-2020-rx-navi-graphics-cards/
AMD running a bit hot and consuming more power than the competition while not quite reaching their performance levels is something I'll buy without question given my own experiences with their hardware.
I don't think they are a good fit for whats surely going to be a rather compact case design. If Apple think they can get away with a workstation that is not Nvidia-based then I'm betting the Mac Pro will receive the underclocked models again.
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3075129/amd-navi-20-gpus-delayed
https://wccftech.com/amd-navi-radeon-rx-gpu-rumors-navi-20-2020-rx-navi-graphics-cards/
AMD running a bit hot and consuming more power than the competition while not quite reaching their performance levels is something I'll buy without question given my own experiences with their hardware.
I don't think they are a good fit for whats surely going to be a rather compact case design. If Apple think they can get away with a workstation that is not Nvidia-based then I'm betting the Mac Pro will receive the underclocked models again.
They could also lower the specs of the next years minis... (So it would be again a cheaper Mac, this is what "mini" meant, lower specs, lower price, smaller package than the big ones. Of course the problem, at the present time is that there is not a big Mac (Pro or whatever) for sale anymore, hope they will fix this and give us again options for the desktop/workstation line (except the all in one iMacs).
Good points .
I think Apple's stubbornness is a major factor in this .
They've just put another bandaid on the dreaded butterfly keyboard issue, and they cling to the MBP touchbar like anyone has asked for it, ever ...
As for Apple having been working on the MacPro successor for all this time, I lean towards the theory that they actually didn't do much until fairly recently , and initially hoped they could bury it with the iMac Pro .
Which, if true, would be further proof of Apple being in a state of denial re. current computing requirements, of the economic realities of their customers, and possibly even in a design death spiral .
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It's just a Photoshop glitch, probably the same one that shrank the leaf to less than average size .
If by "cherry pick", you mean an entire category of software i.e. render engines.
Weren’t the mac pro and imac pro introduced at wwdc? It mustn’t be such a bad place to introduce hardware.
Hmmm...
What if by some engineering witchcraft one could choose between several CPUs to go into a workstation computer ?
What if one could choose between having 1 or 2 CPUs in one and the same machine ?
Crazy talk, I know, ...
Really.....debating over MP being introduced WWDC....
It's 2019, MP should be introduced at WWDC, MP should be released in July, September latest...
Most have moved from Apple to PC since 2013 and this is the nail......
You know what, it seems to me that for a few years most of the entire Mac discussion has been about what Apple will not do .
I'm waiting for WWDC ............Apple can do what ever they want and my decision/response will be accordingly.
I've had enough
I've had enough
If the MP is good, I'll trade in my iMac for it. For that, I would basically need nVidia support (or at least drivers on the Mac platform).
If the MP is a turd, I might trade in my iMac towards a low-mid range MacBook Pro (for iPhone/iPad game dev) and get a more powerful PC or PC laptop with a big honking nVidia GPU.
I was glad to see a spec bump on the MacBook Pro this week, but I'd rather have a more powerful GPU and only 6 cooler cores in the MBP. I hope the next MBP refresh brings new GPU hardware from AMD.
If the MP is a turd, I might trade in my iMac towards a low-mid range MacBook Pro (for iPhone/iPad game dev) and get a more powerful PC or PC laptop with a big honking nVidia GPU.
I was glad to see a spec bump on the MacBook Pro this week, but I'd rather have a more powerful GPU and only 6 cooler cores in the MBP. I hope the next MBP refresh brings new GPU hardware from AMD.
You don't want the m.2's overheating either. This looks like all the heat is going to simply radiate to the top and needs to escape through that top mesh part, which it won't do as well as it looks like it would do. The radiator should be at the top and the motherboard at the middle, to allow cool air to come in from the bottom and carry the hot air off the motherboard up to the radiator and its heat which would go out the top as well. This seems like a really kooky set up to me. Also, the PSU might do better at the top or it needs some sort of cooling channel that doesn't simply pass it's hot air over the motherboard. Just my 2¢.
if no announcements at WWDC, I'll be building a windows PC at the end of the year. I am tired of the pathetic, throttling hardware Apple puts out at outrageous prices. Apple has all the empathy in the world for their shareholders, very little for some of their loyal customers.
Deconstruct, you're one of the most knowledgeable and personally, respectable posters on here. I always look forward to and value your posts. I'm having a hard time understanding why you get so triggered when discussing a MacPro debut at WWDC. Apple has previewed and launched new hardware several times at WWDC, as several of us have pointed out. Just the fact that the 2013 MacPro was introduced that WWDC is enough to think it will happen again.
Not trying to stir anything. Just baffles me why you seem to almost take it personally somehow.
It wouldn't be as bad as a "Lego" Mac Pro. Again, I'm not personally a fan of a Lego Mac Pro concept, and I'm not sure I'd even buy one. A cMP without the case sort of thing wouldn't as bad.
I'm a little skeptical though because I can't see Ive signing off on a giant empty backplane if you only use a few modules. Ive also likes small, and a backplane is not small. The other sites seem fairly specific about a Lego like design, and that seems like the sort of nonsense Ive would come up with.
But I'd be happy to be wrong. I'd be very happy to be wrong about the whole modules thing if Apple released a PCIe Mac Pro. But at this point, it seems more likely to me Apple would make things not easy or simple.
I definitely can't see Ive or Apple executives signing off on that.
I know, it's a Pro machine, but I don't see Apple shipping anything that requires "lane budgeting" these days. A decade ago on the 2006s they were able to ship that. But I don't see executives signing off on it. I think it'll be a complicated mess of PCIe switches that inflate the price of all the modules.
I don't think Apple has shifted away from appliance like computers. I think they'll just be shipping the Mac Pro as a collection of appliances they control instead of a single appliance. I'm pretty sure they're going to learn the wrong lesson here.
Whatever Apple does has to get past Ive and the design team. I know it shouldn't be that way, but that's the way it is. And Ive has a certain vision for what Apple products should be. I'm not sure that's standard PCIe cards and backplanes.
Plus the design team knows how boundary pushing a lego Mac would be, and that's a siren song that sounds like something they couldn't resist.
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I'm not so sure about the public part .
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In what way would that be significantly different from the trashcan - apart from a much higher pricepoint - and what lesson could Apple possibly learn in the future if they haven't learned from that dumpster fire ?
And who would give a toss ?
Each "box" would be it's own thermal zone, which would solve the thermal problem. And the boxes would be swappable, which solves the user upgrade problem.
Aside from that, no, not that different from the trash can. But those are probably the only two issues Apple sees with the trash can, especially from the design side. I kind of doubt Apple sees the proprietary-ness of the trash can as an issue.
Everyone here thinks the issue Apple will learn is that they should be using standard PCIe cards. I don't think Apple believes that at all, and they'll be happy to tell people to connect standard PCIe cards in Thunderbolt enclosures if people need to use a card. One of the other sites already specifically said this would be the approach they'd be recommending on a stacking Mac Pro.
(And that degree of specificity again makes me suspicious the rumors are true.)
Honestly, the more complicated people try to make this thing, the less likely it is to happen, IMO.
Considering the Mac Pro is the second-slowest selling model in the Mac family (behind the Mac Mini), anything that would make it:
1) More expensive to design (due to making it multiple components);
2) More expensive to manufacture (due to having multiple components);
3) More expensive to warehouse and ship (due to having multiple components in their own boxes);
4) More expensive to update on a semi-regular basis (12-18 months schedule);
5) More expensive to sell (via higher MSRPs to maintain desired margins due to the above four points)
Seems totally counter-productive.
Are we going to see a general PC like the 2008-2012 models? I doubt it.
But I believe what we will see will be closer to that than the 2013-2019 model.
Considering the Mac Pro is the second-slowest selling model in the Mac family (behind the Mac Mini), anything that would make it:
1) More expensive to design (due to making it multiple components);
2) More expensive to manufacture (due to having multiple components);
3) More expensive to warehouse and ship (due to having multiple components in their own boxes);
4) More expensive to update on a semi-regular basis (12-18 months schedule);
5) More expensive to sell (via higher MSRPs to maintain desired margins due to the above four points)
Seems totally counter-productive.
Are we going to see a general PC like the 2008-2012 models? I doubt it.
But I believe what we will see will be closer to that than the 2013-2019 model.
It seems to me that there are plenty of valid reasons for not producing a 'LBVWMP' (legoBlockVapourWareMacPro). And should they decide to produce just that, it is all the reasons you need as a consumer NOT to buy one.
But I guess, if you squint, there is some brilliance in it. Apple will get to license another nonstandard connector. They save more money in production by reducing the cable length to zero. It is kind of a coy way to solve the rats nest cable problem.
Yep. They'd get full control over the supply chain and accessories, and could charge whatever outrageous prices they want for upgrades.
They don't have a problem doing ridiculous custom designs. That's not the lesson they're going to learn here. I'd be happy if it was a tower, but is Ive going to design something that isn't completely custom?
Again, I'm not saying it's a good idea. I personally don't think it is. But it's exactly the sort of bad idea that modern Apple would do.
You can almost imagine them pulling another "can't innovate my ass" by touting the first fulling modular workstation.