MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[goMac]

You are correct, in 2017~2018 era. and perhaps beginning of 2019 year as well, but not for 2020. CPU market has never been this volatile in recent years. If VEGA II delivers with reasonable price, then your view may hold true even in 2020 for some people. We shall see.

It’s really early.

People are losing their minds over a chip AMD released last week.

I think the 2019 Mac Pro will sell fine. Not off the wall, but it will be fine. For most users, it will give them the power they need. And Apple isn’t alone here, most of Apple’s competitors aren’t shipping Threadripper either.

If you must have the fastest and newest at all times, by all means buy a Threadripper. But I don’t think this really rises to a failure on Apple’s part. There are still going to be plenty of vendors selling plenty of Intel workstations. For now.

And whenever you buy a Mac Pro, or any workstation, there will always be something better right around the corner. That’s just how things go.

HP hasn’t shipped their new Intel workstations yet and I don’t see anyone ripping them apart for being behind. And just like Apple, HP will keep selling Intel workstations no problem.

 

[OkiRun]

I disagree. MP 7.1 is Apple's feeble attempt at showing off people that Apple's still aiming for professional market. Otherwise, it wouldn't have taken that long to replace 2013 MP 6.1.

I see Apple's trying to change its image from thinner is better at all cost mentality which resulted in more and more departure from Mac by Professional market.
Apple first tried to remedy this by introducing iMac Pro, and MBP 16" to gain people's confidence in its portable computer. Now, MP 7.1 will be introduced to the market, and nobody will be able to say Apple's computers are for cafe mongers only.

To show off to general public, Apple must have a line of model that can show off its greatness in the top market, and they did it. MP 7.1 would probably end up as a financial failure. However, the intrinsic benefit of having the top of the line Apple and being able to show off to market that Apple's serious in computing in itself can be meaningful enough.

Personally, I welcome Apple's effort nonetheless. It's so satisfying to see Apple's giving up design over function, thinness at any cost mentality, and actualy have hope that Apple, at one day, would provide a practical model meant for serious market performance not like MP 7.1.

"...serious market performance..."

I am interested in your operational definition of this phrase. Can you elaborate so we are on the same page?

 

[defjam]

What makes even less sense to me is why a person who has chosen to migrate to a different platform would still find it worthwhile to hang around on this forum apparently to simply complain about a platform they no longer use. I'm glad you found a solution that works better for you but I'm puzzled why you are such an active participant in a thread about hardware you don't want to buy which runs software you no longer use.

I'm not complaining about it and I've already stated, despite the fact I don't need such a computer, that I may buy one. That doesn't blind me to the fact that, IMO, Apple isn't a reliable vendor for professionals.

 

[defjam]

You spoke to every “professional” using a Mac did you?

I did.

 

[danwells]

Note that there is not a single Threadripper from the "big three" workstation vendors. The HP Z6 and Z8 that are so often compared to the Mac Pro? All Intel Xeon Scalable (slightly slower clock speeds than the Mac, and huge price penalties for 8-way multiprocessing that the workstations can't use - because Intel's obstinate, it's the only way to get dual CPUs that a small percentage of customers order - but everyone pays the price penalty).

Lenovo? A wide range of Intel workstations from Core i to Xeon Scalable - and no Threadrippers.

Dell? Any Intel CPU you might want (they make a "workstation" with a Core i3), but no Threadrippers.

This isn't only last week's Threadrippers, either - no old ones, no new ones, no red ones, just blue ones...

Puget Systems makes some Threadripper computers (no new ones yet), but not yet really in their high-end workstation line, and not as easy to find on their site as they might be.

Boxx is all Intel.

For those interested in Threadripper, it might be worth someone who knows posting recommendations for high-end AMD-centric vendors who'll actually ship Windows. The only vendor name I've seen on here was something like 76 Systems, and they were Linux only. Where does one get a really nice, well-engineered Threadripper system that runs an OS that most standard software is available for?

 

[jinnyman]

It just came out. It will take some time, but if you think those major vendors will not bring out TR based or EPYC based workstation, you shouldn't be investing.

 

[danwells]

Bot no previous generations either - there have been Threadrippers for two years... I agree these are particularly compelling - but I'd have expected some uptake.

Could the big three be hemmed in just like Apple? They need mobile CPUs, and Intel makes decent prices on mobile CPUs contingent on using Xeon in workstations?

 

[CWallace]

Well Apple appears to be updating the MacBook Pro on a regular basis now with the new rumors the new 16" will be updated again next year with a mini-LED display so maybe that will move over to the desktops.

Still, until Intel gets their act together and actually advances their product beyond a few percentage points on benchmarks I am not going to get bent out of shape if Apple doesn't update every three months... Intel only just released the W-2200 series Xeons for the iMac Pro and the 8th and 9th generation Core CPUs have just been the 7th generation Core pushed harder and hotter to eke out a few hundred more megahertz (that then throttles in anything smaller than a 1990's full tower case with a dozen 120mm fans installed).

 

[defjam]

Still, until Intel gets their act together and actually advances their product beyond a few percentage points on benchmarks I am not going to get bent out of shape if Apple doesn't update every three months... Intel only just released the W-2200 series Xeons for the iMac Pro and the 8th and 9th generation Core CPUs have just been the 7th generation Core pushed harder and hotter to eke out a few hundred more megahertz (that then throttles in anything smaller than a 1990's full tower case with a dozen 120mm fans installed).

Since the 7,1 will have industry standard PCIe slots there isn't as pressing a need for Apple to update it as often. Users can upgrade it themselves until such time as Apple feels a system update is warranted. Sadly the 6,1 required Apple to keep it current unlike the 5,1 which end users have been able to keep updated themselves (within limits). Sadly the 6,1 was never upgraded and cannot be easily upgraded (save for memory and, possibly the processor depending on what one considers easy).

 

[ct2k7]

Since the 7,1 will have industry standard PCIe slots there isn't as pressing a need for Apple to update it as often. Users can upgrade it themselves until such time as Apple feels a system update is warranted. Sadly the 6,1 required Apple to keep it current unlike the 5,1 which end users have been able to keep updated themselves (within limits). Sadly the 6,1 was never upgraded and cannot be easily upgraded (save for memory and, possibly the processor depending on what one considers easy).

If only the CPU were user serviceable as a module... I’d be over the moon

 

[mBox]

You spoke to every “professional” using a Mac did you?

Yep I did too.
I work in film, desktop graphics, corporate video production, app dev and even teach at a local college.

Spoke to everyone and they are all disappointed...that the Mac Pro didn't drop today LOL!

 

[CWallace]

If only the CPU were user serviceable as a module... I’d be over the moon.

It is.

"By using a slotted processor, this mean the Xeon W can be removed and replaced by another chip. For companies, this basically makes the processor a repairable component that can be switched out for minimal downtime, rather than leaving the Mac Pro unusable and unproductive for extended periods while it goes off to be serviced by Apple itself."

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-components---answers-and-lingering-questions

 

[Blair Paulsen]

It's useful to divide users into categories, but not if it blinds us to the vast discrepancies between individuals. Technical benchmarks are useful as well, but applicability to individual use cases can vary widely.
Apple seems to have chosen a particular subset of the workstation market - creatives like video editors, etc - as their target. As a member of that demographic, I see the 7,1 as a premium priced tool that should suit my requirements. If it gets the job done with alacrity, and minimal issues - why would I care about the latest ThreadRipper?
Because I could get more performance for less you say - fair point. In fact, if TR based workstations come to market that run circles around the 7,1 for half the cost - doing tasks critical to my workflow - I may finally leave the Mac ecosystem after 33 years. As of today, my experience with Windows PCs - we have current gen shredders at the studio populated with 4 Nvidia 2080Tis - is still too janky.

 

[AidenShaw]

If only the CPU were user serviceable as a module... I’d be over the moon

It is.

"By using a slotted processor, this mean the Xeon W can be removed and replaced by another chip. For companies, this basically makes the processor a repairable component that can be switched out for minimal downtime, rather than leaving the Mac Pro unusable and unproductive for extended periods while it goes off to be serviced by Apple itself."

https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...-components---answers-and-lingering-questions

I wouldn't expect the situation to be any different than the 6,1. The socketed CPU can be swapped with another CPU - but basically from the set of CPUs that are part of the OEM offering. Nothing newer, or outside of a narrow range of product.

Also, who has ever replaced a failed CPU (that wasn't damaged by user error)? I have a few hundred sockets in my lab, and have never had one fail (except for two that I damaged during maintenance).

 

[ssgbryan]

Note that there is not a single Threadripper from the "big three" workstation vendors. The HP Z6 and Z8 that are so often compared to the Mac Pro? All Intel Xeon Scalable (slightly slower clock speeds than the Mac, and huge price penalties for 8-way multiprocessing that the workstations can't use - because Intel's obstinate, it's the only way to get dual CPUs that a small percentage of customers order - but everyone pays the price penalty).

Lenovo? A wide range of Intel workstations from Core i to Xeon Scalable - and no Threadrippers.

Dell? Any Intel CPU you might want (they make a "workstation" with a Core i3), but no Threadrippers.

This isn't only last week's Threadrippers, either - no old ones, no new ones, no red ones, just blue ones...

Puget Systems makes some Threadripper computers (no new ones yet), but not yet really in their high-end workstation line, and not as easy to find on their site as they might be.

Boxx is all Intel.

For those interested in Threadripper, it might be worth someone who knows posting recommendations for high-end AMD-centric vendors who'll actually ship Windows. The only vendor name I've seen on here was something like 76 Systems, and they were Linux only. Where does one get a really nice, well-engineered Threadripper system that runs an OS that most standard software is available for?

Velocity Micro. They have been selling Ryzen/Threadripper/Eypc systems for quite some time.

 

[gugy]

OK, we are in December now and no BTO pricing for the Mac Pro. Wow.... why is it taking so long?

 

[AidenShaw]

OK, we are in December now and no BTO pricing for the Mac Pro. Wow.... why is it taking so long?

It's a 2020 system

 

[fuchsdh]

Well Apple appears to be updating the MacBook Pro on a regular basis now with the new rumors the new 16" will be updated again next year with a mini-LED display so maybe that will move over to the desktops.

Still, until Intel gets their act together and actually advances their product beyond a few percentage points on benchmarks I am not going to get bent out of shape if Apple doesn't update every three months... Intel only just released the W-2200 series Xeons for the iMac Pro and the 8th and 9th generation Core CPUs have just been the 7th generation Core pushed harder and hotter to eke out a few hundred more megahertz (that then throttles in anything smaller than a 1990's full tower case with a dozen 120mm fans installed).

With AMD or ARM or some status quo shift certainly on the horizon, I imagine we'll see more smaller spec bump updates like this year—new GPU options, slight price cuts, storage changes, etc.—until that inflection point. The Mac has been boring for more than a decade, and that's fine. For professional uses anyhow, consistency is more important than anything else.

 

[ct2k7]

I wouldn't expect the situation to be any different than the 6,1. The socketed CPU can be swapped with another CPU - but basically from the set of CPUs that are part of the OEM offering. Nothing newer, or outside of a narrow range of product.

Also, who has ever replaced a failed CPU (that wasn't damaged by user error)? I have a few hundred sockets in my lab, and have never had one fail (except for two that I damaged during maintenance).

I should probably revise to mean a brain modular system, something which can easily be slotted in as in PCIe cards. Unlikely tech for now though.

The CPUs are socketed, but I would only attempt this after the warranty expires etc, and not in a production machine.

 

[chfilm]

This is the first I've heard about the system in question being controlled by some system administrator. With that out of the way perhaps you should consider the possibility it's the "some system administrator" who is the issue and not the system.

maybe, but I encountered other windows issues already in severaldifferent agency environments, like network folders that wont refresh on thunless

OK, we are in December now and no BTO pricing for the Mac Pro. Wow.... why is it taking so long?

It’s really nerve wrecking! I hope next week we’ll get the numbers on Tuesday maybe..

 

[CWallace]

I should probably revise to mean a brain modular system, something which can easily be slotted in as in PCIe cards. Unlikely tech for now though.

My late 1980's HP Vectra RS/25c had that. The 80386 CPU, 80387/Weitek Math Co-Processor, Intel external cache controller, 32KB of off-chip external cache and 16 DIMM slots (each with a 1MB DIMM) were all on a large "card" that slotted into the bottom of the case and plugged into the backplane which had the ISA slots and HP-HIL peripheral connectors.

 

[deconstruct60]

It’s really early.

People are losing their minds over a chip AMD released last week.
.....

HP hasn’t shipped their new Intel workstations yet and I don’t see anyone ripping them apart for being behind. And just like Apple, HP will keep selling Intel workstations no problem.

Errrr... no. HP hasn't shipped any W 2200 series options yet. They have been shipping W 3200 stuff. The Z6
https://store.hp.com/us/en/Configur...Id=&catEntryId=3074457345618619818&quantity=1

The delivery times on that page are now 12/31/19 but that has been up for weeks now (with first half December delivery dates). The 12/31 is more BlackFriday/CyberMonday clogged shipping drama more than lack of availability of ordering. ( if pick on the Xeon SP those too are 12/31 and they launched earlier. )


A bump to the iMac Pro ... yeah that has a "dog ate my homework" excuse but the Mac Pro no pre-ordering ... nope. Just behind.

Dell is a better example. The 5820 are in the same 'boat' as the iMac Pro waiting on W 2200's . The 7820 matches up better with HPs z8 which similar issues. (more of dual socket oriented solution. )

Boxx W4L (maybe shipping; no date on page but at least BTO). https://www.boxx.com/systems/workstations/w-class/apexx-w4l
[ they showed these at SuperComputing conference over a week ago so it is likely out to at least a few at this point. https://www.boxx.com/press-releases...-and-intros-a-new-data-science-system-at-sc19 . The initila PR was around same time as Apple's dog-and-pony show ( June 6th).
https://www.boxx.com/press-releases...station-featuring-intel-xeon-w-3200-processor

For the 8-16 core range for Mac Pro this doesn't particularly bode well either.

https://blog.boxx.com/2019/11/27/3950x/

AMD is expanding in their systems line up. Not going to sweep Intel completely aside but same general effects probably will somewhat impact the Mac Pro too. Mac Pro sales won't collapse but the longer Apple hides folks in the dark with zero info.... that just isn't going to help. ]

 

[basehead617]

Errrr... no. HP hasn't shipped any W 2200 series options yet.

I could be wrong but I doubt HP or Dell will ship Threadripper workstations.

 

[koyoot]

I could be wrong but I doubt HP or Dell will ship Threadripper workstations.

Dell is considering shipping Zen 2 based computers.

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Dell is considering shipping Zen 2 based computers.

Commodore is considering it as well.