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Isn't the point of the Z2/Z4/Z6/Z8 series that you can configure more affordable systems if you don't need all the bells and whistles?

Exercises to add options to HP's "xMac" to bring it to rough equivalence with the MP7,1 are pointless if you don't need or want those options.

It's more to puncture the usual criticism that Apple is somehow overcharging for what you get, which is only rarely the truth. That they provide a system that isn't flexible enough for people's pricing is another question entirely.

Playing around with HP's configurator to get it as close as possible I still end up at $4K without factoring in the processor (which obviously is an apples to oranges comparison.) But you're getting no TB3 and generally less expansion.

Also, in regards to the "maybe they should take a page out of APple's playbook"—their configurators have always been cluster****s. You can easily set up impossible configurations, there's no clear explanation of what some choices are for, and some are just pointless (why is there an option to save $7 and get a PS/2 connected keyboard in 2019? Who is this for?) If Apple is too few choices, I'd say HP is too many.
 
The full set of QNAP/Synology systems is pretty broad . Some of the higher end stuff is reasonable in more a few contexts . For example

https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/ts-ec1080 pro

Database Directory Services ( active directory / LDAP ) , DNS , would work fine . These servers are capable of running virtualized contains and are ESX approved . They are not limited to only the primary NAS OS instance .

All databases aren’t only huge piles of stuff for data mining and/or high end transaction rate OLTP .

Shops that are Windows purity in mindset would probably veto , but could be an option .

Again context; some will argue filesystems are database-esque; and there is no shortage of crossover projects; flatfile api's and DB as FS projects. If you want to muddy the point with noise, we can continue this path.

This is a goalpost issue;

The type of contexts we are talking about that have funding to go throw at z8/macpro level of hardware, are not going to put their ldap, or development/QA/production servers on a qnap or synology.

Yes I'm aware they have some virtualization features, freenas and others have been doing that and docker containers for a while.

This is old news. My little putput in the garage, has a motor in it, just like a ferrari has a motor in it. I'm not doing things in my putput that a ferrari does.
 
I think OpenGL and OpenCL is already tossed out the window?

I meant "like OpenGL and OpenCL" in the general sense, not specifically. The "Open" in those two names. Also the significant amount of deployed code that depends upon those libraries.

As much as folks point to the Mac Pro 2013 'problematical hardware issues, Apple's lazy approach to making OpenCL 'first class' on macOS was also a factor. Metal eventually came and somewhat cover a subset of that ground, but it came so late as to do essentially nothing to help the momentum of the Mac Pro 2013.

It's still there in zombie mode, but Apple has made pretty clear it's going away soon.

Apple itching to rip something out when don't have a fully formed replacement is a problem. If kill off X-Windows then will loose folks who are in camp who were using macOS as a 'better' Unix workstation OS.

Apple is supposedly gearing up to eject scripting tools from macOS bundle. Python . Perl , Ruby etc. A Unix OS and there no Perl or Python ? That is really creditable? Sure folks will be able to use package managers to add them back in but it is yet another 'hole' that Apple is punting on. ( and Microsoft is heading in about 180 direction in terms of developer support with Unix like tools . ).

What's next ... they are going to start ejecting shells too?

Apple can narrow down to a niche where only care about XCode developers and that is it. Long term that isn't gong to help the Mac Pro market grow though.

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I don't think the server variant is that important of a metric.

Exact same attitude Apple assigned to the Mac Pro for 2013-2017 period. Which is extremely indicative that their general attitude really hasn't changed much two the product. That more likely this 2019 model is far more a hobby project and that when Apple has finished it they'll go back to almost solely working on their "day jobs" full time..

If they weren't serious about they shouldn't have mentioned it in the first. Just throwing it out there for a dog and pony kicker again is highly indicative that their attitude toward this space really hasn't changed much at all. And that the same behavior is the more likely expectation.

Back in 2017 there were a lot of folks who expected the Mac Pro to come out in 6 months of less because Apple was going slap a somewhat available board into a new case and ship. Well this server model is about just that. They really shouldn't need a new logical board. All they really need is a new container and perhaps some fans with slightly different dimension. If moving the TB ports from the top to the front is throwing them for a long delay loop ....... that doesn't saw much for their collective organizational talent level to deal with future technological improvements in a timely fashion.

Seems like everything is on track. They haven't announced a date, but that's very Apple. We last heard September, and the last thing heard from the rumor mill is that China has already started production runs.

Rumors also said they were ramping up production on AirPower too. That working was just around the corner. Apple had real systems on stage at WWDC , but the rumors were that they were trying to ramp production ; not that they were in a viable production. I don't think it is ApirPower status but until it does ship in volume they still haven't done a real 'do' (as oppose to talk).

One hold up is that the new Mac Pro won't work without 10.14.6. There are features there for things like the Infinity Fabric needed.[/QUOTE]

Given Apple demoed the Infinity Fabric stuff in 10.15 at WWDC, this sound more likely like a backport hack than something going "according to plan". ( unless the 10.15 ones were rigged demos. )


Even if Apple manages to start shipping a small number of Mac Pros in September ( and generate another round of MP shortages stories like in 2013-2014 ) they would only filled in about 1 foot of an 6-8 foot deep hole they had dug themselves. Flaking in the sever model basically would put them at about zero progress by the end of 2019.
 
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One thing about the base config that's somewhat meh, the 580 has no TB3 ports in the card itself, DP is routed internally and you should have to use the available ports (IO card or top - well, not really) to connect the Pro Display XDR.
Not a big deal, some will say. But, to me, it kinda sucks. I doubt anyone will use the top ports, for obvious reasons. There are only 2 ports on the IO card, if one is taken by the display you only get one left for everything else, at the back that is.
Maybe additional cards will be made available, by Apple or others, but still...
But again, any other card used, apart from the Vega MPX options, will suffer from this issue.
 
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One thing about the base config that's somewhat meh, the 580 has no TB3 ports in the card itself, DP is routed internally and you should have to use the available ports (IO card or top - well, not really) to connect the Pro Display XDR.
Not a big deal, some will say. But, to me, it kinda sucks. I doubt anyone will use the top ports, for obvious reasons. There are only 2 ports on the IO card, if one is taken by the display you only get one left for everything else, at the back that is.

If someone can afford a $999 stand and a $5K XDR than there is probably going to be a pretty good chance they can afford a Solo Vega II card. At which point the above is moot. I really don't see the rational workload that matches the entry system up with a the XDR in the majority of cases.

The bigger disconnect with the entry configuration is not with the XDR, but the more common base of displays that take DisplayPort. So two DP displays could consume both Type-C ports on the i/O leaving only the top two TB ports for Thunderbolt. It may have been more helpful to have one mini-DP and one HDMI port on the 580X card itself. Two HDMI ports probably does work with the widest set of monitors.

Maybe additional cards will be made available, by Apple or others, but still...
But again, any other card used, apart from the Vega MPX options, will suffer from this issue.

If most of the folks were coming up to this Mac Pro from the Mac Pro 2013 that might represent a sizable population. However, if there are a sizable group coming up from the 2009-2012 era Mac Pros over switching over from Windows/Linux then this seriously won't be that much of a deal. The GPU cards those are coming from likely either match up with having monitors for the HDMI outputs or that modern replacements for those cards have the set of DP and HDMI mix that they were likely using in the previous system they were upgrading from.
 
DP to HDMI is also a common cable, isn't it?
It's a cable that definitely exists, yes. Buy why would you want it? DisplayPort is a far superior display standard than HDMI, so you'd be degrading the image with a cable like that.
 
What if you had a display that was HDMI-only? More likely with a portable computer, because many such displays are projectors...
 
DP to HDMI is also a common cable, isn't it?

Depends upon context. In the subset of the population with TVs as standard part of the workload end points HDMI will definitely be the dominating monitor connector.

Even Mac Pro GPU card option has at least one HDMI 2.0 port.

The entry 580X has two HDMI 2.0 Ports. It may be a common (easily available) cable but why make folks buy it if those types of displays are part of their normal set up?

I think it might have helped if the 580X has a mini-DP port and a HDMI 2.0 port. I think would have covered more "what folks already have" monitors in the Mac Pro user space. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Apple didn't want to "go back" to the mini-DP connector (primarily just forward to something 'new' like HDMI 2.0 ).

But yes for the Vega II Solo and Dual you'd need a DP type C to HDMI adapter to match the two HDMI ports on the entry 580X.
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What if you had a display that was HDMI-only? More likely with a portable computer, because many such displays are projectors...

For Mac Pro context, projectors in view and edit room might be more on track with the Mac Pro instead of forking off into laptop zone.

Similarly. referencing output on "end user" TV and common "end user" computer monitor.


In a audio focused context folks without "top of the line" video screen(s) that have DVI + HDMI inputs and may need two if there are two of those.

The two HDMI 2.0 ports on the 580X does though look like some corner case Apple was chasing. ( or a nudge for folks into the new UltraFine updates they have done and onto the TBv3 ports. )
 
I think it might have helped if the 580X has a mini-DP port and a HDMI 2.0 port

USB-C/TB3 to mDP adapters are common and cheap. It’s the way I use mDP monitors with newer Apple gear.

I’m actually surprised they included two HDMI at all, given how common USB-C to HDMI adapters are. Microsoft even makes a really nice active one that converts DisplayPort to HDMI for not much money.
 
So, when is the Fall, exactly? :)
We could be about a month away, but I'd bet October only. We have the iPhones in September already.
I'm starting to do the math and wondering if it's really worth it. Guess I'll wait for the first reviews and decide.

I was gonna mention the updated Ultrafine displays. They are now actually what they should have been from the get go.
They're still fugly, but the specs are now what one would expect.
If only they looked like the old TBD or the new XDR, I'd get the 5K in a heart beat.
Those should be Apple monitors, not LG.
And the price is right.
Apple, please do your thing and design something nice around it :)
 
So, when is the Fall, exactly? :)

My money is on November / December.

I could see October if Apple does launch the rumored "top-end" 16" MacBook Pro then. Apple could then have their "ultimate" desktop (Mac Pro) and "ultimate" laptop (16" MBP) to anchor their "Pro" Mac line-up.




As for an Apple-branded 5K display, I just feel Apple doesn't see the market for it. The Thunderbolt Display is generally considered to be a failure on this board and if that was the case, then Apple is not going to want to repeat that "mistake" by offering a 5K Thunderbolt Display that will mostly sit in warehouses and on display in Apple Stores.

Better to let LG take the risk and LG is not going to want to invest a lot of money into it's design if they, too, don't expect to sell many. So they just put the panel in a cheap plastic case and call it good.

LG seems to feel widescreen "5K" displays have a stronger market which is why they put some effort into their Ultrawide design.
 
Intel is already selling the Xeon CPUs that Apple will be using, so my guess is that Mac Pro 7,1 will be available as soon as Catalina ships in September.
 
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Yep, I can see both Pro machines being released alongside, the whole Pro lineup refreshed would make great headlines.
I was very fond of the TBD, too bad there wasn't a Retina 5K one. It was gorgeous and with updated specs, 5K and TB3, it would have been awesome.
But no LG for me, thanks. Too bad those are not Apple's design.
 
So, when is the Fall, exactly?
A few weeks ago, for only a couple of hours, Apple accidentally changed the Mac Pro webpage to say it releases in September. So if that was accurate, we may see it pretty soon.
It just as easily could have been a placeholder text though. So who knows.
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As for an Apple-branded 5K display, I just feel Apple doesn't see the market for it.
Well, there’s certainly a larger market for an Apple display than an LG display, amongst Apple users. And I think what he’s suggesting is to simply rebrand the Ultrafine displays as Apple displays and release them under Apple’s brand. Basically just take the displays as they are now but put them in a better looking aluminum chassis with an Apple logo. Surely Apple could do that. They already co-developed it with LG. And more Apple users would be interested in that, since it would actually look good and match their devices.
 
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Well, there’s certainly a larger market for an Apple display than an LG display, amongst Apple users. And I think what he’s suggesting is to simply rebrand the Ultrafine displays as Apple displays and release them under Apple’s brand. Basically just take the displays as they are now but put them in a better looking aluminum chassis with an Apple logo. Surely Apple could do that. They already co-developed it with LG. And more Apple users would be interested in that, since it would actually look good and match their devices.

I remain skeptical. The LG monitor is $1299. Assuming they would do what they did with the Thunderbolt Display and make it an actual docking station (so 2xTB3/USB-C, 4x USB-A, Ethernet, SD Card and Audio Out), the price would be at least $1499 if not $1599.

That is perilously close to the price of a base iMac 5K at $1799. People complained the original TB display was overpriced at $999 (even though it offered much more connectivity than the previous Cinema Display at the same price) so I expect even more complaints at $1499-1599.

It has been claimed (likely with merit) that people passed on the ATD in favor of third-party "ugly" 2560x1440 displays - especially to pair with iMacs - because they were significantly cheaper for similar panel quality and because they didn't need the docking station capability of the TBD (which added to the cost compared to a pure monitor).

I did buy an ATD with my 2014 iMac 5K, but sold it with my iMac when I upgraded and went with a much cheaper (but still high-quality) UHD display as a secondary display because I didn't need the extra expansion ports of the ATD and the lack of an adjustable stand meant it sat lower next to my iMac unless I used wood blocks to prop it up. This new display also has multiple inputs so I could use it with other input sources and supports the much higher refresh rates of my gaming PC's video card.

As such, I do not believe the market is there - and neither, it appears, do Apple, who have much better insight into the true size of that market.
 
I remain skeptical. The LG monitor is $1299. Assuming they would do what they did with the Thunderbolt Display and make it an actual docking station (so 2xTB3/USB-C, 4x USB-A, Ethernet, SD Card and Audio Out), the price would be at least $1499 if not $1599.

I've heard whispers that the Ultrafine displays that are exclusive to Apple are usually products that Apple has built that they don't want to do final designs for, produce, or market.

So the Ultrafine 5k is the Apple designed Thunderbolt display. They just decided they don't want to be responsible for it.
 
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I've heard whispers that the Ultrafine displays that are exclusive to Apple are usually products that Apple has built that they don't want to do final designs for, produce, or market.

So the Ultrafine 5k is the Apple designed Thunderbolt display. They just decided they don't want to be responsible for it.

Makes sense, to be honest. Apple can work with LG on certain design elements important to them yet not have to be responsible for production and warehousing.
 
I've heard whispers that the Ultrafine displays that are exclusive to Apple are usually products that Apple has built that they don't want to do final designs for, produce, or market.

So the Ultrafine 5k is the Apple designed Thunderbolt display. They just decided they don't want to be responsible for it.
Horse hockey without a link to a reliable source.

Apple fans often pass along claims of special deals for Apple or claims of co-designed products.

Most of the times these are fabricated stories - or worse. At best, as is probably the case with the LG monitors, it's simply that Apple has tested the monitors, and maybe contributed feedback about minor firmware tweaks that were needed.

Co-designed? LOL
 
Horse hockey without a link to a reliable source.

Apple fans often pass along claims of special deals for Apple or claims of co-designed products.

Most of the times these are fabricated stories - or worse. At best, as is probably the case with the LG monitors, it's simply that Apple has tested the monitors, and maybe contributed feedback about minor firmware tweaks that were needed.

Co-designed? LOL

Can't tell you where I heard it. But that's what I heard. It's why LG has the relationship with Apple they do. What I heard is literally that the Ultrafine 5k started at Apple, then Apple decided they didn't want to be responsible for it and handed it to LG.

It's also similar to how Promise is the one selling the hard drive bays for the new Mac Pro, even though the Mac Pro was clearly designed with those hard drive bays in mind. Sometimes Apple doesn't want to do the release and marketing for something so they pass it off to a third party.
 
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