What 2019 iMac Did You Order?

[deconstruct60]

Just a thought for you and anyone else looking at this option with the 27": Consider going for the high end model instead. There's a weird almost counter-intuitive price scale at play here when converting the fusion drive to an ssd:
27 base ($1799) + 512 ssd = $2099
27 medium ($1999) + 512 ssd = $2299
27 high end ($2299) + 512 ssd = $2399

As you can see above, simply ticking that 512gb ssd option drops the price gap between the base model and the highest one to only $300. What do you get in return:

The base and medium have a 32GB SSD. The high has a 128GB SSD (because coupled to a 2TB HDD and the already probably 'too small' 32GB for 1TB is almost certainly in the "too small" at that point. ). It is a 4x bigger SSD, so get a bigger 'credit' too apply to the 512GBSSD cost. Basically it is about $100 for the 128GB and $100 for the 2TB HDD which shaves the jump down to $100 ( instead of $300). Apple BTO math the 2TB HDD is worth $100 more than the 1TB HDD.

Apple's hyper SSD $/GB pricing somewhat bites them in the butt here (appears that way). The 'credit' for the 128GB is much higher which passes in a discount. I highly doubt they mind much. There is lots of margin padding slop in any of the highest end configurations. You just spend $300 more from basic to high on those right hand sized above.

a.) a much faster cpu (while still an i5, the high end standard cpu is a 9th gen vs the 8th gen in the other models)
b.) a much faster gpu
c.) more vram

It costs more and you get more. Also paid over $300 for a 512GB SSD too though. If your workload involves modifying lots of files though the SSD is probably worth it as it is a better match to APFS.

 

[deconstruct60]

... She is taking editing classes, learning Avid Media Composer on Macs. Her area of interest is editing. Probable purchase:
....
*for budgetary reasons choosing 580x over Vega 48. Am assuming that it will be ok, as the 580 2 days ago was a GPU of choice for maxing out the 27". Going with the Vega would necessitate dropping to the 512 SSD. Thoughts?

If it isn't a secret/surprise, I'd try to find out just how large these film projects are gong to be. 512 SSD is fine if are primarily going to host the video on an external drive. ( external drive could be used in a sneaker net context also to move between systems if reasonable sized. ). Trading off the SSD for the Vega48 isn't only trading for a better GPU it is also less space. If there are already external drives in play then there is no increase in total system cost. However, if need that 512GB (or more) space back then that's a net total increase.

If it is relatively high res video being edited and many minutes/hours collectively over various projects then the storage space can get quite high. If small clips and/or not so high resolution then it is less of an issue.

Media Composer can only use the GPU for some of the work. (getting better coverage over time but the impact is a narrow area. ). Vega48 probably would do a much better job. ( and if clocked around the same (or a bit lower), it will use less power than the older 580/480 baseline tech.).
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I think you should check Avid system requirements. here what it reads:
...
You should really think like this: you can always add an external drive, but the video card can never be upgraded. Once you made the purchase this is it. Best of luck to your daughter.

Can't be changed, but it can be augmented. An eGPU augment later would be a more expensive path, but not 100% stuck either. Media Composer doesn't cleanly leverage and additional GPU ( would need to change primary monitor to be connected to the new GPU but that is mainly Composer driving that. Other editors don't have that 'problem'. )

 

[Digeeedad]

If it isn't a secret/surprise, I'd try to find out just how large these film projects are gong to be. 512 SSD is fine if are primarily going to host the video on an external drive. ( external drive could be used in a sneaker net context also to move between systems if reasonable sized. ). Trading off the SSD for the Vega48 isn't only trading for a better GPU it is also less space. If there are already external drives in play then there is no increase in total system cost. However, if need that 512GB (or more) space back then that's a net total increase.

If it is relatively high res video being edited and many minutes/hours collectively over various projects then the storage space can get quite high. If small clips and/or not so high resolution then it is less of an issue.

Media Composer can only use the GPU for some of the work. (getting better coverage over time but the impact is a narrow area. ). Vega48 probably would do a much better job. ( and if clocked around the same (or a bit lower), it will use less power than the older 580/480 baseline tech.).
[doublepost=1553146374][/doublepost]

Can't be changed, but it can be augmented. An eGPU augment later would be a more expensive path, but not 100% stuck either. Media Composer doesn't cleanly leverage and additional GPU ( would need to change primary monitor to be connected to the new GPU but that is mainly Composer driving that. Other editors don't have that 'problem'. )

Thanks for the reply and great info! The computer will be a surprise gift to her though. She will be taking more editing classes in future semesters as well and having a home computer to "practice" and learn will be great.

 

[russofris]

I went with:

* 27" base model
* Upgrade to 512MB SSD because I'm not an imbecile.
* Magic key with Numpad because I need numpad.

Will order 3rd party 32GB Ram kit ($210) and another 4TB drive for my NAS.

Happy to avoid i7's and the security implications of HT.
Sad that there's no T2 Co-proc
Would have loved to have gone to a Vega if not for the $1000 bundle scam.
Sad no 10 Gig Ethernet

 

[macduke]

You should really think like this: you can always add an external drive, but the video card can never be upgraded. Once you made the purchase this is it. Best of luck to your daughter.

Thanks for the great and informative reply!

Yeah, that guy is wrong. You can always add eGPUs. The cost of enclosures is coming down and you can add your own card without having to get a big expensive kit from Apple. But it will still be fairly expensive. The Vega 48 should be like it’s siblings and better at compute since it’s more of a workstation class GPU, so if you think she would benefit from that immediately, it could be a good call to get it. We just don’t have benchmarks on it yet to see how it compares across the various lines.

 

[jerwin]

The 9th generation i7 cpus don't have hyperthreading. You'll need an 9th generation i9 for that.

But Apple doesn't offer the 9th generation i7. It sells an 8th generation i7, for the 21 inch imacs. And that still has hyperthreading.

 

[jcwacky]

It's about time I upgraded my maxed out 2012 27".

Thinking:

• 3.7 i5
• 512GB SSD (Will add a d2 6TB Thunderbolt drive)
• 580X

But now thinking I can afford one more upgrade if I sell my old iMac, so do I either:

1. Pay £360 to upgrade 3.7 i5 to the 3.6 i9
2. Pay £360 to upgrade the 512GB SSD to 1TB SSD (for more breathing room for the essentials)
3. Pay £405 to upgrade the 580X to the Vega?

Leaning towards #1, the i9 upgrade. I'm a web developer and don't really play games on it.
Maybe the i5 is fine? Thoughts?

 

[apocalyarts]

As a web developer you are actually fine with i5. Never had any issues on my MBP.

I'd actually consider the 1TB SSD if you do A LOT. I use VirtualBox and Vagrant for my Dev Environment and the images sure take some space. Depending on how many different projects you have you might need more space. I haven't yet made the jump over to Docker, so I don't know how much space I would need with Docker containers.

On a side note: I actually did not know that Apple reduced the SSD part of their fusion drive so I obviously cancelled my iMac order and repurchased with an 256GB SSD. Thank god that thing wasn't preparing for shipment already

 

[jcwacky]

As a web developer you are actually fine with i5. Never had any issues on my MBP.

Thanks, that's helpful.

I'd actually consider the 1TB SSD if you do A LOT. I use VirtualBox and Vagrant for my Dev Environment and the images sure take some space. Depending on how many different projects you have you might need more space. I haven't yet made the jump over to Docker, so I don't know how much space I would need with Docker containers.

Yeh, currently have a 3TB Fusion, using 2.5TB. So will need to add external storage anyway if going just SSD.

 

[quagmire]

Order still says in progress, but my credit card just got charged. Hurry up and get here.

 

[Ploki]

Has anyone confirmed the speed of the HDD? I've seen lots of griping about Apple and their slow 5400rpm drives, but a quick check of my 2012 iMac shows that the internal drive is 7200rpm — however, this is a disk Apple replaced 4-5 months ago.

tbh difference between 5400 and 7200 is so negligible it's often negated by going with a larger size.
i.e.: 5400 rpm 2TB drive will be faster than 7200rpm.

Going with 8core/32/vega and hampering it with a fusion drive - this concept eludes me.

 

[tomscott1988]

Yeah, that guy is wrong. You can always add eGPUs. The cost of enclosures is coming down and you can add your own card without having to get a big expensive kit from Apple. But it will still be fairly expensive. The Vega 48 should be like it’s siblings and better at compute since it’s more of a workstation class GPU, so if you think she would benefit from that immediately, it could be a good call to get it. We just don’t have benchmarks on it yet to see how it compares across the various lines.

You can but it cant currently accelerate the internal display and you have another bottleneck with data traveling up and then back through one cable. External displays then ye fine but one of the main features of the iMac is the screen...

 

[SkiHound2]

Just a thought for you and anyone else looking at this option with the 27": Consider going for the high end model instead. There's a weird almost counter-intuitive price scale at play here when converting the fusion drive to an ssd:
27 base ($1799) + 512 ssd = $2099
27 medium ($1999) + 512 ssd = $2299
27 high end ($2299) + 512 ssd = $2399

As you can see above, simply ticking that 512gb ssd option drops the price gap between the base model and the highest one to only $300. What do you get in return:
a.) a much faster cpu (while still an i5, the high end standard cpu is a 9th gen vs the 8th gen in the other models)
b.) a much faster gpu
c.) more vram

I'm leaning heavily towards this option myself even though I'm in the same boat where the base model is plenty enough for my needs. Out of any possible option you could spec these with, that extra $300 is the best bang for the buck.

I think that, at least in terms of performance, the lower and middle tier 27" iMacs are poor values compared to the highest tier. As soon as you upgrade storage beyond the 1TB Fusion (which as far as I know still only has the 32gb SSD) the price differences shrink. I looked at the configurations simply because I figure the performance is likely adequate for my needs and I assume they will be much better in terms of any heat issues. But when configured with an SSD the savings just don't feel very meaningful. Indeed, with an SSD the middle tier model comes within just a few dollars of the highest tier.

 

[SinbadtheSailor]

I’m waiting for a tear down before ordering. I’m after the i9 and vega but I have a few concerns and over the heat and potential throttling of this combo. I also want to see how much solid state storage is incorporated into the fusion drive. If it is a small amount I may go for the 1TB SSD. This is to replace a late 2012 that’s done 7 years of good service and I want the new iMac to provide something similar. Once a few reviews are out I’ll probably pull the trigger on my already full basket.

 

[macduke]

You can but it cant currently accelerate the internal display…

According to Apple, you're wrong too: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544

• Pro apps and 3D games that accelerate the built-in display of iMac, iMac Pro, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro (This capability must be enabled by the app's developer.)

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The 9th generation i7 cpus don't have hyperthreading. You'll need an 9th generation i9 for that.

But Apple doesn't offer the 9th generation i7. It sells an 8th generation i7, for the 21 inch imacs. And that still has hyperthreading.

Interesting, I hadn't noticed this before. I would have gone with an i7 if it was available without even checking to see if it supported hyper threading and then would have been disappointed. Intel's product line is all over the place. What a mess. Glad I got the i9! So the only difference with the i7 now is the extra L3 cache? Doesn't really seem worth it. It made more sense like this:

• i3: Low core count
• i5: Mid core count, turbo
• i7: Mid core count, turbo, hyper threading, more cache
• i9: High core count, turbo, hyper threading, even more cache, fastest turbo speed

I also hadn't noticed that the new chips are soldered. This should lead to better heat dissipation!

 

[JohanCruyff]

My 2007 24" Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz, with a HD->SSD replacement is still working, except for the DVD reader, but will likely be replaced by a new 2019 iMac:

• 27"
• i5 9th generation 3.7-4.6Ghz
• 8GB RAM (DIY upgradable)
• 512GB SSD
• (Italian) Magic Keyboard with numeric keypad
• 2.869 euros in Italy (VAT included), but I have to check if I can save a bit thanks to my son's status (University Student)

It will be used for general purposes + photo editing, and I expect it to be OK even if in the next years I'll have to post-process RAW files of, say, 50-60 MPixels.

 

[Jimmdean]

Just a thought for you and anyone else looking at this option with the 27": Consider going for the high end model instead. There's a weird almost counter-intuitive price scale at play here when converting the fusion drive to an ssd:
27 base ($1799) + 512 ssd = $2099
27 medium ($1999) + 512 ssd = $2299
27 high end ($2299) + 512 ssd = $2399

As you can see above, simply ticking that 512gb ssd option drops the price gap between the base model and the highest one to only $300. What do you get in return:
a.) a much faster cpu (while still an i5, the high end standard cpu is a 9th gen vs the 8th gen in the other models)
b.) a much faster gpu
c.) more vram

I'm leaning heavily towards this option myself even though I'm in the same boat where the base model is plenty enough for my needs. Out of any possible option you could spec these with, that extra $300 is the best bang for the buck.

for Education customers the difference becomes $220 in your scenario - a no-brainer...

 

[luke23]

I have been waiting this update since november, when my good old 2017 first-27-inch iMac died.

I placed my order:

i9
8 RAM (I will upgrade myself, do not know right how much and where to buy tough)
512 SSD
580x
Keyboard w/ numeric (Can’t understand why they don’t offer black keyboard if it is available to buy separately. Well, the *buy* thing is key I guees)

I am getting the 580x just beacuse it is 50€ cheaper than 575x at least in Spain’s web store. I really don’t know why. The 580x is better, right?

However graphic card is not my priority. I am developer, mostly back end (nevertheless this days I do front end quite often) in .NET environment. I know, I know... but we live in strange times... ;-) I will use it as my personal computer but I would try bootcamp Windows in an external SSD drive.

 

[jerwin]

i7: Mid core count, turbo, hyper threading, more cache

perhaps it's best to think of simultaneous threads:

i3: 4
i5: 6
i7: 8
i9: 16 (but still running on 8 cores)

 

[macduke]

My 2007 24" Core 2 Duo 2.4 Ghz, with a HD->SSD replacement is still working, except for the DVD reader, but will likely be replaced by a new 2019 iMac:

• 27"
• i5 9th generation 3.7-4.6Ghz
• 8GB RAM (DIY upgradable)
• 512GB SSD
• (Italian) Magic Keyboard with numeric keypad
• 2.869 euros in Italy (VAT included), but I have to check if I can save a bit thanks to my son's status (University Student)

It will be used for general purposes + photo editing, and I expect it to be OK even if in the next years I'll have to post-process RAW files of, say, 50-60 MPixels.

Wow 2007? My buddy is also upgrading (same spec as me, but 24GB RAM and 1TB SSD) and he is coming from a 2009 iMac and I thought that was old. You're both going to be blown away. I had a 2017 5K iMac at work for about six months before switching jobs and it was amazing.

 

[BigBoy2018]

perhaps it's best to think of simultaneous threads:

i3: 4
i5: 6
i7: 8
i9: 16 (but still running on 8 cores)

I have come to avoid any chip with hyper threading. The speed boost is only about 15% and it seems to generate a lot of extra heat (wear and tear). Just not worth it IMO.

 

[jerwin]

I have come to avoid any chip with hyper threading. The speed boost is only about 15% and it seems to generate a lot of extra heat (wear and tear). Just not worth it IMO.

The Sparc64 XII has 12 cores and 96 threads. But it's probably designed around running Java EE and Oracle databases.

and the Power8 is designed around 8 way multithreading.

The gains of 2-way SMT (Hyperthreading) on Intel processors are still relatively small (10-20%) in many applications. The reason is that threads have to share most of the critical resources such as L1-cache, the instruction TLB, µop cache, and instruction queue. That IBM uses 8-way SMT and still claims to get significant performance gains piqued our interest. Is this just benchmarketing at best or did they actually find a way to make 8-way SMT work?

So either Intel's design approach is way off, or your style of computing doesn't fit in with what server farm customers usually do.

 

[fokmik]

I have come to avoid any chip with hyper threading. The speed boost is only about 15% and it seems to generate a lot of extra heat (wear and tear). Just not worth it IMO.

in this gen the only chip has less heat than the i9, is the base i5 61W ! so take that in consideration, and amd 580X also generates more heat than vega, so bottom line, if you dont want the base 27" imac, you should go with vega+i9

 

[petercw2]

I'm interested in the external drive idea. this was something I used to do way back when, but after I got my '11 27" and hacked a 2TB fusion drive into, I've not used one. In considering moving to a new 2019 model, and the prices of what Apple is asking for a 2TB SSD, I'm wondering the effectiveness and pro/cons of just getting a 512 SSD and then a big external. But having content on different drives, isn't something I've done in a while and while it seems the better solve wondering if I'm missing something.

 

[SkiHound2]

in this gen the only chip has less heat than the i9, is the base i5 61W ! so take that in consideration, and amd 580X also generates more heat than vega, so bottom line, if you dont want the base 27" imac, you should go with vega+i9

Where are you getting you data on heat generation? I've been searching for sources that actually compare the heat from the i5 9600k and i9 9900k. Don't see myself really needing either the i9 or the Vega, but heat issues and fan noise in the the prior i7 iMac concern me. I suspect the 570 or 575 gpus would be fine for my needs but as soon as you upgrade the storage on the lower and middle tier variants the prices get very close to the price of the higher tier. The i5 9600k, RX 580, with SSD seems like the best value for me. And I just found out I have SMART errors on main drive of my 2012 Mini so I'm either going to need to make the upgrade or buy an external SSD to use as a boot drive for my old Mini for a while.