Walmart Still Doesn't Accept Apple Pay in U.S. Despite Many Customer Requests

[bigchrisfgb]

How it’s measured? Every shop big or small accepts contactless payments. Even my wife accepts it when she does a craft fair as a contactless terminal is as little as £40 to buy and set up. It’s now a challenge to even find a shop, petrol station, tyre inflating machine, restaurant, cafe, pub etc etc. If contactless is accepted, so is Apple Pay as it works on the same system. I appreciate it’s not the same in the US and I don’t think anybody means to offend our American friends, it’s just surprising.

Yeah, this.

I go to a market that is on at a weekend, it basically consists of people with vans selling food, little fold away tables where they sell 2nd hand items, and artists where they sell paintings or drawings.
Pretty much everyone there has a SumUp device, which is another version of the Square device. In the shopping mall in my local city they have a stall where people sell the SumUp devices. I recently went to Manchester and in their shopping mall they also had a stall selling the devices.
I also go to a coffee place, and basically they are coffee roasters who sell wholesale to cafe’s etc. On a Sunday they put a couple of chairs and a table outside their unit which is in an industrial zone and open up for about 4 hours to the public. They too use card and contactless.

Over here the only real holdouts to contactless, are corner shops who have signed up to reckless deals where the payment terminal get a very large percentage of each transaction. As such they tend to have a high minimum spend for card, and usually do offer contactless. As time goes on we will start to see those businesses switchover to SumUp devices who have a much lower terminal charge for retailers.

Card payments are very much a part of our culture now, which is strange because my father and stepmother visited the USA in the early 2000’s and over there is where they experienced their first encounter of Chip & Pin payments, where as over here we were still swiping and signing receipts for card transactions.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah, this.

I go to a market that is on at a weekend, it basically consists of people with vans selling food, little fold away tables where they sell 2nd hand items, and artists where they sell paintings or drawings.
Pretty much everyone there has a SumUp device, which is another version of the Square device. In the shopping mall in my local city they have a stall where people sell the SumUp devices. I recently went to Manchester and in their shopping mall they also had a stall selling the devices.
I also go to a coffee place, and basically they are coffee roasters who sell wholesale to cafe’s etc. On a Sunday they put a couple of chairs and a table outside their unit which is in an industrial zone and open up for about 4 hours to the public. They too use card and contactless.

Over here the only real holdouts to contactless, are corner shops who have signed up to reckless deals where the payment terminal get a very large percentage of each transaction. As such they tend to have a high minimum spend for card, and usually do offer contactless. As time goes on we will start to see those businesses switchover to SumUp devices who have a much lower terminal charge for retailers.

Card payments are very much a part of our culture now, which is strange because my father and stepmother visited the USA in the early 2000’s and over there is where they experienced their first encounter of Chip & Pin payments, where as over here we were still swiping and signing receipts for card transactions.

I’m finding even the small corner shops around me accept it now since covid forced everybody to stop carrying cash. I haven’t carried a physical wallet for a few years now because it’s so rare not to be able to pay this way. The world is evolving though and it’ll be the same everywhere eventually.

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I’m finding even the small corner shops around me accept it now since covid forced everybody to stop carrying cash. I haven’t carried a physical wallet for a few years now because it’s so rare not to be able to pay this way. The world is evolving though and it’ll be the same everywhere eventually.

Yeah, some near me accept card but have a minimum spend, but I generally don’t shop there anyway because I don’t want to pay inflated prices, like £2.99 for a tin of beans.

But yeah, I work in an industry where I need various physical cards to go about my work, so I carry my wallet when I’m at work, because there is no digital alternative and I’m not prepared to get one of those boomer flip wallet cases for my phone and I don’t trust the MagSafe card holders.
Other than that I don’t carry my wallet. It’s also worth noting here in the U.K. there is no legal obligation to carry your driving licence whilst driving either.

 

[vmistery]

I’m not American so correct me if I’m wrong but if the card fees they pay are higher than the cost of them having that app why don’t they just charge a card surcharge for those that don’t want to use the app?

 

[bigchrisfgb]

I’m not American so correct me if I’m wrong but if the card fees they pay are higher than the cost of them having that app why don’t they just charge a card surcharge for those that don’t want to use the app?

Because that’s not the case. Apple nor indeed do they banks charge retailers more for using Apple Pay. Apple get their money from the bank. The thing is though by paying through Apple Pay, Apple blocks any sort of identifiers. The retailers don’t know what you age, sex, economic income etc is. Nor do they know where else you have shopped and what you typically buy and how much you typically spend, and where you spend it. Walmart want all that information so they can streamline their product range, possibly in store specific locations, as well as sell that data on to other companies. As well as charging the most acceptable amount they think they could get away with.
So they are refusing to allow for Apple Pay and are trying to push their customers onto their own payment platform, so they can view your spending habits.

It’s very similar to here in the U.K. As we have discussed, Tesco were the longest big name hold outs for Apple Pay. Now if you go into Tesco you essentially have to have a Clubcard to be able to shop there without paying corner shop prices, because the Clubcard offers essentially bring the cost down to the average price for key items. This way Tesco are still able to gather your data, regardless of you using Apple Pay or not, the difference is that they have to incentivise further into using a Clubcard buying awarding you points that you can spend.

My assumption is that Walmart are not as keen to reward people with points/money, and are just trying to force you to pay in a way that they desire without any compromises.

 

[buddhistMonkey]

I no longer shop at Walmart specifically because they don’t accept Apple Pay. I used to do the bulk of my grocery shopping there, and picked up a lot of non-grocery items when I made the trip, but I’ve since switched to Target and Trader Joe’s. I’ve only gone to Walmart once in the last couple of years, and it was recently, and I was irked to find that they were still holding out against Apple Pay. “Walmart Pay?” LOL, no, never.

 

[incoherent_1]

I guess from a Canadian point of view, I don’t understand how a company could control the access to NFC terminal. From my experience, any terminal that supports NFC will work with Apple Pay. It’s been a while since I’ve been in a Walmart, but I am pretty sure it works there as well in Canada

Edit: people explained to me that all the NFC capabilities are disabled, not solely Apple Pay. Still find that very weird and I don’t see the gain companies have by doing so

When it comes to payments, the US is pretty backwards compared to places like Canada, Europe, Australia, etc. I don’t know why, but my best guess is that huge corporations lobby against laws to create sensible standardization and basic security, likely in the name of protecting profits by pushing their own proprietary payment systems.

I think payment fraud has become more commonplace and accepted in the US, which has created a feedback loop where people and companies are used to it so there’s less incentive to fight it when other avenues exist to dispute or write-off such transactions (I’m an American living abroad for almost a decade, so I’ve seen both sides).

 

[boyarka]

The fee for using Apple Pay is the same as any other credit card transaction. It's a normal transaction.

If they don't want to pay those fees they would have to get rid of the terminal completely and force everyone to use their crappy app.

Well, that's what Walmard did - because they don't see why they should pay an extra fee ON TOP of their existing expenses. A fee that's a BS service that a CC does just as well but for the "amazing convinience" of being on a phone - costs just as much extra.

I can't blame Apple for being stupid - it's an amazing cash cow, but they are greedy as f***.
Had the tables been turned and govt imposed say an "NFC-tax" of the same exact % there would be demonstrations in the streets. But, oh, it's Apple, world's #1 innovative company. It's all OK then.

 

[boyarka]

What are you talking about? apple pay is an electronic payment and it does leave a trace, it isn’t 100% anonymous like cash. The merchants don’t get your true card info when you use apple pay, but your bank/cc issuer does know where the money came from and where it went.

Also, I never said apple pay was 100% free, don’t twist my words. I said merchants don’t pay extra for accepting contactless payments or apple pay. Proof of this is that even merchants in countries where apple pay hasn’t officially rolled out can still take apple pay. I used apple pay like that in Mexico for 6 years with a supported US issued card. Of course, apple makes money out of apple pay, but by asking banks/card issuers who allow their customers to add their cards to apple pay for a cut of the fee they charge merchants for accepting credit and debit cards.

I, too, stand by what I said before, WALMART DOES NOT SAVE A PENNY BY DISABLING CONTACTLESS. They do get some benefits, but saving money worth of fees isn’t one of them.

I read all you wrote, and it's all BS.

 

[monstermash]

I refer to my second post in this thread regarding the concept of distribution. Trust me when I say that you are not paying the same amount for a given product: markup, wholesale, or otherwise.

Distance? Obviously that is situational. One hardly has a choice if they are in the small towns I referred to earlier (population < 6000) and Walmart is the only option in town, versus major cities where Target, Shopko, Fred Meyer, and others are right across the street from Walmart, giving them that choice at comparable (if not cheaper) prices.



All of those have the card available in their own respective apps, or have compatibility with the Wallet App. I haven't carried my Costco or Sam's Club card in years; I open up the app, show my membership there, and I'm in. In Costco's case, when I am checking out either with a person or self checkout, the scan the code I show from my app, they ring up everything, and I Apple Pay the purchase. With Sam's Club, I check out everything through their app, and off I go. I use both apps to purchase gas.

My health insurance cards are accessible through their app; however, I will keep a copy of those cards on me for my children, as they are listed as dependents under my policy. My Auto insurance cards are accessible through Wallet.



In my 10 years of working in the PCI environment, I can tell you enough how wrong this statement is, especially with how easy it has been to commit credit card fraud based on the payment method alone. Payment method is sure as hell consequential to care about it; but by all means, don't mind when you cross a CC terminal that says "Chip and PIN doesn't work, please swipe", then have your number scraped when the card is swiped.

And yes, that has happened too many times to count.

BL.

But I don't care about credit card fraud! It's not even among the top 1 million things I worry about.

Swipe, insert, tap....I don't care.

As for my wallet, it contains the following:

1). Driver license
2). Concealed carry license
3). 1 credit card
4). Cash

No ATM/debit card, no insurance cards, no other crap. I have a very thin and slim wallet.

 

[monstermash]

If I said #1 and #2 above were in conflict, I did not mean to. They are unrelated stats.

But, if 67% of retailers in 2021 compared to 90% (per Apple so may be a bit exaggerated) in 2022 accept NFC payments, then that's a pretty whopping 23% more in one year. So many more retailers picking up NFC in just 1 year, but you say Home Depot, Walmart and Lowes (and others) have nothing to gain because the number of NFC transactions is low? Doesn't make sense why so many more retailers are jumping onboard then.

The point of the is that NFC retailer percentage went way up in the last year because of pandemic concerns.

The implication is that a lot of small retailers, ones that can't be afford to get shut down because they only have a few people working there, probably including the owners, made the switch to protect themselves.

Big companies like Lowe's and Walmart don't have to care about that kind of stuff and don't have this particular incentive to make the switch, especially given their much greater expense for doing so.

A small retailer with one terminal can make the switch for maybe $1000 and it can be done on a Sunday when they are closed. Someplace like Walmart, with thousands of terminals and thousands of locations will have to spend MILLIONS of dollars and months of time to roll it out. If there is no clear benefit TO THEM, why would they?

I can tell you that I used to have a small business. One terminal. About 50% of our revenue was cash, about 50% was credit cards. I bought the terminal for I think $600 or so. I would not replace that perfectly good terminal with an NFC one at the cost of another $600, unless i was losing a significant amount of customers as a result...and I doubt I would.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

I haven’t been inside a Walmart since last millennia.

 

[monstermash]

Well, that's what Walmard did - because they don't see why they should pay an extra fee ON TOP of their existing expenses. A fee that's a BS service that a CC does just as well but for the "amazing convinience" of being on a phone - costs just as much extra.

I can't blame Apple for being stupid - it's an amazing cash cow, but they are greedy as f***.
Had the tables been turned and govt imposed say an "NFC-tax" of the same exact % there would be demonstrations in the streets. But, oh, it's Apple, world's #1 innovative company. It's all OK then.

I don't think providing a service in exchange for a fee amounts to being greedy....it is simply "doing business".

 

[bruinsrme]

How it’s measured? Every shop big or small accepts contactless payments. Even my wife accepts it when she does a craft fair as a contactless terminal is as little as £40 to buy and set up. It’s now a challenge to even find a shop, petrol station, tyre inflating machine, restaurant, cafe, pub etc etc. If contactless is accepted, so is Apple Pay as it works on the same system. I appreciate it’s not the same in the US and I don’t think anybody means to offend our American friends, it’s just surprising.

Not offended at all. I find it interesting that it’s such a big deal.
Having friends with businesses they are constantly complaining about bank fees for credit card use. On the same token the equipment the mention of the black box cost.
The only place I use contactless is at Costco.
The only reason why is because the card is out of my wallet to scan the membership code then a tap and back in.
Otherwise “the norm” is to slide in chip up.
Maybe it’s more generational than anything else.
It’s interesting to see the passion for it though and the call for a boycott of store a not offering tap.

 

[monstermash]

I’m not American so correct me if I’m wrong but if the card fees they pay are higher than the cost of them having that app why don’t they just charge a card surcharge for those that don’t want to use the app?

Because that will drive people away. People don't like "fees" added on to stuff.

I won't avoid a business for not taking Apple Pay, but I sure as hell will if they charge an explicit fee to take my credit card, instead of just building that cost of doing business into their prices.

 

[GalileoSeven]

Why is this even news? Everyone with half a brain should know a behemoth like WM isn’t going to give up the profit and customer data they hoover up using their own system

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Right, they freaked out over you using Apple Pay 🙄

One person did! She wanted to know what I just did, if I was using some kind of 'secret'.

I showed her Apple Pay, and she was aghast that it was so easy and asked if she could have it on her iPhone. 'Yes, go to the Wallet app and set it up there'. She was so surprised and amazed that it worked so well. I also once checked out with my Apple Watch and someone thought I was stealing because I didn't use a credit card. I quickly explained Apple Pay and the Apple Watch. Yeah, people used to be freaked out, and I'm sure some still are. It's sad but funny...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I used to love Tractor Supply. Now everything in there - EVERYTHING - from clothes to tires to tools... whatever... is from China. And not the kind of Chinese factories that turn out Apple devices and other high-quality products. We're talking cheap, mystery-brand stuff. Harbor Freight level and worse.

And Koch industries garbage. I didn't know they made so much crap. Wow...

 

[boswald]

Eeeeeew!

Of course, you could use it with Apple Pay (;

Not at Walmart though.

 

[monstermash]

Not at Walmart though.

Just have to go to Canada first.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Holy cow 19 pages here…

I just want to jump in and point out that probably more than 99% of iPhones in circulation support Apple Pay (you need a phone that’s almost 10 years old to be unsupported)

The idea that low income people don’t use iPhones is just completely detached from reality. No matter what income level you live in, you basically NEED a modern smartphone to live life in the USA. For many low income folks, a decent phone is their primary computer and therefore still a sensible area to invest in.

So, setting all other erroneous thoughts aside (like that *only* low income people shop at Walmart), I hope we’ve put an end to this “poor people don’t use iPhones” BS in this thread.

Wow... You sound so sure of yourself.

You CAN survive without a smart phone. Lots of people do it. Tens of millions I'd imagine. Many people also use prepaid and those fraudulent '*************' post paid phones. People make what the upper class would call bad decisions every day because that's all they can afford. Like going to a 'rent to own' place to get furniture or large kitchen appliances. Yeah, they may realize they are paying more for the stuff in the long run, but where those places get them is that they can't drop $10,000 for new furniture, they don't make enough money to get a new iPhone 14. They don't have the cash to buy the things you claim people HAVE to have to survive.

THAT is why they are sucked into Walmart, and Dollar General, and Family Dollar, and on and on. Rent-to-own is all they can afford. A 20-year old car is all they can afford, and barely at that. Tractor Supply becomes their go-to store for almost everything they need that the local Walmart doesn't have. All while Walmart forces their suppliers to make their products in China, Taiwan, Korea, Bangladesh... Sure Walmart is a US company, sure the disappearing middle and lower classes are desperately addicted to Walmart. Sure Walmart is recklessly addicted to profit above all, and killing their customers jobs seems to be collateral damage? And Walmart forces there employees unto the social programs their contributions ironically seek to end.

Yeah, Walmart is a great company. Walmart if a parasite feeding off of just about everyone at the same time.

Walmart buys so much salmon that they will buy the stuff that no one else will because they have to have it in their stores. We tried Wallmart hamburger for a party years ago, and the smoke and grease that came out of that stuff was shocking. I've never seen that much black smoke and had that much of a problem with grease flame outs, wow...Their brands have been on recall lists so many times that they could be labeled a public threat. Listeria, salmonella, and then the other contamination issues from cobalt to lead...

Walmart can poison their customers, can kill their jobs, refuse to use Apple Pay (first world problem), and their customers still flock to their stores, ironically funding their financial end. And in too many towns and villages around this country, Walmart is their only choice. There are third world areas in America, and you will find Walmart and the others doing well there.

 

[monstermash]

I don't HAVE TO or NEED TO have a smart phone. It is a CHOICE OF CONVENIENCE.

Problem is that people today have become so addicted to convenience and easy life that they confuse it with actual need.

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a teenager about 10 years ago:

Teen: when you were my age, you didn't have cell phones, right?

Me: that's right

Teen: how did you stay in touch with your friends when not at school?

Me: we called them on the phone at home.

Teen: what if they were not home?

Me: then we left a message...IF they had an answering machine.

Teen: (eyes wide open)....speechless

You can tell he just had no concept of not being in instantaneous communication 24/7 with anyone he wanted....but it is CONVENIENCE, not NEED.

 

[monstermash]

Wow... You sound so sure of yourself.

You CAN survive without a smart phone. Lots of people do it. Tens of millions I'd imagine. Many people also use prepaid and those fraudulent '*************' post paid phones. People make what the upper class would call bad decisions every day because that's all they can afford. Like going to a 'rent to own' place to get furniture or large kitchen appliances. Yeah, they may realize they are paying more for the stuff in the long run, but where those places get them is that they can't drop $10,000 for new furniture, they don't make enough money to get a new iPhone 14. They don't have the cash to buy the things you claim people HAVE to have to survive.

THAT is why they are sucked into Walmart, and Dollar General, and Family Dollar, and on and on. Rent-to-own is all they can afford. A 20-year old car is all they can afford, and barely at that. Tractor Supply becomes their go-to store for almost everything they need that the local Walmart doesn't have. All while Walmart forces their suppliers to make their products in China, Taiwan, Korea, Bangladesh... Sure Walmart is a US company, sure the disappearing middle and lower classes are desperately addicted to Walmart. Sure Walmart is recklessly addicted to profit above all, and killing their customers jobs seems to be collateral damage? And Walmart forces there employees unto the social programs their contributions ironically seek to end.

Yeah, Walmart is a great company. Walmart if a parasite feeding off of just about everyone at the same time.

Walmart buys so much salmon that they will buy the stuff that no one else will because they have to have it in their stores. We tried Wallmart hamburger for a party years ago, and the smoke and grease that came out of that stuff was shocking. I've never seen that much black smoke and had that much of a problem with grease flame outs, wow...Their brands have been on recall lists so many times that they could be labeled a public threat. Listeria, salmonella, and then the other contamination issues from cobalt to lead...

Walmart can poison their customers, can kill their jobs, refuse to use Apple Pay (first world problem), and their customers still flock to their stores, ironically funding their financial end. And in too many towns and villages around this country, Walmart is their only choice. There are third world areas in America, and you will find Walmart and the others doing well there.

A lot of "poor people" make ridiculous purchasing decisions because they buy what they want, not what they need.

My wife and I make almost $300k/year. We bought a house for $135K, well below what we "could have" bought (our payment is $1K/month). Our vehicles are 16 and 6 years old respectively. Never in our life have we ever considered buying $10K worth of furniture. Our sofa came from a yard sale. We have ONE TV in our house. It is 12 years old and sits on a free TV stand we got from Craigslist. We have ONE computer - it is an 8 year old Mac Mini. My wife has an iPhone XR. Yes, I have a 14, but only because my XS died from a Dr. Pepper overdose. Our child doesn't have any "gaming consoles" with a bunch of expensive games, but does have a Fire tablet that cost about $100.

Plenty of poor people live better than we do. They can't afford it. I don't feel bad for people who spend themselves into oblivion because they buy what they they feel entitled to or want, not what they need.

There are also poor people who struggle to get by, even buying what they need rather than what they want. I'll save my sympathy and charity for them.

 

[TraceyS/FL]

I’m sure in 23 pages it has been brought up, but I tried to ApplePay at Home Depot the other day - card wasn’t in my wallet.

No ApplePay, no more PayPal, no TAP of any kind, no nothing but go back to the car to see if it was in the center console.

That frustrated me more than WM ever has - because they had it, then they took it away.

 

[monstermash]

I’m sure in 23 pages it has been brought up, but I tried to ApplePay at Home Depot the other day - card wasn’t in my wallet.

No ApplePay, no more PayPal, no TAP of any kind, no nothing but go back to the car to see if it was in the center console.

That frustrated me more than WM ever has - because they had it, then they took it away.

I have forgotten my wallet when going to Home Depot and Lowe's more than once. It sucks.