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Ugh, again semantics.

To the typical non-hardcore music listener, they can put on an Alternative FM station -or- Pandora -or- iTunes Radio and achieve the same effect as Apple Music with their not-so-fancy "Playlists", and "For You", and "New" functions. Hours and hours of music around a Genre, just tap a button, sit back, and let the internet or terrestrial signals mix your day.

We're talking about what 90% of Apple Music subscribers will do here. It's not about taking songs 'offline' and building a library. It's about letting someone else program what you're listening to. iTunes Radio and Apple Music, same thing. Paying $120 for taking songs "offline" or paying $120 to "download" them is the same thing, difference being the All-You-Can Eat Chinese buffet vs. sitting down and ordering a-la-carte off the menu. Same food, different amounts, different pricing, different delivery method. Same food. Moo Chu Pork? Same. Chicken and Broccoli? Same. Fried Pork Dumplings? Same. If you need 50 pounds of Pork Lo Mein, Apple Music is a win. But no one can eat that much. So its a loss.

BJ

Oh come on!

The difference between "free radio" and "free radio and then buying stuff" is more than semantics. Its a fundamental difference between something being free, and something not being free.

You have argued throughout this discussion that AM music does not offer anything that free radio does not already offer. That that only holds true when you buy something pretty much blows that entire argument out of the water.

You must see that?

As for what AM is for people, I guess that will depend on the individual. But I would have thought that for many a big part of it is being able to listen to albums without having to buy them all.
 
With both services you have to hit two buttons to get them onto your device for future listening. I have no idea where you are going with this. One service is a flat rate $10 a month, the other service is pay-as-you go. Both services allow you to hear full versions of songs before committing them to eat up hard drive space.

As above - you have repeatedly argued that AM offers nothing that free radio doesn't already offer.

That "free radio" now means "hearing something on the radio and then buying it" then it obviously isn't free.

Okay then, now I've made it clear I guess.

Yes - it is now abundantly clear that when you say that radio offers everything that AM does for free, that isn't the case at all.

It's common sense that more people listen to music than buy it. Radio is free. New music is all around us every day. Only a percentage of us like a song so much we need to buy it and listen to it over and over again.

BJ

Yes. But what does this have to do with how AM is priced?

Should it be $1 to go to the cinema because people are used to watching stuff for free on the television?
 
Let's put it this way:

At $120 a year Apple Music will be utilized by no more than 3% of the iTunes userbase. If they can figure out a way to lower the price they might be able to double or triple that. Either way, it's a single-digit opportunity, not really something Apple likes to cater to. Jobs stopped development on the fractional iPad because the Phone was the bigger market. Cook is chasing pennies with this one.

BJ

First off, given the rise in streaming, I doubt your numbers are going to hold for very long. Second, you're missing a rather obvious point: Apple Music is not a standalone product. It's designed to get people into Apple's ecosys
There is nothing fundamentally new about Apple Music. There is no 'wow' feature that is gamechanging. It's iterative. It's just a new delivery model. This isn't like the first time someone saw Color TV, the first time someone experienced Cable TV, the first time someone flew on a jet aircraft, the first time someone picked up an iPhone. This is a yawn.

I have a great idea for this thread though. Let's shift gears and discuss what's really bothering most people when you take the finances out of it. We say "its too expensive", you say "its a great value". Let's move past that:

What happens when you want to hear Prince and take his work offline and you find out you can't?

What happens when you are fed a customized Southern Folk Singer-Songwriter Essentials playlist and it has no Neil Young on it?

What happens when Jay-Z launches his new LP on Tidal and forces Apple Music listeners to wait six months to get it?

What happens when Sony Music launches its own streaming service in 2025 and all your Billy Joel songs are pulled from Apple Music and all your personal playlists after being there for a decade?

What happens when the Beatles decide to create their own network in their own app called Beatles Music and charge just for that?

What happens when Apple Music increases their rates to $20 a month?

What happens when you have to curtail your Apple Music experience because its racking up $20+ in data overages?

What happens when all this fragmentation plaguing the streaming market finds its way into the iTunes Music Store and destroys the brilliant one-stop-shop that it is now?

The cost isn't the real issue. It's the renting. It's being held hostage. It's the lack of control.

BJ

I noticed you ignored the rest of my post. Typical. Let's face it, streaming IS trending upwards, and physical sales/downloads are declining. That's the long and the short of it. So many of your assumptions are based on streaming being a blip in the marketplace. I'm telling you--it's not going to be a blip.

As for your other concerns, they are valid. But here's the thing. It's important to remember why streaming even came about. It was to combat piracy. If the services get too fragmented, too expensive, too meager in their offerings, people will go back to pirating. Right now, the reason streaming is a good deal for consumers and the record companies (artists not as much) is that it's so cheap (relative to the amount of money the same amount of music would cost you if you bought album by album or track by track) and so convenient that even pirates who have TB of music on their hard drives are hard pressed not to use it. In terms of recouping lost profits, streaming is the best bet for record companies right now.

Now, you will have some holdouts. Some big name players like Taylor Swift can play hardball. Some legends like Prince and Neil Young can hold their music hostage (and I should point out, Mr. "Free Music Is All Around Us", Prince has fought very hard for years to keep copies of his music off the internet, and even covers of his music, including that bastion of music discovery, YouTube). But ultimately, those are outliers. Taylor Swift is SO huge that people will buy her music--right now. If her sales begin to dip, prepare to see her music on every streaming service from here to Timbuktu. Neil Young and Prince are set, they don't need the meager revenue generated by streaming services. Neil Young is also trying to push hi-res downloads and his Pono player, so he has a vested interest in making streaming less desirable. That is a battle he is going to lose. Prince just hates his music being available outside of record stores for some reason, but he's Prince and he gets what he wants.

The Beatles are the big holdout at this point, again a band so beloved that people will continue to buy their music until the sun explodes. Also an outlier.

Most of the big names are available on streaming services, and it's in their interest to keep it that way. It's in the interest of record companies to keep streaming services broadly available and with the most music possible. The harder they become to use, the less content they have, the more pirating, not purchasing, will rise. The record companies know this. They're afraid of it. Afraid to death of it.

That being said, I agree with you about control. Of course the record companies want more control. All the media conglomerates want more control now that their man source of revenue--content--has been turned into digital bits that can be copied perfectly by anyone with a standard laptop. That's why we've seen the proliferation of DRM, and Netflix, and music streaming. But that doesn't mean that Netflix isn't a good value, or that streaming music isn't a good value. It's not a good value for long term storage of all the music you want to own, and I would never recommend someone use streaming exclusively without ever purchasing any music. But like with Netflix, you can use music streaming to listen to anything that catches your fancy, and then buy the few albums you really love or aren't available on the service. Netflix has tons of movies I'd like to watch, but I only need to own a subset of them because I love them so much that I know the ability to watch them whenever I want, wherever I want, and have a physical copy of it in case the license expires on Netflix or my internet goes out or whatever.

Same with music. I don't need to own every ABBA album, their greatest hits is fine (The Visitors is also worth owning, actually). But maybe I want to listen to more than what I can find on the greatest hits. Good luck getting that on the radio. But you know what I can do? Subscribe to AM or Spotify or Deezer or Rdio for $9.99 a month, listen to every ABBA album ever made, get my fill, maybe also listen to some Kanye, some Paul McCartney, some War on Drugs, Tame Impala, David Bowie, and Deerhoof. And maybe I'll hear something I didn't know before, and think it might be worth buying. Or maybe, after three listens in a month, I'm done and don't need to buy it. But you can't say I didn't get my money's worth if a single one of those albums cost $9.99 or more on iTunes.
 
There is nothing fundamentally new about Apple Music. There is no 'wow' feature that is gamechanging. It's iterative. It's just a new delivery model. This isn't like the first time someone saw Color TV, the first time someone experienced Cable TV, the first time someone flew on a jet aircraft, the first time someone picked up an iPhone. This is a yawn.

I have a great idea for this thread though. Let's shift gears and discuss what's really bothering most people when you take the finances out of it. We say "its too expensive", you say "its a great value". Let's move past that:

What happens when you want to hear Prince and take his work offline and you find out you can't?

What happens when you are fed a customized Southern Folk Singer-Songwriter Essentials playlist and it has no Neil Young on it?

What happens when Jay-Z launches his new LP on Tidal and forces Apple Music listeners to wait six months to get it?

What happens when Sony Music launches its own streaming service in 2025 and all your Billy Joel songs are pulled from Apple Music and all your personal playlists after being there for a decade?

What happens when the Beatles decide to create their own network in their own app called Beatles Music and charge just for that?

What happens when Apple Music increases their rates to $20 a month?

What happens when you have to curtail your Apple Music experience because its racking up $20+ in data overages?

What happens when all this fragmentation plaguing the streaming market finds its way into the iTunes Music Store and destroys the brilliant one-stop-shop that it is now?

The cost isn't the real issue. It's the renting. It's being held hostage. It's the lack of control.

BJ

These are the discussion points that I always sensed behind many of your posts. Whether AM is a good value to 1%, 3%, or even 20% of iTunes users, this discussion certainly highlights the numerous factors one should consider when deciding whether AM makes sense for them rather than simply hearing $9.99 for unlimited streaming and offline access. The answer to those asking you "what's the big deal, if it's not for you, what do you care?" is that if enough people for whom AM does not make sense are suckered in* by the seemingly reasonable rate, the current model that works so well for many of us (i.e., some combination if iTunes purchases and the free versions of iTune Radio, Pandora, Spotify, etc.) won't last and we'll all be stuck with either giving in to AM or scrambling to find alternatives.

The cable comparison is actually a very good one. The difference is that cable was bundled from day one and it is only recently that one could cut the cord and still have a reasonably good chance of accessing their favorite shows. In the context of music, streaming seems to be taking things in the wrong direction. If it stays at a point where most music is available within all of the services, it's probably not such a big deal. However if, as you wonder, each label starts their own streaming services, music will indeed turn into what cable has always been and we'll long for the days of the Pandora/Spotify/iTunes Radio and iTunes purchasing hybrid.

One point that keeps being made is that without AM, you can't listen to specific songs/albums on demand. That might be true of iTunes Radio, but with my free Spotify account, I can listen to anything in their catalog on demand. My understanding is that a premium account would give me a higher bit rate and the ability to save any tracks for offline play, but I have never had any trouble pulling up a song when I felt like listening to it. Does Spotify work differently in the UK?




* I use the phrase "suckered in" not as a slight against many of the posters in this thread and those with similar music listening habits for whom AM might very well make sense, but for the majority of the purchasing public who are not going to think through the true costs to join that have been discussed ad nauseum in this thread.
 
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Nielsen Music's end of year data for music consumption in 2014 showed a 54% increase in streaming services with a 60.5% increase for audio services.

While digital sales fell 12.5% and physical sales fell 14.9% in 2014.

What you say to that boltjames....

@boltjames you've conveniently ignored the facts this person posted.....

There is nothing fundamentally new about Apple Music. There is no 'wow' feature that is gamechanging. It's iterative. It's just a new delivery model. This isn't like the first time someone saw Color TV, the first time someone experienced Cable TV, the first time someone flew on a jet aircraft, the first time someone picked up an iPhone. This is a yawn.

I have a great idea for this thread though. Let's shift gears and discuss what's really bothering most people when you take the finances out of it. We say "its too expensive", you say "its a great value". Let's move past that:

What happens when you want to hear Prince and take his work offline and you find out you can't?

What happens when you are fed a customized Southern Folk Singer-Songwriter Essentials playlist and it has no Neil Young on it?

What happens when Jay-Z launches his new LP on Tidal and forces Apple Music listeners to wait six months to get it?

What happens when Sony Music launches its own streaming service in 2025 and all your Billy Joel songs are pulled from Apple Music and all your personal playlists after being there for a decade?

What happens when the Beatles decide to create their own network in their own app called Beatles Music and charge just for that?

What happens when Apple Music increases their rates to $20 a month?

What happens when you have to curtail your Apple Music experience because its racking up $20+ in data overages?

What happens when all this fragmentation plaguing the streaming market finds its way into the iTunes Music Store and destroys the brilliant one-stop-shop that it is now?

The cost isn't the real issue. It's the renting. It's being held hostage. It's the lack of control.

BJ

What happens when your house burns down and you lose all your music.

What happens when labels pull music from iTunes that you purchased, so you cannot redownload it.

Alot of your 'what if's' are absurd. If Jay-Z launched his new LP on Tidal, he might restrict it from being purchased anywhere else, which renders that point irrelevant.

You bang on about data overages, that's what offline is for, people can be sensible about their usage if they have caps, you're acting like they're all irresponsible children where daddy doesn't educate and cap their data use for them.... (Which sounds like you're one of, from what you've posted about your irresponsible children). Also, there are unlimited data plans, outside the US we're not as screwed over as you are for unlimited data plans and this is a GLOBAL service (In 100 countries and that will increase).

Additionally, if someone really wants some music that's on other services, if it's purchasable, and someone wants to really have that music, they can buy it and add it to Apple Music.

If someone wants the Beatles, according to your posts,they already have it, as everyone alraedy has their back catalogue, which will be imported to Apple Music.... Same with Prince and Billy Joel. Or are you going to contradict yourself again?

If fragmentation is going to hit streaming, it will hit purchasing too, which messes up your argument too.
 
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I noticed you ignored the rest of my post. Typical. Let's face it, streaming IS trending upwards, and physical sales/downloads are declining. That's the long and the short of it. So many of your assumptions are based on streaming being a blip in the marketplace. I'm telling you--it's not going to be a blip.

Exactly, Spotify has been going 9 years, that's a long blip........
 
As for your other concerns, they are valid. But here's the thing. It's important to remember why streaming even came about. It was to combat piracy. If the services get too fragmented, too expensive, too meager in their offerings, people will go back to pirating. Right now, the reason streaming is a good deal for consumers and the record companies (artists not as much) is that it's so cheap (relative to the amount of money the same amount of music would cost you if you bought album by album or track by track) and so convenient that even pirates who have TB of music on their hard drives are hard pressed not to use it. In terms of recouping lost profits, streaming is the best bet for record companies right now.

This is an excellent point.
 
One point that keeps being made is that without AM, you can't listen to specific songs/albums on demand. That might be true of iTunes Radio, but with my free Spotify account, I can listen to anything in their catalog on demand. My understanding is that a premium account would give me a higher bit rate and the ability to save any tracks for offline play, but I have never had any trouble pulling up a song when I felt like listening to it. Does Spotify work differently in the UK?

I can't speak to the UK, but in the US, the free tier of Spotify gets you this:

Unlimited on demand streaming of lower sound quality on the desktop and iPad (which Spotify counts as a desktop) with ads, both visual ads in the player and audio ads between every few songs
Unlimited shuffle streaming on phones, again with visual and audio ads
Limited skips
No offline play

And on top of that, the record labels have been pushing hard to eliminate Spotify's free tier entirely. I don't know how long the free tier will last.
 
One point that keeps being made is that without AM, you can't listen to specific songs/albums on demand. That might be true of iTunes Radio, but with my free Spotify account, I can listen to anything in their catalog on demand. My understanding is that a premium account would give me a higher bit rate and the ability to save any tracks for offline play, but I have never had any trouble pulling up a song when I felt like listening to it. Does Spotify work differently in the UK?

I can't speak to the UK, but in the US, the free tier of Spotify gets you this:

Unlimited on demand streaming of lower sound quality on the desktop and iPad (which Spotify counts as a desktop) with ads, both visual ads in the player and audio ads between every few songs
Unlimited shuffle streaming on phones, again with visual and audio ads
Limited skips
No offline play

And on top of that, the record labels have been pushing hard to eliminate Spotify's free tier entirely. I don't know how long the free tier will last.

In the UK, free means you get adverts, limited skips, no offline. you cannot play anything on demand, it's shuffle only for playlists, albums and artists. The US is meant to be the same, at least according to the website....

Edit" basically the same as @Supermallet said for the US.
 
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While I agree entirely with this post by boltjames, I think both the idea that Apple Music should cost $3 per month and the idea that 3% of iTunes users will sign in need some serious data-based backing. I probably wrote this already but I will again: as a musician I earn the same amount of money from selling ONE album on iTunes as I do from a thousand streams at current 0.007$ price offered by Spotify. Apple pays $0.002 per stream during free trial and $0.0072 afterwards. $3 per month would reduce the payment to 0.00216$ per stream. Which means in order to earn the same from streaming as I do from ONE sale I would have to have my songs streamed 3,216 times. One sale, one person. Let's say my hypothetical album has ten tracks. How many albums that you own have you listened to 322 times?

I'd also like to thank the person that wrote about Tame Impala, I got curious and streamed the album twice, therefore Tame Impala's record label earned 0.026$ from me. I will probably stream it a few more times, it's a very good record, so they have a chance to make ten cents from me. As opposed to seven euros = 7.59$ for a sale.

Labels are screwed by streaming. But they're screwed worse by illegal downloads. If I download the album illegally, they will make $0 from me. Of course it's better to make $0.10 than $0.00. But what Apple and the labels are desperately trying to do is find the sweet spot between "yay I get all this for free" and "wha? I'm not paying that much!".

Spotify are making a huge loss year to year. I wonder if Apple Music will be able to make a profit. I've re-enabled it after switching off because I was wondering if the For You playlists will get any better, but it seems like AM decided I only like Michael and Janet Jackson and nothing else. Once the trial ends, I'll be going back to Spotify – unless AM comes up with the wow factor that's been mentioned. It's handy that it integrates with iTunes, but the way iCloud works now there's no way I am going to give it a go, which means I can't download anything for offline listening. Scrambling my library is not the wow factor. If I want my metadata messed with I can do it myself. So, yeah, Cue & Co., work harder.
 
Well, I don't know if the US is meant to be the same, but I am definitely able to play both songs and entire albums on demand, at least on the desktop and iPad (strangely, I haven't even tried on the iPhone yet). Doesn't surprise me that record companies would push to eliminate a free tier that includes on demand. I had only been a Pandora user until a couple of months ago and was shocked that Spotify offered me the ability to pull songs on demand.
 
In the UK, free means you get adverts, limited skips, no offline. you cannot play anything on demand, it's shuffle only for playlists, albums and artists. The US is meant to be the same, at least according to the website....

Edit" basically the same as @Supermallet said for the US.

The confusion stems from the fact that desktops and iPads retain the on-demand streaming, even though it's not listed on Spotify's main page as a free feature. So you CAN get on demand streaming for free with Spotify, but you're limited in its scope.
 
Labels are screwed by streaming. But they're screwed worse by illegal downloads. If I download the album illegally, they will make $0 from me. Of course it's better to make $0.10 than $0.00. But what Apple and the labels are desperately trying to do is find the sweet spot between "yay I get all this for free" and "wha? I'm not paying that much!".

Spotify are making a huge loss year to year. I wonder if Apple Music will be able to make a profit. I've re-enabled it after switching off because I was wondering if the For You playlists will get any better, but it seems like AM decided I only like Michael and Janet Jackson and nothing else. Once the trial ends, I'll be going back to Spotify – unless AM comes up with the wow factor that's been mentioned. It's handy that it integrates with iTunes, but the way iCloud works now there's no way I am going to give it a go, which means I can't download anything for offline listening. Scrambling my library is not the wow factor. If I want my metadata messed with I can do it myself. So, yeah, Cue & Co., work harder.

I've seen a massive improvement on the 'For You' tab, I actively favorite songs, artists, playlists as I go, whilst rejecting suggestions, since that's what Apple intended, which is why I think I'm getting better suggestions.

Streaming has brought in alot of the illegal downloaders from the cold. I know tons of people that have ditched illegal downloads for streaming.

The confusion stems from the fact that desktops and iPads retain the on-demand streaming, even though it's not listed on Spotify's main page as a free feature. So you CAN get on demand streaming for free with Spotify, but you're limited in its scope.

Hmmm, so basically, it's a glitch from when you've tried a premium trial? I wouldn't be surprised if they fix this soon then.
 
The confusion stems from the fact that desktops and iPads retain the on-demand streaming, even though it's not listed on Spotify's main page as a free feature. So you CAN get on demand streaming for free with Spotify, but you're limited in its scope.

Right, so it's more difficult to take it on the go for in the car listening (unless you travel with an iPad). However, the ability to access on demand streaming from the free tier of Spotify seems to bolster BJ's claim that the biggest upside to AM is offline listening and not music discovery. Whether that feature remains for much longer is another story.
 
I keep on favouriting artists and albums too, but it doesn't seem to have much of an effect. Today's three picks are two playlists featuring Janet Jackson and "Intro to The Jackson 5". Honestly, I like Michael and Janet but not THAT much...
 
Streaming has brought in alot of the illegal downloaders from the cold. I know tons of people that have ditched illegal downloads for streaming.



Hmmm, so basically, it's a glitch from when you've tried a premium trial? I wouldn't be surprised if they fix this soon then.

I've never tried a premium trial. Just signed up for the free tier. Also, I know that I didn't accidentally sign up for a free premium trial because from the first time I used it, whenever I sign in, it asks me if I want to upgrade to premium.
 
It's not a glitch in Spotify, it's a regular offering that they make. They don't heavily advertise it though, for obvious reasons.
 
I keep on favouriting artists and albums too, but it doesn't seem to have much of an effect. Today's three picks are two playlists featuring Janet Jackson and "Intro to The Jackson 5". Honestly, I like Michael and Janet but not THAT much...

I've been doing it solidly since launch, I also did the bubbles thing when I signed up. I rarely get 'intro to' for artists I already have, just 'Deeper Cuts', 'Inspired this artist' and 'B Sides', along with other mixed artist playlists on themes, genres, etc, with some 'Intro to' for new artists I've liked on discovery.

I've never tried a premium trial. Just signed up for the free tier. Also, I know that I didn't accidentally sign up for a free premium trial because from the first time I used it, whenever I sign in, it asks me if I want to upgrade to premium.

Hmmm, well I think it's a happy accident, it's not an advertised feature, so no doubt, that will get killed once someone realises. Hell, if the record labels find out, that's going to be the killing blow to the free tier for Spotify.
 
What about the person that never buys albums? I can't remember that last time I purchased an entire album. I normally find the song I want and download it; doesn't that make Apple Music a lesser value?
 
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It probably just means that AM might not be for you.

If you were a recluse who only needed to go for a medical checkup twice a year, you might just get a taxi because it wouldn't be wiorth you buying a car.

But that wouldn't mean that Ford were ripping people off for charging $10,000 for a car, or that they should start selling cars for the same price as a couple of taxi fares.
 
What about the person that never buys albums? I can't remember that last time I purchased an entire album. I normally find the song I want and download it; doesn't that make Apple Music a lesser value?

Depends, do you buy more than 10 tracks in a month? If so, Apple Music may be of value to you.

If you only buy a few tracks a year and don't want to listen to much outside of those tracks, then no.

Again, the argument here isn't "Streaming is a bad value for everyone" versus "Streaming is a good value for everyone," it's "Streaming is a bad value for everyone" versus "Streaming is a good value for some and a bad value for others." The only people making absolute claims are the people saying no one should stream.
 
Time will tell, but I suspect it might be more than 3%. Which already is double your earlier figure of 1.5%. By way of comparison, the % of Spotify's user base is much higher then 3% - more like 25% +.

Either way, I still don't see what your point is - perhaps if they sold MacBooks for $100 they would sell more of those too.

For pretty much as long as Apple has been in existence its been about single digit opportunities. Didn't Jobs talk about getting 1% of the mobile phone market with the iPhone?

Hasn't the Mac almost always been a single digit proportion of the PC market?

With the MacBook and the iPhone Apple created new markets. With Apple Music, they are mimicking one.

I know they had to compete with Spotify, avoid the threat of some mythical streaming trend, but did they have to release something so pedestrian?

BJ
 
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Oh, so my view is based on a lack of understanding? Presumably because I'm not smart enough to understand?

No-one is saying its an "earth shattering service that's a breakthrough for all mankind". In fact, people have been very clear in saying that it simply is what it is - a streaming subscription service that will likely suit people interested in music enough to hear as few as around 15 albums a year.

How on earth does that put someone in the top 1% extreme of hardcore music fans?

Assuming 12 tracks per album, that's 180 tracks a year.

So it would take this mythical "hardcore music junkie" nearly 140 years to amass your 25,000 song library.

Going by your own numbers you seem to be tripping over your own arguments again.

I imagine there are people with libraries far bigger than yours - perhaps a 55 year old has a library of 50,000 songs, which took 40 years to amass.

That would be 1250 tracks, or around 100 albums, a year.

So this notion you have that a mere 12-15 albums a year makes them a "hardcore music junkie" in the top 1% seems completely wrong.

You're big mistake seems to be including everyone who spends £0.00 on music which is massively skewing your figures.

Plus you still miss the point that a streaming subscription lets you listen to stuff that you probably wouldn't actually buy.

While not 70 my musical interests span close to 70 years. Sure some people have very narrow single genre musical interests but they are not the norm. It's amazing how many songs I come across every day to add to my AM library which I like but never bought. I don't even consider myself anywhere close to a hardcore music listener.

One thing for sure is in October AM will be the largest music subscription service on earth.
 
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Regarding your 25,000 song library - can I ask how many years that took to amass?

And if I'm in the top 1% of "hardcore music junkies" with my 15-30 albums a year, which would take me up to 140 years to reach 25,000 songs, where does that put you on the scale of hardcore music junkies?

Remember half his library came from "friends" and the rest from unknown sources. Still not convinced he has spent $120 total on his music library and that is why he is so rankled.
 
Agreed. I think it may be as simple as this really:

Under 30: Music isn't a priority the way it was for their parents because they have been raised with so many more entertainment options. Internet, video, gaming, Instagram access to girls, no one is lonely and bored and disconnected in a bedroom in suburbia anymore, no one needs a great album to escape to another world anymore.

Over 30: We have enough music. We've been exposed to so much and own so much we simply don't need any more. We have so many songs from our narrow scope of likeable genre's it takes a lot for us to accept a new band or even a new song each year. We have the luxury of being picky.

Speaking for myself, I have too much music. I can't listen to it all. I've taken my 25,000 songs and curated 250 playlists for each mood or environment, about 100 songs on each. That's 2,500 songs representing the very best of the best of my musical tastes. That's 12,500 minutes of music. I commute by car 120 minutes a day or 600 minutes a week. After sports radio, news radio, phone calls, I probably listen to 500 minutes of music per week. My curated playlists can last me 25 weeks or half a year. So I can go an entire year listening to 'Sargent Pepper' or 'The Joshua Tree' or 'What's Goin' On' or 'Out Of The Blue' or 'Nevermind' only twice each and have enough musical diversity and satisfaction to not feel like I'm missing out on anything. Like I said, I almost have too much music, this subset of songs is only 10% of what I actually own.

BJ
So you are arguing about the lack of quality music being made these days with people who listen to a much larger variety of music than you do thus have a lot more information and are a lot more informed.

You keep trying to portray yourself as some kind of gatekeeper of quality music when instead you are a get off my lawn with that noise guy who is much less qualified to discuss the merits of various types of music then most of the people posting in this thread.
 
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