Wanting to get a nMP soon. when is the 7,1 coming out?

[Umbongo]

Don't forget the 2007 model(2.1).

Don't forget the 2007 refresh.

Eh that's not really a relevant release for what was being discussed. They didn't discontinue any existing models, just added a single CPU option. The only difference between the 2,1 release and the December 2009 addition of a 3.33GHz 4-core option is it getting a model number - which I assume they later realized was a bit daft and didn't do again.

What is more relevant is they have followed Intel's release cycle for the most part, just skipping 2012. With a range of 1 month before to 5 months after Intel's street date.

 

[Korican100]

My guess is that the price will stay about the same, but the performance will increase - that's why I'm waiting (also because I want to avoid the First Gen Blues).

what are the first gen blues?

 

[calaverasgrande]

The next Mac Pro will have to be a pretty significant re-engineer. Not a spec bump.
It won't be the same socket or chipset, and it is starting to look like a new USB connector might be on the horizon as well as a Thunderbolt revision with adequate bandwidth for a 5k display?
We will almost certainly see DDR4 by the time all those other boxes are checked as well.

As far as looking to previous Mac Pro refresh schedules, that was a much different time. You couldnt think about cutting video on an iMac back then, the big white imac would overheat the video card if you looked at it sideways! The Mac pro was more central to the lineup then, now I'd say the rMBP or rIMAC are the more central machines.

 

[Korican100]

The next Mac Pro will have to be a pretty significant re-engineer. Not a spec bump.
It won't be the same socket or chipset, and it is starting to look like a new USB connector might be on the horizon as well as a Thunderbolt revision with adequate bandwidth for a 5k display?
We will almost certainly see DDR4 by the time all those other boxes are checked as well.

As far as looking to previous Mac Pro refresh schedules, that was a much different time. You couldnt think about cutting video on an iMac back then, the big white imac would overheat the video card if you looked at it sideways! The Mac pro was more central to the lineup then, now I'd say the rMBP or rIMAC are the more central machines.

Do you see the mac pro spec bump happening anytime soon?

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Do you see the mac pro spec bump happening anytime soon?

I don't see how they can do a spec bump. The only CPUs currently better are the new Haswell-E ones that support DDR4 and use the new socket.

So it wouldn't so much as a spec bump as a new model. I would see them move to that, as the new Thunderbolt version isn't due until Intel's Skylake architecture is due.

 

[nox-uk]

I'm kinda in the same boat. I recently sold my near enough maxed out 5,1. I just didn't need the power anymore as my work was finished. Since selling it, I've been left with a hole which I don't know how to fill, or even if it can be.

I've thought about getting a macbook, no - battery cannot be replaced and ram can't be upgraded. Imac - nice but Mac Pro territory money. Mac mini, the original reason I moved to macs - very tempting until I saw the new version had soldered memory...

So I've settle with getting a Mac pro, but the 6,1. It's not ordered yet, a little scared to if I'm honest, as I'm not 100% sure yet, and I'm fearing an upgrade to xeon v3 fairly soon. Around a day after I click 'buy'

So the Mac pro 7,1... I realised earlier that this is not the replacement I'm really waiting for anyway, it will be the 8,1 (probably) or whichever has thunderbolt 3. As this isn't out in desktop until 2016 now, and the xeon counterparts are after, it's too long to wait. What does v3 get me over v2? Ddr4... Which will most likely be slower and more expensive for a short while compared to ddr3. And not a lot else, extra instruction set I won't worry about, and a bit faster and potentially more cores.

Upshot is, there are now some cracking deals on the 6,1. I am pretty sure I'm going for the base model of one of these now. Even knowing they will probably be replaced soon. Just slightly apprehensive about the d300's driving 4k...

Nox

 

[sigmadog]

what are the first gen blues?

First generation designs often encounter unforeseen problems that get fixed on the second generation. Admittedly, there don't seem to be many of these with the nMP, but it's common for some of us to wait for Apple to iron-out any problems on the second generation.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

I'm kinda in the same boat. I recently sold my near enough maxed out 5,1. I just didn't need the power anymore as my work was finished. Since selling it, I've been left with a hole which I don't know how to fill, or even if it can be.

I've thought about getting a macbook, no - battery cannot be replaced and ram can't be upgraded. Imac - nice but Mac Pro territory money. Mac mini, the original reason I moved to macs - very tempting until I saw the new version had soldered memory...

So I've settle with getting a Mac pro, but the 6,1. It's not ordered yet, a little scared to if I'm honest, as I'm not 100% sure yet, and I'm fearing an upgrade to xeon v3 fairly soon. Around a day after I click 'buy'

So the Mac pro 7,1... I realised earlier that this is not the replacement I'm really waiting for anyway, it will be the 8,1 (probably) or whichever has thunderbolt 3. As this isn't out in desktop until 2016 now, and the xeon counterparts are after, it's too long to wait. What does v3 get me over v2? Ddr4... Which will most likely be slower and more expensive for a short while compared to ddr3. And not a lot else, extra instruction set I won't worry about, and a bit faster and potentially more cores.

Upshot is, there are now some cracking deals on the 6,1. I am pretty sure I'm going for the base model of one of these now. Even knowing they will probably be replaced soon. Just slightly apprehensive about the d300's driving 4k...

Nox

If you are comfortable upgrading a Mac Pro then built a Hackintosh.

I would not buy the new Mac Pro because it's limited in terms of upgrades. The CPU socket (LGA2011v2) has already been superseded by LGA2011v3. The ram is locked at DDR3 speeds (because of the CPU). The graphic card on the low-end model is "okay" but there are better off the shelf options right now. Also those graphic cards aren't going to be upgradable unless Apple offers a kit so forget 5k video in the future. Basically its a lot of money for hardware that is already borderline obsolete.

I don't see how they can do a spec bump. The only CPUs currently better are the new Haswell-E ones that support DDR4 and use the new socket.

So it wouldn't so much as a spec bump as a new model. I would see them move to that, as the new Thunderbolt version isn't due until Intel's Skylake architecture is due.

Physically the socket is the same with 2011 pins. They just changed a few pin functions between LGA 2011v2 and LGA 2011v3; So I'm sure Apple could easily redesign the Mac Pro to feature LGA2011v3. The question is will they?

 

[calaverasgrande]

they are not 'borderline obsolete' simply because they are not the fastest spec currently available.
Workstations and servers are normally quite a bit back from the leading edge. Stability and longer duty cycle are more important than blazing speed.
These are not intended as gaming machines, but rather video post and other content creation.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

they are not 'borderline obsolete' simply because they are not the fastest spec currently available.
Workstations and servers are normally quite a bit back from the leading edge. Stability and longer duty cycle are more important than blazing speed.
These are not intended as gaming machines, but rather video post and other content creation.

The CPU socket is obsolete by LGA2011v3 and with it out it's highly unlikely a new CPU will ever come out for the current cMP.

The base model graphic card only has 2GB of VRAM, the mid-tier version is has 3 GB; both of which are under the current market of 4GB standard. The D700 has 6GB of ram but you'll still won't ever get 5k display support. Oh and btw people are already asking for 8GB of VRAM for 4k video.

Speaking of which right now we are on the edge of the 4k/5k revolution and especially with Apple releasing the 5k iMac it's only a few ,2-maybe 3, years until 4k-5k is mainstream for high end rigs.

Bottom line is the current mac pro is very expensive for the performance and it'll show its age very fast.

 

[koyoot]

The CPU socket is obsolete by LGA2011v3 and with it out it's highly unlikely a new CPU will ever come out for the current cMP.

The base model graphic card only has 2GB of VRAM, the mid-tier version is has 3 GB; both of which are under the current market of 4GB standard. The D700 has 6GB of ram but you'll still won't ever get 5k display support. Oh and btw people are already asking for 8GB of VRAM for 4k video.

Speaking of which right now we are on the edge of the 4k/5k revolution and especially with Apple releasing the 5k iMac it's only a few ,2-maybe 3, years until 4k-5k is mainstream for high end rigs.

Bottom line is the current mac pro is very expensive for the performance and it'll show its age very fast.

If Apple will go for 8GB HBM Stack on new AMD FirePro GPUs based on Fiji/Pirate Islands GPUs, that will mean 1 TB/s Memory Bandwith.

From my point of view, if Apple Will go for HBM on every GPU(D310, D510, D710) they will stick with current amount of VRAM.

So base model(2GB) will get 256GB/s bandwith, D510(3GB) will get 384GB/s Bandwith, and D710(6GB) will get 768GB/s of bandwith. Apple must have a room for upgrades in the future .

I believe that we will see another presentation from Apple in the early 2015 when they again will show AppleWatch and announce the time of sales starting, they will show 12 inch iPad Pro/Macbook Air, whatever that is, and they will update the Mac Pro.

Haswell-EP with Six Core 3.5 GHz on base model with 16 GB of DDR4 2133 MHz RAM, 256 GB SSD, AMD FirePro D310 with 2GB stack of HBM Memory. 2999$

Higher End model with 8 Core 3.0 GHz, D510 3 GB HBM, 16 GB of RAM DDR4, 256 GB SSD. 3999$

With options of configuring it up to 14 or 18 cores.

 

[nox-uk]

If you are comfortable upgrading a Mac Pro then built a Hackintosh.

I did that, then realised it was way more expensive than buying a mac in the first place. I had the constant paranoia of apple updates breaking it, i'm not sure if continuity is working on Hacks yet & I know thunderbolt doesn't work properly...

You will now go away and quote prices of building a hack and tell me it's cheaper and upgradable too. Initially correct, but just like anyone else capable of building a hack, I'm a tinkerer. I'll buy another GPU, or two. More memory, change the CPU, install a water cooling system, and then decide on a whim I don't like the case anymore. Factor all this into the hack cost too, and then look at the resale values of macs to PC's... I moved to laptops for this very reason, it's way cheaper for me.

I just wish that D300 had 3GB and not 2GB...

Nox

 

[ToroidalZeus]

I did that, then realised it was way more expensive than buying a mac in the first place. I had the constant paranoia of apple updates breaking it, i'm not sure if continuity is working on Hacks yet & I know thunderbolt doesn't work properly...

You will now go away and quote prices of building a hack and tell me it's cheaper and upgradable too. Initially correct, but just like anyone else capable of building a hack, I'm a tinkerer. I'll buy another GPU, or two. More memory, change the CPU, install a water cooling system, and then decide on a whim I don't like the case anymore. Factor all this into the hack cost too, and then look at the resale values of macs to PC's... I moved to laptops for this very reason, it's way cheaper for me.

I just wish that D300 had 3GB and not 2GB...

Nox

Have you done the math? It's crazy the cost difference that is.

At 4.6 Ghz on a 6 Core 5802k i was able to hit 25,000 on the geekbench multicore score. (I've since turned it down slightly to 4.5 Ghz)

That is higher then the geek bench for the 8 core nMP and only the 12 core cMP and nMP score as high or higher.

The 8 core (which I am stronger then) starts at 5k and the 12 core at 6.5k I paid 2k with 1 single gtx 980, with 2 i would be at 2500. Even with higher end graphic cards I'd still be around 1/2 to 2/3rds the cost of a comparable Mac Pro.

You are right the resale value won't be as good BUT with the amount you are savings who cares. Plus if you like tinkering you will find it fun to install OS X on a nonsupport system.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I am certain an updated nMP will be announced very soon, as I just purchased mine from Best Buy a few days ago. Those of you who have not bought yet, are all very welcome

 

[sigmadog]

I am certain an updated nMP will be announced very soon, as I just purchased mine from Best Buy a few days ago. Those of you who have not bought yet, are all very welcome

While you are at it, could you please wash your car? We need a little rain over here.

 

[Korican100]

I am certain an updated nMP will be announced very soon, as I just purchased mine from Best Buy a few days ago. Those of you who have not bought yet, are all very welcome

how can you be so certain? I guess I don't understand the correlation of you buying a nMP from Bestbuy and an updated nMP coming out. Please explain!

 

[koyoot]

Like i've said before on this topic, i believe that early next year is the target.

Haswell-EP CPUs are already here. DDR4 is already here for purchase. Only thing that we would need to get MP updated are new GPUs. Current gen GPUs are 3 years old now.

From what we know Global Foundries will be producing 20 nm FD-SOI GPUs for AMD. Those GPUs will use HBM Memory. All this will make them extremely power efficient and powerful with gigantic, for current standards, memory bandwith.

They will be available in February. So if Apple would want to pin together early 2015 event, when they can announce the start of sales of AppleWatch, iPad Pro/Macbook Air and new Mac Pro, the late February/early march is the target for it IMO.

 

[handsome pete]

how can you be so certain? I guess I don't understand the correlation of you buying a nMP from Bestbuy and an updated nMP coming out. Please explain!

It was said in jest. He's implying that since he finally shelled out a bunch of cash on a new Mac Pro, then with his luck a revision will be announced shortly.

Have you done the math? It's crazy the cost difference that is.

At 4.6 Ghz on a 6 Core 5802k i was able to hit 25,000 on the geekbench multicore score. (I've since turned it down slightly to 4.5 Ghz)

You can't compare Xeons to desktop chips. Of course you're going to be able to build cheaper using desktop parts. But the hackintosh argument everyone trots out here is silly. Yes, they're cheaper. And you can get better performance. But when talking about workstations, most are looking for a reliable no maintenance machine for day to day work. If the machine goes down, they don't want to self diagnose, make warranty claims on individual parts, etc. They want to call Apple, HP, Dell, etc. and get up and running again without much hassle. Hackintosh and PC builds are fun and good value, but are usually not an option for someone looking at workstations.

 

[sigmadog]

how can you be so certain? I guess I don't understand the correlation of you buying a nMP from Bestbuy and an updated nMP coming out. Please explain!

I believe BeatCrazy was making a joke. We're all a bunch of kidders, here.

 

[Umbongo]

It was said in jest. He's implying that since he finally shelled out a bunch of cash on a new Mac Pro, then with his luck a revision will be announced shortly.

You can't compare Xeons to desktop chips. Of course you're going to be able to build cheaper using desktop parts. But the hackintosh argument everyone trots out here is silly. Yes, they're cheaper. And you can get better performance. But when talking about workstations, most are looking for a reliable no maintenance machine for day to day work. If the machine goes down, they don't want to self diagnose, make warranty claims on individual parts, etc. They want to call Apple, HP, Dell, etc. and get up and running again without much hassle. Hackintosh and PC builds are fun and good value, but are usually not an option for someone looking at workstations.

Depends how much knowledge you have. I have a Hackintosh as my primary system now. Since setting it up I have had no OS issues at all. It's so simple with a Gigabyte board. I'm someone who ran Power Macs/Macs Pros from 2005-2009 and dual CPU PC workstations from then until recently as my primary systems. The reliability isn't an issue and they are incredibly stable. Turn around time on my hackintosh if it has a major issue is 24-48 hours depending what time it goes down, i.e can I Amazon prime new parts over/able to go to a store. If I had a Mac Pro I'd be looking at 4+ days from my local reseller (who are great, but that's too slow for a primary system). I'm not relying on it to crunch massive data, but for my general use/development/creative it far out weighs any benefits a Mac Pro would give.

You can of course get a Xeon setup, including dual Xeons if you want for OS X too.

Not going to suggest it is for everyone. I certainly wouldn't push the idea on clients looking to deploy multiple systems and the I don't want to manage hackintoshes in the slightest for others (I manage/help with many Macs for clients). When it comes to my personal systems though I'm happy to do it with the state of things in 2014. Granted I've dabbled with Hacks for years and ran OS X in VMs for a time, plus I've been developing for and on OS X for 10 years, but it really is quite simple for anyone with some interest and the right logical approach to solving issues. Not like Mac Pros have been without their issues either.

 

[handsome pete]

Depends how much knowledge you have. I have a Hackintosh as my primary system now. Since setting it up I have had no OS issues at all. It's so simple with a Gigabyte board. I'm someone who ran Power Macs/Macs Pros from 2005-2009 and dual CPU PC workstations from then until recently as my primary systems. The reliability isn't an issue and they are incredibly stable. Turn around time on my hackintosh if it has a major issue is 24-48 hours depending what time it goes down, i.e can I Amazon prime new parts over/able to go to a store. If I had a Mac Pro I'd be looking at 4+ days from my local reseller (who are great, but that's too slow for a primary system). I'm not relying on it to crunch massive data, but for my general use/development/creative it far out weighs any benefits a Mac Pro would give.

You can of course get a Xeon setup, including dual Xeons if you want for OS X too.

Not going to suggest it is for everyone. I certainly wouldn't push the idea on clients looking to deploy multiple systems and the I don't want to manage hackintoshes in the slightest for others (I manage/help with many Macs for clients). When it comes to my personal systems though I'm happy to do it with the state of things in 2014. Granted I've dabbled with Hacks for years and ran OS X in VMs for a time, plus I've been developing for and on OS X for 10 years, but it really is quite simple for anyone with some interest and the right logical approach to solving issues. Not like Mac Pros have been without their issues either.

I completely agree with all of that. I think the "just build a hackintosh" response often doesn't take details from the original request into consideration and only serves as validity for others' choices.

 

[RhymeAnimal]

I thought I could wait for another year, but I'm starting to visit the Apple online store more, and lusting. Frankly, it's cutting into my porn time.

(kidding)

Just got a nMP and it is AMAZING how fast YouPorn runs on it.... Had it for about a month now and haven't tried any other applications besides Safari but man this thing SCREAMS.

 

[goMac]

I don't see how they can do a spec bump. The only CPUs currently better are the new Haswell-E ones that support DDR4 and use the new socket.

So it wouldn't so much as a spec bump as a new model. I would see them move to that, as the new Thunderbolt version isn't due until Intel's Skylake architecture is due.

The Haswell-EP has a nice boost in core counts. It's a pretty significant upgrade.

There are also significant GPU upgrades waiting.

I'm not sure if they'd wait until the new Thunderbolt version. If they can't announce anything in the first half of next year, I could see them still rev'ing the Mac Pro. If Thunderbolt 3.0 is connected to Skylake, remember, Skylake-EP may not show up until 2016 or 2017. We haven't even seen Broadwell-EP yet.

Is Apple going to wait until 2016 to upgrade the Mac Pro simply because of Thunderbolt? Doubt it.

Edit: Wikipedia says that Skylake-E (not even EP) won't show until 2016. So that means if Apple is waiting on Skylake, the Mac Pro wouldn't be rev'd until at least a year and a half from now. Seriously doubting that.

 

[koyoot]

The Haswell-EP has a nice boost in core counts. It's a pretty significant upgrade.

There are also significant GPU upgrades waiting.

I'm not sure if they'd wait until the new Thunderbolt version. If they can't announce anything in the first half of next year, I could see them still rev'ing the Mac Pro. If Thunderbolt 3.0 is connected to Skylake, remember, Skylake-EP may not show up until 2016 or 2017. We haven't even seen Broadwell-EP yet.

Is Apple going to wait until 2016 to upgrade the Mac Pro simply because of Thunderbolt? Doubt it.

Edit: Wikipedia says that Skylake-E (not even EP) won't show until 2016. So that means if Apple is waiting on Skylake, the Mac Pro wouldn't be rev'd until at least a year and a half from now. Seriously doubting that.

Broadwell-E will be released early 2016. Broadwell-EP(Xeon's) should be released one quarter later.

Skylake-E(desktop version of Skylake based Xeons) won't show till late 2016-early 2017.

And Skylake-E/EP will have Thunderbolt 3.

 

[calaverasgrande]

again, the Mac Pro is not intended as the type of desktop that enthusiasts buy to have the latest hardware. It never has been. And historically, Apple has only done once a year updates of products like iphones and ipads. The computers seem to get 18 month or much longer intervals.
If you need a computer like this now, buy it. If you just need a fast mac in general, the retina iMac is a pretty decent contender, and the 15" rMBP is no slouch, both for less coin.