Wanting to get a nMP soon. when is the 7,1 coming out?

[AppleDroid]

I'd be very much interested in those results (along with the configs). My testing was limited to one 30 minute video transcode so take it with a grain of salt.

I'm really interested to get some non-forum reports of the retina iMac heat/throttling and if it's truly an issue. Not that I don't appreciate forum posts and reports but there's always that 50% chance of trolling that keeps me from fully trusting them.

If Anandtech comes out with a full review, no heat issues over sustained use it makes anything but the 6+ core nMP pointless. Some of the reviews/benchmarks show the BTO r iMac to only be 20-30% slower at multithreaded tasks against the stock 6c.

Of course if Apple releases the 7,1 tomorrow with the base model at 6c + updated GPUs starting at $3k it makes the decision easy but it doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon and I really can't wait much longer to replace my machine. Old Betsy is fading.

 

[fastlanephil]

i think after next week the chance of a revision this year becomes pretty slim.

 

[VirtualRain]

I'm really interested to get some non-forum reports of the retina iMac heat/throttling and if it's truly an issue. Not that I don't appreciate forum posts and reports but there's always that 50% chance of trolling that keeps me from fully trusting them.

If Anandtech comes out with a full review, no heat issues over sustained use it makes anything but the 6+ core nMP pointless. Some of the reviews/benchmarks show the BTO r iMac to only be 20-30% slower at multithreaded tasks against the stock 6c.

Of course if Apple releases the 7,1 tomorrow with the base model at 6c + updated GPUs starting at $3k it makes the decision easy but it doesn't look like that is going to happen anytime soon and I really can't wait much longer to replace my machine. Old Betsy is fading.

I agree with your assessment of the iMac... it is tremendous value, especially compared to the 4-core Mac Pro. In fact, the iMac is half the price of the comparable entry-level nMP + Dell 5K display (assuming those two will even work together).

Based on the fact that the 1600 v3 CPU pricing hasn't changed, it's very unlikely that Apple will offer a 6-core at last year's 4-core price point. They have been known to cut prices on Macs in the past, but in my opinion, this particular (non-consumer/pro-oriented) product is fairly price inelastic... in other words, changes in price have little effect on demand.

As for timing, I agree I would expect something in Q1 next year or nothing at all.

 

[Gav Mack]

I agree with your assessment of the iMac... it is tremendous value, especially compared to the 4-core Mac Pro. In fact, the iMac is half the price of the comparable entry-level nMP + Dell 5K display (assuming those two will even work together).

Based on the fact that the 1600 v3 CPU pricing hasn't changed, it's very unlikely that Apple will offer a 6-core at last year's 4-core price point. They have been known to cut prices on Macs in the past, but in my opinion, this particular (non-consumer/pro-oriented) product is fairly price inelastic... in other words, changes in price have little effect on demand.

As for timing, I agree I would expect something in Q1 next year or nothing at all.

From an engineers standpoint knowing what the 2012 27 inch chassis and cooling system is like - if you want one (especially with the option gpu) get AppleCare with it and sell it before the 3 years are up. That faster AMD is a 125w part and could end up like a MacBook pro 2011 gpu in a few years.

 

[Nosferax]

From an engineers standpoint knowing what the 2012 27 inch chassis and cooling system is like - if you want one (especially with the option gpu) get AppleCare with it and sell it before the 3 years are up. That faster AMD is a 125w part and could end up like a MacBook pro 2011 gpu in a few years.

Depending where you live, you still can get support passed that 3 years applecare period. Here, you get coverage via the "legal waranty". If the GPU or computer break because of a manufacture deficiency under what is considered an acceptable lifespan then the manufacturer has to either repair or replace it or issue a refund.

 

[Gav Mack]

Depending where you live, you still can get support passed that 3 years applecare period. Here, you get coverage via the "legal waranty". If the GPU or computer break because of a manufacture deficiency under what is considered an acceptable lifespan then the manufacturer has to either repair or replace it or issue a refund.

I know - we in the UK are the most fortunate of all with 6 years!

I would still sell it - because the 2015/6 Skylake Intel platform will have DisplayPort 1,3 and Thunderbolt 3 and will be much more versatile iMac. Target Display will be back for starters most likely..

 

[goMac]

The GPU seriously concerns me in that iMac. Not because it's too powerful for the case, but because I don't think it's powerful enough.

 

[Nosferax]

The GPU seriously concerns me in that iMac. Not because it's too powerful for the case, but because I don't think it's powerful enough.

That seems to be the case.

I personally think that Apple as overreached on this one. They didn't really needed to bring a 5k display enabled Mac right now. No competitor does. None offer even a 4k AIO either and that would have made more sense for me.

It's great that Apple is in the lead tech wise, but there's a danger in going to far in advance. Sometime you have to let the rest of your troop catch up before trying to overtake the next enemy position.

 

[Nosferax]

I know - we in the UK are the most fortunate of all with 6 years!

I would still sell it - because the 2015/6 Skylake Intel platform will have DisplayPort 1,3 and Thunderbolt 3 and will be much more versatile iMac. Target Display will be back for starters most likely..

We don't have a set periode of time here. If you argue your point well to the judge and can demonstrate that similar priced and quality item have a longer life and yours should have last at least as long as them then the manufacturer has to do something about it.

For exemple, if you buy a fridge with a 3 year waranty and it breaks during the 5th year, if it is known that fridge of similar quality and price last at least 10 years then they have to either fix it or replace it.

Of course, most people don't invoke the legal waranty for a cheap chinese $25 dvd player. It isn't worth your time to argue your case. But for a $3k+ computer, hell yeah I would.

 

[Gav Mack]

We don't have a set periode of time here. If you argue your point well to the judge and can demonstrate that similar priced and quality item have a longer life and yours should have last at least as long as them then the manufacturer has to do something about it.

For exemple, if you buy a fridge with a 3 year waranty and it breaks during the 5th year, if it is known that fridge of similar quality and price last at least 10 years then they have to either fix it or replace it.

Of course, most people don't invoke the legal waranty for a cheap chinese $25 dvd player. It isn't worth your time to argue your case. But for a $3k+ computer, hell yeah I would.

I look at it from an engineers perspective mostly; and unlike many on here I have had the 2012 models apart with my own hands (and heat gun!).

As an independent I deal with a lot post AppleCare and as with all the iMac range I have to clean these units out and repaste the two chips and they are almost always a mess inside, rarely are they running cool even if they are clear of blockages. Apple may think in their simulations they are ok but that paste is very different in reality so I paste and polish my way and not Apples. I have early Intel Macintosh out there that have had 6+ years since I did the work and with the dust blown out still remain cool as ever.

Plus bearing in mind the last time Apple put a pair of really hot silicon dies inside a Mac was the MBP 2011 and I've had more than my fair share of them to deal with, with over a dozen reballed, two baked in my oven(!) and well over that repasted to stop them failing.

And this 125w option GPU is certainly pushing its thermal envelope just like the 2011's did hence why I suspect two years down the line we will be seeing higher failure rates than normal. And if a client says they have 6 months left on their warranty what other advice should I give?

The 5k is a great piece of kit - a but a true professional Macintosh it certainly isn't - designed to run at full load non stop on all processors until your hard work is done. Only new Mac that fits the bill is the 6,1 and its predecessors.

 

[kennyman]

Zwhaler;20330405]Cheaper and affordable are not friendly vocabulary to the pro market. Yes, I can see that it is "better" for average users and prosumers. But for real professionals that want Apple's best and very expensive machine to have CPU power to match, it should have had dual CPU. Can you imagine having over 60,000 Geekbench? That is completely insane, and exactly what the highest end users want. Now all but one (12 core) nMP today trails behind my 2010 gen in CPU power. Yeah the only thing they really did right in my opinion was the GPUs. That being said, if the next gen only tops out at 14 core, I'll still be disappointed. I would want 16 core or higher, but again, ideally in dual processor configuration.

@ Zwhaler
Hello - Apple is not in the market to make machine for "real professionals"!! They have killed Xserve a long time ago..and they do not care about it. Geekbench is for geeks only

I have said previously that the nMP is not worth it for now. But it is looking good for the future, in terms of Apple design (single CPU socket + dual GPUS). And next generation only tops out at 14-core?? what are you ...Please, take a look at the latest Xeon X5 2699 v3 (18-core CPU). You need to understand that a dual socket machine will cost more than a single one, because intel also need a small payment for the socket/chipset. Put it this way, a dual socket machine with high end CPU will cost an arm and a leg, and will again put Apple in a position where they will not be able to sell MacPro to the masses (the are making computers for pro-consumers, look at their range of products)

Dual CPUs MacPro is gone, it will not come back any sooner. cMP will fade away too, give it 1 year max. Even the nMP has lost its value, depreciate too quick (no LGA 2011-3 socket, no DDR4, no new GPUs). i hope that the upcoming MP 20XX will have the same GPU connectors as 2013 ones, so that I can swap GPUs only not the whole machine. btw, I use both nMP (dual 700, CPU 2697 v2 as my work machine) and cMP (single 280X + 2 x 5690`s as my home machine )

 

[goMac]

Dual CPUs MacPro is gone, it will not come back any sooner. cMP will fade away too, give it 1 year max. Even the nMP has lost its value, depreciate too quick (no LGA 2011-3 socket, no DDR4, no new GPUs). i hope that the upcoming MP 20XX will have the same GPU connectors as 2013 ones, so that I can swap GPUs only not the whole machine. btw, I use both nMP (dual 700, CPU 2697 v2 as my work machine) and cMP (single 280X + 2 x 5690`s as my home machine )

I suspect that some cMP will hold on to their Mac Pros as long as they can as they represent their vision of Apple at it's height (see the PowerPC forum for an example). But as technology moves forward those machines will be harder and harder to sustain. Next year the newest cMPs will basically reach their 5th birthday (the 2012s were still based on 2010 era chipsets.) I think it's likely in the next few years the base nMP will eclipse what the cMP is capable of.

Hasn't stopped the folks in the PPC forum though.

 

[Zwhaler]

@ Kennyman

You make some great points... yeah I was referring to the workstation class professional and people who rely on rendering based workflows, which Apple gave a modest upgrade to last year in the CPU department. GPU wise it is much better but as of today the thing is already outdated lol. How do you like your cMP? Looks like you have a very very nice setup with those 2 machines. I know Intel doesn't top out at 14 core, I am just wondering what Apple is going to put into its next nMP. 18 core would be cool, that's 36 threads and if I wasn't already very satisfied with this one especially for Firewire 800 based audio recording workflows (4K in final cut leaves some to be desired but I'm not going to complain... it works great for 1080p.) then I might want to get one. I just wish I had more PCIe slots... I could get some PCIe SSD cards, a second 280X... but currently I'm using 2x UAD Octos, 280X, USB3, and thats it. SATA speed 840 EVOs which is still pretty good.

 

[Korican100]

cmon you can't say dual d700's are outdated. Just because it is only 6gb of vram each doesn't mean its a blowover. Like someone else said earlier in this thread, Mac Pro's weren't about leading edge (bleeding edge), they were always about being a stable workhorse with a focus on duration of work cycles.

 

[koyoot]

No, they are not outdated. Simply because there is nothing new in AMD's lineup of GPU's that can be used, apart from Chip from R9 290X.

New cards will be launched in February, and, everything points out to, they will be BEASTS!.

R9 380X, which is probably new D710 FirePro GPU, will have 4 GB stack of HBM memory with 640 GB/s bandwith and... 4096 Stream processors.

Double of what we have in D700 right now.

I just can't wait to see what Apple will pack in new MP about those GPUs...

 

[fastlanephil]

For those of us who are using a Mac Pro as a DAW computer, leaving the D300 as a option (if that's feasable) for some cost savings would be good.

 

[Nosferax]

For those of us who are using a Mac Pro as a DAW computer, leaving the D300 as a option (if that's feasable) for some cost savings would be good.

You'll probably get a similarly spec D3x0 in the next iteration of the nMP.

 

[beaker7]

I doubt you'll see a revised Mac Pro until it Skylake in fall of 2016, along with TB3.

 

[Nosferax]

I doubt you'll see a revised Mac Pro until it Skylake in fall of 2016, along with TB3.

Yeah, I'm thinking that too... Not much point to update just for the sake of updating and for some marginal benefits.

I believe Apple will release a new nMP when they have updates for all the parts (GPU, CPU, RAM and SSD).

 

[AppleDroid]

I doubt you'll see a revised Mac Pro until it Skylake in fall of 2016, along with TB3.

That would be a nail in the apple professional coffin. They lost pros to other systems with lack of mp updates and the debacle that was the fcpx launch. I would assume a broadwell CPU and GPU bump in 2015 and a drop in Skylake CPU in 2016.

I could be wrong but a three year gap just doesn't seem feasible.

 

[nox-uk]

2010 release to the 2013 was a three year gap. I don't consider faster CPUs a design change. If it is, then I'm an apple designer as I upgraded the CPUs in my Mac pro... It was only a spec bump. Realistically it was 2014 release too, so a bigger gap, longer than AppleCare would cover

I think skylake will be in our Mac pros in around 2017.

Nox

 

[cgc]

I wish Apple would build a gaming MacPro with some decent GPUs optimized for FPS.

 

[pcd109]

No, they are not outdated. Simply because there is nothing new in AMD's lineup of GPU's that can be used, apart from Chip from R9 290X.

New cards will be launched in February, and, everything points out to, they will be BEASTS!.

R9 380X, which is probably new D710 FirePro GPU, will have 4 GB stack of HBM memory with 640 GB/s bandwith and... 4096 Stream processors.

Double of what we have in D700 right now.

I just can't wait to see what Apple will pack in new MP about those GPUs...

You need to update your info on GPU's. I don't know why people don't understand that this are worstation GPU's, not gaming. AMD has already launched new firepro's in August. They are much-much better than the old ones used in nMP(so yes, cards in nMP are OUTDATED). They are as follow:

- w5100 4GB of VRAM(vs old w5000 2GB);
- w7100 8GB of VRAM(vs old w7000 4GB);
- w8100 same(8 vs 4);
- AND w9100 16GB(!!!!!) of VRAM(vs old w9000 6GB)

I am not sure Apple will offer dual 16Gb of VRAM though, in order to force users to upgrade more often.

----------

Yeah, I'm thinking that too... Not much point to update just for the sake of updating and for some marginal benefits.

I believe Apple will release a new nMP when they have updates for all the parts (GPU, CPU, RAM and SSD).

All parts are already available: cpu(new Xeons v3), gpu(new amd firepro's) and ram(ddr4 is here). So i think if Apple does not upgrade as soon as possible, it will be a huge loss for them. The only think that matters in this business is predictability. If they skip again one MAJOR upgrade, the remaining professionals will leave Apple for good. Apple has already a huge loss on this market share because of the 'smart' move with FCPX and Mac Pro. If a new one comes in form of missing upgrade........

 

[Nosferax]

All parts are already available: cpu(new Xeons v3), gpu(new amd firepro's) and ram(ddr4 is here). So i think if Apple does not upgrade as soon as possible, it will be a huge loss for them. The only think that matters in this business is predictability. If they skip again one MAJOR upgrade, the remaining professionals will leave Apple for good. Apple has already a huge loss on this market share because of the 'smart' move with FCPX and Mac Pro. If a new one comes in form of missing upgrade........

Ah but, I also believe that Apple has already stepped out of the real professional business for the most part. They're mostly targetting power users and the DAW business mostly, since they pretty much destroyed their video editing market with FCPX. The graphic editing/3D/VFX market may come back if ever OpenCL catch up to Cuda but in the mean time you get better performance with NVidia than AMD.

The main problem with OpenCL is the same as OpenGL, it's designed by a committee... Cuda development is more agile with only one captain at the helm.

As an occasional graphical/3D artist with an old 21.5" iMac I was looking at the nMP as a possible upgrade (I already have 2 27" 2560x1440 monitors in my office) but I've decided to wait for the next revision. Until then I've pretty much moved my graphical work to my Dell PC equiped with dual 780ti GPU.

 

[Korican100]

Will AMD make new swappable boards for nMP 2013. That is the question.

Anything else is uncivilized.