MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[danwells]

The AMD traces are really interesting, because AMD CPUs would be at least as good an option as Intel if not better on every desktop Mac from the Mini to the Mac Pro (well, the Mac Pro would need Threadripper 3, which isn't out yet).

The problem is that something like 80% of Mac sales are notebooks. This isn't a great reference, but it's the best I could find...
https://mac360.com/2019/11/no-the-macbook-is-not-a-disaster/

There is no superior AMD alternative for any of the notebooks. The only Ryzen notebook CPUs/APUs in existence are 15W Zen 2 models that are about equivalent to 8th Generation 15W Intel chips - some of them are Navi-integrated APUs that have much better iGPUs than the comparable Intel chips, but the CPUs are about the same...Certain models have upconfigurable power (up to 35W), but that's mainly used by the GPU.

In the 13" MacBook Pro, there would be a tradeoff. Decreased CPU performance for increased GPU performance... In the Air, the Navi models aren't an option, and all you'd get is decreased CPU performance. There is no AMD alternative that would fit in a little MacBook. The 16" MBP has a much higher power budget, and both the CPU and GPU performance is much higher than anything AMD offers in a CPU or APU that runs off batteries.

My assumption (and many other people's) has always been that Apple depends on Intel for the notebook CPUs, and Intel gives them good deals and priority in return for not looking to AMD for the desktop CPU business. Many of the big PC makers are either fully or mostly Intel-exclusive, and I'd always thought that notebook CPUs were probably the sword Intel hung over the makers' heads...

 

[goMac]

AMD's APUs are technically _very_ similar to Apple's A series. Using AMD would let Apple bring most of the Metal performance bits that have been iOS only to the Mac, without giving up x86.
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Is there such a thing? I've never heard of such and in 2011 Apple was seriously looking at using the AMD Llano APU in the Air before AMD stuffed production so Apple had to "fall back" to Intel.

It's been mentioned in rumors, but the details of the deal are private. It seems like the deal has been renewed a few times, but this time it won't be.

Intel will give generally give favored status to vendors who are Intel only. You get cheaper prices, priority access, a bit more room for custom designs. If Apple was going to have multiple CPU vendors, they'd have a pretty good reason to stop using Intel, because they'll stop getting sweetheart prices.

One of the only sources of the Intel/Apple exclusivity deal seems to actually be AMD themselves, who've raised it in antitrust hearings:
https://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD...lusivity-Deal-with-Apple-in-2005-112405.shtml

 

[OkiRun]

Let's cut to the Chase ~
Best case, worst case scenarios for the Mac Pro 7.1 CPU upgrade offerings one year, two years, and three years out.

 

[mattspace]

Let's cut to the Chase ~
Best case, worst case scenarios for the Mac Pro 7.1 CPU upgrade offerings one year, two years, and three years out.

If you're talking about the CPU as a post-purchase upgradable part for an existing machine...

Most likely case - CPU's won't be considered by Apple to be upgradable in any way, shape or form (and DIY will make the machine ineligible for any form of support, until returned to factory CPU). Additional storage, memory and PCI cards are the upgrade points. If you want a new, faster CPU, that's going to require a whole new chassis.

 

[Coyote2006]

Let's cut to the Chase ~
Best case, worst case scenarios for the Mac Pro 7.1 CPU upgrade offerings one year, two years, and three years out.

Worst case? New CPU Socket for next gen Xeons, no main board update for 7,1 owners ( I doubt that 7,1 owners will EVER be able to buy a new main board in the Apple store)

Another worst case? New iMacs are as fast as MacPro (at least for single CPU workload)

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Let's cut to the Chase ~
Best case, worst case scenarios for the Mac Pro 7.1 CPU upgrade offerings one year, two years, and three years out.

Cooper Lake and Ice Lake processors are a different socket type than Cascade Lake. Sapphire Rapids and Granite Rapids will be a different socket than those. You'll be able to switch between various W-3200 CPUs (i.e. start with the 8-core and later upgrade to 12/16/24/28) but won't be able to move to the next generation.

 

[shuto]

I would love to know - when the 580X half height Radeon Pro MPX module is installed, will both of the 300W auxiliary power via two 8-pin connectors be available?

So would it be possible to run Radeon Pro 580X MPX + Radeon VII + Radeon VII. (Aka I'm cheap skate).

It looks like it could work looking at the motherboard, but I guess there is no way to know until someone tries it.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

I would love to know - when the 580X half height Radeon Pro MPX module is installed, will both of the 300W auxiliary power via two 8-pin connectors be available?

So would it be possible to run Radeon Pro 580X MPX + Radeon VII + Radeon VII. (Aka I'm cheap skate).

It looks like it could work looking at the motherboard, but I guess there is no way to know until someone tries it.

I'd expect that would be fine but likely noisy

 

[Mago]

Catalina beta drivers finding only confirm apple at least is testing an AMD Apu, does not confirm any future product, we have to state that.

But...

You can have Thunderbolt 3 on AMD platform, right now, but there are not

Pragmatically USB4 it's an rebrand for tb3, just add faster 10gbps USB mode.

Mac Pro would need Threadripper 3, which isn't out yet).

Need to check the news, it was officially announced the same day as mbp-16.

Consider most motherboard from ASRock with x570 chipset (Ryzen 3000) offer thunderbolt 3 either already integrated or thru AIC.

Also just announced AMD TRX40 chipset (threadripper 3000) is often bundled with thunderbolt 3, but is know AMD has a 64 cores threadripper and a workstation chipset (TRX80) in pipeline, all these along the custom APUs provide solid if not better alternatives for the whole Mac product line.

Few things we don't know: that "VanGogh" Apu hasn't been benchmarked yet, it obviously should be more powerful than Matisse Apu, if so Matisse Apu are good enough for MacBook / MBA, and VanGogh APU s for MBP 16/14 Mac mini iMac 21, and Ryzen 3000 + rx5400/rx5700 for iMac 21/27 as well for a trash can reboot, and Threadripper 3000/TRX40 for the iMac Pro + rx5700/Vega II, and Threadripper TRX 80 for 2021 imMP.

The best for apple is most of these Chip may be just licensed and build at TSMC for apple.

Foot note: as noticed no solid tb3 support in AMD before Zen 3, as well Threadripper 2000 didn't offered better workstation performance than planned Xeon for imMP, and Epyc don't offered a fast 16 core for base imMP, so I think Apple was even planning an all AMD imMP but timing forced to select Intel workstation platform instead, but things for next year seems quite different as AMD product line is better in every respect (including technical, security and availability aspects), and all the steps for the move have been completed, apple is no more Intel's inmate.

 

[koyoot]

So far I think this custom work for AMD seems a bit overstated as being some kind of "all in" Apple investment. Apple just pulled a dog and pony show at Austin factory ( probably to get something they wanted or want going forward). Burping out older (at this point) Zen stuff .... we'll see. Posturing for discounts (and/or higher priority in queues) or mass exodus may depend on a actually earnest "bake off" between the two vendors.

Custom work, in the context of traces found in MacOS Catalina means, that Apple has Van Gogh samples.

Semi-Custom APU, designed by AMD, and ordered by... somebody from the outside.

Older APUs are there for testing, that everything: OS, Apps work flawlessly on AMD CPUs.

Thirdly:

The AMD traces are really interesting, because AMD CPUs would be at least as good an option as Intel if not better on every desktop Mac from the Mini to the Mac Pro (well, the Mac Pro would need Threadripper 3, which isn't out yet).

The problem is that something like 80% of Mac sales are notebooks. This isn't a great reference, but it's the best I could find...
https://mac360.com/2019/11/no-the-macbook-is-not-a-disaster/

There is no superior AMD alternative for any of the notebooks. The only Ryzen notebook CPUs/APUs in existence are 15W Zen 2 models that are about equivalent to 8th Generation 15W Intel chips - some of them are Navi-integrated APUs that have much better iGPUs than the comparable Intel chips, but the CPUs are about the same...Certain models have upconfigurable power (up to 35W), but that's mainly used by the GPU.

In the 13" MacBook Pro, there would be a tradeoff. Decreased CPU performance for increased GPU performance... In the Air, the Navi models aren't an option, and all you'd get is decreased CPU performance. There is no AMD alternative that would fit in a little MacBook. The 16" MBP has a much higher power budget, and both the CPU and GPU performance is much higher than anything AMD offers in a CPU or APU that runs off batteries.

My assumption (and many other people's) has always been that Apple depends on Intel for the notebook CPUs, and Intel gives them good deals and priority in return for not looking to AMD for the desktop CPU business. Many of the big PC makers are either fully or mostly Intel-exclusive, and I'd always thought that notebook CPUs were probably the sword Intel hung over the makers' heads...

You forget about two things. Raven Ridge, Picasso is in the drivers only for testing purposes, and Renoir, and Van Gogh are next generation APUs.

8C/16T designs with 15CU Vega GPU(most likely this is the GPU config) in 45W TDP - Renoir.
What is Van Gogh? Nobody knows at this point.

But it is not, and will not be off-the-shelf product, that anybody can use.

The only APU that can fit in the description of 13/14 inch MacBook Pro is AMD Dali. 4C/8T 15W TDP with 6/9 Vega CUs.

 

[deconstruct60]

....
Pragmatically USB4 it's an rebrand for tb3,
....

Pragmatically it somewhat doesn't rebrand TBv3 because for hosts computer systems it doesn't require TBv3 to be present. It is helpful in ending the 'try to suppress it " battles some vendors had waged on it , but USB-IF left significant loopholes for folks to escape is maximizing lower cost implementation.

USB 4 spec at usb.com
p. 49
"... A USB4 host or USB4 peripheral device can optionally support interoperability with Thunderbolt 3 (TBT3) products. ..."


p. 468
"... A Router uses the TBT3 Not Supported bit to indicate whether or not it is TBT3-Compatible. This chapter does not apply to a Router with the TBT3 Not Supported bit set to 1b. ..."

There is a path to slap the official USB4 label on a host that can't do Thunderbolt v3 at all. The only variant that is required to do TBv3 interoperbility on all ports (up and down) is something the standard is calling a "USB Dock" . There would be no need for the "not supported" bit if TBv3 interop was going to be ubiquitous.

just add faster 10gbps USB mode.

Again no. USB4 requires the presence of USB 3.2 ( which few systems have implemented ) that goes 20Gb/s. At some point in these serious about what Mac Pro was coming next , 3.2 was suppose to be the final death nail for Thunderbolt by the folks who wanted it to go away. Now the role is going to get somewhat reverse with TBv3 demand going to push out 3.2 into wider distribution by USB-IF attaching TBv3 to the standard and always mandating 3.2.

A significant chunk of USB4 is USB-IF trying to push 3.2 up the adoption hill because there hasn't been many takers so far.

Few things we don't know: that "VanGogh" Apu hasn't been benchmarked yet, it obviously should be more powerful than Matisse Apu, if so Matisse Apu are good enough for MacBook / MBA,

The rumors that is bigger GPU than Renoir ( which supersedes Picasso) . Matisse is AMD's desktop chips so faster than no GPU is why past "should be faster" in that respect. This is a bigger Vega with probably a bigger TDP to go along with it. But it probably isn't going to be in MBP 16" territory at all.

The best for apple is most of these Chip may be just licensed and build at TSMC for apple.

Apple doesn't have to license much of anything. Since the baseline Zen 2 implementation is chiplets and a discrete I/O die packaged with the chiplet all Apple would need for a variant product to form AMD to package a slightly different GPU die in the package with the other two. Not a whole lot of different design implemented by Apple if largely just playing mix and match adjusting the container (and pin outs).

Foot note:..., but things for next year seems quite different as AMD product line is better in every respect (including technical, security and availability aspects), and all the steps for the move have been completed, apple is no more Intel's inmate.

AMD's Zen roll out has been higher end Desktop and Server CPUs first and mobile last. They needed the margins to pay off debt (of numerous years of losses) and grow more healthy. So that is the big mismatch between them and what Apple needs. Their mobile could catch up to be passable for Apple in 2020. It is also a place where Intel isn't sitting still either.

 

[deconstruct60]

I would love to know - when the 580X half height Radeon Pro MPX module is installed, will both of the 300W auxiliary power via two 8-pin connectors be available?

Likely not. The power distributed to the 580X through the MPX connector is highly likely coupled to those two 8-pin connectors. There isn't 500W going there and a independent 300+W also being distributed to those connector. There may be a safe guard switch guarding that sharing or just stern warnings in the user guides ( don't plug in A if plug in B). Physically, the connectors are arranged to likely make it somewhat difficult to do.


If the MPX draw 500W and the CPU in the 240W range than that's 1.24K W from all three. It is only a 1.4K W power supply. Is there really 4 8-pin sockets worth of power just idly lying around. Not; it doesn't add up. So there is likely some sharing arrangement between the 8-pin sources and the MPX connector power. I think the wishful thinking here is that there is some mechanism to fine tune allocate that out on a "just enough" to each basis. I just doubt that. It is way simpler to to just do one or the other to protect from folks who are overzealous and "if I can plug it in then I can draw max power" situations.

Even if there is a magic genie power distirbutor, the 580X is going to suck down one 8-pin connector worth of power.... so there isn't a pair on two in that MPX bay.

So would it be possible to run Radeon Pro 580X MPX + Radeon VII + Radeon VII. (Aka I'm cheap skate).

Probably not.
580X MPX (in Bay 1 ) + Radeon VII ( in Bay 2 ) yes. Could you throw a 6-pin card into the mix? Yes.


There are probably rube goldberg hoops to jump through to get to:
Radeon VII ( in Bay 1 ) + Radeon VII ( in Bay 2 )


[ AMD stopped producing VII's so if there is a big run on those the prices are going to up. If can get them at all if demand goes too high. The cards are around but the supply is capped. ]

It looks like it could work looking at the motherboard, but I guess there is no way to know until someone tries it.

Perhaps Apple support documentation will be that horrible, but there really should be a tech note about how to go about using those shared 8-pin connectors.

 

[koyoot]

he rumors that is bigger GPU than Renoir ( which supersedes Picasso) . Matisse is AMD's desktop chips so faster than no GPU is why past "should be faster" in that respect. This is a bigger Vega with probably a bigger TDP to go along with it. But it probably isn't going to be in MBP 16" territory at all.

What makes you believe that it is not in the MBP 16 territory?

What makes you believe AMD cannot design a package like Core i7 8809G?

Again: Van Gogh is SEMI-CUSTOM product. Its not AMD designed it, on purpose, but it was ordered by someone from outside .

 

[deconstruct60]

Worst case? New CPU Socket for next gen Xeons, no main board update for 7,1 owners ( I doubt that 7,1 owners will EVER be able to buy a new main board in the Apple store)

When was there every a motherboard from Apple update for any Mac previously? That isn't a worse case. It is an 'alternative universe' case. Apple has never done that so why would there be any expectation that they were going to do it. It is up there with a hot-pink colored motherboard with disco LED lights. That isn't going to happen either.

Another worst case? New iMacs are as fast as MacPro (at least for single CPU workload)

if single CPU means single core then that is already the case. If want to do short duration single core drag racing the current top end iMac will get closer to 5GHz then the Mac Pro will. That probably isn't going to change on the next iteration of the iMac , iMac Pro , Mac Pro either.

Higher than average core count is not going to get high single core drag racing burst all based on the same micro-architecture is going more than generally be in conflict with each other.
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Let's cut to the Chase ~
Best case, worst case scenarios for the Mac Pro 7.1 CPU upgrade offerings one year, two years, and three years out.

There aren't going to be any 'new' CPU product models for the 7,1 going forward. Just more ability to buy cheaper versions of what exist now.

In terms of significantly cheaper, that is more likely in three years out. By end of 2021 both AMD and Intel will have made some major moves. That will probably sap demand a significant amount for upgrades for not just the 7,1 but all the Xeon W 32xx systems.

Most of the other vendors that sell W 32xx system will probably iterate at the end of 2020. ( which means the inventory for the current stuff will drift through much of 2021 too on increasing discounts. ).

But if willing to probably pragmatically void the warranty around the CPU and are willing to pay current full prices, the upgrades can start in year one.

 

[deconstruct60]

What makes you believe that it is not in the MBP 16 territory?

An on package GPU is not going to work as well thermally as a dGPU that the MBP 16" has.
Even if bumped from Vega 13 up to Vega 20 (on 7nm so bump the clock a bit) it will get smoked by a down clocked mid-range desktop discrete GPU with a higher TDP that the whole CPU-GPU combo.

That's why. For a system with a substantive dGPU the AMD APUs don't make any sense in the upper end laptop space. The MBP 13-14" would be far more space constrained, but it also doesn't have a substantive dGPU. It is quite easy to outperform something that isn't there.

What makes you believe AMD cannot design a package like Core i7 8809G?

This?
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...ga-m-gh-graphics-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html

the 5300M will eat that for lunch on GPU workloads; let alone the 5500M. Yeah they could make it but zero good reason why would want to couple it to a more respectable dGPU. If try to couple something too huge to the CPU chiplet then run into a "too much heat in one place" for the kind of laptop constraints that Apple assigns to the MBP line up.

Sure they could cobble something like that together. But it would be more effective in a Mac Mini than a MBP 16" in terms of being evolutionary better for that specific product.


I doubt AMD mobile offering as really "wowing" Apple much at all. Depending what they do for a new iPad Pro processor. The bigger displacement window AMD has with their APUs is perhaps for Apple's lower range of the desktop offerings more so than the upper end of the laptop line.

Again: Van Gogh is SEMI-CUSTOM product. Its not AMD designed it, on purpose, but it was ordered by someone from outside .

SEMI implies otherwise. Building something to requirements specified still means you designed it. More feedback than normal goes into it, but AMD is still doing pragmatically doing a substantive amount of the work in many cases .

IMHO Van Gogh sounds more like the Renoir was too weak to cut the mustard and this is just a bump to another GPU they already had with a bigger TDP for the package. I think it is about as likely to go into a product category that AMD didn't initially target with Renoir than just higher on the same product line path.

 

[koyoot]

An on package GPU is not going to work as well thermally as a dGPU that the MBP 16" has.
Even if bumped from Vega 13 up to Vega 20 (on 7nm so bump the clock a bit) it will get smoked by a down clocked mid-range desktop discrete GPU with a higher TDP that the whole CPU-GPU combo.

That's why. For a system with a substantive dGPU the AMD APUs don't make any sense in the upper end laptop space. The MBP 13-14" would be far more space constrained, but it also doesn't have a substantive dGPU. It is quite easy to outperform something that isn't there.



This?
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...ga-m-gh-graphics-8m-cache-up-to-4-20-ghz.html

the 5300M will eat that for lunch on GPU workloads; let alone the 5500M. Yeah they could make it but zero good reason why would want to couple it to a more respectable dGPU. If try to couple something too huge to the CPU chiplet then run into a "too much heat in one place" for the kind of laptop constraints that Apple assigns to the MBP line up.

Sure they could cobble something like that together. But it would be more effective in a Mac Mini than a MBP 16" in terms of being evolutionary better for that specific product.


I doubt AMD mobile offering as really "wowing" Apple much at all. Depending what they do for a new iPad Pro processor. The bigger displacement window AMD has with their APUs is perhaps for Apple's lower range of the desktop offerings more so than the upper end of the laptop line.





SEMI implies otherwise. Building something to requirements specified still means you designed it. More feedback than normal goes into it, but AMD is still doing pragmatically doing a substantive amount of the work in many cases .

IMHO Van Gogh sounds more like the Renoir was too weak to cut the mustard and this is just a bump to another GPU they already had with a bigger TDP for the package. I think it is about as likely to go into a product category that AMD didn't initially target with Renoir than just higher on the same product line path.

What I am implying to you is simple.

Van Gogh may be simply Renoir APU+HBM2+dGPU, on one package, with HBM2 available for CPU as High Bandwidth Cache. You still think this solution will not cut to the chase, for Apple? Does it not consist of "Designed by Apple"? Does it not consist of the name: Custom job? Does it not consist of idea of System-on-Chip/package?

You are genuinely smart man, so why is it so hard for you to think in possibilites, what AMD can actually produce, based on Apple order, and(!) Money? Its Apple who payed for design. Its Apple who will be paying for Wafers. Possibilities are endless.

 

[ct2k7]

My employer's accounting period will be ending mid next month, so if it's not out by then, blah

 

[AidenShaw]

My employer's accounting period will be ending mid next month, so if it's not out by then, blah

I'm surprised that it extends to that late. I figure that the first of December is the realistic cutoff date for placing an order where I work - and that assumes that I've received a firm official quote by the end of November.

What are the delays?

• It usually take 3 to 5 business days between creating a purchase requisition and a purchase order being sent to the vendor - sometimes even 7 business days if there are any questions
• If it's a BTO configuration (and almost all of my orders are), figure at least a week to build it assuming that all the parts are on hand, longer if there are any supply issues about getting all the right pieces to the BTO site
• The carriers (FedEx/UPS/…) are pretty busy in December, so ground transport is pretty low in priority (and finance frowns on 2-day shipment for 25kg orders)
• The site (including shipping and receiving) basically shuts down at 17:00 on 23 Dec, and reopens at 08:00 on 2 January, which makes it pretty hard to meet the "in service by end of quarter" requirement (although I define "in service" to mean that I've booted it and verified that it's not DOA)

Fortunately, our fiscal year is October to September - so slipping from December to January has no significant impact.

 

[jccmaxon]

I was waiting for the new mac pro to renew my imac late 2013 but the new threadripper 3960x will kill the mac pro. I think I'm going back to windows. This CPU can even beat the W-3275 Mac Pro and only costs € 1200 on Amazon. Apple is being dragged by Intel's bad time against Amd. thanks to everyone.

 

[koyoot]

I was waiting for the new mac pro to renew my imac late 2013 but the new threadripper 3960x will kill the mac pro. I think I'm going back to windows. This CPU can even beat the W-3275 Mac Pro and only costs € 1200 on Amazon. Apple is being dragged by Intel's bad time against Amd. thanks to everyone.

Why not Linux...? Adobe workflow?

If not consider Linux as a platform, because of this:

Linux rapidly matures, and grows as a platform.

P.S. Today are rumors that Threadripper 3990X exists and it is 64 core monster.

So basically every HEDT desktop computer, will mop the floor with Latest and greatest Mac Pro from Apple. While costing 1/4th of the price of Mac Pro.

Hah.

 

[Polymorphic]

I was waiting for the new mac pro to renew my imac late 2013 but the new threadripper 3960x will kill the mac pro. I think I'm going back to windows. This CPU can even beat the W-3275 Mac Pro and only costs € 1200 on Amazon. Apple is being dragged by Intel's bad time against Amd. thanks to everyone.

The Threadripper 3000 reviews today are pretty amazing, even if you were expecting Intel to take a beating. It seems to me that Apple brought the wrong girl to the dance...

 

[koyoot]

Jesus.

Looking at all of the AMD announcements, and reviews, I am a complete moron for going with Intel platform few months ago. Complete moron.

Anyone wan't to buy Asus ROG Strix H370-I mITX MoBo?

/joke

On a more serious note. Lets cheer up, AMD based Macs are coming sooner rather than later, based on what we know at this point.

But I will feel bad for those people who bought iMac Pro with 18 core CPUs, to find out that standard iMac with 16 core Ryzen CPU will be as fast as 5000$ machine, but cost half as much.

 

[th0masp]

I was waiting for the new mac pro to renew my imac late 2013 but the new threadripper 3960x will kill the mac pro. I think I'm going back to windows. This CPU can even beat the W-3275 Mac Pro and only costs € 1200 on Amazon. Apple is being dragged by Intel's bad time against Amd. thanks to everyone.

It definitely looks like this new computer will be far more quickly outdated in the CPU department than the trashcan and its direct predecessor both were.
Seems to me we are now entering a time of heated competition between CPU makers whereas the two older machines have 'benefited' from the slow pace of development in the last decade and have remained competitive for a relatively long time (silly non-upgradeable GPU design excluded).

Doesn't change a thing though if you just have to be on the Mac platform for your work and are yearning for something faster. But for those who expect to get a long lifespan out of this new one like with the original cheesegrater - they might find themselves at the butt end of jokes rather quickly, especially at those prices.

 

[koyoot]

Oh, I forgot.

The silicon of Zen 3 AMD CPUs is already being tested by... people, and samples are in the wild. The IPC increase, based on those samples, is higher than IPC increase was in Zen 2 over Zen +. We can expect +18-20% IPC increase, but - it will depend on workload. That 18-20% number is rough estimate of AVERAGE IPC increase, based on current samples. Next gen process on which Zen 3 is being manufactured will allow for modest clock frequency increase, but will give higher efficiency(yes, we might finally have true 65W TDP 8 Core/16 Thread CPU). We are talking about 100-200 MHz, at best, clock increase.

Zen 3 will only increase the advantage AMD has over Intel, and if Intel will not come with anything good for desktop, and they won't, its game over for them, in terms of technological viability.

Yes there is plenty to be excited about. And a lot of to be affraid. AMD already starts to enjoy price premium, that they can charge because... they have no competition. Zen 3 unfortunately will only increase this. And most likely will increase prices.

Other technical info: no SMT4. Its still SMT2.

In the context of Apple, if Apple really wants to switch from Intel to AMD, is there any question right now, from performance/watt/dollar why would they do this? Zen 3 will be huge. And we better see AMD CPU based Macs, since next year, otherwise, they will be completely irrelevant from performance perspective.

Cheap desktop, DIY PCs will be faster and much cheaper than Apple computers, and every OEM vendor, like Dell, HP using AMD CPUs in their computers will have insane advantage in performance over Apple.

P.S. Where are the people who did not believed in AMD, years ago?

 

[Joe The Dragon]

amd also has more pci-e lanes and moving faster on v4 will they have v5 when intel is just starting on v4?