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shuto

macrumors regular
Oct 5, 2016
195
110
What do you guys think will be the sweet spot if single core performance is also super important (I’m asking because I rely on after effects a lot)? 12 or 16 core? I come from an 8Core trashcan and am looking for a significant speed boost. I plan to spend about 10k.
Yeah I'd love to know if the 12C or 16C would be better for after effects. My work is about 60% AE 40% C4D, so was hoping to get 16C.

Thanks for your perspective about the trash can Mac Pro also having people say it was out of date on launch. I've been using mine to make money for 6 years with it and very happy I got it. All this threadripper chat got me scared about modular Mac Pro, and keep flip flopping between decisions. With a XDR display I'm sure this system will be one of the best for After Effects.
 

chfilm

macrumors 68040
Nov 15, 2012
3,428
2,114
Berlin
Yeah I'd love to know if the 12C or 16C would be better for after effects. My work is about 60% AE 40% C4D, so was hoping to get 16C.

Thanks for your perspective about the trash can Mac Pro also having people say it was out of date on launch. I've been using mine to make money for 6 years with it and very happy I got it. All this threadripper chat got me scared about modular Mac Pro, and keep flip flopping between decisions. With a XDR display I'm sure this system will be one of the best for After Effects.
Yea for sure, it’s gonna be a monster! Threadripper or not, really I don’t care, it’s gonna be a massive upgrade over our current setups and that’s what matters! I can’t wait :)))

And it really was like this back then, I remember I got the trashcan and my flatmate who was a VFX heavy Windows user was laughing at me..
 
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skippermonkey

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2003
649
1,644
Bath, UK
Yea for sure, it’s gonna be a monster! Threadripper or not, really I don’t care, it’s gonna be a massive upgrade over our current setups and that’s what matters! I can’t wait :)))

Same here. I've hitched my horse to the Apple cart (so to speak) and having waited so long for this machine, and having zero desire to switch to Windows – however powerful – I'll stick with my current course of action, suck up the expense and enjoy the leap in performance over my decade-old cheesegrater Mac Pro.
 
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koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Rocket Lake is a mainstream S and U product line ( https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/rocket_lake ) It isn't what Intel is doing on the SP ( and likely W ) line up at all.

Got pointers to there there is definitive backporting or folks just hoping?

RKL is 14 nm product with 12th gen iGPU. It has been backported to 14 nm process. YAY! Live long 14 nm process!

If that is the case what makes you all believe that 10 nm server parts are really coming in 2021?
 

ssgbryan

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,488
1,420

RKL is 14 nm product with 12th gen iGPU. It has been backported to 14 nm process. YAY! Live long 14 nm process!

If that is the case what makes you all believe that 10 nm server parts are really coming in 2021?

Yes I do. Not that it will matter. 2nd Half 2020 AMD will deliver Zen 3 Eypc server CPUs. Another 10-15% IPC gain Zen 4 should be in early sampling at that point.

AMD knows that it can't let up, because Intel will be back by 2022.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Yes I do. Not that it will matter. 2nd Half 2020 AMD will deliver Zen 3 Eypc server CPUs. Another 10-15% IPC gain Zen 4 should be in early sampling at that point.

AMD knows that it can't let up, because Intel will be back by 2022.
By 2022 AMD will be releasing Zen 5...

With new sockets, DDR5, and another double digit performance growths, year after year over Zen 3, let alone Zen 2.
 

ssgbryan

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,488
1,420
By 2022 AMD will be releasing Zen 5...

With new sockets, DDR5, and another double digit performance growths, year after year over Zen 3, let alone Zen 2.

Yes they will - but by the end of 2022, Intel should have something competitive.

Andy Grove once pointed out that anytime you went to a new architecture, it would be 5 years before you knew if you were successful, or blew your foot off (See: AMD - Bulldozer, Intel - 10nm).


Stephen.R, - for those of us that actually DO stuff with our computers, AMD CPUs are now important (for the 1st time in nearly a decade).

For those of us than NEED horsepower, we need to look at all of our options - especially now that we have some idea of what the 7,1 is.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053

To be an iGPU all that is required is that is inside the same package and share the main system RAM for working space. That doesn't necessarily require being on the same die. In fact, there are Intel roadmaps out there with Rocket Lake 14nm and 10nm iGPUs.

If you actually look at the chart for some characteristics of a CPU ( like AVX) instead of just hand waving at the Gen 12 GPU stuff you'll see the point. AVX 256 bits. Guess what? Sunny Cove and up are all 512

Intel can put a 14nm CPU die in the same package as a 10nm GPU die and hook them together similar to how AMD hooks 7nm CPU dies to 14nm I/O does. Multiple dies in a package don't all have to be fabbed at the same process. For example, Intel could take a subset of the cooper lake cores (which don't have a iGPU) couple about 10 of those to a 10nm Xe-LP die for the GPU, put them in a page with a shared eDRAM sizable cache and ta-da done. ( maybe weave in some tweaks to boost overclocking and max turbo. )





It has been backported to 14 nm process.

So how do you backport and loose 256 bits of functionality? You don't. Gen 12 is at least of as big of a transistor budget bloat as the Sunny Cove (and up) designs. Trying to port that back to 14nm just gets a much bigger die which isn't going to help intel much.

If that is the case what makes you all believe that 10 nm server parts are really coming in 2021?

That Intel is using advance packaging ( EMIB and/or Foveros ) ... yep that's why. Right there in your embedded chart if you were paying attention. That is going to ship in 2020; not 2021.

Intel is going to take two 10-14 core sized 10nm dies and do a Xeon SP ( and likely W series ) product. Given that they were doing 10 , 18 , and 28 core size does for 14nm going to something around 14 cores is actually less. So it really shouldn't be a major problem for 10nm+ . The volume may be down ( since take longer to "bake" (more steps/passes )) , but there are no big show stoppers here.

Intel's profit margins have a good chance of going down a decent amount, but they should be able to ship server product in 2020 to folks who aren't myopic about highest core count. ( have A.I inference workloads. have live VM images need to move between Intel servers, more even mix of single and multthreaded workloads , etc. )
 
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Stephen.R

Suspended
Nov 2, 2018
4,356
4,747
Thailand
Thanks for the attempted insult.

If you need more “horsepower” than the 7,1 Mac Pro will offer, surely you’re no longer... “waiting for Mac Pro 7,1”. presumably you should go buy a ****ing horse. Or something else where horsepower is even a relevant term. I know the Mac Pro has an option for wheels but I’m pretty sure they’re not motorised mate.

I don’t wait for my meal at a restaurant complaining how much better the pie shop down the street is.

But hey maybe some do.
 
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AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,667
4,677
The Peninsula
Sorry not sure I understand you. Are you saying it's possible to upgrade the 8 Core to a higher spec (12,16, 18 etc) but they might not be available in the future?
I think that the better answers are "possibly" or "probably", rather than "yes".

Apple could easily, and rightfully, block upgrades to models of the CPU that Apple doesn't sell. It would also be possible to block upgrades to models they sell - but that would require storing the original model info on the mobo or contacting the net.

Once these systems are out in the wild, and people report success with upgrades, then "yes" might be the right answer.
 

koyoot

macrumors 603
Jun 5, 2012
5,939
1,853
Yes they will - but by the end of 2022, Intel should have something competitive.

Andy Grove once pointed out that anytime you went to a new architecture, it would be 5 years before you knew if you were successful, or blew your foot off (See: AMD - Bulldozer, Intel - 10nm).


Stephen.R, - for those of us that actually DO stuff with our computers, AMD CPUs are now important (for the 1st time in nearly a decade).

For those of us than NEED horsepower, we need to look at all of our options - especially now that we have some idea of what the 7,1 is.
It doesn't work this way in this context ;)

Architecture here meant physical design. Failing at delivering process could mean that you chopped your foot off, completely ;) Yes, process is part of architecture. But its the basis on which any architecture can exist, and in this context - stand ;).
 

danwells

macrumors 6502a
Apr 4, 2015
783
617
Still down - they usually don't leave it down for hours for a gift card promotion. Wonder if they're going to slip something else in (iMacs or iPads, Pro or otherwise)?
 

Biped

macrumors regular
Sep 7, 2017
175
202
Back online. They had to way until iJustine made her Youtube giftcard unboxing video.

Odd, it didn't look like the CDN version of the store was down, yet they are adverting the black friday gift card there as well.
 

vailr

macrumors regular
Oct 22, 2009
207
92
Everyone is praising the new AMD CPU's, but what about the X570 chipset requiring a cooling fan?
AMD's chipsets are still inferior to Intel's, no?
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
Everyone is praising the new AMD CPU's, but what about the X570 chipset requiring a cooling fan?
AMD's chipsets are still inferior to Intel's, no?

AMD largely just outsources the chipsets to ASMedia. They haven't really been doing much there.
But the fans are in part driven by PCI-e v4 high fan out, high bandwidth, switching workloads being pushed out to the chipset. Large bandwidth at typically higher nm fab processes ( that are cheaper).

For the moment AMD's latest chipsets are doing something different. ( ASMedia and AMD had a few folks that were substantive contributors to the USB4 spec. Apple and Intel had lots more. ). I imagine Apple isn't super impressed with AMD chipsets. But they may be 'good enough'.

Apple has a number of PCI-e v4 issues to work out with the CPU being about as far as possible from the main GPU slots. It is doable but it is more work. So if the AMD chipsets are more work ... just add it to the pile for the next version.
 

Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,101
1,312
Everyone is praising the new AMD CPU's, but what about the X570 chipset requiring a cooling fan?
AMD's chipsets are still inferior to Intel's, no?

Depends. The power draw is mostly from PCIe 4.0 support being added.

But I’m not too familiar with the HEDT/Workstation chipsets.
 

fuchsdh

macrumors 68020
Jun 19, 2014
2,028
1,831
Yeah I'd love to know if the 12C or 16C would be better for after effects. My work is about 60% AE 40% C4D, so was hoping to get 16C.

Thanks for your perspective about the trash can Mac Pro also having people say it was out of date on launch. I've been using mine to make money for 6 years with it and very happy I got it. All this threadripper chat got me scared about modular Mac Pro, and keep flip flopping between decisions. With a XDR display I'm sure this system will be one of the best for After Effects.
If you’re mostly focused on AE, I’d get the 12C. Adobe’s apps and especially AE aren’t great about maximizing your potential system performance; they’re evidence that’s changing but RAM and GPU are probably the better place to pour your money especially in terms of what C4D uses.
 
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