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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
51bY71UBtaL._AC_US160_.jpg

I avoided the initial reviews, so I could go in an appreciate this for what it is. Extremely short by comparison to the later books, with perhaps less character development than I would have liked, still a fun return to a beloved series.

Okay, I succumbed.

This is next up on my reading list.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
I really fell down. It took two days to get through it. In my defense, I had to work, so I only had a few hours a day to give it.

Having finished it for a bit, I think I'd like to see it performed.

Yes, I have read the reviews, and would also like to be able to see it on stage.

While I understand that it is not the same as the books, - as it is is the (working) script for the play (which may yet be further amended) - nevertheless, I am looking forward to curling up comfortably with it later on this evening, beer glass within easy reach of my hand.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Just started The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco.

Part history, part philosophy, part murder mystery. The perfect combination :)

Loved that book, though it does take a while to hit its stride. Great read. The last third is brilliant, and builds superbly on what has gone before.

This was the very first book - the one that created the genre - with the idea of a medieval murder mystery.

However, it differed from all of its successors in that it used the device of a thriller, a murder mystery - to explore, discuss and debate questions of medieval society as well as church and state politics and philosophy, both Christian, and Aristotelian philosophy - very coherently and entirely logically - within the book's framework.

So, it used the framework of a thriller to explore medieval culture - the thriller and murder mystery was the narrative device, but the aim of the book was to really explore medieval culture from a different perspective using the format of a murder mystery.

Most of the successor books - the ones that were written subsequently by other writers mining this genre - are murder mysteries set in the medieval era, which is a very different thing.

Anyway, most unexpectedly, it worked perfectly well both as a challenging philosophical exploration of medieval society - and that of the Catholic Church - and as a gripping and a superbly told and exceptionally well plotted murder mystery.

And - much to the surprise of Umberto Eco - who was an Italian academic with a healthy appetite for the good things in life, and one who cultivated a playfully eclectic approach to learning and scholarship - it because a world wide bestseller.

Most of the books in this genre which followed (the Brother Cadfael stories, - which were excellent - among others, come to mind) told perfectly good murder mysteries - and understood the history (but not the philosophy) exceedingly well.

But The Name Of The Rose worked well on a number of levels.

Was there a movie made?

Yes, there was.

Unusually, (to my mind), it was one of the few occasions that Hollywood didn't massacre a work that I had loved.

Now, the movie didn't handle (didn't even touch upon) the philosophical exploration of the mindset of the medieval world.

Nevertheless, I don't hold that against it; it was faithful to the backbone - the core narrative of the book, and, better still, was also sensitive to the sense of the time, and sought to capture and portray the ethos and flavour of the era. (Among other things, I used to teach European medieval history once upon a time, and so have some sense of this world).

Outside of a spaghetti western, (which I also love), I have rarely seen a more splendidly and gloriously ugly set of actors, and I welcomed this.

I don't think Americans realise that Europeans get really sick of the flawless dental work and perfect physique of many US actors and this is something that is not really terribly credible in a historical work.

Look at some of the contemporary portraits - stunning renditions of the human form and the human face - in the Renaissance section of some European art galleries if you want to get an idea of what people actually looked like then. Most of the portraits painted are not idealised, on the contrary, they are disturbingly and wonderfully realistic, yet respectful - after all, these were patrons being painted, who paid for the work, and so, wouldn't be traduced on the painted page, and that is apart from the self portraits - some of which were searing self examinations on the part of the artist of himself.

Besides, such unnatural physical perfection (as one finds with US actors) - especially when set in a medieval world where death by disease, - not least disfiguring disease - was not at all unusual - not only is unlikely but does not encourage that willing suspension of disbelief without which all theatre (and some movies) cannot be credible.

So, the movie was one of the first Hollywood adaptations that I didn't loathe; in fact, much to my surprise, I thought it extremely good. Sean Connery was - perhaps surprisingly - excellent as William of Baskerville.
 
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0388631

Cancelled
Sep 10, 2009
9,669
10,823
Funny you mention that, @Scepticalscribe I recall and IMDB thread many years back where someone complained about the flawlessness of American beauty compared to other modern cultures. It is rather a vapid outlook when you truly look at it.

I'm going to have to check out Name of the Roses. It looks to be very interesting.
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Funny you mention that, @Scepticalscribe I recall and IMDB thread many years back where someone complained about the flawlessness of American beauty compared to other modern cultures. It is rather a vapid outlook when you truly look at it.

I'm going to have to check out Name of the Roses. It looks to be very interesting.

Oh, a heads-up: The book (and movie) are called 'The Name Of The Rose' not The Name of the Roses.

Anyway, this focus on some narrow notion of physical beauty is one of the many reasons that I cannot abide most US movies.

Now, I 'get' the argument about movies being a form of escapism, but I don't want physical perfection on the screen, - and nothing but physical perfection on the screen- mostly because I cannot believe in the characters. They don't look real - they don't look as though they might be the people whose lives or story they are playing. Most European movies are a lot more credible for this, among many other reasons.

Actually, now that the Olympics are upon us, I recall gritting my teeth at the US team in the 1984 Olympics; all those flawlessly toned physiques, immaculate blond haircuts, and perfect teeth (on the white/Caucasian US competitors.) They exuded smug superiority.

There was some sort of synchronised swimming event and the American team smiled in unison, flashing flawless dental work. Their teeth positively gleamed underwater. I wanted to strangle the lot of them.

Now, for political reasons (pay back for the earlier boycott of the Moscow 1980 Olympics) the USSR weren't present. So, the US team won even more medals than they might otherwise have done.

That was the first time that it struck me how pervasive this cult of physical beauty (with very narrow, demanding standards) is in the US and I was dumbstruck. I longed for the crooked teeth, and realistic facial features of the Europeans, who had fit, muscular bodies - after all, they were professional athletes - but normal looking faces.

But, back on topic, I cannot recommend The Name Of The Rose highly enough.
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
love the film. i've got to read it now. it was on a list i saw recently entitled, "100 must read books".

This book managed to be both a solid work of philosophy, and an excellent thriller. Again, highly recommended.

To my mind, nothing that Umberto Eco wrote subsequently came close to it for hitting that sweet spot where an intelligent, intellectually solid and philosophically erudite work also succeeds totally as a murder mystery, detective story and as a thriller, where characters, context and plot all work exceptionally well too.

In fact, it was both critically acclaimed, and a best seller.

As an academic, straddling the world of accessibility, mass popularity (and extraordinary success) without sacrificing your intellectual integrity - or mastery of your subject - is something achieved by very few.

Among academics at the time, it was a must read.

Actually, I was an undergraduate when it was published, and I recall coffees with my professors where a number of them were gently ribbing, or teasing, one another, "How did you get on with the Latin - how's your Latin?" "A bit rusty, old boy, - it's been a while since I've had to read a bit of Latin but" - (spoken in a tone of emphatic satisfaction) - "I pretty much managed to get the sense of it."

Re the movie, initially, I was as suitably snooty as everyone else in Europe with Christian Slater's American accent (come on; in a medieval monastery?) However, I came to see that his portrayal of the genuinely guileless Adso actually captured that element of Adso's character perfectly, and was something that a European actor might not have been able to portray quite as well.
 
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LizKat

macrumors 604
Aug 5, 2004
6,770
36,283
Catskill Mountains
Well I won’t likely be around to read this offering, nor perhaps will any of us reading the forum today, but it’s certainly a cool idea: A project called Future Library, now officially launched, will be written over the course of a hundred years, while the thousand little pine trees just planted in Norway slowly mature to support its eventual printing.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ler-moon-future-library-norway-katie-paterson

Excerpt from the Guardian piece about the initial contribution, Atwood's "Scribbler Moon":

Sodden with rain and standing amid the calf-high shoots of 1,000 newly planted pine trees in Oslo’s Nordmarka forest, Margaret Atwood is revealing the title of her latest work. “It’s Scribbler Moon,” she says. “And that’s the only part of it you will know for 100 years.”

The Booker prize-winning Canadian novelist is here to deliver the manuscript she has worked on in total secrecy over the past year. The young trees surrounding her will grow to make the paper her work will be printed on in a century’s time. Over the next 100 years, 99 more authors – one a year – will contribute a text to the Future Library, as Scottish conceptual artist Katie Paterson has called her project. Britain’s David Mitchell has just been announced as 2015’s writer. In 2114, the 1,000 trees planted last summer in the Nordmarka will be cut down and all the texts made public.

The piece includes a bit written by Atwood as she handed over her contribution:

“I am sending a manuscript into time,” notes the author, in a short piece written for the event. “Will any human beings be waiting there to receive it? Will there be a ‘Norway’? Will there be a ‘forest’? Will there be a ‘library’? How strange it is to think of my own voice – silent by then for a long time – suddenly being awakened, after 100 years. What is the first thing that voice will say as a not-yet-embodied hand draws it out of its container and opens it to the first page? I picture this encounter – between my text and the so-far nonexistent reader – as being a little like the red-painted handprint I once saw on the wall of a Mexican cave that had been sealed for over three centuries. Who now can decipher its exact meaning? But its general meaning was universal: any human being could read it. It said: ‘Greetings. I was here.’”
Sort of fun that this forward-looking project kicks off with work by Atwood, considering her penchant for the dystopian, but there I guess I'm making some assumptions. She may be quite the optimist after all. :)
 
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Renzatic

Suspended
Right now I am reading "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder" and "The Screwtape Letter".

I have not even marked the 5th hour of my return, and already the temptation to misbehave has beset me. Oh cruel fate, why must you test me so? May I have the strength to bear such indiscretions!

pfftt PFFFTTT FFFTTT PFFFTT PFFFF...errk..PFFRTTTT...FFFRRTT


:)

:walks away:
 

Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
Right now I am reading "Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder" ......

Ah.

The title, of course, made no pretence whatsoever to objectivity, and, as I had never heard of the work, I had to look it up.

I assume that the reason you omitted to mention the name of author was a mere oversight, but it is one that I shall, nevertheless, remedy.

In any case, it appears that not only is the author a well known radio host (of a conservative disposition) but that he has been banned from entering the UK since 2009, apparently for "seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred."

Not sure that this is a source that comes with even a trace of objectivity.

I have not even marked the 5th hour of my return, and already the temptation to misbehave has beset me. Oh cruel fate, why must you test me so? May I have the strength to bear such indiscretions!

pfftt PFFFTTT FFFTTT PFFFTT PFFFF...errk..PFFRTTTT...FFFRRTT


:)

:walks away:

I sympathise with your struggle for self control but must applaud how it is expressed.

Nice impression of Ash (Nostromo science officer)

Isn't it?
 
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ucfgrad93

macrumors Core
Aug 17, 2007
19,579
10,875
Colorado
Ah.

The title, of course, made no pretence whatsoever to objectivity, and, as I had never heard of the work, I had to look it up.

I assume that you omitted to mention the name of author was a mere oversight, but it is one that I shall, nevertheless, remedy.

In any case, it appears that not only is the author a well known radio host (of a conservative disposition) but that he has been banned from entering the UK since 2009, apparently for "seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred."

Not sure that this is a source that comes with even a trace of objectivity.

And yet I still don't know who wrote the book.
 

ibookg409

Suspended
Apr 20, 2016
613
7,556
Portsmouth, NH
Ah.
I assume that you omitted to mention the name of author was a mere oversight, but it is one that I shall, nevertheless, remedy.

In any case, it appears that not only is the author a well known radio host (of a conservative disposition) but that he has been banned from entering the UK since 2009, apparently for "seeking to provoke others to serious criminal acts and fostering hatred."

He was banned in Britain. He sued to get his name off the list during the course of the case an email was unearthed from the Home Secretary Jackie Smith. Michael Savages name was added to the list because virtually the entire list of banned individuals were minorities. His name was added specifically to "balance the list".

Members of the British parliament lobbied to have his name removed since he was added to the list under false pretenses.
[doublepost=1470969501][/doublepost]
your response did elicit a chortle from me, chown. i find myself quite amused by your antics and witticisms
Release the beast!
 

blesscheese

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
698
178
Central CA
I have not even marked the 5th hour of my return, and already the temptation to misbehave has beset me. Oh cruel fate, why must you test me so? May I have the strength to bear such indiscretions!

pfftt PFFFTTT FFFTTT PFFFTT PFFFF...errk..PFFRTTTT...FFFRRTT


:)

:walks away:
Hey! I wiz wonderin' where you were at!
 
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Scepticalscribe

macrumors Haswell
Jul 29, 2008
65,199
47,583
In a coffee shop.
And yet I still don't know who wrote the book.

His name is Michael Savage, and I confess that I had never heard of him - or his book - until this evening.

However, usually, on this thread, individuals will mention what book they are reading and will, more often than not, make reference to the author as well.

I will add that the ban on him entering the UK appears to be well and truly in place.
 

ibookg409

Suspended
Apr 20, 2016
613
7,556
Portsmouth, NH
His name is Michael Savage, and I confess that I had never heard of him - or his book - until this evening.

However, usually, on this thread, individuals will mention what book they are reading and will, more often than not, make reference to the author as well.

I will add that the ban on him entering the UK appears to be well and truly in place.
It's not. He has the 2nd highest rated radio show in America. He was just voted into the national radio hall of fame. There is no way he could be on radio in America if he was advocating violence.

His only crime is exposing the BS of both the left and the right.
 

aaronvan

Suspended
Dec 21, 2011
1,350
9,353
República Cascadia
I have not even marked the 5th hour of my return, and already the temptation to misbehave has beset me. Oh cruel fate, why must you test me so? May I have the strength to bear such indiscretions!

pfftt PFFFTTT FFFTTT PFFFTT PFFFF...errk..PFFRTTTT...FFFRRTT


:)

:walks away:

I hear ya, bro. I just got back from ten days in the gulag.
 
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Renzatic

Suspended
Release the beast!

No. For the sake of everyone here, the beast has been, and must remain cowed. I shall maintain a blissful kind of lethargy, focus upon my inner circle to maintain my spiritual polarity. I have walked the path of selfish indiscretions, as you are now, and it has lead to naught but my exile. I will not make the same mistake again. I will deny my impulses to misbehave, learn from my past, and move forward with my life.

From the crude ashes of my previous self, I will rise anew, and tether my being to a more sanctified, spiritualized whole. When I am again together and whole, I shall experience oneness, and be complete.


On a serious note: the board saved it, Chown! I was able to post it after all! But now the joke's old, and I don't wanna push my luck.

HEY EVERYBODY! :D

[doublepost=1470971774][/doublepost]
I hear ya, bro. I just got back from ten days in the gulag.

Yeah, I think you were a couple of cells down from me. Glad to see you back. :D
 
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