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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,181
47,565
In a coffee shop.
Well, I checked Amazon, and yes, they do have it. A nice audio CD. And, yes, is it any surprise that I have ordered it?

So, @mobilehaathi, I blame you. For drawing my attention to this, knowing that I would be intrigued.

But, it should be delivered after January 5. Anyway, it is always nice to have something to look forward to in early January, a bleak and unforgiving month...
 

mobilehaathi

macrumors G3
Aug 19, 2008
9,368
6,353
The Anthropocene
Well, I checked Amazon, and yes, they do have it. A nice audio CD. And, yes, is it any surprise that I have ordered it?

So, @mobilehaathi, I blame you. For drawing my attention to this, knowing that I would be intrigued.

But, it should be delivered after January 5. Anyway, it is always nice to have something to look forward to in early January, a bleak and unforgiving month...

Ahah, well, I hope you enjoy! A week's delayed gratification? I think you'll like that very much. ;)
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,181
47,565
In a coffee shop.
Ahah, well, I hope you enjoy! A week's delayed gratification? I think you'll like that very much. ;)

Actually, despite my occasional enjoyment of the good things that life has to offer, I am a big fan of the concept of delayed gratification, - well, just see my post elsewhere on a pair of delightful Art Nouveau decanters - and frequently practice this even when I can afford to do otherwise - not least because it allows for heightened anticipation which is a delicious sensation, but is good for the soul, too.

And it heightens one's appreciation and enjoyment, when one finally receives whatever one has ordered or sought. Besides, excessive instant gratification can lead to the frightful experience of the jaded palate, which is tedious to endure, as a by-stander and must be trying too, for the individual in question. Imagine losing the capacity for delayed pleasure, and deferred enjoyment.

Yes, - deferred gratification apart - I think I'll enjoy this CD when it arrives - the selection is fascinating and most attractive sounding. And it gives me something to look forward to receiving in January.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,181
47,565
In a coffee shop.
How about some proto-punk






Well, I have heard of Lou Reed, but not any of the others. Across The Pond, some of our cultural influences - even from the Seventies, were quite different from those you were exposed to in the US.

However, I will admit that not only have I heard of Lou Reed, I even had a few of his albums.
 

lowendlinux

macrumors 603
Sep 24, 2014
5,460
6,788
Germany
Well, I have heard of Lou Reed, but not any of the others. Across The Pond, some of our cultural influences - even from the Seventies, were quite different from those you were exposed to in the US.

However, I will admit that not only have I heard of Lou Reed, I even had a few of his albums.

English proto-punk and US proto-punk sort of happened at the same time but sounded a bit different.

Punk is this:

PSMfist.jpg


It really doesn't differentiate between race or region it's an idea. Think Jack Kerouac and Andy Warhol.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,181
47,565
In a coffee shop.
English proto-punk and US proto-punk sort of happened at the same time but sounded a bit different.

Punk is this:

View attachment 607793

It really doesn't differentiate between race or region it's an idea. Think Jack Kerouac and Andy Warhol.

Sure. Agreed.

But while I know the English punk groups pretty well (and have quite a few of their albums), the US tradition, or interpretation, of this movement is something that is relatively unknown to me.
 

aaronvan

Suspended
Dec 21, 2011
1,350
9,353
República Cascadia
Ah, yes. Yes, of course. Love it.

Actually, it is one of my favourite albums. For that matter, it was one of the very first albums, as an LP - along with Pink Floyd's 'Dark Side Of The Moon' that I actually went out and bought for myself, oh, quite some time ago…..

My first vinyl was a 45 of "The Night Chicago Died" by Paper Lace. First LP was Kiss "Destroyer."
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,181
47,565
In a coffee shop.
My first vinyl was a 45 of "The Night Chicago Died" by Paper Lace. First LP was Kiss "Destroyer."

Always an interesting experience to pay a visit to Memory Lane, and it is fascinating to see - for music obsessed kids - just what memories are etched sharply and enduringly in your memory banks. As teenagers, my brother and I used to buy Beatles albums together, splitting the cost.

Then, our tastes diverged, and we split up the music collection. He decided to follow the blues, while I developed a taste for instrumental music, such as Pink Floyd and Mike Oldfield.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,181
47,565
In a coffee shop.
I'm afraid I couldn't stand the constant first person tense in the book. I think it's the wrong way to write.

Third person, third person (it was written from the perspective, or point of view of the man usually referred to as 'he', as in 'he, Cromwell'), and much of it was also written in a sort of continuous present tense.

Hilary Mantel has defended this approach, arguing that the reader, in effect, was sitting on Cromwell's shoulder and seeing stuff as it happened in real time, as he experienced it, rather than with the luxury of hindsight. As she says, for them the future is unknowable - they don't yet know how things will turn out, - and the present of these events are what they are living through at the time, so the reader lives through the occurring present as it happens.

We cannot know what they don't, during the narrative, although, of course, we do know how things will turn out. We have the knowledge of the future - the characters don't, which bestows a delicious piquancy at times.

Now, I'll readily concede that the first 50 pages of Wolf Hall are the hardest to get through, and, to my mind, Bring Up The Bodies is a better book, the framing, focussing and pacing of the story is exceptionally well done although it helps to have read Wolf hall first.
 

Benjamin Frost

Suspended
May 9, 2015
2,405
5,001
London, England
Third person, third person (it was written from the perspective, or point of view of the man usually referred to as 'he', as in 'he, Cromwell'), and much of it was also written in a sort of continuous present tense.

Hilary Mantel has defended this approach, arguing that the reader, in effect, was sitting on Cromwell's shoulder and seeing stuff as it happened in real time, as he experienced it, rather than with the luxury of hindsight. As she says, for them the future is unknowable - they don't yet know how things will turn out, - and the present of these events are what they are living through at the time, so the reader lives through the occurring present as it happens.

We cannot know what they don't, during the narrative, although, of course, we do know how things will turn out. We have the knowledge of the future - the characters don't, which bestows a delicious piquancy at times.

Now, I'll readily concede that the first 50 pages of Wolf Hall are the hardest to get through, and, to my mind, Bring Up The Bodies is a better book, the framing, focussing and pacing of the story is exceptionally well done although it helps to have read Wolf hall first.

Sorry, I meant the constant present tense; nothing wrong with first person.

I think the reasoning usually given is that it makes you feel as though it's happening and therefore more exciting. But to me, that is patronising to the reader and flawed thinking. When we read a book, we know it is not happening now. We therefore cast our mind into the world, which is why the past tense doesn't matter and also makes sense. I found it intensely irritating reading this constant artificial present tense. It's kind of like reading a film script. If anything, it made it harder for me to feel as though I was there. It's a technique that can be effective in small doses, but used constantly becomes wearying. It was telling to me that some of the most important sentences at the ends of chapters reverted to the past tense, almost like a Freudian slip. It was as though she realised that the present tense simply wasn't powerful enough for the crux moments.

In short, I think Mantel was trying to be trendy and was influenced by modern media like film. She tried to apply that immediacy to the printed word. She's clearly a very intelligent woman, but like many gifted people, has a block in a particular area.
 

997440

Cancelled
Oct 11, 2015
938
664
@Benjamin Frost and @Scepticalscribe

I've not read the books you've spoken of nor can I think of any particular book written mostly or 'entirely' in the present tense that I've enjoyed (or completed). You might find this column of interest.

.....The best writers almost always seem to know, either consciously or intuitively, when to use present tense. Many of us, however, do not. Present tense has become something of a fad, and we often use it even when past tense would serve the story better. Whatever the causes for the prevalence of the present tense in today’s fiction, it is important that we understand its advantages and disadvantages so we can better decide when to employ it.....

The complete guest column by David Jauss -- http://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/the-pros-and-cons-of-writing-a-novel-in-present-tense
 
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